Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[Jingthing]

Thai immigration does not want / is not capable of analyzing each expats individual financial situation every year. Get real! Also the outside Thailand financial docs people are likely to show will be PRINTS from online! They will not be officialized documents. They will not be apostled. It was OK before to show as BACKUP for the official embassy documents (and this has only been asked on a case by case basis, never required for all).

People are making all kinds of BIZARRE and totally UNFOUNDED assumptions about what Thai immigration is going to be willing (and able to) do.

It's like hearing from people that haven't lived in Thailand.

They like to see the official PAPERS. People are expecting them to do some ANALYTICAL work for each applicant. Have you lived in the same country as me? 

 

This is why I will lobby again for at least this.

Thai immigration can at least simplify this for people getting GOVERNMENT ISSUED pensions that are for life.

Create a system for such GOVERNMENT pension recipients to get a certificate good for life to be claimed as income on income applications.

This presumes the COMBINATION method will continue because many or even most such government pensions are under 65K per month.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Jingthing

[totally thaied up]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

They like to see the official PAPERS. People are expecting them to do some ANALYTICAL work for each applicant. Have you lived in the same country as me?

 

They will, in this country we live in, use the KISS method (keep it simple stupid)

 

800/400 or 65/40 methods will only be accepted with maybe a combo method as well. They will just check bank books and that will be it.

 

Most IO cannot read the multiple languages they deal with daily.

 

Many will leave as they do not have the money. Those with families I feel sorry for.

 

This is a new era just on an old ruling. Us Aussies will be next. I feel this has come from Immigration and this is a clear out. Years ago I remember the border runners on this forum when they got shafted, saying one day it will come back to bite the retired people and the married people.

 

I think that day has come. My guess will be bank book or nothing unless the Embassies get involved but to me, it looks like they have bugged out an put this in the too hard basket. I know if they wanted to get real verification from my banks/shares/pension providers, they would get told to bugger off if they tried and that is really how it should be. I can print stuff out on paper from my Government but hell, it could be forged! If they want real figures, it needs to come from the source and the Embassies and the Immigration department have not got that clout. Pure and simple.

 

 

[rainwater]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Thai immigration does not want / is not capable of analyzing each expats individual financial situation every year. Get real! Also the outside Thailand financial docs people are likely to show will be PRINTS from online! They will not be officialized documents. They will not be apostled. It was OK before to show as BACKUP for the official embassy documents (and this has only been asked on a case by case basis, never required for all).

People are making all kinds of BIZARRE and totally UNFOUNDED assumptions about what Thai immigration is going to be willing (and able to) do.

It's like hearing from people that haven't lived in Thailand.

They like to see the official PAPERS. People are expecting them to do some ANALYTICAL work for each applicant. Have you lived in the same country as me? 

12 years in Thailand and 12 retirement visas...

"making all kinds of BIZARRE and totally UNFOUNDED assumptions" ??? Try reading the instructions from: www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22:

 

"or (5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totaling no less than Baht
800,000 as of the filing date."

...this reconciles the combination method...

 

Regarding "Thai immigration does not want / is not capable of analyzing each expats individual financial situation every year. Get real!"

Given the fact the Embassy will no longer issue Income Affidavits and the fact that the web site states:

 

"3. Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends; and/or"

 

Who do think will approve your documents, will Thai Immigration send you to a 3rd party or do thier own due diligence (or just take a wild guess) and know that most expats will have either Social Security or Military Pensions or both and these type of documents will be easily approved? If your SS or Military pension is not auto deposited into Bangkok Bank (the only bank in Thailand with an ABA # for USA auto and ACH deposits), TI may want to see additional documentation from the USA bank where it is deposited, we'll have to wait and see on some of these details as with all changes, but it will get sorted. Unless you believe Thailand is looking to kick out legitimate expat retirees for no reason?  Don't you think TI already knows USA Income Affidavits have never been verified in the first place? Oy Vey...

Edited October 27, 2018 by rainwater

[mogandave]

First came about 50 years ago- I figured I have put about 50 Million Baht into Thailand over that period- yet I still have to comply with annual extensions of stay- 90 day reports and being stopped to show if I am legal. Do tell- how much more shall I have to put into Thailand?

If you’d of put 100k in the bank when you got here you’d never have had to put another Satang in...

[scoutman360]

Can an LTF or RMF fund qualify for the 800,000 thb requirement? I have that money locked up for a very long time. Hope it will suffice.

[fforest1]

I predict condo sales and house sales to westerners will be falling off a cliff shortly with all this visa tightening year after year....But not to worry I guess the Chinese seem happy to buy just about any thing at any price sight unseen.... 

[Pattaya46]

9 minutes ago, rainwater said:

"3. Evidence of income such as a retirement pension, interest or dividends; and/or"

Who do think will approve your documents? //

Embassies, as usual, and if yours refuse to deliver this "letter", you will have to find another option for your extension.

It's totally unrealistic (IMHO) to think that Thai Immigration will accept any other foreign document as proof of income.

[moontang]

13 minutes ago, scoutman360 said:

Can an LTF or RMF fund qualify for the 800,000 thb requirement? I have that money locked up for a very long time. Hope it will suffice.

100% No, Solly.

[Pattaya46]

5 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

I predict condo sales and house sales to westerners will be falling off a cliff shortly with all this visa tightening year after year....

People living in Thailand are (in huge majority) not impacted by any "Visa tightening"; they are on Extensions whose laws didn't change for years.

And among the thousands people that could be impacted by the decision of these 2 embassies, how many are not able to put 800/400k in a bank? A few hundreds?

And among these few hundreds, how many are not able to find another solution (combo option, short term loan, non-OA...) ? a few tens? less than 10? zero? 

I think you will have to wait a long time if you expect a condo prices crash for this reason.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Who will be the next embassy to announce they are too lazy to service citizens?

Who knows. I gues embassies that only have a few expats wanting income certificates could verify the income and comply with Immigration’s new criteria. 

 

But IMO others will follow the Brits unless immigration back down.

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts have been reported and removed.   The topic is about the US.   Stay on topic and keep it civil.

 

[fforest1]

13 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

People living in Thailand are (in huge majority) not impacted by any "Visa tightening"; they are on Extensions whose laws didn't change for years.

And among the thousands people that could be impacted by the decision of these 2 embassies, how many are not able to put 800/400k in a bank? A few hundreds?

And among these few hundreds, how many are not able to find another solution (combo option, short term loan, non-OA...) ? a few tens? less than 10? zero? 

I think you will have to wait a long time if you expect a condo prices crash for this reason.

Your over confidence that your secure is frightening...The 800,000 baht can and will at some point be upped you can take that to the bank.....They are not making visas easier and easier for westerners....They are making things harder and harder...It all started in 2009 2010 with the crack down on the 30 day visa runners and year by year they have been working up the visa food chain....Who wants to buy a condo in this visa environment? No one who can see where things are going...

Edited October 27, 2018 by fforest1

[rainwater]

29 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Embassies, as usual, and if yours refuse to deliver this "letter", you will have to find another option for your extension.

It's totally unrealistic (IMHO) to think that Thai Immigration will accept any other foreign document as proof of income.

The USA Income Affidavits have never been verified and Thai Immigration is fully aware of this. The UK Embassy "verified" their Income Affidavits but they have also announced: From 1 January 2019, the British Embassy Bangkok will no longer be providing British Nationals with letters confirming their income."

So what will TI do, kick out all USA and all UK expats on retirement visas?

Edited October 27, 2018 by rainwater

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, rainwater said:

The USA Income Affidavits have never been verified and Thai Immigration is fully aware of this. The UK Embassy verified their Income Affidavits but they have also announced: From 1 January 2019, the British Embassy Bangkok will no longer be providing British Nationals with letters confirming their income." 

So what will TI do, kick out all USA and all UK expats on retirement visas?

No.

The 800K baht in a Thai bank seasoned stands.

Lots of people use that.
I think they will probably also allow people to show transfers into Thailand of claimed income to preserve the income method for those without embassy letters.

No idea if the combination method will stand for people without embassy letters, but it seems to me there is no reason for it to end.

I also think a VERY important detail is if Thai immigration allows FLEXIBILITY of imported funds for income methods.

In other words, instead of a set amount per month (which will be different every month based on FX rates) that the TOTAL import of "income" over the year is totaled up. 

If they don't allow such flexibility, then yes, more people will be pushed out.

Imagine some kind of mechanical problem one month with your transfer and then you would not be able to qualify (and 100 other reasons why MONTHLY transfers don't really work for so many people). That situation would be totally ONEROUS. Hopefully TI will get that they need to allow flexibility in timing but don't bet on that either. 

The people doing fraud will definitely pushed out IF there is a crackdown on visa agent corruption. 
Always the X factor.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Jingthing

[Pattaya46]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I also think an important detail is if Thai immigration allows FLEXIBILITY of imported funds for income methods.

In other words, instead of a set amount per month () that the TOTAL import of "income" over the year is totaled up. //

That cannot be that simple. Imagine this extreme case :

- January 1st: I "borrow" 12x65'000 (from friend, agent, …)

- 2nd: I get these 780k transferred on my bank account

- 3rd: I remove this money and pay back the lender

I can now "prove" an income average of 65'000/month,

but that would kill the 800k option ! :

Why keep 800k "inactive" 3 months when you can do it with 780k during 1-2 days? 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

That cannot be that simple. Imagine this extreme case :

- January 1st: I "borrow" 12x65'000 (from friend, agent, …)

- 2nd: I get these 780k transferred on my bank account

- 3rd: I remove this money and pay back the lender

I can now "prove" an income average of 65'000/month,

but that would kill the 800k option ! :

Why keep 800k "inactive" 3 months when you can do it with 780k during 1-2 days? 

The 800K doesn't need to be inactive. You can spend it down. 

[fforest1]

So why could some one not just get 65,000 Baht and deposit it on the first of every month and withdraw it on the 2nd and deposit it again the next month...And do it for 12 months...

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

So why could some one not just get 65,000 Baht and deposit it on the first of every month and withdraw it on the 2nd and deposit it again the next month...And do it for 12 months...

They could but the officers would tend to look at a bank book like that and ask questions. Especially if the deposits aren't from abroad. As if people aren't scamming the 800K method with agents! Get real, there are always angles. 

[kalidescopemind]

I wonder when the day will come that you can stick your ATM card in a reader and they will know how much cash you have?  These pieces of paper are a joke.  

 

[JLCrab]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Where we come from we criticize and call out people for their crimes.

What crimes? You don't mention any crimes just a bunch of hyperbole like the Joke Guy is 'the most corrupt of all'. If it makes you feel better about all the corruption you see by posting on here about all-purpose pervasive corruption and serial killers on the loose fine. Good for you. Your glasses are clear and highly focused.

 

That must do wonders for your high self esteem.

Edited October 27, 2018 by JLCrab
Forgot to include 'high'

[pegman]

It is hard to figure out whether this is to deal with problems with some Brit and American nationals or they are just the first. For what it's worth the Canadian Embassy put this out:

 

"

Hello,

The Embassy of Canada continues providing a letter of income.
If there is any change in the future, information will be post in the Embassy's website : www.Thailand.gc.ca

In obtaining an income verification letter, please see the below information.
****
The Embassy of Canada provides a letter confirming pension income for Canadian citizen applying for a retirement visa, a marriage visa, and one year visa renewal to stay in Thailand."

[kalidescopemind]

What's ridiculous about all this is the police in the USA have total access to your savings/checking and all your credit cards.  Its how they catch people on the run.  But if we want a visa its hell to pay to prove how much money we have.  lol!  Might as well laugh about it.  

[fforest1]

5 minutes ago, pegman said:

It is hard to figure out whether this is to deal with problems with some Brit and American nationals or they are just the first. For what it's worth the Canadian Embassy put this out:

 

"

Hello,

The Embassy of Canada continues providing a letter of income.
If there is any change in the future, information will be post in the Embassy's website : www.Thailand.gc.ca

In obtaining an income verification letter, please see the below information.
****
The Embassy of Canada provides a letter confirming pension income for Canadian citizen applying for a retirement visa, a marriage visa, and one year visa renewal to stay in Thailand."

Yes this maybe true for now but the big dogs are England and America.....Little dogs usually follow the big dogs....

Edited October 27, 2018 by fforest1

[fforest1]

2 minutes ago, kalidescopemind said:

What's ridiculous about all this is the police in the USA have total access to your savings/checking and all your credit cards.  Its how they catch people on the run.  But if we want a visa its hell to pay to prove how much money we have.  lol!  Might as well laugh about it.  

The expat visas are getting more problematic...Why? Because thats what they want,and until the visa trend changes direction dont expect things to get better only worse....

 

[Joe Mcseismic]

4 hours ago, rainwater said:

The USA Income Affidavits have never been verified and Thai Immigration is fully aware of this. The UK Embassy "verified" their Income Affidavits but they have also announced: From 1 January 2019, the British Embassy Bangkok will no longer be providing British Nationals with letters confirming their income."

So what will TI do, kick out all USA and all UK expats on retirement visas?

No, they'll want to see 800k in a Thai bank, properly seasoned, or 65k transferred into a Thai bank every month (I feel like an echo).

[JimmyJ]

9 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

 Thailand is 12th in the world and holds more than 200 million US $$$ as reserves.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-exchange_reserves

Twelfth in the world as far as what?

[pontious]

39 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

The UK Embassy "verified" their Income Affidavits

Incorrect - they confirm you showed them documents that your income is xyz. That is not verification.

[blackhorse]

The expat visas are getting more problematic...Why? Because thats what they want,and until the visa trend changes direction dont expect things to get better only worse....
 

What expat visas are you talking about? There is no such thing as an expat visa!

[Joe Mcseismic]

16 minutes ago, pontious said:

Incorrect - they confirm you showed them documents that your income is xyz. That is not verification.

I never said that. The poster rainwater did.

[EVENKEEL]

Was at a bar yesterday for a few, all Brits there and not a word about any of this. These were guys who stay here. I approached the subject a few days ago and they gave me blank stares, most use an agent and don't bother with any paperwork.