Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, jimn said:

A question concerning me and a number of people UJ is will they accept proof of income into a foriegn bank account. This is key to me. I am on a retirement extension but only stay in Thailand 7 months returning home to the UK for 5 months. Its not practicle for me to transfer 12 x 65k into my Thai account as when I go back to the UK I would have nothing to live on. Also the income letter now is based on GROSS not NET income which would be the case with a transfer of 65k into a Thai account. If these could be questions asked I would be grateful. Thank you

I don't think they would be able to answer such detailed questions about it at the meeting. It is just to get some kind of confirmation of what they will be doing. Such details would come out when they do a written directive or more than likely a change to the police order.

[soleddy]

Same with me. I have a large lump in Jersey on fixed 5 years, so I cannot touch it. But, the interest is too low to show 65,000 a month. I'm up a gum tree.

[moontang]

7 minutes ago, soleddy said:

Same with me. I have a large lump in Jersey on fixed 5 years, so I cannot touch it. But, the interest is too low to show 65,000 a month. I'm up a gum tree.

Always break up large fixed into smaller ones, even if everything else is the same...protects you if you need to cash out part of it.

[jimn]

17 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I don't think they would be able to answer such detailed questions about it at the meeting. It is just to get some kind of confirmation of what they will be doing. Such details would come out when they do a written directive or more than likely a change to the police order.

Thanks UJ just thinking aloud really. The situation is so uncertain at the moment it seems to affect so many people in different ways. I am actually going to be ok until May 2020 if they honour the 6 months for the letter, but along with others it would be nice to plan for the following year ASAP.

[Tagaa]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

 Your comment was rude and shows a lack of caring and understanding .

Friend, if you are here looking for caring and understanding, you made a very wrong turn somewhere around the Grand Canyon.

 

I'm just sayin....

 

Also, I have only read the first page & the last 2 pages of this topic. But from what I have read, nobody really knows anything factually etched in stone, and at this juncture, we have 151 pages of WAG's, speculation & fomentation of rumor.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Tagaa said:

Friend, if you are here looking for caring and understanding, you made a very wrong turn somewhere around the Grand Canyon.

 

I'm just sayin....

 

Also, I have only read the first page & the last 2 pages of this topic. But from what I have read, nobody really knows anything factually etched in stone, and at this juncture, we have 151 pages of WAG's, speculation & fomentation of rumor.

I live by the Golden Rule- treat other people as you want to be treated.  It is a sad commentary when an individual cannot express a personal opinion without being subject to a personal attack or a comment on their character- because someone else doesn't agree.

[Tagaa]

I agree....Sadly, you and I are in the minority here.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, jimn said:

A question concerning me and a number of people UJ is will they accept proof of income into a foriegn bank account. This is key to me. I am on a retirement extension but only stay in Thailand 7 months returning home to the UK for 5 months. Its not practicle for me to transfer 12 x 65k into my Thai account as when I go back to the UK I would have nothing to live on. Also the income letter now is based on GROSS not NET income which would be the case with a transfer of 65k into a Thai account. If these could be questions asked I would be grateful. Thank you

I'm going to unwisely go out on a limb because I think some of this is rather obvious.

IF and I do mean IF Thai immigration changes to an import a minimum of 65K baht a month rule, I think it's fair to assume some things just based on common sense.

 

-- Net or gross would be irrelevant. They wouldn't be interested in such details. They would want to see the at least 65K coming in regardless.

 

-- Your problem with not being here all year is not their problem. You could transfer out funds that you need back home. 

 

But yes there are tons of unanswered details. Will they allow a bunch of transfers to at least total 65K x 12 instead of rigidly demanding monthly. What if a transfer is a week late? What if one transfer falls under 65K due to exchange rates?

 

All in all IF they move to full required import we're talking a very onerous, very negative change for retirogrants using the income method that will no doubt mean many will be leaving Thailand because it will have become just too ridiculously difficult. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Jingthing

[Pattaya46]

47 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I don't think they would be able to answer such detailed questions about it at the meeting. It is just to get some kind of confirmation of what they will be doing. Such details would come out when they do a written directive or more than likely a change to the police order.

Yes, seems logical to me.

Many people comment here as if all new rules should be ready and already available in all Immigration Offices, but in fact Thai Immigration may well not have planned such a change but is being forced to do something because of the decision of 3 big embassies. Give them some time.

[Oztruckie]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I cannot think of that many question that can be asked. Hard to ask many questions about something that you know nothing about since they have not said anything yet.

It may only be a meeting with only one or two people.

Just an update Joe,was at Jomtien Immi about 1 hour ago to renew my ext of stay for another 12 months,wouldn't accept the stat. dec. alone,required more proof I have the available funds as stated in stat dec,not really a problem just bit of inconvenience.

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

All in all IF they move to full required import we're talking a very onerous, very negative change for retirogrants using the income method that will no doubt mean many will be leaving Thailand because it will have become just too ridiculously difficult. 

I agree- if they make it too hard to comply- many will just say goodbye and go elsewhere or resort to 'agents'.  To me- the combo method is the one that is going to be tough- because unless they allow  just a few months seasoning- as seed money- what good will it be.    And then if they will only accept transfers-  topping it up gets onerous.  I really wonder if Thai Imm has thought through all the ramifications of this  situation...  I suspect not  and it will be hit and miss based upon what office you use and when it happens. 

So far- this has been poorly handled...  The Embassies and Thai Imm should have come to a conclusion together and once the announce made by the embassies- Thai Imm made an immediate announcement  laying out the new program. Instead, we are left with a lack of direction; an inability to get our Embassies to answer any detailed questions and a general feeling that no one really cares other than people affected.

[Thaidream]

5 minutes ago, Oztruckie said:

ust an update Joe,was at Jomtien Immi about 1 hour ago to renew my ext of stay for another 12 months,wouldn't accept the stat. dec. alone,required more proof I have the available funds as stated in stat dec,not really a problem just bit of inconvenience.

Thanks for the report- certainly doable- apparently they had no problem understanding your 'proof'.  

[fforest1]

13 minutes ago, Oztruckie said:

Just an update Joe,was at Jomtien Immi about 1 hour ago to renew my ext of stay for another 12 months,wouldn't accept the stat. dec. alone,required more proof I have the available funds as stated in stat dec,not really a problem just bit of inconvenience.

So I guess you have 800,000 in the bank ..

[pellets]

On 10/26/2018 at 10:23 AM, likerdup1 said:

yea, just got this in my Embassy alerts. See attached print out of the email. I verify this to be true also.

IncomeAffidavitStopped.pdf

 

On 10/26/2018 at 10:43 AM, ubonjoe said:

The ball is now in the Immigration Bureaus hand now. They are the ones that are going to have change the rules.

I can prove every cent or sating shown on the income affidavits I have done.

A bank book showing all of it coming in plus the letter I will get in December stating how much I will be getting next year and a statement in January for this years income.

But you STILL have to show a "certificate" which prove the monthly income, converted to THB for the Immigration, or do you need "only" the statement from your account in US?

[OJAS]

31 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I agree- if they make it too hard to comply- many will just say goodbye and go elsewhere or resort to 'agents'.  To me- the combo method is the one that is going to be tough- because unless they allow  just a few months seasoning- as seed money- what good will it be.    And then if they will only accept transfers-  topping it up gets onerous.  I really wonder if Thai Imm has thought through all the ramifications of this  situation...  I suspect not  and it will be hit and miss based upon what office you use and when it happens. 

So far- this has been poorly handled...  The Embassies and Thai Imm should have come to a conclusion together and once the announce made by the embassies- Thai Imm made an immediate announcement  laying out the new program. Instead, we are left with a lack of direction; an inability to get our Embassies to answer any detailed questions and a general feeling that no one really cares other than people affected.

My gut feeling is that it may well be curtains for the combo method - which, of course, is only available for retirement (and not marriage) extensions as things currently stand in any event.

 

And, were it to transpire that the Immigration requirement was, indeed, 65k per month net rather than gross, the cumulative effect could prove to be a double whammy for some.

Edited November 6, 2018 by OJAS

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, OJAS said:

My gut feeling is that it may well be curtains for the combo method - which, of course, is only available for retirement (and not marriage) extensions as things currently stand in any event.

 

And, were it to transpire that the Immigration requirement was, in effect, 65k per month net rather than gross, the cumulative result could prove to be a double whammy for some.

That would be my guess too. However, they would be wise to keep it.  Nobody is going to have exactly 65K coming in monthly just based on exchange rates alone!

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, pellets said:

But you STILL have to show a "certificate" which prove the monthly income, converted to THB for the Immigration, or do you need "only" the statement from your account in US?

I cannot answer that question since immigration has not announced anything about it.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

Yes, seems logical to me.

Many people comment here as if all new rules should be ready and already available in all Immigration Offices, but in fact Thai Immigration may well not have planned such a change but is being forced to do something because of the decision of 3 big embassies. Give them some time.

That is exactly what’s happened. And since the British embassy announced that they won’t comply with the new requirements immigration are left with a decision about what to do.

 

Apparently a meeting of immigration top brass happened last week. I’m not sure if it was to discuss options, or announce a decision, but hopefully we will hear soon.

[mogandave]

I agree- if they make it too hard to comply- many will just say goodbye and go elsewhere or resort to 'agents'.  To me- the combo method is the one that is going to be tough- because unless they allow  just a few months seasoning- as seed money- what good will it be.    And then if they will only accept transfers-  topping it up gets onerous.  I really wonder if Thai Imm has thought through all the ramifications of this  situation...  I suspect not  and it will be hit and miss based upon what office you use and when it happens. 
So far- this has been poorly handled...  The Embassies and Thai Imm should have come to a conclusion together and once the announce made by the embassies- Thai Imm made an immediate announcement  laying out the new program. Instead, we are left with a lack of direction; an inability to get our Embassies to answer any detailed questions and a general feeling that no one really cares other than people affected.

Hello?

It’s two governments trying to do something together. Bad enough when it’s one.

[malagateddy]

Quick question..I'm fortunate in as much that I can use the 800000 baht method in my Thai Bank for 3 months before my retirement extension.
My question is this..does it have to be eg...1st August to 1st November? or can it be eg..the 7th August to 7th November?
Thanks in advance for replies.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

That would be my guess too. However, they would be wise to keep it.  Nobody is going to have exactly 65K coming in monthly just based on exchange rates alone!

A lot of people use Transferwise or other similar money transfer services where they can lock-in "exactly" how much will arrive from the get-go.  But with such services you must logon each month and manually initiate the transfer for say exactly Bt65,000, or Bt65,001, and whatever amount you wanted to post to your Thai bank account....with that funding coming from your bank account or debit/credit card.  At least with Transferwise there no "automatic" per month transfer capability...must do a manual transfer each time.   

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Quick question..I'm fortunate in as much that I can use the 800000 baht method in my Thai Bank for 3 months before my retirement extension.
My question is this..does it have to be eg...1st August to 1st November? or can it be eg..the 7th August to 7th November?
Thanks in advance for replies.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Just has to be in your bank account "at least three months before your renewal application date"; not the date your extension expires but whatever date you choose to go in before it expires to apply for a renewal.

[Thaidream]

6 minutes ago, Pib said:

ust has to be in your bank account "at least three months before your renewal application date"; not the date your extension expires but whatever date you choose to go in before it expires to apply for a renewal.

While it can be done monthly- the reason is to prove one actually has the income-  there are much better ways  to actually prove the income exists-  To me it's strange that Thai Imm wants to reject the current letter system and replace it with something that is much less as far as verification than what it had. They apparently don't want to take the time themselves to verify the income so apparently they never really cared whether you had it or not.

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Nobody is going to have exactly 65K coming in monthly just based on exchange rates alone!

The current (2014) Police Order says at 2.22(3):

Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month

 

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

While it can be done monthly- the reason is to prove one actually has the income-  there are much better ways  to actually prove the income exists-  To me it's strange that Thai Imm wants to reject the current letter system and replace it with something that is much less as far as verification than what it had. They apparently don't want to take the time themselves to verify the income so apparently they never really cared whether you had it or not.

I'm sure there an many ways to prove income....some ways hard and some ways simple.  I expect TI will use the KISS principle and go with the 65/40K international transfer to a Thai bank option.  Proof of such a monthly transfer would be your Thai bank passbook.  

 

And TI will care less if a person is rotating the money right back to the home country each month so he can send it again.  His passbook is going to show the money coming in, the money being withdrawn, more money coming in....etc.   Now the bulk of the money withdrawn may have been rotated back to the home country and the remaining used for living expenses, but TI will not care.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

And TI will care less if a person is rotating the money right back to the home country each month so he can send it again.  His passbook is going to show the money coming in, the money being withdrawn, more money coming in....etc.   Now the bulk of the money withdrawn may have been rotated back to the home country and the remaining used for living expenses, but TI will not care.

Exactly my point- they won't care and  one can rotate funds easily and never have the income which would eventually lead to the required total..  The 3 Embassies system that apparently is being rejected was more a 'proof' of total income then  what they may adopt. 

I find it an absurd Kabuki Dance and totally shows a complete lack of communication between Embassies that are supposed to be experts in diplomacy and a Thai Imm that doesn't understand how to deal with foreign embassies or lack an understanding of what  income verification actually means.

[JLCrab]

15 minutes ago, Pib said:

I expect TI will use the KISS principle and go with the 65/40K international transfer to a Thai bank option.  Proof of such a monthly transfer would be your Thai bank passbook.  

Maybe but that way none of the money could actually originate ex-Thailand

 

But as long as the Thai IMM folks realize it's possible to set up a scheme whereby actually zero money is brought in each month that originated ex-Thai, if it doesn't bother them, it's not going to bother me.

Edited November 6, 2018 by JLCrab

[joevanwyck]

14 minutes ago, Pib said:

I'm sure there an many ways to prove income....some ways hard and some ways simple.  I expect TI will use the KISS principle and go with the 65/40K international transfer to a Thai bank option.  Proof of such a monthly transfer would be your Thai bank passbook.  

 

And TI will care less if a person is rotating the money right back to the home country each month so he can send it again.  His passbook is going to show the money coming in, the money being withdrawn, more money coming in....etc.   Now the bulk of the money withdrawn may have been rotated back to the home country and the remaining used for living expenses, but TI will not care.

I Agree.

[Pib]

Whatever option TI provides to replace/update the current monthly income with embassy letter option will surely have weaknesses.  Any option will have it pros...cons....strengths....weaknesses and only TI can determine what it can live with.

 

Just like the core weakness of the embassy letter method is embassies pretty much just accepted the word of the individual and possibly some real/fake income doc at face value.  No "verification" was done...embassy letter issued.   In turn, most immigration offices accepted the embassy letter without asking for support proof at face value with face value meaning: the superficial appearance or implication of something.

 

No embassy verification was done to confirm any supporting doc was real other than possibly eyeballing the doc to see if something obvious jumps out as being a fake/modified doc.   The embassy letter was basically a letter saying we trust you because we are accepting your information at face-value along with your affirmation.  And if you lied, then something bad may happen to you with the probability of that happening being similar to the chances of being struck by lightning or winning the billion dollar lottery.

 

We are just going to have to wait and see what TI will accept as proof of income when using the monthly income option.   It's TI's decision to make; not the decision of foreign embassies or individuals impacted by the decision.

 

 

 

 

[sqwakvfr]

If my extension is denied(for whatever reason) I am considering this:  Foreigners that receive a lifetime retirement or pension from a foreign government, international agency or private enterprise, who enter Panama to live and have sufficient economic means to cover all of their living expenses for themselves and their dependents, will be able to request the Panama Pensioner Visa.  The income or monthly pension must not be less than One Thousand US Dollars (US$1,000) and should be granted to the applicant for life.

I figure I should research other options just in case?