Unwanted foreigners -or simply underfunded?

[Brunolem]

5 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

I agree with you.

 

Also, as we age and medical insurance becomes a major factor and bar girls ( for those who grow up ) becomes less important, then I am sure many from Europe will like the climate and pace of life in such as Spain, Portugal, parts of Italy, and even other places such as Croatia or the Czech Republic, which are very affordable. All of a sudden, healthcare goes way up the list in many peoples thinking.

 

Not too far from their homes in Europe, quite good and affordable health care, with a flight back home in easy reach for those who have kept a home base in their native country.

 

In South East Asia, I would definitely opt for Vietnam after Thailand. I, like many others, stay here because I have roots here and family ties. I am no shrinking violet, and if push came to shove, I will uproot as many have before me.

 

 

if that bubble bursts and goes South, so will I.

 

 

The problem with having Thai families is that they don't change country as easily as we do, especially with children still in school age.

 

Vietnam may be nice but the weather certainly is not!

 

Located in typhoon alley with the Philippines on the other side, both countries are hit full frontal by anything that the Pacific throws at them, and that's a lot, and that's constantly increasing...

 

[jak2002003]

21 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

 

In South East Asia, I would definitely opt for Vietnam after Thailand. I, like many others, stay here because I have roots here and family ties. I am no shrinking violet, and if push came to shove, I will uproot as many have before me.

 

 

if that bubble bursts with the Thai connections and family and heads South, then so will I.

 

 

how can you retire in Vietnam?  They don't offer retirement visas do they?  Same in Burma and Cambodia.  If you went there in your old age then you would have to keep leaving the country every few weeks to extend you visa.. and I am sure that would be annoying after a year or so.

[balo]

how can you retire in Vietnam?  They don't offer retirement visas do they?  Same in Burma and Cambodia.  If you went there in your old age then you would have to keep leaving the country every few weeks to extend you visa.. and I am sure that would be annoying after a year or so.

That's completely wrong information. You'll get a 1 year visa in Cambo , the fee is around $200. They call it a business visa, but it doesnt matter if you have a business or not. And in Cambo 1 year is 1 year, no need to report every 90 days. I would think you can get a similar visa in Vietnam.

 

[The Deerhunter]

7 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

3 embassies announced stopping letters. 74 didn't... 

So far!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Deerhunter]

7 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Not so easy...

 

First, there is the one way flow of currencies out of the countries.

That may not seem much, but if you consider 2 million retirees migrating abroad with an average pension of 2,000 euros, we are talking about 4 billion euros leaving the country every month, or almost 50 billions for the whole year...not small potatoes....

 

As for the medical services, don't dream!

As soon as they get something serious they fly back home direct to their hospital paid by their social security.

 

Meanwhile, in big and expensive European cities, retirees are the only ones who can buy real estate cash, generally after selling the home they paid during their working life.

Younger people, even with good jobs, have not the means to buy mid-range properties at rates between 8,000 and 12,000 euros per sqm.

In Paris, a great deal of the mid-level transactions are made between retirees, the top being as usual the domain of Qataris and other middles Eastern potentates.

 

All in all, there is little incentive to let retirees move abroad, except maybe for those who are in the very low pension category, who will provide very little to the country, and may end up asking for public assistance.

 

Several people are complaining in TVF that if they go home after living abroad for some time they are simply not allowed to have free medical services.  I think it was UK and and some Euro block countries.  Aussie is playing games with capital gains tax for overseas retirees selling the home back home.

[Brunolem]

25 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Several people are complaining in TVF that if they go home after living abroad for some time they are simply not allowed to have free medical services.  I think it was UK and and some Euro block countries.  Aussie is playing games with capital gains tax for overseas retirees selling the home back home.

It depends whether they are officially retired or not.

When retired, they benefit from their country's medical coverage (social security) as long as they seek treatment in their country.

 

I am not aware of limitations on travel for retirees, who would lose their coverage because of too much travelling...maybe in some countries...

 

If they are not retired, then they need to come back home and settle for a certain number of months before being again able to benefit from their country's healthcare coverage.

 

Obviously, in case of emergency this system won't cut it, hence the need to have a local insurance, or to not be sick...ever while leaving abroad...

[Mike Teavee]

43 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Several people are complaining in TVF that if they go home after living abroad for some time they are simply not allowed to have free medical services.  I think it was UK and and some Euro block countries.  Aussie is playing games with capital gains tax for overseas retirees selling the home back home.

(Technically) You lose access to the NHS after being overseas for 6 months (either Blair or Cameron tried to reduce this to 3 but was overruled) BUT if you're returning to the UK to "Re-Settle" then you are immediately entitled to it again.

 

Social Support (Benefits) are a bit different as you can only start to claim these after 3 months but you should be entitled to the increased UK State Pension straight away.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Mike Teavee

[Scouse123]

2 hours ago, balo said:

That's completely wrong information. You'll get a 1 year visa in Cambo , the fee is around $200. They call it a business visa, but it doesnt matter if you have a business or not. And in Cambo 1 year is 1 year, no need to report every 90 days. I would think you can get a similar visa in Vietnam.

 

 

Hi Balo,

 

Yeah, near enough. About $270 for a year in Cambodia. They call it now ordinary visa as opposed to a tourist visa. You get one on the way in for a month and then extend it forever ( 1 year but you keep extending without having to leave ) at a travel agent. No 90-day report and no bank has to have large sums of cash in it.

 

Vietnam has easy ways to extend and then there are business sponsorship visa deals etc to stay in the country for long periods of time. Furthermore, Vietnam is getting easier in many ways such as doing business and foreign ownership of property and businesses.

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

(Technically) You lose access to the NHS after being overseas for 6 months (either Blair or Cameron tried to reduce this to 3 but was overruled) BUT if you're returning to the UK to "Re-Settle" then you are immediately entitled to it again.

 

Social Support (Benefits) are a bit different as you can only start to claim these after 3 months but you should be entitled to the increased UK State Pension straight away.

 

To claim the full state pension, you must have been paid up with your NIC contributions.

 

You cannot disappear to Thailand for 40 years or whatever, and go back and get a full state pension unless you have paid in.

[ericthai]

On 11/4/2018 at 4:55 AM, thequietman said:

I am really tired of people like you who profess that foreigners are a burden to Thailand.

Give me the list where foreigners are a burden please?

 

We take nothing and give everything. no matter how small. I pay my taxes ( more than a Thai citizen), I pay company taxes ( more than most Thai citizens), I pay road tax on my truck and bike for the use of the roads.

 

So, tell me what burden the foreigner is to the Thai's?

 

We can't own any land, we can't set up a company that is in competition to a Thai one because of the same statement over and over again since I came here, 'Thai's are not yet ready to compete." They weren't ready 14 years ago and are still not ready! Come on.

 

I have no issues coming up with the money needed to stay but I do have the other foreigners backs here who have family and kids. Maybe a bit of reciprocation by our own countries regarding Thailand's immigration policy are needed. 

 

Reporting every 90 days! Last time I seen that was in the second world war and we know how that went. Why is it that I need 400.000 baht a year to feed my family when a larger Thai family can survive on much, much less?

 

If as a Thai, you want to come to my country and be allowed to settle there, get residency when married, get health care once living there a period of time and get social security after a period if you come on hard times, then the least you can let me do, is to be able to stay with my family and get residence with relative ease as I am married to a Thai citizen.

 

If wife dies tomorrow, I need to leave. What the hell is going on there?

get permanent residency 

[Rhys]

It is their games and they change the rules to suit the house... what is the big deal, we all know this and still stay..

[Mike Teavee]

12 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

To claim the full state pension, you must have been paid up with your NIC contributions.

 

You cannot disappear to Thailand for 40 years or whatever, and go back and get a full state pension unless you have paid in.

Nobody is suggesting you can, but you need to pay <deleted> all in & you can get full access to NHS.

 

You robbin scousers should know that [I'm joking, I'm a Warrington lad ???? ]

 

 

[jak2002003]

15 hours ago, balo said:

That's completely wrong information. You'll get a 1 year visa in Cambo , the fee is around $200. They call it a business visa, but it doesnt matter if you have a business or not. And in Cambo 1 year is 1 year, no need to report every 90 days. I would think you can get a similar visa in Vietnam.

 

You might want to look into that in a bit more detail.  I don't think you have done any research on that... before you say I have completely wrong information.

 

The maximus length of the business visa in Vietnam is 6 months.  It also offers NO retirement visas.  You can get a 5 year long term visa you have to report for to get checked up at the immigration every 3 months.  Also this have very high requirements to get… including having a wife or child in Vietnam, or even being born there and having international passport!  You have to get an exit stamp every 6 months also with this visa.

 

So its not as easy as you made out recommending Vietnam as a place to go and retire easier than Thailand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thequietman]

9 hours ago, ericthai said:

get permanent residency 

Pay out almost 200,000 baht on a 'maybe'

 

With no consistency regarding absolute requirements

 

Once outside Bangkok or CM, immigration tells you 'cannot'

 

A wait of up to 5 years or more if there is another coup

 

Yes, why not! That's a great farking idea. Well done!

[KiChakayan]

23 hours ago, Brunolem said:

And in South East Asia, it is not only Thailand, but also Cambodia, Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia...

Malaysia seems to be consistently overlooked. They have an excellent retirement program, affordable (85000 USD assets and 2300 USD income) and I you can work, buy a house, import a car. Healthcare is excellent, etc.

What stops me is that schools are way too expensive.

[tifino]

6 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

Malaysia seems to be consistently overlooked. They have an excellent retirement program, affordable (85000 USD assets and 2300 USD income) and I you can work, buy a house, import a car. Healthcare is excellent, etc.

What stops me is that schools are way too expensive.

that way works easiest so long as you've married a local malay;

the Hospital visits to Outpatients cost One Ringgit; but just as in China, Thailand etc, you don't own the land you think you've bought (just the house upon it - a 99 year lease on the land;

plenty of cars are already being imported (or at least somehow turn up) so there's no need to really to do the hard yard in importing them yourself (tons come from Singapore etc due to ther 10 years life limit)

Schooling for expats are big private outfits, such as DeLasalle etc

[moe666]

On 11/4/2018 at 6:13 PM, Scouse123 said:

'

 

I really am confused by who the post is aimed at to start with.

 

However, if it's me, I never once said that foreigners are a burden. Not once. So where does that come from? I am certainly NOT attacking foreigners here. That's the first time I have ever been accused of something like that.

 

My main point was, are people, expecting too much from the system as it is? You cannot expect the GBP to stay at 70  baht or the USD at 45 baht. Currencies fluctuate. Prices in bars, shops, and supermarkets go up, just like they do in our home countries. That's inflation and is worldwide.

 

You are not the only guy that pays taxes, so do I. And in my time here have bought no less than seven brand new cars, built a number of houses for Thai families etc. and had businesses and companies, all above board tax paid and closed down properly, when no longer required.

 

You are totally wide of the mark here, and making an unjustified comment about something neither said nor implied.

 

The money in the bank syndrome, I agree, and even more so because I have a Thai partner for 20 plus years and we never married etc so I still need to show 800,000 baht. The land and houses are built and paid for, so no borrowings or mortgage, or even rent, It stands then, to reason, I can live on less than 65K a month comfortably, and I do!

 

The reason is I can live like this, I live in Isaarn, I don't smoke, I now drink very little, through choice and health, not budget restraints and I prefer Thai food in local restaurants or cooked at home to going out. My days of discos and gogo bars are over and I am still only 56, but like to keep reasonably fit and prefer simple pleasures,

 

My other point was about foreigners complaining about currency manipulations, harking back to the good old days when at one point the pound touched 90 baht,  and then every silly idea under the sun to save a baht or two, is to ask themselves, can they really afford now to stay in Thailand because these regulations are not going to change just because they get up petitions and complain here on Thai visa.

 

It will not change things. If they are single, maybe a different country. If married, maybe they should return home and get a job to get more funds. If they are retired or too old to work with not enough funds, maybe they underestimated their retirement budget.

I agree with you 100 percent, I have seen to many retirees here in Thailand setting around a few beers chatting about if the pound goes up one more point they will be able to get their extension of stay. These same people always have enough for beer but skip paying the rent a few days or in one case 6 months and it was only 2,000b a month. 

The easy days of staying in Thailand are over, it started with the crack downs on visa exempt making runs to border and progressed to education visas, then tourist visas, and now it has hit the retirement visa crowd. Thais are saying if you have enough money to stay welcome if not you are gone, which is there right and responsibility.

Stop worrying about what the Thais do or do not do and start worrying about yourself. We all knew what the rules were when we came here and anyone with a brain knew the rules could change. The rules are not made for your convience but to protect the country of Thailand as all immigrations laws are in every country. I knew I could not buy land when I moved to Thailand and I haven't spent one minute worrying about that fact. Move on or move out seem to be the choices

[HHTel]

42 minutes ago, tifino said:

that way works easiest so long as you've married a local malay;

the Hospital visits to Outpatients cost One Ringgit; but just as in China, Thailand etc, you don't own the land you think you've bought (just the house upon it - a 99 year lease on the land;

plenty of cars are already being imported (or at least somehow turn up) so there's no need to really to do the hard yard in importing them yourself (tons come from Singapore etc due to ther 10 years life limit)

Schooling for expats are big private outfits, such as DeLasalle etc

I looked into this a while ago and as far as I'm aware, you can, as a foreigner, buy freehold land.

[Mike Teavee]

22 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

To claim the full state pension, you must have been paid up with your NIC contributions.

 

You cannot disappear to Thailand for 40 years or whatever, and go back and get a full state pension unless you have paid in.

What I meant was your pension would be “unfrozen” and taken up to the level that you would be entitled to if you hadn’t been living in Thailand.

[balo]

8 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

So its not as easy as you made out recommending Vietnam as a place to go and retire easier than Thailand.

My post was primarily about Cambodia , not Vietnam . I know 1 year visas there are very simple to get .  

Now you inform me that you can only get 6 months visa in Vietnam , still way better than a Thai tourist visa. 

 

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, balo said:

My post was primarily about Cambodia , not Vietnam . I know 1 year visas there are very simple to get .  

Now you inform me that you can only get 6 months visa in Vietnam , still way better than a Thai tourist visa. 

 

 

Balo,

 

Some people can't be helped. They cannot afford to stay here, yet expect the same visa benefits Thailand used to have, to be available to them in other countries without helping themselves or lifting a finger except to criticize and nitpick on here. Each country is a sovereign state with its own laws and regulations.

 

 It's quite easy to do is to get a local Vietnamese business to support by being proactive. There are other loopholes once you are in Vietnam and get advice for Joe Public to get the most suitable visas and learn the ins and outs. If the guy is asking for visas as in retirement extensions etc I do not know. I do know about those in Cambodia as I have had them before. I think the Philippines makes it easy for retirees and there are plenty of options in Malaysia.

 

I have friends who got a local business to sponsor them and have been there for years and are still there now. I recently had one of them visit with his wife to us up here in cowboy country.

 

Both guys are from the UK and ex Thailand guys,(Pattaya and Koh Samui ) who quit here.

 

They were also working legally in Hanoi as tour agents for a Vietnamese company. They were happy with their salaries and the Vietnamese boss assisted them long term with their visas. They have now moved into tour websites and travel by themselves, both got married recently to Vietnamese and seem to be living happily.

 

The Vietnamese owner offered to do guarantee letters for me if I wished to stay for an extended term. It is easier in Vietnam to meet businessmen as they don't tend to hide behind underlings and control their businesses leading from the front.

 

 

 

[ericthai]

12 hours ago, thequietman said:

Pay out almost 200,000 baht on a 'maybe'

 

With no consistency regarding absolute requirements

 

Once outside Bangkok or CM, immigration tells you 'cannot'

 

A wait of up to 5 years or more if there is another coup

 

Yes, why not! That's a great farking idea. Well done!

Several of my friends have PR and yes it took time and some work but they got it! 

[5633572526]

I can’t speak for other embassies but there was no deception in my obtaining my annual letter for income from the USA embassy. The first two years I obtained it I brought proof of income along to my embassy and they did not want to see it. They pointed out the disclaimer that stated the letter was not a proof of income but only a notarized “statement of income” which seemed to be ok with Thai immigration for many years.

Now I suspect Thai immigration has demanded actual proof and embassies are not willing to provide a relatively simple service to their citizens. 

[HHTel]

25 minutes ago, 5633572526 said:

Now I suspect Thai immigration has demanded actual proof and embassies are not willing to provide a relatively simple service to their citizens. 

It's far from simple.  The Thai immigration have not asked for proof but verification from the embassies.  I don't believe any embassy can do that.

[NoshowJones]

On 11/4/2018 at 7:54 PM, Lacessit said:

A valid point. Governments generally don't like their citizens escaping from their control. Of course, if said governments had not screwed up the retirements of their citizens by their inaction before, during and after the GFC, they would not be seeing many of their citizens fleeing to places like Thailand.

What's GFC? some football club? Lazy typing again, need to try and learn to read some peoples mind.

[NoshowJones]

On 11/4/2018 at 8:03 PM, sirineou said:

Though I agree with most you said,

Two points

One of clarification , USD not 45bht but sadly 32.8???? 

and that the income  requirement  are not progressive (though you did not say that they are) 

   if one had build a house paid for, it stand to reason that such person does not have a rent expense , obviously such person does not need the same amount to live in Thailand as a person who pays rent so why should they both be required the same amount? Not only is it unfair , it is punitive, and does not encourage investment in Thailand. 

If I had a borderline income knowing what I know now, I would certainly not build a house in Thailand and would instead keep the Three million bht in the bank , and if I already had a house build then perhaps I would sell it and then have more than sufficient funds to remain in Thailand.

Both neither fair or progressive policies. and certainly counterproductive. 

 

 

As long as politicians keep getting rich, nothing will change, but if their money stream goes down, you can bet there will be lots of changes.

[Mike Teavee]

3 hours ago, possum1931 said:

What's GFC? some football club? Lazy typing again, need to try and learn to read some peoples mind.

Assuming it was a serious question, GFC is the commonly used acronym for the "Global Financial Crisis" which happened in 2007/2008 & no doubt hit a lot of peoples plans for income in retirement

 

E.g. Lloyds was/is one of the most widely held stocks for small UK investors & was widely regarded as a "Retirement Stock" for it's dividends, in the 2007/2008 Tax Year it paid 35.9p, last tax year it paid 3.05 (less than 1/10th).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zydeco]

On 11/6/2018 at 7:51 PM, sfokevin said:

I’m late to this thread but I would say this change was also pushed by Thai Immigration as they see a future wave of Chinese armed with a Income Affidavit from the Chinese Embassy wanting to come “retire” here...

Easily solved by instituting the new rules for new applications for retirement extensions as of, say, 1 January 2019.  Everyone currently using the old methods allowed to do so.

[onera1961]

On 11/4/2018 at 3:55 AM, thequietman said:

If wife dies tomorrow, I need to leave. What the hell is going on there?

I don't have a wife, I still live in Thailand. No problem. 

[thequietman]

23 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

I don't have a wife, I still live in Thailand. No problem. 

My point is that I need to leave and then apply for a new visa to support my step son, although if the wife popped her cloggs, I would probably pick a different country.