Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[offset]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

It seems Australia no longer issues that visa.  https://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/punjabi/en/article/2018/06/01/australia-permanently-closes-visa-new-applicants

That is the wrong visa if you want to know about a investor retirement visa look here https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/visa-1/405- it also says it is the only retirement visa available

[Russell17au]

19 hours ago, Will27 said:

Australia does have a retirement visa.

It's a subclass 405 visa.

 

If you're going to compare apples and oranges, at least once a partner gets a spouse visa in Oz, it allows them to work,

have access to Medicare and pretty much lasts forever with no such things as 90 day reports etc.

 

I reckon heaps of expats would gladly pay the 165 680 Baht for an extension if they received the same deal that Thai's get

in Australia.

A 405 is not a retirement visa as such. It is an Investors Retirement Visa and you must invest a minimum of AUD$750k in major ares or AUD$500k in regional ares and that money must be invested for a minimum of 4 years. So it is not a retirement visa like the retirement extension here in Thailand

[offset]

9 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Hang on, I thought you said it's not a visa?

I said it was not a permeant visa

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, offset said:

That is the wrong visa if you want to know about a investor retirement visa look here https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/visa-1/405- it also says it is the only retirement visa available

You need to read a little better. It is the same sub class 405 visa, and it also say it in now closed for new applicants, and that's on the link you just posted.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

Why should consulate staff spend time checking tax returns? I for one haven't filed one for 15 years, and my income is derived from several sources, not something a Thai clerk could check in 5 minutes. Far simpler and easier for everyone to have the 800K in the bank or show the 65K paid into an account every month. If you can't manage that then I guess it won't be easy to retire to Thailand.

I am not asking them to check tax returns. All they have to do is look at the bottom line of tax returns, the rest is an official ATO document. They are too lazy to do even that.

I can do the 800K in the bank easily, thank you. That's not the point I was making. You don't understand, which is what I have come to expect from you.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, Russell17au said:

A 405 is not a retirement visa as such. It is an Investors Retirement Visa and you must invest a minimum of AUD$750k in major ares or AUD$500k in regional ares and that money must be invested for a minimum of 4 years. So it is not a retirement visa like the retirement extension here in Thailand

The point is now moot, that visa is no longer available according to the Aussie government website.

[ubonjoe]

A post flaming a member has been removed. Please keep the discussion civil.

[giddyup]

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I am not asking them to check tax returns. All they have to do is look at the bottom line of tax returns, the rest is an official ATO document. They are too lazy to do even that.

I can do the 800K in the bank easily, thank you. That's not the point I was making. You don't understand, which is what I have come to expect from you.

And as I said, not everyone files a tax return, I haven't for 15 years, but your post is confusing, you say "I am not asking them to check tax returns. All they have to do is look at the bottom line of tax returns"  What exactly are you asking them to check? Not sure anyone can understand that.

Edited November 4, 2018 by giddyup

[dennis123]

30 minutes ago, giddyup said:

They don't want them out, they want them to show the financial amounts that immigration require. I would hazard a guess that most falangs have bought a house that's in their GF or wife's name, so they would have to get their say-so before it could be sold. You're right though, there's plenty of houses for sale on the darkside so you wouldn't want to be in a hurry to sell.

Yeah but it sounds strange to me, is it so easy to fool the embassy to get this letter, don't they check anything or are people forging these documents on such massive scale to warrant these measures?

[giddyup]

Just now, dennis123 said:

Yeah but it sounds strange to me, is it so easy to fool the embassy to get this letter, don't they check anything or are people forging these documents on such massive scale to warrant these measures?

The embassy was only witnessing a statement, not verifying income.

[Russell17au]

Just now, dennis123 said:

Yeah but it sounds strange to me, is it so easy to fool the embassy to get this letter, don't they check anything or are people forging these documents on such massive scale to warrant these measures?

With the Australian Statutory Declaration the notoriety is only to witness your signature on the document and the contents of that document is none of their business, but a false declaration does carry a 4 year prison sentence and a criminal record

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

And as I said, not everyone files a tax return, I haven't for 15 years, but your post is confusing, you say "I am not asking them to check tax returns. All they have to do is look at the bottom line of tax returns"  What exactly are you asking them to check?

 I am asking them to look at the bottom line figure from the ATO, and compare it with the figure I have put in the stat dec. It's not rocket science - all they have to do is multiply by 12 to confirm the stat dec is true.

Perhaps that's beyond their mental capacity.

I fail to see the relevance of your void of tax returns to this thread. I assume you have other methods of establishing the 65,000 baht requirement.

[Russell17au]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

 I am asking them to look at the bottom line figure from the ATO, and compare it with the figure I have put in the stat dec. It's not rocket science - all they have to do is multiply by 12 to confirm the stat dec is true.

Perhaps that's beyond their mental capacity.

I fail to see the relevance of your void of tax returns to this thread. I assume you have other methods of establishing the 65,000 baht requirement.

It is easy to verify your Tax assessment notice and also your Government pension documents because both of these documents are Australian government documents and they are secured documents which cannot be altered.

[Will27]

14 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

It is easy to verify your Tax assessment notice and also your Government pension documents because both of these documents are Australian government documents and they are secured documents which cannot be altered.

But as giddyup has said, not everyone lodges tax returns or is soley on the pension.

 

This would cause further confusion as the embassy would only be able to verify certain people's incomes.

 

It's not and shouldn't be in their job description IMO.

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, Will27 said:

But as giddyup has said, not everyone lodges tax returns or is soley on the pension.

 

This would cause further confusion as the embassy would only be able to verify certain people's incomes.

 

It's not and shouldn't be in their job description IMO.

Should it be in the foreign countries immigration officers job description.

If giddyup is receiving any income in Australia it is automatically reported to the Australian Tax Office unless he is not an Australian tax paying citizen. All Superannuation funds, banks, investment companies must under Commonwealth law report all money that is paid to Australian citizens to the Australian Tax Office, That is why you must lodge your tax file number with all banking, superannuation and investment organizations.

[giddyup]

33 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

 I am asking them to look at the bottom line figure from the ATO, and compare it with the figure I have put in the stat dec. It's not rocket science - all they have to do is multiply by 12 to confirm the stat dec is true.

Perhaps that's beyond their mental capacity.

I fail to see the relevance of your void of tax returns to this thread. I assume you have other methods of establishing the 65,000 baht requirement.

I make life simple for everyone, I have 800K in a fixed deposit account, never a hassle in 9 years. I understand that not everyone can comply this way, but Thailand makes the rules, so why expect them or the embassy to change to suit your particular situation?

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Should it be in the foreign countries immigration officers job description.

If giddyup is receiving any income in Australia it is automatically reported to the Australian Tax Office unless he is not an Australian tax paying citizen. All Superannuation funds, banks, investment companies must under Commonwealth law report all money that is paid to Australian citizens to the Australian Tax Office, That is why you must lodge your tax file number with all banking, superannuation and investment organizations.

Haven't submitted a tax return for at least 15 years, in fact since I retired.

[Will27]

11 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Should it be in the foreign countries immigration officers job description.

If giddyup is receiving any income in Australia it is automatically reported to the Australian Tax Office unless he is not an Australian tax paying citizen. All Superannuation funds, banks, investment companies must under Commonwealth law report all money that is paid to Australian citizens to the Australian Tax Office, That is why you must lodge your tax file number with all banking, superannuation and investment organizations.

No, I wouldn't have thought so.

As stated, some don't lodge tax returns.

 

Way too time consuming IMO.

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Haven't submitted a tax return for at least 15 years, in fact since I retired.

That means that you are either not an Australian citizen or you do not have any money invested in Australia and you have notified the Australian Tax Office that you no longer need to submit a tax return.

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, Will27 said:

No, I wouldn't have thought so.

As stated, some don't lodge tax returns.

 

Way too time consuming IMO.

I did get a bill from the ATO last year that said I owed them money from 2010, money from the sale of a house, only $650, but they said they wouldn't pursue the matter, obviously because I was living overseas and it would have been to hard for them to recover the money. I paid it anyway and asked them if there was any money outstanding that I owed, the reply said no.

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, Will27 said:

No, I wouldn't have thought so.

As stated, some don't lodge tax returns.

 

Way too time consuming IMO.

Lodging an Australian Tax return way too time consuming? Let me see, my 2017-2018 tax return whilst living in Thailand took me approximately 10 minutes to do online because it is already filled in for you by the tax office and it is only if you need to change anything like your address or banking details that it might take you a whole extra 5 minutes. I would love to see all those that are also cheating on the Australian tax system get caught.

[giddyup]

5 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

That means that you are either not an Australian citizen or you do not have any money invested in Australia and you have notified the Australian Tax Office that you no longer need to submit a tax return.

I am an Australian citizen and I do have money invested in Australian banks, but they can't actually force me to lodge a tax return, and according to the ATO I owe them nothing, and that includes any fines that might be levied for a non-return.

[zydeco]

21 hours ago, sfokevin said:

Cruel!... Really?..

How would a Thai fare visa wise trying to come and stay long term in your country?... 

There are lots of Thais in California in sanctuary cities, where municipal and state agencies and government have gone to great lengths to protect them.  Many have driver's licenses, run businesses, work, go to school, qualify for in-state college tuition, rent apartments, and even buy houses without any repercussions whatsoever. They can even get a taxpayer ID and file for the EITC, according to this GAO report: https://www.gao.gov/products/GGD-95-27. Meanwhile, members of congress and the US senate will constantly agitate for an illegal alien amnesty that not only will give them permanent residency but a path to citizenship and rights to social security, medicaid, affirmative action preferences.  Sounds pretty good to me.  Meanwhile, we get this overbearing crackdown on foreign retirees in Thailand.  All because some nitwit somewhere decided to mess around with a system that was largely working, fair, and whose income letters probably had a minimum level of abuse.

[sambum]

18 hours ago, HappyAndRich said:

No, just barely surviving.

Bull poo! You've been TELLING people to just put 800k in a bank to get their retirement extension as if it's the easiest thing in the world to do. In my neck of the woods back in the UK you would be a farmer - never seen a poor one, but they'll never admit to doing OK, just use words like yours!

 

[Ban Phe Dezza]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

Gee, that's funny because I was responding to a claim that a person could get a retirement visa for Australia and there is no such visa and what I described there was what I had to do to get my Thai wife her residents visa to Australia (Partner (provisional) visa 309 and her Partner (permanent) visa 100) when I first applied for it for her in January 2013. You should really learn to read what I was quoting to which was a claim about getting a retirement visa for Australia.

Not trying to side step The Issue however any idea how Australia would treat a Pensioner  (Thai Wife)  who married a Thai, now has a couple of Children, Dual nationals, so I would imagine only would need a Visa for their Mum I have a neighbour in that situation . certainly it is highly unlikely that he can stay here, Except by using an Agent.

 

[sambum]

7 hours ago, HappyAndRich said:

Only 3 million? That´s barely enough to pay for a simple operation at a descent hospital.

Barely surviving? Bull poo!

[sambum]

6 hours ago, HappyAndRich said:

I said a good plan. That is the one that is solid and not depend on small changes.

"small changes"? I would hardly call the withdrawal of "Proof of Income letters" small changes when it has such a drastic effect on so many people's lives!

[Russell17au]

2 minutes ago, Ban Phe Dezza said:

Not trying to side step The Issue however any idea how Australia would treat a Pensioner  (Thai Wife)  who married a Thai, now has a couple of Children, Dual nationals, so I would imagine only would need a Visa for their Mum I have a neighbour in that situation . certainly it is highly unlikely that he can stay here, Except by using an Agent.

 

Those children are dual citizens and it would be easy to go to the Australian embassy in Bangkok and apply for Australian Passports for them. He would need to take their birth certificates with him to prove that he is the father of them and they would not need any visa's to enter Australia. Yes, he would need to get a spousal visa (a subclass 309 (temporary) for 2 years and then a subclass 100 (permanent))for his wife and that will cost him AUD$7160 and can take up to 17 months to be approved, but if they apply here in Thailand then she must be in Thailand when it is approved otherwise he can take her to Australia on a 3 month tourist visa to start with and then come back here for a 2 week holiday and apply for a 6 or 12 month tourist visa. He needs to open an online account with the Immigration department and his email address is listed on the applcation and they will send an email when the decision has been made

[Jai Dee]

32 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I am an Australian citizen and I do have money invested in Australian banks, but they can't actually force me to lodge a tax return, and according to the ATO I owe them nothing, and that includes any fines that might be levied for a non-return.

Please correct me if I am wrong but to the best of my knowledge there is no reason to lodge an annual tax return unless you want some of your tax returned... ie. a refund.

 

Sorry to go off-topic but as it is linked to the income verification process I thought it would be worthwhile clarifying the issue.

[totally thaied up]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

It is easy to verify your Tax assessment notice and also your Government pension documents because both of these documents are Australian government documents and they are secured documents which cannot be altered.

Those Government pension documents I could alter picture perfect in Photoshop in about 5 minutes. Print the document, scan with a high-resolution scanner, do the 'fix' and then presto, print out on a high-end printer the altered document. Seals are easy to acquire as well. Years ago when I did a visa extension using my earnings, I took my pension documents and my dividends to the IO in Chiang Mai. The officer looked at my earnings and told me he would only use my Stat Dec as he had NO WAY to verify that these documents pinned to the Stat Dec where TRUE. It showed on my portability Documents my pension MAYBE paid while I am out of the country and he pointed that out. That was the point where my wife told me for my next extension, we would use cash in the bank as she saw this coming to a crashing end.

 

If you are thinking this matter is only being spoken about on this forum, my wife has told me on her Facebook page and other Thai forums, Thai wives are worried about what is going to happen to them. Some are saying they are worried about what is going to happen to there husbands that support their families. So, it is just not us talking about this, but Thais as well.

 

As for those not doing tax-returns, the best thing to do it go to MYGOV and do a Non-Lodgement return each year. Simple as that and the ATO will always remain happy.