Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[newatthis]

30 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

So what's your concern with statements and codes.

 

There is no requirement that the income came from a foreign source, other than when you do a conversion to a Non Imm.

No concern. Just commenting on post #2038 above.

[JLCrab]

Regardless of what anyone may say, think, or hope on here, it may very well turn out that any new procedure for non-affidavit based monthly income extension of stay state that funds must be proven to have been transferred to a Thai bank account each month from an account ex-Thailand.

 

As the (US) Boy Scout motto: Be Prepared.

[AGareth2]

35 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Regardless of what anyone may say, think, or hope on here, it may very well turn out that any new procedure for non-affidavit based monthly income extension of stay state that funds must be proven to have been transferred to a Thai bank account each month from an account ex-Thailand.

 

As the (US) Boy Scout motto: Be Prepared.

I agree

That would be enough proof

IMO

[Tanoshi]

38 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Regardless of what anyone may say, think, or hope on here, it may very well turn out that any new procedure for non-affidavit based monthly income extension of stay state that funds must be proven to have been transferred to a Thai bank account each month from an account ex-Thailand.

 

As the (US) Boy Scout motto: Be Prepared.

What about those on Marriage extensions, who have a separate work permit.

Most or all of their income comes from within Thailand.

 

If Immigration issue a new Directive for income based applications, it will have to accommodate all expats.

 

[merijn]

46 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Regardless of what anyone may say, think, or hope on here, it may very well turn out that any new procedure for non-affidavit based monthly income extension of stay state that funds must be proven to have been transferred to a Thai bank account each month from an account ex-Thailand.

 

As the (US) Boy Scout motto: Be Prepared.

That would be a proof for the past but how do you proof the transfers for the future.

That is what the IO is looking for, a guarantee that the transfers will be done for the next 12 months.

[JLCrab]

The Embassy affidavits for extension of stay were a standardized template where every applicant had the exact same boilerplate document from their respective country's embassy. The IMM folks MAY decide that the ex-Thailand transfer is the only way to avoid the situation where every applicant comes in with a different scenario and set of documents than the applicant just before resulting in total gridlock.

[fforest1]

3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

 

Definitely shows as a Foreign Telegraph Transfer (FTT) in a Bangkok bank passbook.

So if you transferred 65,000 from one Thai bank to another the code in the bank book would look the same as a international transfer..? 

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

So if you transferred 65,000 from one Thai bank to another the code in the bank book would look the same as a international transfer..? 

No. Shows as TRO.

Transfer from Other account.

[onera1961]

3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Definitely shows as a Foreign Telegraph Transfer (FTT) in a Bangkok bank passbook.

I have done 100s of Transferwise transfer to Bangkok Bank and all show FTT. Not sure about other banks. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

22 hours ago, Thaidream said:

You are probably right but there is no requirement in the Immigration Act that says the  money has to originate from overseas.  In fact- years ago- I brought  the money in by cash and travelers checks  and deposited in my Thai Bank Account- when I did my marriage extension- IO didn't  even blink.  Time will tell.

 

Just a reminder here, that all of this is speculation at this point... because:

 

1. Immigration HQ has said nothing publicly about what kind of monthly income verification scheme, if any, they're going to be willing to accept for the future in lieu of Embassy income affidavits/letters.

 

and 2. That includes no indication whatsoever at this point of whether that scheme will or won't include the requirement that the monthly income funds must be shown to come from abroad.

 

The only indications we have thus far, AFAIK, are the references by the British and Australian embassies in their statement to those monthly funds needing to be deposited into Thai bank accounts.

 

But what kind of funds and coming from what sources???  Who knows! Would the deposits have to be the minimum 40K or 65K each and every month, or will they accept averages over the year?  Who knows!

 

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[mtls2005]

What is the timing/duration requirement for the 65,000 monthly income prior to renewal of an extension?

 

Three months, six months, nine months, twelve months, fifteen months?

 

 

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

What is the timing/duration requirement for the 65,000 monthly income prior to renewal of an extension?

Three months, six months, nine months, twelve months, fifteen months?

Nobody knows the answer to that question. Immigration has not stated anything about it yet.

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The only indications we have thus far, AFAIK, are the references by the British and Australian embassies in their statement to those monthly funds needing to be deposited into Thai bank accounts

The actual word used by the UK Embassy Bangkok, now that they will no longer be able to provide an income letter, is "TRANSFERRING the minimum funds needed into a Thai bank account". 

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by JLCrab

[zydeco]

After 138 pages in this topic, all I can say is it's a pity we had a system that, for the most part, worked pretty well.  It seems only a very small number were misreporting their funds on the income letter. Now, everything has been spilled out from the cart onto the street, and who knows what's going to be lost in the mix-up.  From the obsessions on this topic in the American, UK, and Australian threads, I'm thinking some people are going to work themselves into a heart attack or make themselves miserable for months on end with worry.  All because some damn fools wanted to upend a system that was working efficiently and mostly fairly.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

The actual word used by the UK Embassy Bangkok, now that they will no longer be able to provide an income letter, is "TRANSFERRING the minimum funds needed into a Thai bank account".

 

Yep, the Australian Embassy announcement used the same phrase "transferring" -- which could be interpreted as meaning foreign sourced.

[Nyezhov]

In terms of Krungsri Bank, I just did a Transferwise in and the code in my bankbook is unexplainable to my local branch. That means a trip down to the branch near the embassy for an explanation.

 

I am scheduled for Immigration on the 8th for my report back on my initial application for an extension. I have had my visit from Immigration. I guess Ill see what happens.

[fforest1]

2 minutes ago, zydeco said:

After 138 pages in this topic, all I can say is it's a pity we had a system that, for the most part, worked pretty well.  It seems only a very small number were misreporting their funds on the income letter. Now, everything has been spilled out from the cart onto the street, and who knows what's going to be lost in the mix-up.  From the obsessions on this topic in the American, UK, and Australian threads, I'm thinking some people are going to work themselves into a heart attack or make themselves miserable for months on end with worry.  All because some damn fools wanted to upend a system that was working efficiently and mostly fairly.

Correct.....The old system was working just fine,I heard virtually no one complaining about it expats,embassies or Thai immigration....No complaints at all......

Immigration tightening seems to be in fashion its taking place in other countries too....

[Pattaya46]

12 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

"transferring" -- which could be interpreted as meaning foreign sourced.

could...

but could also be interpreted as an incitation to use the Agents' route… 

[moontang]

11 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

In terms of Krungsri Bank, I just did a Transferwise in and the code in my bankbook is unexplainable to my local branch. That means a trip down to the branch near the embassy for an explanation.

 

I am scheduled for Immigration on the 8th for my report back on my initial application for an extension. I have had my visit from Immigration. I guess Ill see what happens.

maybe bring statements from the bank it came from, if proving it came from abroad is an issue..

[Pib]

8 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

In terms of Krungsri Bank, I just did a Transferwise in and the code in my bankbook is unexplainable to my local branch. That means a trip down to the branch near the embassy for an explanation.

 

I am scheduled for Immigration on the 8th for my report back on my initial application for an extension. I have had my visit from Immigration. I guess Ill see what happens.

I did one Transferwise transfer to my Krungsri account....the code was "TN" with a description that was just a long apha/number number which I think was the transfer number assigned by Transferwise.  I haven't asked what the definition of TN is....I expect it's Transfer XXXXXXX.  I need to find out.   See if it means a foreign transfer or just any old transfer like a domestic transfer.

 

But Transferwise transfers to my Bangkok Bank account have a Code of FTT (Foreign Telegraph Transfer) with a description of International Transfer.

 

Each Thai bank uses different coding and descriptions for transactions.

 

If immigration goes with a foreign transfer requirement into a Thai bank the coding for your passbook will surely be critical come extension renewal application time.

[Nyezhov]

1 minute ago, moontang said:

maybe bring statements from the bank it came from, if proving it came from abroad is an issue..

Im sure there is a paper trail, but then we get back to the old "if it aint in a Thai bankbook it didnt happen"

[Ebumbu]

3 hours ago, onera1961 said:

I have done 100s of Transferwise transfer to Bangkok Bank and all show FTT. Not sure about other banks. 

 

Cool. But Transferwise transfers from their local Thai bank to yours, don't they? That's their innovation and how they can offer lower fees. They have their own bank on the ground in each country that does a local transfer. That's my understanding. No actual money moves across borders (as per long, long talk with Tranferwise rep). 

[moontang]

3 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Im sure there is a paper trail, but then we get back to the old "if it aint in a Thai bankbook it didnt happen"

yep, worst case scenario, you are back to square one.

[onera1961]

3 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

Cool. But Transferwise transfers from their local Thai bank to yours, don't they?

I don't think you can use transferwise to transfer from Thai banks to any other banks. 

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Ebumbu said:

Cool. But Transferwise transfers from their local Thai bank to yours, don't they? That's their innovation and how they can offer lower fees. They have their own bank on the ground in each country that does a local transfer. That's my understanding. No actual money moves across borders (as per long, long talk with Tranferwise rep). 

Thai Imm has never cared about where the money came from except when changing from  an Exempt Entry/Tourist Visa to a Non O- No where in the Police Order does it say the funds have to be transferred from abroad.  It is left like that so- people who want to retire  have many options of meeting the requirement.

 

A person using the married income method- can be working in Thailand; they can make an investment in Thailand and have income from that; they might have bought  Condo's and rent them out and on and on. 

 

One can visit their home country and bring back amounts in cash; travelers checks or gold; One can write a personal check for xxx amount and deposit it in a Thai bank-wait 2 weeks for it to clear and have 800K or 400K.   

 

Could they change the police order and state only 1 way to do it-  They could  but also they don't have too.  There was also a time when there was no Embassy Letter- yet people had ways of staying.

[Maestro]

5 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

I don't think you can use transferwise to transfer from Thai banks to any other banks. 

No, you can't, but TransferWise transfer the money in Baht from their Thai bank account to your Thai Bank account. They say so on their website.

[Ebumbu]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

Thai Imm has never cared about where the money came from except when changing from  an Exempt Entry/Tourist Visa to a Non O- No where in the Police Order does it say the funds have to be transferred from abroad.  It is left like that so- people who want to retire  have many options of meeting the requirement.

 

Except in Phuket, and apparently in Chiang Mai. They do care about the source of income for type-O holders extending their visa for retirement. Even a bankbook showing monthly deposits into a Thai account is not adequate proof here in Phuket, because it only proves the past, not the future. I do not have a government income, which seems to be the only proof possible. Have asked for assistance from Thai lawyer. They are reviewing my documents and inquiring next week. Will see what happens. 

[JLCrab]

If Thai IMM does in fact go, post income affidavit, this foreign transfer "FTT" route, it may not be because there is any regulatory requirement to do so but that may be their means to avoid an entire administrative meltdown of their IMM office systems with, otherwise, everyone coming in with some ala carte version as to how they intend to prove their monthly income.

Edited November 4, 2018 by JLCrab

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

Except in Phuket, and apparently in Chiang Mai. They do care about the source of income for type-O holders extending their visa for retirement. Even a bankbook showing monthly deposits into a Thai account is not adequate proof here in Phuket, because it only proves the past, not the future. I do not have a government income, which seems to be the only proof possible. Have asked for assistance from Thai lawyer. They are reviewing my documents and inquiring next week. Will see what happens. 

From what I have read on this forum- they are asking for  proof of a guaranteed income flow which does not end.  Unfortunately, Phuket  is restricting it to  A Government  Pension and possibly Military which is paid by the Government. CM- is asking  in some cases for proof of income -the source.

 

Phuket is in a World unto itself as a Government pension is not the only pension type that is guaranteed and since the extension is for 1 year- it needs to be only 'guaranteed' for the year.  People retire from Corporations after a lifetime of work with 'guaranteed' Pensions.  Do keep us informed.

 

In addition- income sources could be an investment in a  hotel which provides x amount per month- or a  Condo that is rented out. Past  income streams are used all the time to prove income- Banks  and finance companies use it all the time to make decisions.  Time for Phuket to join the 21st Century.

[HAL9000]

11 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Did you use TransferWise?

 

Yes