Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[Ahab]

7 minutes ago, pontious said:

The embassy letters are valid for 6 months. TI has made no announcement of any changes yet so June 2019. They can always ask for back up documents.

My extension is good until the end of August next year. Hopefully this will all be sorted out by then, I have the required income coming in every month.

[marcusarelus]

35 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

They also would have no trouble imagining how many million people could have sent you the SMS.

I think you can view where SMS's are sent from.  Someone with more knowledge might want to answer.

[JimGant]

Quote

...are still in the dark regarding other "proof" of the sources of those deposits (only certain types of income?)

Why is everybody getting hung up on the word "income?" Thai Immigration is only looking for cash of stipulated amounts coming into Thailand and into your Thai bank account. They could care less where that money came from. That's why the 'income letter' route is such a crummy way for Thailand to assess your means for living here, i.e., it doesn't give any indication of how much of that income arrives in Thailand, and it also seemingly excludes other sources of cash, like winning the lottery. [The old US "income" letters said "$x amount from US Gov't and/or other sources." No mention of income. Only a later letter mentioned "income" -- about the same time the disclaimer also appeared, you know, the one that said "the above info, as far as we know, could all be BS."] I can only ponder why later US letters mentioned "income" rather than "x dollars from Gov't or other sources."

 

Nevermind. Just a curiosity.

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

I have mentioned a few times now this topic that a likely extension scenario based upon monthly income would be proof in a Thai passbook account that 65K baht monthly has arrived as an international (FTT) transfer for 12 months or whatever.

I really hope it will not be the case

 

50 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Korat immigration has stated to expats that as long as your bank book show the required amount coming in from abroad each month you are good to go.

A very bad move from them

 

Both cases above are a bad thing for all those who live from investments in Thailand 

 

1 hour ago, merijn said:

Phuket immigration will only accept the affidavit when this is combined with proof of a Government pension. 

What about all those not in age to get a pension ? (50-65?)

[JLCrab]

Just to note, this is from my online Bangkok Bank account with a test transfer from USA of about $100:

31 Oct 2018 11:48    International Transfer  3,145.12 (baht)

 

The passbook entry has the code: FTT

 

  

[Thaidream]

Actually the Thai Imm website states evidence of income.  

 

In the past- there has never been any mention of where the income comes from- if one is retired it is 65K per month or if using the married  way- 40K per month.

 

One can have offshore sources and one can have onshore legal sources. Many ways to prove it

 

-On shore and offshore deposits monthly

-Thai Tax returns/foreign tax returns

-On shore Bank accounts and offshore bank accounts

-Income from rental units- foreign and Thai.

-Income from investments/stock markets- foreign and Thai

-Income from Pensions- government and private

 

How do you get it into the country-

 

-Bank Transfer

-Thai ATM using foreign debit cards

-Travelers Checks

-Cash- declaring amounts with Thai customs.

 

The question becomes- does Thai Imm care about the source of the income or just that one has the income and doesn't care about the source.   They don't care about the source of the 800K  full deposit so why would they care about the source of the 65K per month?

 

To me- if one can prove they have an income stream of 65K per month by any means- it should be acceptable . Otherwise- one who has no income stream and has no  real money can manipulate the system by simply rotating money in and out or borrowing the funds for 2-3 months as show money. the whole purpose of getting rid of the Embassy Letter was to get 'real' proof, was it not?  

 

It is obvious- no final decision has been made by Thai Imm because we have a few reports that show different interpretations by different  Thai Imm offices. If we use Phuket as an example- they apparently are saying the only income stream can be Government/military pensions. Why?-  And already other  offices have different ideas.  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think Phuket Immigration is likely to be a bad barometer for where things are heading, since AFAIK they've always had their own peculiarities there that don't necessarily match with what Immigration HQ says/does.

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[bkk6060]

36 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Just to note, this is from my online Bangkok Bank account with a test transfer from USA of about $100:

31 Oct 2018 11:48    International Transfer  3,145.12 (baht)

 

The passbook entry has the code: FTT

 

  

OK.

What's your point? 

[merijn]

35 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I think Phuket Immigration is likely to be a bad barometer for where things are heading, since AFAIK they've always had their own peculiarities there that don't necessarily match with what Immigration HQ says/does.

 

I tend to agree as Phuket immigration is (always) very strict in enforcing and making up their own rules.

Lets hope this is not a sign for the future.

[JLCrab]

21 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

OK.

What's your point? 

I thought Thaidream was "Just Kidding" when he said that he was going to bring his accountant along with him to Immigration.

[sqwakvfr]

Integrity Legal in Bangkok just posted a YouTube video where the attorney(the pudgy guy) recommends Americans who encounter difficulty with extending their Retirement Visa go back to the US and obtain a Non-immigrant O-A.  I thought about this because I obtained the O-A in the past.  But I suspect the requirement for the O-A would change to stay in line with the changes coming for extensions in Thailand.  The Thai Consulate I went to accepted a letter from my pension board with no questions asked.  Also, the 800K Baht requirement can be in a American bank.  Would a newly arrived American who arrives in Thailand on the O-A then be required to open a Thai Bank Account.  

[zydeco]

17 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Its pretty clear they want less and less westerners in Thailand...If they wanted more westerners there would not be a new visa crackdown about every 12 to 18 months sense 2010.....

If so, then Thai Immigration should start with the issuance of new visas, including Non-B.  That is the easiest way to cut down on incoming Westerners.  

[zydeco]

5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

And now Australia joins the party. Welcome mates! 

 

 

 

Good to see that every country is now getting its own topic thread.

[Mike Teavee]

46 minutes ago, zydeco said:

If so, then Thai Immigration should start with the issuance of new visas, including Non-B.  That is the easiest way to cut down on incoming Westerners.  

Why would they do that if they suspect there are people staying here who do not have the required levels of funds/income they want to see?

 

Besides, Thai Immigration don’t issue the visas so would have no control over what amounts people have:prove. E.G Savannakhet will give you a Non-O Marriage  visa with no financial proof 

 

 

[CharlieH]

Reported Troll comment removed.

[moontang]

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

Integrity Legal in Bangkok just posted a YouTube video where the attorney(the pudgy guy) recommends Americans who encounter difficulty with extending their Retirement Visa go back to the US and obtain a Non-immigrant O-A.  I thought about this because I obtained the O-A in the past.  But I suspect the requirement for the O-A would change to stay in line with the changes coming for extensions in Thailand.  The Thai Consulate I went to accepted a letter from my pension board with no questions asked.  Also, the 800K Baht requirement can be in a American bank.  Would a newly arrived American who arrives in Thailand on the O-A then be required to open a Thai Bank Account.  

not until a few months before you get an extension.

[HHTel]

So much for the British Embassy conspiracy theories.  Australia, US, UK.  Who's next?

 

Maybe we should run a sweepstake!

[garyk]

Thought this might be interesting to some here? Didn't have $hit to do today so here goes.. haha

 

China, UK, U.S., Japan, Germany, France, + rest of the world = about 435,669 expatriates in Thailand. Got this from Wiki (2010).

 

I divided that by 2 (just a guess on the number of retired expats in Thailand) 435,669 / 2 = 217,834.5 retired expats in Thailand.

 

Then I took that number and multiplied by 800K that needed to be seeded in a Thai bank.

217,834.5 x 800,000 baht = 174,267,600,000 baht / yr. into Thai banks. So about 174.268 billion baht / year.

 

I converted this into dollars so it would be easy for me to identify with.  174,267,600,000 / 32 = 5,445,862,500 U.S. dollars. So 5.445863 billion dollars / year.

 

Now I divided this by 4, because the 800K baht needs to be seeded in a Thai bank for 3 months. 5,445,862,500 / 4 = 1,361,465,625  U.S. dollars. So about 1.361466 billion U.S. dollars guaranteed in a Thai bank at all times throughout the year.

 

Now a investment of 5% / yr.  = 1,361,465,625 x .05 = 68,073,281.25 U.S. dollars / year. So the Thai banks would get a pay day of 68.073 million dollars / year profit.

 

So, if there is 217,834.5 thousand people on a retirement extension = 68,073,281.25 U.S. dollars / yr minimum. Or 68.073 million dollars profit.

 

Just say that was halved that again. 217.834.5K people x .5 = 108,917.25. So that would equal a yearly income to the Thai banks of 68,073,281.25 / 2 = 34,036,640.6 dollars / yr. Or 34.037 million dollars / yr.

 

If we halve it again 108,917.25 x .5 = 54,458.625 retirees. That would be about 17.018 million dollars / yr profit.

 

Of course this is just speculation on my part. I wish I knew the actual number of retired expats living here?

But, it shows there is a very good argument that these new rules will result in a very nice pay day for the banks.

 

Not to mention the 800K seed money will most likely stay in the banks and be drawn down during the year.

 

So, if there are 108.917 K expats in retirement here then the total(guesstimated) value to the banks would be. 1.089172499 billion baht / yr. pure profit guaranteed.

 

IMO what the government is doing is wanting a guaranteed monthly amount invested in a Thai bank, strictly to generate a guaranteed payday. 

 

Smart IMO, and nothing wrong with that if the numbers hold up.

Personally I don't think it has anything to do with the income letters, it is a scheme to generate cash flow. 

Nicely done too.

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by garyk

[fforest1]

35 minutes ago, garyk said:

Thought this might be interesting to some here? Didn't have $hit to do today so here goes.. haha

 

China, UK, U.S., Japan, Germany, France, + rest of the world = about 435,669 expatriates in Thailand. Got this from Wiki (2010).

 

I divided that by 2 (just a guess on the number of retired expats in Thailand) 435,669 / 2 = 217,834.5 retired expats in Thailand.

 

Then I took that number and multiplied by 800K that needed to be seeded in a Thai bank.

217,834.5 x 800,000 baht = 174,267,600,000 baht / yr. into Thai banks. So about 174.268 billion baht / year.

 

I converted this into dollars so it would be easy for me to identify with.  174,267,600,000 / 32 = 5,445,862,500 U.S. dollars. So 5.445863 billion dollars / year.

 

Now I divided this by 4, because the 800K baht needs to be seeded in a Thai bank for 3 months. 5,445,862,500 / 4 = 1,361,465,625  U.S. dollars. So about 1.361466 billion U.S. dollars guaranteed in a Thai bank at all times throughout the year.

 

Now a investment of 5% / yr.  = 1,361,465,625 x .05 = 68,073,281.25 U.S. dollars / year. So the Thai banks would get a pay day of 68.073 million dollars / year profit.

 

So, if there is 217,834.5 thousand people on a retirement extension = 68,073,281.25 U.S. dollars / yr minimum. Or 68.073 million dollars profit.

 

Just say that was halved that again. 217.834.5K people x .5 = 108,917.25. So that would equal a yearly income to the Thai banks of 68,073,281.25 / 2 = 34,036,640.6 dollars / yr. Or 34.037 million dollars / yr.

 

If we halve it again 108,917.25 x .5 = 54,458.625 retirees. That would be about 17.018 million dollars / yr profit.

 

Of course this is just speculation on my part. I wish I knew the actual number of retired expats living here?

But, it shows there is a very good argument that these new rules will result in a very nice pay day for the banks.

 

Not to mention the 800K seed money will most likely stay in the banks and be drawn down during the year.

 

So, if there are 108.917 K expats in retirement here then the total(guesstimated) value to the banks would be. 1.089172499 billion baht / yr. pure profit guaranteed.

 

IMO what the government is doing is wanting a guaranteed monthly amount invested in a Thai bank, strictly to generate a guaranteed payday. 

 

Smart IMO, and nothing wrong with that if the numbers hold up.

Personally I don't think it has anything to do with the income letters, it is a scheme to generate cash flow. 

Nicely done too.

 

First a 5% return sounds to high.....34 or 17 million is hardly even coffee money when divided between all the banks for a whole year....

Edited November 2, 2018 by fforest1

[garyk]

8 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

First a 5% return sounds to high.....34 or 17 million is hardly even coffee money when divided between all the banks for a whole year....

Not in my opinion fforest1, Every little bit helps and IMO it is a very smart move. A few million here and a few million dollars there adds up in a hurry. And 5% when we are talking about a few million dollars at a  time is doable IMO easily.

 

Of course thais is just my opinion. So disregard if you don't agree... ????

 

Regards.

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by garyk

[marcusarelus]

15 minutes ago, garyk said:

Not in my opinion fforest1, Every little bit helps and IMO it is a very smart move. A few million here and a few million dollars there adds up in a hurry. And 5% when we are talking about a few million dollars at a  time is doable IMO easily.

 

Of course thais is just my opinion. So disregard if you don't agree... ????

 

Regards.

You realize that Thailand already has higher foreign reserves than the UK, USA, Germany, Australia and .........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-exchange_reserves

 

Simply put they don't need any more. 

[garyk]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

You realize that Thailand already has higher foreign reserves than the UK, USA, Germany, Australia and .........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-exchange_reserves

 

Simply put they don't need any more. 

Yes I saw that!

Regards

[Ebumbu]

8 hours ago, Ahab said:

Korat immigration has stated to expats that as long as your bank book show the required amount coming in from abroad each month you are good to go. Now every province has different immigrations quirks, but it is likely that Buriram immigration will be the same.

 

Do you know if this can be an average, or if it literally needs to be the same each month? My income varies, but on average easily exceeds the requirements. I can go a month with no deposits, but make it up the next month. 

[Duaned]

What if every month on the 1st or 2nd you go down to like Bangkok Bank and do a cash advance with your debit card with a Bank in America for like 100,000 THB and deposit it in Bangkok Bank is that legit? It shows you have over 65000 THB monthly income.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Duaned
added more

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Duaned said:

What if every month on the 1st or 2nd you go down to like Bangkok Bank and do a cash advance with your debit card with a Bank in America for like 100,000 THB and deposit it in Bangkok Bank is that legit? It shows you have over 65000 THB monthly income.

It's premature to worry about details about a method that may never exist!

 

Here is what we know NOW!

Quote

Your only choice will be to put the required lump sum in a Thai bank account well in advance of your application date.  Period.

http://www.pattayamail.com/mailbag/no-ambiguity-229347

 

 

[onera1961]

27 minutes ago, Duaned said:

What if every month on the 1st or 2nd you go down to like Bangkok Bank and do a cash advance with your debit card with a Bank in America for like 100,000 THB and deposit it in Bangkok Bank is that legit? It shows you have over 65000 THB monthly income.

And why would you do that instead of transferring from BofA checking amount to Bangkok bank account using Transferwise?

[Duaned]

2 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

And why would you do that instead of transferring from BofA checking amount to Bangkok bank account using Transferwise?

Because when I wire my money my bank needs me to fill out forms and e-mails to them also my veterans admin does not send money by direct deposit to Thailand its not listed on there countries list! where my debit is very simple

[onera1961]

4 minutes ago, Duaned said:

Because when I wire my money my bank needs me to fill out forms and e-mails to them also my veterans admin does not send money by direct deposit to Thailand its not listed on there countries list! where my debit is very simple

Transferwise does not require all those. Yes they need an email and need to fill up an online form about your name address in the US. (I don't think they even ask for SS #. I signed up with them, long time ago. Don't remember details what they want to open an account. Everything is online. Just now I transferred from my US bank to Bangkok bank sitting in Thailand. 

[Ebumbu]

12 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Transferwise does not require all those. Yes they need an email and need to fill up an online form about your name address in the US. (I don't think they even ask for SS #. I signed up with them, long time ago. Don't remember details what they want to open an account. Everything is online. Just now I transferred from my US bank to Bangkok bank sitting in Thailand. 

 

 

They will accept a Thai driver's license details in lieu of SS# (at least for Americans). They wanted my passport. Fine. They have you do something silly like hold up two fingers next to passport next to your face. Slightly absurd. 

 

 

[onera1961]

3 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

They will accept a Thai driver's license details in lieu of SS# (at least for Americans). They wanted my passport. Fine. They have you do something silly like hold up two fingers next to passport next to your face. Slightly absurd. 

I signed up with them when the company just started and all those requirements were not there. But I think I have to give them my SS