Anything new or interesting in Phuket?

[NamKangMan]

On 10/29/2018 at 5:26 PM, NamKangMan said:

 

I have stated before that Vietnam is Thailand's main competitor in the region, and if it is not now, it will be in the future. This does not even take into account Vietnam has casinos. 

 

As madmitch stated, Phuket doesn't feel like an "exotic destination" anymore, whilst Vietnam is offering just that experience, and at a much lower cost.

 

Take a look at the below link. 

 

I draw your attention to this line: "Total international arrivals in 9 months reached 11,616,490 arrivals, increase 22.9% over the same period last year."  I suggest that 22.9% increase will grow, exponentially, over the next few years.

 

http://vietnamtourism.gov.vn/english/index.php/cat/1501

 

If you look at the below table, you will see Vietnam also gets their share of Chinese and Russians, but in my opinion, Vietnam has picked up many of the "high end tourists" that Phuket / Thailand now lacks.

 

http://vietnamtourism.gov.vn/english/index.php/items/13302

 

In my opinion, Phuket no long offers a pleasant, value for money holiday, for independent middle class western tourists.

 

Also, I see Spain has once again become popular with Europeans, particularly Brits, and Bali is packed again with Australians, after the terror attacks. 

 

In my opinion, Thailand, but particularly Phuket, relied on it's reputation, whilst doing NOTHING to attract new tourists, Chinese / Russian / Indian package holiday tourists aside, whilst retaining repeat tourists.

 

I have asked the question before, yet to receive an answer:  "Name one positive thing that has been implemented on Phuket, in recent time, to benefit tourists, expats, and locals?"  

 

How can Phuket remain competitive when their competition is building it bigger, better, and faster????

 

Phuket failed to move, when their competition was moving forward, rapidly, which in the tourism industry, that's has good as falling behind. 

 

I was informed about the contents of the below link recently. 

 

It tends to show my question: "How can Phuket remain competitive when their competition is building it bigger, better, and faster????" to be factual. 

 

This is on top of a world record cable car, and Las Vegas style casinos resorts, and a new major airport being built.

 

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.first-look-exploring-the-new-vietnam-street-circuit-in-hanoi.3qzWDYB0pqYWSo284QmO8A.html

 

 

 

 

 

[billythehat]

14 hours ago, NamKangMan said:

 

"Outside of Lalaland, the term Freehold is completely understood in meaning" - I agree, however, the use of the word "freehold" in Thailand, by anyone, or any company, is misleading.  Freehold DOES NOT exist for a foreigner in Thailand.  It's as simple as that.  Like I have said, condo's DO NOT float in mid air. 

 

"I would guess the average Somchai fares no better should property issues go pot-over-teacup either." - yes and no.  If Somchai owns a condo in a block that has foreign "owners" in it then he is, or could be, in the 51% which gives him more voting power.  If Somchai is in a condo block completely owned by Thai's, and the said Thai's own the land the block sits on, not a developer, then he shares equal voting power, and whilst he can also be out voted, at least it was a fairer system of majority rules, whereas, a foreigner will ALWAYS be in the minority, thus, even collectively, never having equal voting rights.

Sir, unfortunately I chose engineering as a career and not one in the legal profession and so I’ll have to take your word for the points mentioned. Come to think of it, I don’t think such legal expertise would have the slightest bit of difference concerning the machinations of dodging the bullet in Lalaland. Furthermore, the only brown envelopes dropping through my letterbox are ones demanding cash for one thing or another, perhaps pointing to an earlier wrong decision in career choice.

[NamKangMan]

20 hours ago, billythehat said:

Sir, unfortunately I chose engineering as a career and not one in the legal profession and so I’ll have to take your word for the points mentioned. Come to think of it, I don’t think such legal expertise would have the slightest bit of difference concerning the machinations of dodging the bullet in Lalaland. Furthermore, the only brown envelopes dropping through my letterbox are ones demanding cash for one thing or another, perhaps pointing to an earlier wrong decision in career choice.

 

"I don’t think such legal expertise would have the slightest bit of difference concerning the machinations of dodging the bullet in Lalaland." - I agree.  The law in Thailand is what someone is willing to pay to make it, thus, it's lawless here.  

 

Between corrupt officials, corrupt police, corrupt lawyers, and "laws" skewed towards benefiting Thai's over foreigners, a foreigner really has no chance here, and even if they can secure a judgement in their favor, any monies they are seeking to be refunded are long long gone, and so is the Thai and / or his company that was involved.

 

As mentioned previously, many here have no idea what they have truly bought into, buy way of land tile structure. 

 

The "everyone else is doing it so it must be ok" mentality is well and truly alive here, which does not necessarily mean it's a wise purchase. 

[NamKangMan]

On 11/4/2018 at 1:46 AM, Mysterion said:

Goodluck dude.

 

Keep sleeping well and hoping that the “legal” structure doesn’t collapse on you or your better half doesnt have a change of mind.

 

????

 

I don't know what legal "structure" you have for your property, but I can guarantee you it is not "freehold" ownership in the manner that you think it is / should be. 

 

No matter what "structure" is set up, a foreigner can not own 100% of the the land, in their name, that any building sits on here.

[Mysterion]

48 minutes ago, NamKangMan said:

 

I don't know what legal "structure" you have for your property, but I can guarantee you it is not "freehold" ownership in the manner that you think it is / should be. 

 

No matter what "structure" is set up, a foreigner can not own 100% of the the land, in their name, that any building sits on here.

Give it a rest man.

 

We already debunked your misunderstandings/misinformation a couple of weeks ago.

 

You need to focus on the only things you know best...bar girls and gambling.

[xylophone]

38 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

Give it a rest man.

 

We already debunked your misunderstandings/misinformation a couple of weeks ago.

 

You need to focus on the only things you know best...bar girls and gambling.

On the contrary the posts supporting NKMs actually debunked your beliefs and you even acquiesced to my post regarding the meaning of freehold here being misleading.

 

Leave it alone as it has become obvious over many threads and posts where your interests lie and no need to insult a poster if he disagrees with you, esp if he is right.

[Mysterion]

9 minutes ago, xylophone said:

On the contrary the posts supporting NKMs actually debunked your beliefs and you even acquiesced to my post regarding the meaning of freehold here being misleading.

 

Leave it alone as it has become obvious over many threads and posts where your interests lie and no need to insult a poster if he disagrees with you, esp if he is right.

Give it a rest xylo. Once again, you are entangling yourself up in the faslhoods that NKM attempts to spread. You argue for the sake of arguing, rather than presenting anything reasonable. Rather immature of you, especially at your age.

 

You are also insinuating NKM Is somehow a deviant because he is an expert on bar girls and gambling. How dare you!

 

Who made you the judge of NKM’s personal activities? You may not agree with NKM’s personal activities, but as long as he does not do anything illegal or spread false information, you should live and let live.

 

BTW, nobody acquiesced to anything. Re-read the previous posts again if you don’t understand them.

[xylophone]

34 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

Give it a rest xylo. Once again, you are entangling yourself up in the faslhoods that NKM attempts to spread. You argue for the sake of arguing, rather than presenting anything reasonable. Rather immature of you, especially at your age.

 

Who made you the judge of NKM’s personal activities? You may not agree with NKM’s personal activities, but as long as he does not do anything illegal or spread false information, you should live and let live.

 

BTW, nobody acquiesced to anything. Re-read the previous posts again if you don’t understand them.

Pretty clear to the intelligent readers here but you seem to have missed the point though, so the following should help you...…...but then again perhaps the name given to you by another poster is correct!

 

NKM in response to your post re freehold:

 

It is You who is spreading "misinformation." 

 

YOU use the word "freehold" to describe foreign property ownership here.  It is a word that is misleading, particularly to westerners.  A foreigner CAN NOT own land here in the "freehold" sense of the word used to describe western property ownership.  That condo doesn't float in mid air.  It sits on 51% Thai owned land, the same as every other foreign owned property.

 

He followed with: "The condo sits on land that can not be owned by a foreigner in the same way a house does.  Now, is that correct?  It's a yes or no answer.

"Foreigners owning a foreign freehold condo own their proportionate share(up to 49% of the units)" - since when is 49% "freehold?"

 

Then NKM also said:  I have posted the Wiki meaning of the word "freehold." 

  Here's the Webster dictionary meaning.

  https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/freehold

 

Plus others quoted in the post.

   

NOTE: "Permanent and absolute tenure of land or property" A maximum 49% share of land, with a 30 year usage land certificate IS NOT "permanent and absolute" - is it????

 

You will see all links state there is no time limit on ownership.  As I said, condos don't float in mid are.  They are built on a plot of land.  That land ownership, in any form, IS NOT freehold for foreigners.

 

My reply: Technically NKM was right when he said, "A foreigner can own 100% of the "strata" - the air space.  Like I said, they can do what they want in their four walls.  However, it sits on land that is 51% owned by a Thai, or Thai's, and you think that is "freehold" as in western property ownership "freehold."  Give me break".

 

I stated:  And his point was that freehold, as we understand it in the Western world, does not have the same meaning here in Thailand, so for many expats what they think they are getting, they are not. In some respects it could possibly be viewed as misleading advertising especially if it is aimed at the Western/farang market.

 

In common law jurisdictions (e.g. England and Wales, United States, Australia,[1] Canada, and Ireland), a freehold is the common ownership of real property, or land,[a] and ownership of it must be of an indeterminate duration. If the time of ownership can be fixed and determined, it cannot be a freehold. 

 

Also in my post I hypothesised as to what could be viewed as another angle in the "freehold ownership" statement, when you look at it again in a different way, but I did not state that this was the case, only that it could be viewed that way – – an alternative way to look at the NKM argument, which I believe holds water.

 

And again I stated that if the 49% farang shareholders wanted to claim their part of the land should the condominium block be demolished, they would have no chance as land ownership for them is forbidden in most cases.

 

In summary, freehold here in Thailand has a different meaning and a potentially different outcome to that which is understood by most farangs……..and that was the main point.

 

And your reply to me was: Yes, you are correct that the foreign freehold condo structure is a slightly “different” model from what’s typical in the west. 

 

So you were in agreement with my statement in which I (and NKM) was trying to prove re freehold here is not the same as we westerners know it......acquiesced in fact.

 

As for this piece of pathetic posting....childish, grow up.  "You are also insinuating NKM Is somehow a deviant because he is an expert on bar girls and gambling. How dare you!" 

 

Having proven my point I will take my leave and as another (and others) have said, "bye, bye, condo troll".

 

 

 

[Mysterion]

20 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Pretty clear to the intelligent readers here but you seem to have missed the point though, so the following should help you...…...but then again perhaps the name given to you by another poster is correct!

 

NKM in response to your post re freehold:

 

 

 

It is You who is spreading "misinformation." 

 

 

 

YOU use the word "freehold" to describe foreign property ownership here.  It is a word that is misleading, particularly to westerners.  A foreigner CAN NOT own land here in the "freehold" sense of the word used to describe western property ownership.  That condo doesn't float in mid air.  It sits on 51% Thai owned land, the same as every other foreign owned property.

 

 

 

He followed with: "The condo sits on land that can not be owned by a foreigner in the same way a house does.  Now, is that correct?  It's a yes or no answer.

 

"Foreigners owning a foreign freehold condo own their proportionate share(up to 49% of the units)" - since when is 49% "freehold?"

 

 

 

Then NKM also said:  I have posted the Wiki meaning of the word "freehold." 

 

  Here's the Webster dictionary meaning.

 

  https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/freehold

 

 

 

Plus others quoted in the post.

 

   

 

NOTE: "Permanent and absolute tenure of land or property" A maximum 49% share of land, with a 30 year usage land certificate IS NOT "permanent and absolute" - is it????

 

 

 

You will see all links state there is no time limit on ownership.  As I said, condos don't float in mid are.  They are built on a plot of land.  That land ownership, in any form, IS NOT freehold for foreigners.

 

 

 

My reply: Technically NKM was right when he said, "A foreigner can own 100% of the "strata" - the air space.  Like I said, they can do what they want in their four walls.  However, it sits on land that is 51% owned by a Thai, or Thai's, and you think that is "freehold" as in western property ownership "freehold."  Give me break".

 

 

 

I stated:  And his point was that freehold, as we understand it in the Western world, does not have the same meaning here in Thailand, so for many expats what they think they are getting, they are not. In some respects it could possibly be viewed as misleading advertising especially if it is aimed at the Western/farang market.

 

 

 

In common law jurisdictions (e.g. England and Wales, United States, Australia,[1] Canada, and Ireland), a freehold is the common ownership of real property, or land,[a] and ownership of it must be of an indeterminate duration. If the time of ownership can be fixed and determined, it cannot be a freehold. 

 

 

 

Also in my post I hypothesised as to what could be viewed as another angle in the "freehold ownership" statement, when you look at it again in a different way, but I did not state that this was the case, only that it could be viewed that way – – an alternative way to look at the NKM argument, which I believe holds water.

 

 

 

And again I stated that if the 49% farang shareholders wanted to claim their part of the land should the condominium block be demolished, they would have no chance as land ownership for them is forbidden in most cases.

 

 

 

In summary, freehold here in Thailand has a different meaning and a potentially different outcome to that which is understood by most farangs……..and that was the main point.

 

 

 

And your reply to me was: Yes, you are correct that the foreign freehold condo structure is a slightly “different” model from what’s typical in the west. 

 

 

So you were in agreement with my statement in which I (and NKM) was trying to prove re freehold here is not the same as we westerners know it......acquiesced in fact.

 

As for this piece of pathetic posting....childish, grow up.  "You are also insinuating NKM Is somehow a deviant because he is an expert on bar girls and gambling. How dare you!" 

 

Having proven my point I will take my leave and as another (and others) have said, "bye, bye, condo troll".

 

 

 

 

Thanks for reposting what I said. If you would stop your blind hate for facts, you would easily see that i only acknowledged a “slight difference in structure that had no significant real world Impact”. A far cry from agreeing with your and NKMs willful falsehoods.

 

On behalf of all of us who value accurate and balanced information, thank you for taking “leave”.

 

In addition, we hope to never see you or NKM post your nonsense faslehoods regarding real estate here, or elsewhere on TV again.

 

Finally, in the name of decency, please do us all favor and keep your offensive racially-biased(to put it lightly) and judgemental comments about NKM or others confined to the patong wake thread where it seems to be tolerated.

 

 

 

 

 

[stuarty]

Ahem...  :  Anything new or interesting in Phuket?

[NamKangMan]

9 minutes ago, stuarty said:

Ahem...  :  Anything new or interesting in Phuket?

 

No. Just the same foreign real estate scammers talking up the market and trying to sell apples to people who want oranges.  ????

[steelepulse]

11 minutes ago, stuarty said:

Ahem...  :  Anything new or interesting in Phuket?

I took an alternative route to the airport yesterday and passed by Red Mountain golf course and got stuck on some back streets in Koh Kaew.  Not sure it's interesting, but there is a hell of a lot of new houses and condos being built. Unbelievable, so either there are a lot of dumb developers with deep pockets, or someone is buying these thousands of new units that have popped up in land that isn't very desirable, unless you want to be close to BIS or the marinas there.

 

 

[Mysterion]

3 hours ago, stuarty said:

Ahem...  :  Anything new or interesting in Phuket?

Hehehe

 

Not much has significantly changed unless you are into new malls, new hotels, and new condos, which are popping-up here and there.

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Thanks for reposting what I said. If you would stop your blind hate for facts, you would easily see that i only acknowledged a “slight difference in structure that had no significant real world Impact”. A far cry from agreeing with your and NKMs willful falsehoods.

 

On behalf of all of us who value accurate and balanced information, thank you for taking “leave”.

 

In addition, we hope to never see you or NKM post your nonsense faslehoods regarding real estate here, or elsewhere on TV again.

 

Finally, in the name of decency, please do us all favor and keep your offensive racially-biased(to put it lightly) and judgemental comments about NKM or others confined to the patong wake thread where it seems to be tolerated.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh dear you do have a problem reading and understanding don't you, but there again what can one expect from a real estate scammer.

 

It's obvious that you have an IQ level much lower than mine, and I don't want to get dragged down to your level, but I will reiterate for you that the freehold term you are using does not agree with the definition of the word or what is understood by farangs (as you agreed).

 

Obviously I can't let your misinformation go by unchallenged, so it is bye bye for now until your next load of rubbish is posted.

 

Beware of condo tout spouting forth nonsense!

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, steelepulse said:

Not sure it's interesting, but there is a hell of a lot of new houses and condos being built. Unbelievable, so either there are a lot of dumb developers with deep pockets, or someone is buying these thousands of new units that have popped up in land that isn't very desirable, unless you want to be close to BIS or the marinas there.

As I and others have posted, this continual building makes no sense esp when so much remains unsold and empty. 

 

Cheap money is a major cause but then again it was also a major cause of a couple of market collapses in recent times, but then again those who don't learn from history are doomed to make the same mistakes again.  

 

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Oh dear you do have a problem reading and understanding don't you, but there again what can one expect from a real estate scammer.

 

It's obvious that you have an IQ level much lower than mine, and I don't want to get dragged down to your level, but I will reiterate for you that the freehold term you are using does not agree with the definition of the word or what is understood by farangs (as you agreed).

 

Obviously I can't let your misinformation go by unchallenged, so it is bye bye for now until your next load of rubbish is posted.

 

Beware of condo tout spouting forth nonsense!

As i have already informed you, real estate laws are different in every country of the world, to one degree or another.

 

If you are uncomfortable with foreign freehold condos in thailand, you can be a good old sport and continue as a tenant in your soi nanai palace.

 

Yet again, you told us you would “leave” this discussion. But yet again(for the love of zeus!) you can’t keep a promise for more than an hour. This tells us allot about your character.

 

Again. on behalf of the majority of users who desire accuracy or balanced opinions, please leave the real estate discussion to the mature informed posters, for once and for all. 

 

 

[xylophone]

13 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Yet again, you told us you would “leave” this discussion. But yet again(for the love of zeus!) you can’t keep a promise for more than an hour. This tells us allot about your character.

No I said bye bye condo troll, as a way of signing off from your post, not leave the discussion to those spreading misinformation, ie you!

 

Please try to understand as this tells us a lot about your level of intelligence.

 

 

13 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Again. on behalf of the majority of users who desire accuracy or balanced opinions, please leave the real estate discussion to the mature informed posters, for once and for all. 

If there are posters who desire accuracy and the correct information they certainly would not want to listen to someone who extols the virtues of "foreign freehold condos in Thailand" knowing full well that they are not even close to the definition of "freehold" as most farangs understand it, so are being misled by those who have a vested interest in selling them.

 

I'm sure that the mature and informed posters would like to know that before they buy here. So here's an idea for you...……..before you start any conversation regarding condos etc here, why don't you preface you post with: "Please be aware that the term Freehold Condos in Thailand does not meet the definition of the word freehold and will not offer the same benefits or protection".

 

13 hours ago, Mysterion said:

As i have already informed you, real estate laws are different in every country of the world, to one degree or another.

You ONLY agreed that the definition of Freehold was different when you were found out by myself and others; this after many posts of discussion whereby you denied it.

 

Now be a good boy and detract from your condo trolling on here and go about your business of selling to the unsuspecting public.

 

So getting back on track...........those wishing to know if there is anything new or interesting in Phuket can rest assured that the condo touts are here, so nothing has changed in that regard.

[xylophone]

14 hours ago, Mysterion said:

If you are uncomfortable with foreign freehold condos in Thailand

OPEN OFFER TO MYSTERION:

 

As you obviously know I am uncomfortable with the way in which these things are advertised and sold and with good reason. I have also owned and sold 2 houses here, and was a contracted CEO for a property investment company in Australia, so I know something about property and sales processes.

 

And I was always a stickler for complete and utter honesty and transparency in all of my and my staff's dealing with clients.

 

However selling condos is what you do here, your business, and I have to recognise that and not try to overlay my sales processes on those you use, for better or for worse. 

 

I will therefore desist from posting derogatory comments on your posts unless I see a glaring "mis-statement". This will save my and your time, and give other posters a break from our ongoing "feud".

 

Hopefully you will agree to this "olive branch".

[NamKangMan]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

No I said bye bye condo troll, as a way of signing off from your post, not leave the discussion to those spreading misinformation, ie you!

 

Please try to understand as this tells us a lot about your level of intelligence.

 

 

If there are posters who desire accuracy and the correct information they certainly would not want to listen to someone who extols the virtues of "foreign freehold condos in Thailand" knowing full well that they are not even close to the definition of "freehold" as most farangs understand it, so are being misled by those who have a vested interest in selling them.

 

I'm sure that the mature and informed posters would like to know that before they buy here. So here's an idea for you...……..before you start any conversation regarding condos etc here, why don't you preface you post with: "Please be aware that the term Freehold Condos in Thailand does not meet the definition of the word freehold and will not offer the same benefits or protection".

 

You ONLY agreed that the definition of Freehold was different when you were found out by myself and others; this after many posts of discussion whereby you denied it.

 

Now be a good boy and detract from your condo trolling on here and go about your business of selling to the unsuspecting public.

 

So getting back on track...........those wishing to know if there is anything new or interesting in Phuket can rest assured that the condo touts are here, so nothing has changed in that regard.

 

"knowing full well that they are not even close to the definition of "freehold" as most farangs understand it, so are being misled by those who have a vested interest in selling them." - this is the very essence of the debate, and this comment summarizes it perfectly.

 

I have posted several links leading to the definition of "freehold."  That definition can not be disputed, and DOES NOT describe the foreign ownership of land in Thailand.

 

I have conceded a foreign owner can do what he likes within the four walls of their condo, but owning 49% of the land, at best, the condo block sits on, DOES NOT amount to "freehold" ownership. 

 

Thailand DOES NOT offer 100% "freehold" ownership to foreigners.  It's as simple as that.

 

The use of the term "foreign freehold" by real estate agents here is a contradiction, and is misleading.