US citizens, if you marry a Thai woman, or a woman from any other country really, what are the legal implications at home?

[trademarkedTM]

Is that marriage recognized back in the US?  Are my assets immediately at risk (assuming I live in a state that grants 50% of my assets to a wife), or does some kind of formal marriage paperwork need to be done in the states?  I'm trying to understand if I have any risk for my businesses back in the states if I marry abroad and stay abroad.  Thanks

[ubonjoe]

A marriage here is recognized in the US.

Under Thai law only assets gained after marriage are considered 50/50.

In the states it depends upon your state of residence as to whether assets prior to marriage a subject to the community property law. Also your wife would have to know about the law to claim it on divorce in that state.

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Also your wife would have to know about the law to claim it on divorce in that state.

I heard about lawyers who look for exactly these cases and make a 50/50 deal (or something similar) with the wives.

[trademarkedTM]

Officially, my US state is not a community property state, so as far as I know any assets I have are at risk immediately upon marriage, but at this point I really just maintain a UPS box which is on my US drivers license and my tax returns. 

 

You mentioned that a Thai marriage is recognized in the states.  Is that the same for other countries, like Indonesia, Vietnam?  

 

Let me make sure I understand, in Thailand specifically, all assets gained after marriage are 50/50, correct?  Even if they are assets gained outside Thailand?  

 

Certainly a potential wife would unlikely know the laws, and would have an even harder time figure out what my assets are, but i have a substantial business so I have to take the risk seriously and explore the rules a bit.  

 

I'm not ready to get married, but the topic seems to come up often, and so im just looking for some high level advice, and when things get serious i would of course meet with a credible attorney if I really wanted to make it happen.  

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, trademarkedTM said:

Is that the same for other countries, like Indonesia, Vietnam?  

Yes they are. The US recognize legal marriages from most countries in the world.

Thailand does accept prenup agreements if you are concerned about your assets.

[trademarkedTM]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

Yes they are. The US recognize legal marriages from most countries in the world.

Thailand does accept prenup agreements if you are concerned about your assets.

I don't really trust prenup's, my lawyer friends, granted not family law, say that they are not so solid.  

 

[wwest5829]

Prenup and that addresses the concern.

[inThailand]

Do as they do here, don't get married. Will this paper make for a better relationship? 

[NCC1701A]

why get married? just find a woman you hate and buy her a house.

 

good luck if you live in California.

[Emdog]

I am currently working on getting my Thai wife's name on my US bank accounts. Not easy to do from a distance, doing it to ease the hassles when I check out permanently.

I also have an AXA investment account with her as beneficiary. Talked with my agent on last visit and he said they won't send the money to a foreign bank account on my death, which really gums things up & big incentive for getting her name on my bank accounts. Plus AXA will hit the lump sum with 30% fed tax. I want to start moving that dough in a bit at a time.

[BarnicaleBob]

Ubanjoe's answer is right on.  If you do get legally married and later decide for a divorce, do it in Thailand.  If you divorce in the States, the settlement will be according to the laws of the state you divorce in. 

My suggestion is that if she really hounds you hard about getting married, do a village wedding, all the ceremony and fanfare, toss in some sinsod (dowry) to keep her family happy, but no legal wedding recorded at the Ampher.  Most Thai ladies are happy with such an arrangement, as it gives them the face saving they want with the ceremony.   In such an arrangement you can walk away from the relationship without legal hassle. 

[happysanook]

On 10/23/2018 at 2:53 PM, trademarkedTM said:

Officially, my US state is not a community property state, so as far as I know any assets I have are at risk immediately upon marriage, but at this point I really just maintain a UPS box which is on my US drivers license and my tax returns. 

 

You mentioned that a Thai marriage is recognized in the states.  Is that the same for other countries, like Indonesia, Vietnam?  

 

Let me make sure I understand, in Thailand specifically, all assets gained after marriage are 50/50, correct?  Even if they are assets gained outside Thailand?  

 

Certainly a potential wife would unlikely know the laws, and would have an even harder time figure out what my assets are, but i have a substantial business so I have to take the risk seriously and explore the rules a bit.  

 

I'm not ready to get married, but the topic seems to come up often, and so im just looking for some high level advice, and when things get serious i would of course meet with a credible attorney if I really wanted to make it happen.  

As you mentioned, the Thai wife might not know, but a lawyer would. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread there are lawyers that look and advertise exactly for these types of cases.

 

A prenup made in Thailand might cover you in Thailand, but possibly not in USA.

[connda]

On 10/23/2018 at 3:21 PM, trademarkedTM said:

I don't really trust prenup's, my lawyer friends, granted not family law, say that they are not so solid.  

 

You're over-thinking this way too much.  Relax.

[trademarkedTM]

2 minutes ago, connda said:

You're over-thinking this way too much.  Relax.

No, im not, all my friends are high net worth individuals and share their experiences with me.  It needs to be thought out well.  

[timendres]

Divorce in the States, specifically in my state of Michigan and I believe in most states, requires the plaintiff to demonstrate residence in that state. Thus, if she never lands in the US, or is unable to remain there with a residence for some period of time, she will be unable to initiate the divorce there. As stated above, both a marriage and a divorce here are recognized by the States with the proper filing of documentation.

[sawadeeken]

11 minutes ago, trademarkedTM said:

No, im not, all my friends are high net worth individuals and share their experiences with me.  It needs to be thought out well.  

If you are so overly concerned, then get Legal Advice from a couple Thai attorrnies and maybe a home country attornies...... DON'T 'fully' trust what you have been told on ThaiVisa.Com....... Unless it came from UbonJoe (over past years I have seen his advise be very correct)...... 

I have married 2 Thai ladies in the USA (California) and done Pre Nupitial Aggrements (Prenup) with each and after the Divorce with the 'first one' Just HER KNOWING she had signed the Prenup, she didn't fight the divorce and accepted the bit I gave her willingly...........

You are using your head to consider this when marrying a Thai lady, but in my own experience I have done well with Prenups, I might add that if Prenup is done in English you MUST have an accompaning document from a Thai/English INTREPRATOR that it was explained to HER in her native THAI language for it to hold up in a court............ 

I will suggest to you that it might be smart to profess your love for her by Marrying in a 'simple' Buddhist marriage in the local village (without recording it at the local Umphur - which then makes it legally recognized by other countries) and promise her that if you stay together long then ...... we can do it all legally after a few years of 'knowing each other better'........

I don't know your experience with Thai women, (and it is very important to your future) But after 35 years experience and 2 Thai marriages personally plus Many, Many good marriages of friends ---- I have heard a fair number of very, very, BAD experiences....... Some of the BAD experiences were However their 'own' fault because they used and treated the Thai wifes like Soi-dogs...... NOT as loved-ones --- 'whoring' around with other women while letting the wife sit home alone 'without benefit' of the marriage AND  the Farang husband getting DRUNK and bashing the wife around, like what she already experienced with Thai Men......... The two most common cases...........

In my mind I feel that the largest Percent of thai women will be as good AND better than YOU.......... In a small Percentage of cases the Thai lady will be nothing more than a 'leach' and suck your blood dry......... (the smaller percentage)........

Take some time to 'observe' and 'Know which you are getting............

And Best of LUCK............

[MadMuhammad]

3 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

why get married? just find a woman you hate and buy her a house.

 

good luck if you live in California.

 

1 hour ago, trademarkedTM said:

No, im not, all my friends are high net worth individuals and share their experiences with me.  It needs to be thought out well.  

Move all your assets into a family trust set up. If structured correctly it’s untouchable

[JRinPDX]

You can get a prenup that is valid both in Thailand and in the US., as the first thing that's spelled out is which set of laws apply.  Get copies in both languages, w/certified translation.  Then, you get a Thai lawyer to walk her through the whole thing. (each party should initial each page to indicate they have read and understood.)  Get copies of both lawyers'  licenses, to show they aren't expired.   In defining who gets what, and under what circumstances, there are a lot of potential gotcha's.  Something to consider:  In addition to having a Thai lawyer (There are American lawyers living and licensed in Thailand who do this.), you could also have your U.S. lawyer look it over as well.  If you are older and have assets you need to protect, for your children, for example, it is well worth jumping through all the hoops. 

 

 

[trademarkedTM]

2 hours ago, sawadeeken said:

If you are so overly concerned, then get Legal Advice from a couple Thai attorrnies and maybe a home country attornies...... DON'T 'fully' trust what you have been told on ThaiVisa.Com....... Unless it came from UbonJoe (over past years I have seen his advise be very correct)...... 

I have married 2 Thai ladies in the USA (California) and done Pre Nupitial Aggrements (Prenup) with each and after the Divorce with the 'first one' Just HER KNOWING she had signed the Prenup, she didn't fight the divorce and accepted the bit I gave her willingly...........

You are using your head to consider this when marrying a Thai lady, but in my own experience I have done well with Prenups, I might add that if Prenup is done in English you MUST have an accompaning document from a Thai/English INTREPRATOR that it was explained to HER in her native THAI language for it to hold up in a court............ 

I will suggest to you that it might be smart to profess your love for her by Marrying in a 'simple' Buddhist marriage in the local village (without recording it at the local Umphur - which then makes it legally recognized by other countries) and promise her that if you stay together long then ...... we can do it all legally after a few years of 'knowing each other better'........

I don't know your experience with Thai women, (and it is very important to your future) But after 35 years experience and 2 Thai marriages personally plus Many, Many good marriages of friends ---- I have heard a fair number of very, very, BAD experiences....... Some of the BAD experiences were However their 'own' fault because they used and treated the Thai wifes like Soi-dogs...... NOT as loved-ones --- 'whoring' around with other women while letting the wife sit home alone 'without benefit' of the marriage AND  the Farang husband getting DRUNK and bashing the wife around, like what she already experienced with Thai Men......... The two most common cases...........

In my mind I feel that the largest Percent of thai women will be as good AND better than YOU.......... In a small Percentage of cases the Thai lady will be nothing more than a 'leach' and suck your blood dry......... (the smaller percentage)........

Take some time to 'observe' and 'Know which you are getting............

And Best of LUCK............

Thanks, I am just looking for high level advice now.  I would consult an attorney before any action.  

[trademarkedTM]

1 hour ago, MadMuhammad said:

 

Move all your assets into a family trust set up. If structured correctly it’s untouchable

I've formed many a trust on my own, but it wont hide my assets.  They would still appear on my tax return.  

[trademarkedTM]

3 minutes ago, JRinPDX said:

You can get a prenup that is valid both in Thailand and in the US., as the first thing that's spelled out is which set of laws apply.  Get copies in both languages, w/certified translation.  Then, you get a Thai lawyer to walk her through the whole thing. (each party should initial each page to indicate they have read and understood.)  Get copies of both lawyers'  licenses, to show they aren't expired.   In defining who gets what, and under what circumstances, there are a lot of potential gotcha's.  Something to consider:  In addition to having a Thai lawyer (There are American lawyers living and licensed in Thailand who do this.), you could also have your U.S. lawyer look it over as well.  If you are older and have assets you need to protect, for your children, for example, it is well worth jumping through all the hoops. 

 

 

One of the things I learned the first time I was sued, or maybe it was the second time, was that the law doesnt matter.   Only the judge on that day matters.  Prenups are not solid.  They are breakable.  I would only get married in a country where the marriage is not recognized or enforceable in the US.  

[watcharacters]

 

An international marriage certificate is recognized by all countries that honor that international agreement.   

 

All laws pertaining to it apply including divorce.

[watcharacters]

1 hour ago, MadMuhammad said:

 

Move all your assets into a family trust set up. If structured correctly it’s untouchable

 

 

You certainly  seem to fail  to understand the  ability of a  financial forensic  analysis.

 

Please stop offering bad advice on an international forum.

 

[trademarkedTM]

9 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

An international marriage certificate is recognized by all countries that honor that international agreement.   

 

All laws pertaining to it apply including divorce.

 

Ok thanks, Ill look up what countries have that

[MadMuhammad]

1 hour ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

You certainly  seem to fail  to understand the  ability of a  financial forensic  analysis.

 

Please stop offering bad advice on an international forum.

 

Yeah righto lol

[watcharacters]

1 hour ago, trademarkedTM said:

 

Ok thanks, Ill look up what countries have that

 

 

Yeah.    Who knows you may actually learn something.

[Moon37]

Emdog,  Get them to give you policy page and reference or write  you a letter that they cannot transfer funds to a foreign account. And threaten to move your money (the taxes are never going to disappear).   Also, wrt income dividends on non-Roth IRAs, I just cashed mine all out last Dec (as I started Social Security this Jan) and now the money I moved to Saving is tax clean as I paid an unbelievable amount of tax.  I'm glad I saw this article as I'm engaged now as well and we were thinking about a third each (two daughters and wife) on death.  But I hadn't thought about divorce, and she knows where everything is.  It's my understanding that one has to make out a new will in the US if they marry again.  After my first wife of 26 years wiped out 50% of assets and 50% of my US Military Pension for life (and then up to 55% if I pass before her).    My two daughters (31,34) would not be able to get near that with the will as still written.  My friend suggested that I put everything I could into a Transfer on Death (ToD) or Payable on Death (PoD) accounts.   So,I added my daughters to everything 50/50 and all they have to do is show up at the institution with my death certificate and identification.  You're right that it is difficult to get the bank to work out the signature cards, but you might want to check out this.  I'm definitely going to look at a new will situation and try to match the Thai pre-nup.   Life is Speed, Speed is Life!  Moon

 

[Morty T]

Marriages outside the USA, are not recognized by the US. Woe to the many that married a girl overseas without the proper Visa Finance and then brought her home to the US. Your wife is not a US citizen and won't be treated as one upon arrival.

[Berkshire]

On 10/23/2018 at 2:42 PM, ubonjoe said:

A marriage here is recognized in the US.

Under Thai law only assets gained after marriage are considered 50/50.

In the states it depends upon your state of residence as to whether assets prior to marriage a subject to the community property law. Also your wife would have to know about the law to claim it on divorce in that state.

But if your wife is not American, how can she claim assets that you have in the USA on divorce....assuming she even knows about it?

[connda]

6 hours ago, trademarkedTM said:

No, im not, all my friends are high net worth individuals and share their experiences with me.  It needs to be thought out well.  

<Sigh> I rest my case.