Landlord Disputes

[helicondelta]

I just returned my condo to the landlord and I'm wondering if I'll ever get my 2-month deposit back.

 

The landlord complained about a number of things which to me were just the result of normal wear and tear of the condo.

 

He told me he'll get back to me after someone looks at the unit.

 

What should I expect? He's holding a two month rent deposit and I just saw that a new law came into effect recently that only allows landlords to hold a 1 month rent deposit.

 

Looking forward to any advice. Thanks in advance.

 

[KittenKong]

It is fairly common here for landlords to attempt to trick tenants out of their deposit. Contacting the OCPB may help.

[Chopperboy]

Common as hell.

Try to run the rent down when you are leaving to swap against the deposit - use any kind of excuse.

They can't hold your stuff either as only a court can do that.

[scubascuba3]

Only pay 1 month deposit in future, if they don't like it find another condo

[blackhorse]

Your screwed. Poor old renters keep saying how amazing the crappy thai rentals are right up untill the crappy land lord takes away 2 months deposit...

Own your own condo where ever you are In the world and be master of your own domain!!

[Spidey]

Just now, blackhorse said:

Your screwed. Poor old renters keep saying how amazing the crappy thai rentals are right up untill the crappy land lord takes away 2 months deposit...

Own your own condo where ever you are In the world and be master of your own domain!!

I have rented houses twice in Thailand. First time, Thai owner one month deposit 6500baht. Tried to stiff me for 50% of the deposit because I'd made alterations, all of which were actually necessary improvements. Told her that I would remove all the improvements and that she wouldn't get the keys (I'd previously changed the locks) until my full deposit was returned. Had my full deposit 2 days later.

 

Second time English owner. 2 months deposit, 32k baht. Refused to return my deposit because he said that I had vacated early, thus invalidating the contract. I'd been there 2 1/2 years. I had his address in the UK and told him that I would visit his address in the UK as I was making a short trip in the near future. Also withheld the keys. Agreed for me to stay for the last month for free and return the otrher months deposit on receipt of the keys, which he did.

 

They always try it on. They are trying to dump on you so I have no compunctions about dumping on them. If they get tough with you, get twice as tough with them.

 

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, helicondelta said:

He's holding a two month rent deposit

Looking forward to any advice.

 

Never rent anywhere with more than a 1-month deposit.

Or pay 6 month/1 year in advance with no deposit.

Edited October 14, 2018 by BritManToo

[Sigma6]

the new law only applies to landlords with 5 or more properties....

 

How to check that? yeah, thats the point, so forget about it, unless you can prove they own 5 or more.  Its aimed at apartments mostly, where the building is owned by a single entity.

 

Your idea of normal wear and tear may well differ to your landlords, and he will try to keep your deposit.  contacting the OCPB as suggested above may help, and/or querying whether your landlord declares his rental income, may 'convince' him to return it.

Ive rented 4 places in 12+ years, and 3 gave it back without issue, and 1 (chinese thai) tried to keep it all, but after months of dispute with the agent moderating we settled on half, 26K.

 

Wait to see the outcome of his inspection, nothing else you can do for now......

[baansgr]

10 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Only pay 1 month deposit in future, if they don't like it find another condo

It's hard call,  look at it from the owners point of view.  They rent a studio at 8k a month. Television  is probably worth at least that,  on top of furniture , air con,  possible unpaid utilities  and damage,  is it really fair on them To be put at risk? 

[BritManToo]

23 minutes ago, baansgr said:

It's hard call,  look at it from the owners point of view.  They rent a studio at 8k a month. Television  is probably worth at least that,  on top of furniture , air con,  possible unpaid utilities  and damage,  is it really fair on them To be put at risk? 

All business is risk, if you don't want to take risks as a landlord, rent unfurnished.

I've never had a problem finding places with 1-month deposit.

Edited October 15, 2018 by BritManToo

[scubascuba3]

It's hard call,  look at it from the owners point of view.  They rent a studio at 8k a month. Television  is probably worth at least that,  on top of furniture , air con,  possible unpaid utilities  and damage,  is it really fair on them To be put at risk? 

Yep its fair. By them charging 2 months deposit, the condo may stay empty for longer losing them more money.

 

Charge 1 month and do more checks and or ask for 6 months up front whatever works

 

[kannot]

So if I told you my Wife has done this sort of job for 10 odd years and the vast majority get their  full deposit back I guess no one would believe me, thats dealing with thousands of owners and condos.

Often is the case many  who dont will tell you how they kept the places "immaculate" but the truth is often very VERY different, many I wouldnt put a pig in after theyd  left.

[kannot]

20 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Yep its fair. By them charging 2 months deposit, the condo may stay empty for longer losing them more money.

 

Charge 1 month and do more checks and or ask for 6 months up front whatever works

 

Impossible to check anything in Thailand.

[BritManToo]

18 minutes ago, kannot said:

So if I told you my Wife has done this sort of job for 10 odd years and the vast majority get their  full deposit back I guess no one would believe me, thats dealing with thousands of owners and condos.

Condo rentals I always got my deposit back (big blocks with one owner).

Private house rentals, one I did, one I didn't.

 

IMHO it's best to avoid large deposits in the 'hobby owner' rental market.

 

I may agree with you depending on the market in which your wife works.

If she's renting large apartment blocks as a whole, yes.

If she's renting places where the owner has one or two properties for rent, no.

Edited October 15, 2018 by BritManToo

[scubascuba3]

Impossible to check anything in Thailand.

Check their wealth, ask for them to pay 6-12 months, ask to see their bank balance. If they don't want to then decline them renting

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

33 minutes ago, kannot said:

Impossible to check anything in Thailand.

Check their wealth, ask for them to pay 6-12 months, ask to see their bank balance. If they don't want to then decline them renting

If someone asked me to put 6 months rental up front, I'd be very suspicious of the landlord and decline the offer. Glut of rental properties on the market ATM, bad business practice.

[smutcakes]

13 hours ago, Spidey said:

I have rented houses twice in Thailand. First time, Thai owner one month deposit 6500baht. Tried to stiff me for 50% of the deposit because I'd made alterations, all of which were actually necessary improvements. Told her that I would remove all the improvements and that she wouldn't get the keys (I'd previously changed the locks) until my full deposit was returned. Had my full deposit 2 days later.

 

Second time English owner. 2 months deposit, 32k baht. Refused to return my deposit because he said that I had vacated early, thus invalidating the contract. I'd been there 2 1/2 years. I had his address in the UK and told him that I would visit his address in the UK as I was making a short trip in the near future. Also withheld the keys. Agreed for me to stay for the last month for free and return the otrher months deposit on receipt of the keys, which he did.

 

They always try it on. They are trying to dump on you so I have no compunctions about dumping on them. If they get tough with you, get twice as tough with them.

 

 

In my view in both cases you have breached your contract and the landlord is fully entitled to retain your deposit. In one of them you made unapproved alterations to the property (It is irrelevant if YOU deem them improvements) and in the other case you vacated early breaking your contract. 

[scubascuba3]

If someone asked me to put 6 months rental up front, I'd be very suspicious of the landlord and decline the offer. Glut of rental properties on the market ATM, bad business practice.

If you wanted only 1 month deposit and/or discount then you'd have to budge or go elsewhere which is fine

[kannot]

48 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Condo rentals I always got my deposit back (big blocks with one owner).

Private house rentals, one I did, one I didn't.

 

IMHO it's best to avoid large deposits in the 'hobby owner' rental market.

 

I may agree with you depending on the market in which your wife works.

If she's renting large apartment blocks as a whole, yes.

If she's renting places where the owner has one or two properties for rent, no.

Its generally 1-2  unit owners, so that goes against what you think.

Most get their money back, some owners are total gits and will use anything to keep all of it, she normally  dumps owners like this as its  too much hassle for her, but theses are few and far between. I base this on the sheer  volume of rooms she rents out, must run into thousands.

[Spidey]

6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

29 minutes ago, Spidey said:

If someone asked me to put 6 months rental up front, I'd be very suspicious of the landlord and decline the offer. Glut of rental properties on the market ATM, bad business practice.

If you wanted only 1 month deposit and/or discount then you'd have to budge or go elsewhere which is fine

The last house I rented asked for 2 months deposit. I really wanted the house. After extensive negotiations I agreed to pay the 2 months deposit but with a 20% discount on the rental price.

 

My fears were confirmed when the landlord tried to screw me out of my 2 months deposit on vacating the premises. Luckily, I was bigger and younger than him and my deposit was returned in full.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Spidey

[kannot]

19 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

In my view in both cases you have breached your contract and the landlord is fully entitled to retain your deposit. In one of them you made unapproved alterations to the property (It is irrelevant if YOU deem them improvements) and in the other case you vacated early breaking your contract. 

Yeah hilarious, its like when some re paint a room in something they tell you has  "added value"

The contract is there so both sides know/accept/adjust the rules, then they fail to follow it and get surprised when they lose some or  all of the deposit.

Edited October 15, 2018 by kannot

[kannot]

44 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

1 hour ago, kannot said:

Impossible to check anything in Thailand.

Check their wealth, ask for them to pay 6-12 months, ask to see their bank balance. If they don't want to then decline them renting

its no guarantee of anything, suggest most of the population live month to month, you'd  end up with no renters at all.

Some of the richest people can be the worst tenants ever.

[mentalcolonization]

you're screwed. You would be lucky if the landlord doesn't ask for more money for repairs .

[scubascuba3]

Funny that its never the tenants fault even when they change things and lets be honest some guys DIY isn't going to be good

[kannot]

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The last house I rented asked for 2 months deposit. I really wanted the house. After extensive negotiations I agreed to pay the 2 months deposit but with a 20% discount on the rental price.

 

My fears were confirmed when the landlord tried to screw me out of my 2 months deposit on vacating the premises. Luckily, I was bigger and younger than him and my deposit was returned in full.

What was their reason for keeping it?

[scubascuba3]

its no guarantee of anything, suggest most of the population live month to month, you'd  end up with no renters at all.
Some of the richest people can be the worst tenants ever.

Its no guarantee of course, there are lots of tea leafs out there, but you can only do your best to manage risk. The best thing i do is try to have a good friendly relationship with the tenant at the beginning and if things come up like repairs are needed

[kannot]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

Funny that its never the tenants fault even when they change things and lets be honest some guys DIY isn't going to be good

These are usually the ones who complain the most in 99% of cases if theres no damage deposits get returned, the usual scenario is tenant says got to leave early " can I have back the deposit", when the "No" arrives they follow with " Mum dead/Dad dead/sick" Wife sends them copy of contract they signed,  "by signing this contract i agree to abide by the terms and conditions" etc

They still twaddle on "no fair" etc etc

[scubascuba3]

These are usually the ones who complain the most in 99% of cases if theres no damage deposits get returned, the usual scenario is tenant says got to leave early " can I have back the deposit", when the "No" arrives they follow with " Mum dead/Dad dead/sick" Wife sends them copy of contract they signed,  "by signing this contract i agree to abide by the terms and conditions" etc
They still twaddle on "no fair" etc etc

I agree, I've heard that before people want to end their tenancy early and expect to not pay the remainder due, 2 hopes.

[kannot]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

5 minutes ago, kannot said:

its no guarantee of anything, suggest most of the population live month to month, you'd  end up with no renters at all.
Some of the richest people can be the worst tenants ever.

Its no guarantee of course, there are lots of tea leafs out there, but you can only do your best to manage risk. The best thing i do is try to have a good friendly relationship with the tenant at the beginning and if things come up like repairs are needed

The real difficulty is knowing how that person is and thats the key which is almost impossible to find until after theyve left.

Id say 1-5 tenants are GOOD, 4 are the normal quite dirty dont care for the property etc.

Fortunately I have no involvement except to hear the stories because id  tell em all to F -off after seeing some of the <deleted> they come out with /leave behind.

Many want an immaculate place for peanuts then leave it disgusting after theyve gone. Ive seen way too many photos of the before and afters from Mrs  Kannot.

The last room I went in to  where the guy said he'd " cleaned the room thoroughly" and didnt want to pay the cleaning charge...............sheesh, I stuck to the floor when I walked in it was that filthy, kitchen walls covered in thick cooking fat, microwave never cleaned and "stuck" to the worktop with fat etc etc

[Spidey]

18 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

In my view in both cases you have breached your contract and the landlord is fully entitled to retain your deposit. In one of them you made unapproved alterations to the property (It is irrelevant if YOU deem them improvements) and in the other case you vacated early breaking your contract. 

Do you call sealing a drain cover in the kitchen to prevent finding the kitchen floor covered in cockroaches every morning, an unapproved alteration? Do you call filling all the cracks in the kitchen ceiling/ walls to prevent lizards and ants making the kitchen their abode, an unapproved alteration? Do you call changing a broken toilet seat for a ew good quality seat an unapproved alteration?

 

On the "broken contract" I initially signed a 1 year contract and then, at the landlords request, I signed a second 2 year contract. After many requests for the landlord to do basic repairs/improvements, which fell on deaf ears, we finally decided to buy our own house. 18 months into the contract, we gave the landlord 4 months notice to vacate, leaving 2 months left on a 2 year contract. Contract length is primarily to protect the tenant not the landlord, as the recent changes to the law indicate, and has always been the case in the UK. Also, nowhere in my contract did it say that I would lose my deposit if I vacated early. Both landlords had misused the contract to try to extort money from me which is normal practice in Thailand.

 

They got what they deserved.