Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[bangsaenguy]

2 minutes ago, johnjohn2 said:

You can get direct deposit to BKK Bank, NY. Details and paperwork avail on their web site. A bit involved to discuss it here. Web site is pretty detailed. You can also SWIFT Transfer money from your bank to BKK Bank through the NY branch for a very small fee. But after April 2019 the transfers have to be ACHI. 

Thanks. What is ACHI? Google was no help

[galt67]

8 minutes ago, david555 said:

I don't understand the reasoning  …. 1 million you loose anyway...., I you have 1 mill. just keep it for the 800 k system , so it stay yours ,just 3 months a year no use from it ….

I will not debate the merits/value of the TE visa. Its been thoroughly discussed on many threads for years.

 

Instead, I was pointing out the 20-year visa at 1 millionBht is a better 'value' (per year) than the 5-year at 500k.

 

A 20-year visa at 50kB per year versus 5-year at 100kB per year.

 

 

 

 

[zydeco]

5 hours ago, Pib said:

Ask your bank branch....or call the POC given on the Bangkok Bank letter.   The POC on the letter told me face to face when she handed me the letter (I met with her in the HQ Bangkok Bank building on a related issue since I live in Bangkok) that HQ has sent internal instructions to all their branches on what retrieval/printout to provide which shows whether your payment is in IAT format or not.   She showed me some example/redacted printouts.  The printout will show down in the lower right hand corner  a "SEC code of IAT or PPD."   It will say along he lines: "SEC: IAT" or "SEC: PPD."   But other differences also exist on the printout like more detailed sender and recipient info....but just look for SEC IAT or PPD code as that is the simplest.   

 

But when your branch gives you the Deer-in-the-Headlights look just call the POC on the letter to ask the question....she can look up the info...plus already has a printout a mile long of folks not receiving their payments in IAT format....I saw that indexed summary list too (not individual details just many pages stapled together).  I joked with her that list  must have "hundreds" of names on it; she replied with "thousands" considering all the U.S. social security, military retirement, OPM, VA, etc., payments they receive.

 

Thank you very much.

[johnjohn2]

6 minutes ago, bangsaenguy said:

Thanks. What is ACHI? Google was no help

Automated Clearing House International format

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

Edited October 28, 2018 by johnjohn2

[bangsaenguy]

Thanks

[david555]

25 minutes ago, galt67 said:

I will not debate the merits/value of the TE visa. Its been thoroughly discussed on many threads for years.

 

Instead, I was pointing out the 20-year visa at 1 millionBht is a better 'value' (per year) than the 5-year at 500k.

 

A 20-year visa at 50kB per year versus 5-year at 100kB per year.

 

 

 

 

I understand that way ….. but loosing the double money anyway , must give much side advantages (?), as many I read I have already , but must do the" legs work" myself in my 800K system ...

as you say each as their own way ..

Edited October 28, 2018 by david555

[Jingthing]

A 5-year Thai Elite Visa is About $15,000 or about $3000 per year. The extension is 1900 baht AFTER you deposit 800K baht in the bank which to me I consider not recoverable as I intend to stay permanently in Thailand. And I do not have the readily demonstrable Social Security or military pension etc. for the 65K baht proof of monthly income.
 
I would like to do the O-A visa but +/- 6 weeks in the US is not really feasible for me.

Well I'm hoping the combo method still stands even without embassy letters.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

Since yous have so many doubts about what Thai Immigration wilt or won't accept- what languages they can understand etc- you may want to call you local Thai Immigration Office and discuss all these issues. No one on this forum knows the answers/

At this point it's totally obvious they don't know either! We all must wait.

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[david555]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

At this point it's totally obvious they don't know either! We all must wait.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

first ones to expect in January ….if immigration still accept the 6 month or less validity of those emb.letters , as we know T.I.T.

[JLCrab]

I will presume K. Galt purchased his 20-year Elite Visa when he was less than 50 years old. I am approaching 70 years old so there is that actuarial consideration. Even if the 20 year Elite is less per year, I may be much more able to have US$15000 in cash by next years renewal than US$30,000.

 

Also I do not agree with the notion that the 800K baht deposit for the retirement extension is still yours. If you intend to stay for the duration in Thailand, it is really gone except that you might leave it to someone in your will.

[david555]

1 minute ago, JLCrab said:

I will presume K. Galt purchased his 20-year Elite Visa when he was less than 50 years old. I am approaching 70 years old so there is that actuarial consideration. Even if the 20 year Elite is less per year, I may be much more able to have US$15000 in cash by next years renewal than US$30,000.

 

Also I do not agree with the notion that the 800K baht deposit for the retirement extension is still yours. If you intend to stay for the duration in Thailand, it is really gone except that you might leave it to someone in your will.

it is yours full to use or not , I think you must eat sleep and pay rent and further, I use my 800K and fill up what is gone before the 3 months seasoning ,besides when leaving Thailand you can take out up to 20 000 in US dollar value any currency, and my KK debit card works in my country to on Atm.... 

 

And yes if we die we do not know where money goes , even with a will ,same for elite 5 years ….. could be some die before 5 years or 20 years used 

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

I will presume K. Galt purchased his 20-year Elite Visa when he was less than 50 years old. I am approaching 70 years old so there is that actuarial consideration. Even if the 20 year Elite is less per year, I may be much more able to have US$15000 in cash by next years renewal than US$30,000.

 

Also I do not agree with the notion that the 800K baht deposit for the retirement extension is still yours. If you intend to stay for the duration in Thailand, it is really gone except that you might leave it to someone in your will.

How many people die without 24 grand in the bank?  I'd say less than 1% of those who can afford international travel. 

[Pib]

If Thai Immigration ultimately ends up with only allowing the Bt800K/400K in a Thai bank option or a monthly transfer of Bt65K/40K option into a Thai bank, for those individuals who can't swing the large deposit option and must go with the monthly transfer option but don't actually spend anything close to Bt65K/40K per month and don't like maintaining a large sum in Thailand then they are going to have to seriously rotating money in and out of Thailand.   

 

Like maybe after three monthly transfers send X-amount of the unspent money back to the home country so it can be used to help refill the home country bank account to continue the monthly transfers to Thailand.  Yes, a round-and-round type thing.  Send it back every 6, 4, or 2 months...every month...up to you how often in order to maintain the rotation.

 

You all know how much it costs to transfer funds to Thailand.  Each person experiences different costs based on the bank/money transfer service he uses.   You know approx how many percent loss occurs due to fees (direct and indirect) combined with exchange rate.  No use talking that....you already now the cost you incur.

 

Now to send the money back to the home country you'll probably be using a Thai bank. How much does that cost?   Not going to talk much about "if" they will let you...that's a different subject....many people do it easily (even without a work permit); others seem run into a brick wall with their Thai banks.  But if you have never actually tried it, you should to find out for yourself.  You may just find out it's easy and quick especially for amounts of say under $10,000 USD equivalent.

 

Well, at the bottom is a chart from an advertiser on ThaiVisa that does a good job of showing the fees (and I know it's indeed close from my previous research & experience).  At a minimum, you'll have the Thai bank basic sending fee in the Bt300-550 range as shown in the first row of the chart.  And then you may (probably) have an intermediary bank fee as the Thai bank probably needs to use a foreign intermediary bank to route the money to your receiving bank.  

 

Since the Thai bank will probably need to use an intermediary bank to reach your home country bank, you can instruct the Thai bank to cover whatever intermediary bank fee occurs which is going to increase your "total" sending fee from Bt300-550 to typically up around Bt1200 "total" like shown in the second row of the chart below.   No requirement for you to accept the fee to cover any intermediary bank fee; the only fee you must pay the Thai bank is their basic sending fee in the Bt300-550 ballpark.

 

As a test a few months ago I did an transfer of few hundred dollars back to the US from my Krungsri ibanking (wanted to ensure it really worked) and the basic sending fee was Bt350.  And if I wanted the bank to cover any intermediary bank fee there was an additional Bt800 fee for a total of Bt1,150.  Well, I wanted to find out if any intermediary bank fee would actually occur...was willing to take the chance to find out....so, I didn't pay the extra Bt800.  Turns out there was an intermediary bank fee as some bank sliced-off exactly $20 (approx Bt650) on the way to my receiving bank.  So, I ended up paying a total of Bt1,000 in fees.  This is a flat fee...applies to small or large amounts.   The money posted to my US account 6 hours after initiating the transfer.

 

Well, what about the exchange rate loss....was there any?  Thai banks use their TT "Selling" Rate when you send money back...it's around 1% lower than the TT "Buying" Rate used for your incoming transfers.  If I assume I was sending back money received around 3 months earlier, well, I did incur around a 1% loss simply because the exchange rate 3 months earlier when receiving the money was almost exactly the same as when sending the money back out.  All depends on which way the exchange rates goes...up or down....you might incur a "loss"....you might incur a "gain"...or you may "break even"....depends on the ever changing exchange rates over time. 

 

Thai bank money transfer chart:  First row "basic" sending fee....must pay that.  Second row is total fee if 
you instruct the bank to cover any intermediary bank fee.  Like for bank 4 below....you must pay Bt500...but if you want any intermediary bank fees covered then the total fee is now Bt1200 (Bt500 plus another Bt700).   As mentioned earlier when I used Krungsri the basic sending fee was Bt350 (you gotta pay that) plus an optional fee of Bt800 if you wanted them to cover any intermediary bank fee for a total of Bt1,150.

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

58 minutes ago, bangsaenguy said:

I currently use the 65,000 method with a document from the Embassy. My pension is deposited into a US account. I recall people using Bangkok Bank, New York as a Thai bank. How does this work? I can certainly show bank statements proving the deposits each month into my US bank

80 pages to read before you ask the same question that's been answered soooooo many times now.

[bkk6060]

8 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

How many people die without 24 grand in the bank?  I'd say less than 1% of those who can afford international travel. 

Which has nothing to do with this as international travelers are not ex-pats living here getting long term Visas.

Most of the people I know who live here have money, but I also know several who live here who claim to have less then 10,000 US in any type of savings or bank any place.  They live off their SS checks only.

Edited October 28, 2018 by bkk6060

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

A 5-year Thai Elite Visa is About $15,000 or about $3000 per year. The extension is 1900 baht AFTER you deposit 800K baht in the bank which to me I consider not recoverable as I intend to stay permanently in Thailand. And I do not have the readily demonstrable Social Security or military pension etc. for the 65K baht proof of monthly income.

 

I would like to do the O-A visa but +/- 6 weeks in the US is not really feasible for me.

The 800K is clearly recoverable because you’re not spending it.

 

The PE visa is a great option for people that can afford it and write-off the cost, but it’s not the most cost efficient way for most expats to stay.

[JLCrab]

This is really getting ridiculous. You put 800K baht in account for three months then it is yours to use for 9 months when you then have to put back in whatever you took out for the next year's extension, Huh? And there will maybe be less than 800K baht in your account if you die within the 9 months and not within the 3 months? So what?

Edited October 28, 2018 by JLCrab

[garyk]

7 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

How many people die without 24 grand in the bank?  I'd say less than 1% of those who can afford international travel. 

I hope to die completely penny less. While traveling... Haven't figured out the equation yet, as the time of death is a variable in the equation that is not easily determined....  But, as I age the variable is narowing... haha

Regards

[bkk6060]

6 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

This is really getting ridiculous. You put 800K baht in account for three months then it is yours to use for 9 months when you then have to put back in whatever you took out for the next year's extension, Huh? And there will maybe be less than 800K baht in your account if you die within the 9 months and not within the 3 months? So what?

????

I get it, but it appears from the comments that some are afraid the banks are not secure and someone will steal the money at some point.

Or, if they die it will go to the government.

$25,000 believe it or not is a life savings for some which is why they came here to have a less financially demanding lifestyle.

[david555]

17 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

This is really getting ridiculous. You put 800K baht in account for three months then it is yours to use for 9 months when you then have to put back in whatever you took out for the next year's extension, Huh? And there will maybe be less than 800K baht in your account if you die within the 9 months and not within the 3 months? So what?

With the 800K you can do what you wish for 9 month' call it a small fin. buffer …., the elite visa money is …..gone in a flash moment , no return at all

we have different opinion , but I think if 800K available you would do...(best choice )

August last 5 minutes at desk after 15 min waiting and morning first customer at KK bank an 200 baht for letter …..a dream scenario for 1 year visa 

And next day my stamped passport and …..I am rich again ???? I can start use my 800 K ,... but you can put an Elite visa in a nice frame on the wall that is also nice to look where your money is  

Edited October 28, 2018 by david555

[gaviny]

This is really getting ridiculous. You put 800K baht in account for three months then it is yours to use for 9 months when you then have to put back in whatever you took out for the next year's extension, Huh? And there will maybe be less than 800K baht in your account if you die within the 9 months and not within the 3 months? So what?

Exactly , that's the road I will take , deposit 800K ,live off it for next 9 months and top up for next renewal.

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[marcusarelus]

16 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Which has nothing to do with this as international travelers are not ex-pats living here getting long term Visas.

Most of the people I know who live here have money, but I also know several who live here who claim to have less then 10,000 US in any type of savings or bank any place.  They live off their SS checks only.

All the expats I know are international travelers.  I had a question motivated by Crab who implied that no one had any money in any bank and it was an imposition (some rigamarole about putting it in and talking it out) to put 24 grand in a bank.  My point was that 99% of the folks who travel abroad or live abroad have 24 grand in a bank somewhere.  You know several who don't, well that was my question.  What percent don't?  I'd say 1% what would you say? 

[galt67]

43 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

I will presume K. Galt purchased his 20-year Elite Visa when he was less than 50 years old. I am approaching 70 years old so there is that actuarial consideration. Even if the 20 year Elite is less per year, I may be much more able to have US$15000 in cash by next years renewal than US$30,000.

 

Also I do not agree with the notion that the 800K baht deposit for the retirement extension is still yours. If you intend to stay for the duration in Thailand, it is really gone except that you might leave it to someone in your will.

1

I purchased it at age '50'.

 

A friend purchased his at age 66 changing from the 'visa extension' method.

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, David Walden said:

This a proven way of getting a Retirement visa.  Use your proof of income in your home country.

 

If you have the required Bt 800,000 in your currency in a US bank or a bit more you can apply and receive a Multi entry "O" retirement visa in your own country and not have any money in any bank account in Thailand ( as I do).  A few hoops to go through costs Aus $275 = UD$ or whatever currency.  You need a bit of paper work,  A police report, a medical certificate it takes about 10 days.  It's the same in in most western countries.  That's how I get my Retirement Visa.  The Thai web site shows you how to go about it and is very good.  In Aus you do it through the Thai Embassy.  When you get to Thailand you just waltz through with everything in order.  The visa you get is multi entry only for the 1st year.  If you leave and return before the 1st year expires and you can do that as many times as you want you will get an extension to stay for another year each time you enter.  So Multi entry "O" is good for one day short of 2 years from you 1st arrival.  If you leave after the 1st year the visa will lapse you cannot get an extension on top of an extension (TIT).  The extension bit is not available after the 1 st year.  You must get the extension before the 1st year concludes.  One day is enough.  If you visa is dated till a certain date it will lapse the day before.  TIT 

 

Added to my previous comments above:-By doing it this way getting your first Retirement Visa in your home country before leaving  you will arrive in Thailand with all in order for 2 years and stay for that time with at least one trip out of the country in the first year to get the extension. Just one day before it the first year expires or many if you want.   You will be able to open a bank account in Thailand and establish your regular Bt 65,000 pension funds in Thailand.  The information I have received is you will I will be able to open a Bank account in Thailand because you already have a Retirement Visa and if your regular Bt65,000 goes into that account that will be enough to renew that visa in 2 years time.  You may still have sign a statutory declaration but not the same as a letter from an Embassy saying you have the funds which often is not true.  This may well be the only or simplest way to do this in the future.

Where did Thai immigration say you could use the 65,000 pension fund income without a letter from the embassy?

[bkk6060]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

All the expats I know are international travelers.  I had a question motivated by Crab who implied that no one had any money in any bank and it was an imposition (some rigamarole about putting it in and talking it out) to put 24 grand in a bank.  My point was that 99% of the folks who travel abroad or live abroad have 24 grand in a bank somewhere.  You know several who don't, well that was my question.  What percent don't?  I'd say 1% what would you say? 

OK, got it sorry.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Since yous have so many doubts about what Thai Immigration wilt or won't accept- what languages they can understand etc- you may want to call you local Thai Immigration Office and discuss all these issues. No one on this forum knows the answers/

• As it stands -- and has been the case for years -- TIB will only accept letters/affidavits from embassies as proof of income. Occasionally they ask for actual proof.
• As it stands -- today -- TIB haven't changed that policy and we do not know if they will.

IF they do change policy (which is possible under their existing 'rules'), IMO, it's highly unlikely that they will start accepting the myriad of documents in different languages (even translated) expats could come up with. That is the main reason they have used the embassies to confirm the income amount.

 

IF they do change policy they will, almost certainly, only accept proof by seeing the income being transferred in to a Thai bank. Something, I am reliably informed, is being discussed due to the British Embassy's announcement.

Edited October 28, 2018 by elviajero

[gaviny]

[emoji846]
I get it, but it appears from the comments that some are afraid the banks are not secure and someone will steal the money at some point.
Or, if they die it will go to the government.
$25,000 believe it or not is a life savings for some which is why they came here to have a less financially demanding lifestyle.

Lol imo there is more chance of a Thai GF stealing our monies than a Thai Bank , in my 3 years of dealing with Bank of Bangkok I have found them to be exceptional.I get a weekly update on my account and if I withdraw from an ATM ,I instantly receive a SMS from them.

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Goldbear]

Maybe Immigration will come up with a "Verification Division" and instead of paying $50 to the Embassy for an income affidavit, Immigration will charge the same and will "verify" income. 

 

That should be easy for some pensions, like US Social Security. Then those people can make up any difference with funds in the bank. 

 

Yeah, I might be dreaming...

[zydeco]

2 minutes ago, Goldbear said:

Maybe Immigration will come up with a "Verification Division" and instead of paying $50 to the Embassy for an income affidavit, Immigration will charge the same and will "verify" income. 

 

That should be easy for some pensions, like US Social Security. Then those people can make up any difference with funds in the bank. 

 

Yeah, I might be dreaming...

Who knows?  More jobs. More patronage for jobs and promotion. Always a good thing, here.

[JLCrab]

I don't know what is rigmarole. If I choose to go the Thailand Elite route as opposed to the 800K baht retirement extension or the O-A visa route and choose for my own reasons to do the 500K 5 year instead of the 1 million 20 year I have my own reasons for doing so. I am not suggesting to anyone else what to do. I would really like to do the O-A but 6 weeks in the USA to comfortably get it done is a big problem when I have no place to stay for most of that time other than hotels and with a rental car.

 

But assuming my next (last) one year affidavit-based extension goes through OK I will have most of the next year to figure out what to do next.