USA income affidavit

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, HappyAndRich said:

Yeah, then you must be able to do the combo too, right?

There is no option to use a combination of income and money in the bank for an extension of stay based upon marriage. It is only possible for retirement extensions.

[blackhorse]

 
You can debate it all you want. If they' re going to do it, they will make a public announcement. Tell then this is just blather. You might get the information you need, about how to put 800K in an account, document it, so if the time comes you are ready.  Beyond that, I have WS game 1 tee'd up and ready. Goodnight

I don't understand. I'm actually agreeing with you. No immigration announcement and no embassy announcements = nothing

[Moonlover]

5 hours ago, Esso49 said:

5 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

do they accept Google maps?

 

5 hours ago, Esso49 said:

They do for an extension based on marriage.

Funny story about that. When doing my last extension, my 1st at Sakon Nakhon, I took two carefully prepared google maps, showing the location of our rural home.

 

They would not accept those and asked for a hand drawn one instead. My wife did it as I'm artistically challenged and can't write Thai of course. That was acceptable.

 

The I/O, when he came to do the house visit got completely lost and went some 10 kls out of his way.

 

 What I find amusing about this is that they all have smart phones nowadays and it's a simple task to pin the location onto google maps and follow the directions.

 

Umm, ok. Well, maybe not this century.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Moonlover

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

So should they work until they die, then - even though they could live well in Thailand (or Cambodia, Vietnam, PI, Latin America) on 40K/mo or less?  There was a study done of hospice-patients about regrets - "Wish they had spent more time working," was not a popular answer.

 

Granted, there is a balance to be had in deciding on such matters - but most GenXers will never have a private-pension - just some savings / investments if they are fortunate - and Social-Security/State-Pension amounts are far below 65K Baht/mo. 

Pulling 800K out of investments to put in a bank-acct is not a welcome option to many of us - so "rotate the money" it is, I suppose. 

 

I wonder how long until there is an automated service offered to handle it all?  They'll have to keep their fees below than the annual "agent fee" (15K to 25K) - which bypasses the financials altogether.

I don't want to derail this Thread by arguing the merits of Thailand's decision to require more than 40k to live here , and I am sure that there are some people that find themselves  in the unfortunate situation of having reached a certain age and not have an income of 65k, I feel bad for them, but we can't expect Thailand to feel bad for them, If there are countries where they could live for 45k they should certainly go there, Apparently Thailand is not one of those countries. 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

No. Dutch embassy requires proof if income.

My proof of income are the annual letters from my pension providers which has worked for the last 9 extensions plus the letter from the embassy but that will be no more.

[Moonlover]

5 hours ago, Wake Up said:

I forgot to mention she also said if I transferred 65 K a month every month  to a thai bank account that she would accept that instead of the 800k in the Thai account. But no more accepted USA embassy verification letters dated after January 1, 2019. 

This is good news. Very good news indeed. Let's hope it spreads like a virus to all offices around the country.

 

Incidentally Wake Up, I actually got a bit of 'heads up' on this from an American whom I used to chew the fat with in Nong Khai.

 

He told me at least 2 years ago that he'd been cautioned by the I/O there that the day would come soon that his affidavit would not be acceptable without proof of income.

 

This is not new. It seems to have brewing up for quite some time.

[garyk]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The thing is, most of the people saying they do not need 65K a month/800K a year  to live here have no health insurance nor the necessary savings to pay for a major health care expense, and when asked about it say they can't afford health insurance.

 

Add in the cost of health insurance or true self-insuring (minimum 1 million readily accessible if using government hospitals only, 3-5 if using private, and able to replenish these amounts when/as used) and most people will find they do in fact need not much less than 65K/month.

 

I think what we actually have is people trying to retro fit the amount of money they have into living here and doing so by omitting any provision for health care. With often catastrophic results sooner or later.

The problem with this is when you get older it is difficult to get good insurance that will cover your conditions. I looked into it. 

And yes I agree 65K is a minimum if you include insurance. 

After I looked into it, it made more sense for me keep a small place in America for emergencies. And keep an extra amount for emergencies, here in Thailand, or where ever I travel.  It has served me very well I might add. I have had to have surgery in Colombia, and many small emergencies here in Thailand. After the emergencies I head back home to get the bulk of my medical done.

 

I hate to say this, I have been here most of 10 years now,  but Thailand is a really bad place to retire IMO. Many other countries offer you their health system coverage after a few years on retirement. At a cost, but never the less it is there.

Thailand is a rather poor place to come for long term retirement for the average joe, like me. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

But do they verify it by contacting the source of the income?

They verify from the documents you hand them, like pension statements etc.

[zzaa09]

5 hours ago, Esso49 said:

They do for an extension based on marriage.

....as is the cash requirement.

B400,000 as opposed to the unnecessary B800,000

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

This is good news. Very good news indeed. Let's hope it spreads like a virus to all offices around the country.

I don't think if can be an indication of anything at this time. It was a response to a question and is from one immigration officer. It certainly is not any indication of a new policy.

It will require something in writing from the Immigration Bureau for it to be done. And that may require a change to a old ministerial order stating proof of income has to come from an embassy.

 

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, garyk said:

hate to say this, I have been here most of 10 years now,  but Thailand is a really bad place to retire IMO. Many other countries offer you their health system coverage after a few years on retirement. At a cost, but never the less it is there.

Thailand is a rather poor place to come for long term retirement for the average joe, like me.

You have a good point- I have a few friends who have retirted in Mexico and after a  certain period- they have been allowed to buy into the Mexican Social Security scheme which provides full health care.  Thailand should really allow this as it puts much needed income into the system

[Jingthing]

I understand that but they will convert to baht on the day of your extension and just about everyone I know in my Australian circle of friends, do not make 40K. 38K from Centrelink is about it. Very few of my friends have a second pension income (the coming generations most likely will but my generation, very few will have until 65) but are cash rich like myself and make up the 65/40K in dividends and shares. They will most likely cry foul if they had to put 800K in a Thai bank but I can tell you, they can more then afford to do so. 
 
If you're earning well more then the 65/40 and the certificate shows this, well good on you but just about all my friends do not make the excess or majority of money in a pension. Mostly it comes for bonds, shares, dividends, rent, and interest and to date, that is how they claim they earn their money on the Income Affidavit or Stat Declaration.  I could show I earn 32K in a pension and 10,000 in interest a month on my Stat Dec but if they for the future want 40K coming in a month in cash, they can forget about it as I only spend 20-30K. It's just crazy if this is going to happen, so I just bought in 400K now and just forget about it now as it is just becoming a pain in the arse dealing with cash all the time and if that 400K figure changes, I just hope to Christ that I have been here long enough to be Grandfathered in such a scheme. Till I see other offices saying the same as what has happened today or we see news on the Amerian Embassy Webpage, not much else can be said but pure speculation. 

Combo method for retirement extensions.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

They verify from the documents you hand them, like pension statements etc.

That is what the UK embassy has been doing. They just look at what you give them and do the proof of income.

[garyk]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

You have a good point- I have a few friends who have retirted in Mexico and after a  certain period- they have been allowed to buy into the Mexican Social Security scheme which provides full health care.  Thailand should really allow this as it puts much needed income into the system

Yea, Thailand is a great place. But, as a retirement destination?

 

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is what the UK embassy has been doing. They just look at what you give them and do the proof of income.

However, the one main difference is that at the UK Embassy there is no Oath given but  at the US Embassy you swear under Oath the veracity of what you have stated. If you lie- your are subject to penalty of perjury- which carries a criminal or civil penalty,

[sfokevin]

I assume Thai Immigration will issue an written statement that will be as clear as mud...

 

For instance what “bank statement” will be accepted to account for a whole year?... Bank books (which I never use) don’t really update to show all transactions if you don’t update them regularly... My Bangkok Bank online bank records only go back 6 month - And the bank will only issue formal bank history statements that are for the last six months... I think you can order a longer period but that requires a request sent to the main accounting in Bangkok and take an undetermined number of days... Will these statement have to be dated within 24 hours of your Immigration appointment to be accepted ?... 

 

One assumes we must start a accounting regime stating Jan 1st...

 

One can can only image the poor souls that walk in with several hundred of ATM stubs :-(...

Edited October 24, 2018 by sfokevin

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

One can can only image the poor souls that walk in with several hundred of ATM stubs :-(...

I can get 65K each month with 2 ATM slips or go into a Thai Bank and get a counter debit- but saving all this to show Imm is a pain in the arse ;  makes more sense to show 3 months foreign bank statement which shows all direct deposits; shows all debit- and those in Thailand are listed and location all backed up by the actual ATM cards and then the ATM slips.  No one is going to be able to forge all these documents especially the ATM Debit card with the last 4 digits of the ATM card marked on the ATM slip and also shown on the bank statement.  

 

What  is even better is an Embassy Letter sworn under Oath then backed by random checks at Immigration.  No Embassy is ever going to call back to the US or any country and try and verify each pension or income source.  Due to Data Protection Laws and Privacy Acts- it is impossible. It's even hard in the US to verify a person is employed.

[Longcut]

51 minutes ago, garyk said:

The problem with this is when you get older it is difficult to get good insurance that will cover your conditions. I looked into it. 

And yes I agree 65K is a minimum if you include insurance. 

After I looked into it, it made more sense for me keep a small place in America for emergencies. And keep an extra amount for emergencies, here in Thailand, or where ever I travel.  It has served me very well I might add. I have had to have surgery in Colombia, and many small emergencies here in Thailand. After the emergencies I head back home to get the bulk of my medical done.

 

I hate to say this, I have been here most of 10 years now,  but Thailand is a really bad place to retire IMO. Many other countries offer you their health system coverage after a few years on retirement. At a cost, but never the less it is there.

Thailand is a rather poor place to come for long term retirement for the average joe, like me. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Philippines is starting to look pretty good right about now. Easier retirement visa and yes, it is actually called a retirement visa. If you have a pension of at least $800.00 a month if single or $1,000.00 a month if accompanied by a spouse and deposit $10,000.00 that may be invested, you get a multi entry visa that is permanent. There may be a rule that you have to leave the country for at least a day every year. That's unclear. Import up to $7,000.00 household goods customs and tax free. 

  Best thing is they speak English and its only 3 1/2 hours from Thailand. They also have a VA hospital if you are a veteran. Tricare is also accepted. If you live there.

 I have until Sept. If the shit hits the fan.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Longcut

[galt67]

1 minute ago, Longcut said:

The Philippines is starting to look pretty good right about now. Easier retirement visa. Yes, it is actually called a retirement visa. If you have a pension of at least $800.00 a month if single or $1,000.00 a month if accompanied by a spouse and deposit $10,000.00 that may be invested you get a multi entry visa that is permanent. There may be a rule that you have to leave the country for at least a day every year. That's unclear. Import up to $7,000.00 household goods customs and tax free. 

  Best thing is they speak English and its only 3 1/2 hours from Thailand.

 I have until Sept. If the shit hits the fan.

2

Having spent time in the PI (Baguio, Angeles, Manila, and Cebu) while the visa regs ARE easier the 'standard of living' is a serious downgrade compared to the LOS, IMO.

 

And the most of the expats I know that have traveled to the PI and Thailand, choose TH.

 

Despite the visa and language issues.

 

 

 

 

[55Jay]

I wonder.... what would a Thai Embassy in another country say and do if the Host Nation asked them to verify the income of a Thai citizen there, beyond a shadow of a doubt.  No oaths.  Not just statements produced by the requester.    Rather, a full on verification by a Thai Embassy employee with the contacts and access necessary to perform such a function.

 

Then do that time consuming process in a reasonable turn around time (1 day), literally on demand whenever some random Thai person rocks up to the Embassy and asks for it. 

 

Verifying a farang's income to a high degree of legal certainty, is an unreasonable, unrealistic ask by Thai Immigration.  Moreover, that kind of effort simply isn't part of a diplomatic staff's core mission. 

 

I have a feeling that Thai Embassy abroad in para 1 above, would dodge the whole thing.  They can't even get their s**t in one sock between themselves, right here in Thailand. 

[Longcut]

1 minute ago, galt67 said:

Having spent time in the PI (Baguio, Angeles, Manila, and Cebu) while the visa regs ARE easier the 'standard of living' is a serious downgrade compared to the LOS, IMO.

 

And the most of the expats I know that have traveled to the PI and Thailand, choose TH.

 

Despite the visa and language issues.

 

 

 

 

I too have lived there. IMO, it all depends on where you choose to live. You are right. It is an adjustment. But, I for one really enjoyed my time there. My wife whom is Thai really enjoys it also. Just so happens we were married in Manila...

[totally thaied up]

4 minutes ago, galt67 said:

Having spent time in the PI (Baguio, Angeles, Manila, and Cebu) while the visa regs ARE easier the 'standard of living' is a serious downgrade compared to the LOS, IMO.

 

And the most of the expats I know that have traveled to the PI and Thailand, choose TH.

 

Despite the visa and language issues.

 

 

 

 

Add Typhoons and Earthquakes. Yes, I lived there (Baguio) and it is a serious downgrade but it is for me with a weakening dollar, in some ways it is cheaper than here and English is much better.

[marcusarelus]

My wife and 10 other Thai women went there for an all expense paid company event.  They all couldn't wait to come back to Thailand.  Were not impressed by anything except the poverty and bad food. 

[galt67]

Just now, totally thaied up said:

Add Typhoons and Earthquakes. Yes, I lived there (Baguio) and it is a serious downgrade but it is for me with a weakening dollar, in some ways it is cheaper than here and English is much better.

 

Good point on 'natural disasters' especially in mid/Northern Luzon. A consistent, annual occurrence.

 

And USD vs PhP at, nearly, a 10 year high. Definitely cheap for US income earners.

 

 

 

 

[garyk]

32 minutes ago, Longcut said:

The Philippines is starting to look pretty good right about now. Easier retirement visa and yes, it is actually called a retirement visa. If you have a pension of at least $800.00 a month if single or $1,000.00 a month if accompanied by a spouse and deposit $10,000.00 that may be invested, you get a multi entry visa that is permanent. There may be a rule that you have to leave the country for at least a day every year. That's unclear. Import up to $7,000.00 household goods customs and tax free. 

  Best thing is they speak English and its only 3 1/2 hours from Thailand. They also have a VA hospital if you are a veteran. Tricare is also accepted. If you live there.

 I have until Sept. If the shit hits the fan.

All these years in Asia and I have never been to the Philippines? I am going to have to check it out. Thanks

[totally thaied up]

1 minute ago, galt67 said:

Good point on 'natural disasters' especially in mid/Northern Luzon. A consistent, annual occurrence.

 

And USD vs PhP at, nearly, a 10 year high. Definitely cheap for US income earners.

 

 

 

 

I was getting 32PhP to the dollar and lived a very good life. Much better compared to now in Thailand. At 38PhP to an AUD, that would pay easily for rent as well with the increase. The main reason I would not live there is natural disasters. I have lived through a major rattle many years ago and after about 40 Typhoons of some sort, it got too much for me. Lucky my Filipino wife did a runner... 

 

Still, Thailand is getting much more expensive now. If the income letters get axed, I can see a certain select move off to the Philippines. It has its benefits if you can understand you are moving to a very poor country.

[garyk]

23 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

Add Typhoons and Earthquakes. Yes, I lived there (Baguio) and it is a serious downgrade but it is for me with a weakening dollar, in some ways it is cheaper than here and English is much better.

It cannot be any worst than the air quality here every year! I have driven threw Malaysia and southern Thailand several times and was chocking to death. 

I've got to check that place out.

Edited October 24, 2018 by garyk

[Geck0]

7 hours ago, Wake Up said:

where you live and what you are doing in Thailand.

You are on retirement visa and she ask you what are you doing in Thailand??!!

[david555]

This can also affect the money spend in Thailand for Thai economy , as example in a case a ret ext foreigner , who has more than enough 800 000 +++ , But is planning to buy a condo , which make him short of a smaller sum and could for now use temporary the combo method until he for next year is again in the safe 800 000 zone , would think twice before risking to buy , on the other hand..., expect some would have to sell their present condo / house (ev.in company form) to forfill the needed 800 000 .

This would both cases make the overflood on real estate even more a bigger  bubble with tumbling prices !

This could also affect other investments /spendings affecting Thai economy 

 

PS : I am was planning to buy a condo I have my eye on , but now , as long I do not know if combo method is still by same old way to prove ….. I wont risk it …..and then I have no problem as more than 3x  the needed 800 000 on Thai  bank , but not anymore  when buying that condo …..sorry sellers …. no pity however for those "Agents "????

[rhodie]

4 hours ago, onera1961 said:

You still need to do one border hop at the end of the first year on an O-A to get the additional year. I am on an O-A visa. I think I will continue border hop every three months (to avoid reporting my addressees and succumb to Thai immigration's police state rules). I will never deposit 800K in a Thai bank. I will get my O-A from USA with police certificate (does not cost me anything) and a health certificate (doctor's charge $175) and visa fee ($200).

If you read my post you will see that I mentioned 1 border hop required for the 2 years.  I do the same as you leaving within 3 months so as not to fall foul of the 90 day reporting for now. Some do not want/have that option.