Why are expats so bad in Thai?

[Orton Rd]

Tones for me as well, cannot identify them at all even when they are reading the news, which I assume is properly pronounced. As long as I can do the shopping and deal with the bank thats enough. I would never be able to hold a conversation in Thai. What would that be about anyway, food, the heat, the mozzies, moobhan gossip and the lottery numbers, not worth the struggle.

 

[melvinmelvin]

8 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I get the learning the alphabet as a step to learning Thai etc but even if I can read every word, I still dont know what that word means or can speak Thai

If there is a Thai sign that says danger, and I can read it phonetically and say the word in Thai, unless I know that word means danger, I am none the wiser. Its not like once you can read it you get the translation, the engish word or the meaning etc

wouldn't that be true for most languages?

 

[andre47]

9 hours ago, Ks45672 said:

i have no problem communicating in Thai but i can't read or write it

Reading is really not so difficult, but I will never be able to write Thai. Also many Thais cannot write proper Thai.

[bandito]

6 hours ago, poanoi said:

i have a friend that honestly wanted to learn,

but he just cant pick up on the tones at all,

he dont even hear them, its actually worse than that,

he does not hear them when i say exactly where it is and when i

pronounce it particularly.

he also cant pronounce the sounds here

I'm one of them.

Can't speak a word of Thai after 40 years here, tonedeaf.

Tried AUA and others over the years but nothing so I gave up.

Even Bernard Trink the Nightowl columnist of the Bangkok Post could'nt speak one word of Thai

and this guy lived here from 1962.

There are more like the then bookrecensent of the Bangkok Post.

[Peterw42]

6 minutes ago, exemplary21 said:

 

Are you suggesting that intelligence and ability to learn a language are not co-related?

 

That, quite frankly, would be ridiculous.

Is the ability to learn a musical instrument, paint a picture, related to intelligence. 

[exemplary21]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

Is the ability to learn a musical instrument, paint a picture, related to intelligence. 

 

Yes, of course.

[otherstuff1957]

When I first arrived here I made a real effort to learn Thai.  After a year or so, I could read Thai and am now about as literate as a 2nd grade Thai student.  I can read street signs, signs outside stores and menus, but struggle to understand newspaper headlines.  Learning to read as an adult was a very interesting experience and I do think that learning to read Thai will really help your overall comprehension and ability to live here.

 

However, my spoken Thai is much weaker than my ability to read Thai or listen to spoken Thai, mainly because of the tones.

 

Also, if you drive away from Bangkok for 2 or 3 hours you might as well be in another country.  I find that the regional dialects are pretty much incomprehensible!

[NCC1701A]

I very first things I learned to say before I came to Thailand were "You are beautiful" "What is your name?" "I love you".

 

you know, your survival phrases. 

 

followed by "Hello, how are you?" "yea and no thank you" counting from 0-9, then 10-100, "how much" "where are you going?" "it is hot" "its raining". Sadly that is about it. I can still remember my high school Spanish 101 which is about million times easier to learn than Thai.

 

I am still learning to pronounce Prachuap  in Prachuap Khiri Khan. I have been told that the few things I can say I perfectly. Many bar girls tell me they think I understand Thai based on that.  

 

I had a girlfriend who was sure I had a wife in Udon Ratchathani because I could pronounce it correctly.

 

my two long term girlfriends earned to speak English much faster than i could kick up Thai so we always speak English around the house.

Edited November 5, 2018 by NCC1701A

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, exemplary21 said:

 

Yes, of course.

Therefore, all intelligent people should have no problem playing a musical instrument ?

It all comes down to your interpretation of intelligence, or how you measure it. You could probably argue that there are different types of intelligence.

Learning a language can be more a function of having a good memory than a high IQ.

[Nyezhov]

10 hours ago, CharlieH said:

The main thing I think is the "tone" our Western ears are not tuned in to those subtle tones that are required and are hard for us to reproduce them too because its so different, add age in the mix, teaching an old dog new tricks etc and it aint easy beyond basics thats for sure. 

Those of us that are married I think put more effort into teaching our partner our language ????.

 

It just doesnt work in my mouth and I have been coming here for 25 years or so. I have tried even a course (in the US) and I end up sounding like a Noo Yawkah cwaaking. I have a vocabulary of maybe 100 words that I can misapronounce to the great amusement of the Moto Taxi guys and bar girls. Thank god for Google translate!

 

And even when I try to imitate the sounds I get confused looks/ I live near Talat Phlu BTS. The BTS announcement lady says "tahlat Ploooo". Then I say that and I get corrected to Tahlat Pooooo. OK, WT-, is it a Plooooo or a Poooooo I thought Ploooooo was betel and Poooooo was crab, is Poooooo bothe crab and betel. At least I can say Pad Krapow Moo. I can live.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Nyezhov

[canuckamuck]

If Thailand made the token effort to start spacing words in a sentence, the time needed to learn to read would diminish considerably. For expats as well as Thai kids. It seems unnecessarily difficult to have to work out where words and sentences begin and end.  Englishbecomesmuchharedertoreadwhenallthewordsarestucktogetheritseemsfoolishtodosuchathing

 

Also from a graphic design point of view there is a lot more options available when the words are liberated from from long strings of text.

[andre47]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

Absolutely right, in addition Thai is not related to the european languages   and if you simply learned the words and then try to structure a sentence the same way you would in English, you would make litle sense. For instance in english you would say the red car. same in Greek "to cokino autokinito or in italian " La machina  rossa . different words but same structure   But in Thai you would not say "the red car" but rather "the car red"  (rot si dang)  I know the words but I have trouble with the sequence.   Next year when I retire and have more time in Thailand I plan to  take lessons and hopefully crack the code.

Try to exercise whole sentences, not only single words. Practicing whole sentences will give you a feeling for the structure. It takes a bit of time but it can be done.

[andre47]

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

I think I remember having read that in VietNam they have a fixed/standardized way of transliteration from VN script to the English/latin alphabet. Would have been nice to have that in LoS.

Try to learn the Thai alphabet. It is really not so difficult. Reading the real Thai is much better than any transliteration. Use the transliteration only if you want to read something quickly because reading in Thai will take you a bit time if you start learning. But if you really want know how to pronounce a word you should know how to read Thai.

[ricbkk]

I came here 22 years ago, I am stubborn, a bit lazy and a bit arrogant.  However, I learnt to speak, read and write Thai within 3 years. The difference being 22 years ago there was no internet, no true visions not even UBC at that time.  The only time you could watch an English language movie was 10pm on a Saturday night on Channel 7 and by tuning the radio into 97.5 for the English soundtrack.  I was immersed in Thai and had no choice.  Today, it is a lot harder to do that.  More people in Thailand speak English, the internet is everywhere, you can watch TV from  your own country with ease.  It is honestly a big challenge for people to learn Thai now because of the lack of necessity which is a shame.  When you learn the language of any country you move to you open your world.  You can see and understand the society on a deeper level.  Thai jokes and quips in their local language are hilarious.  It definitely takes a lot more dedication to learn Thai nowadays but if you are trying but thinking about giving up, please don't it will be worth it in the end.  little tip... learning to read is actually easier than learning to speak. You will also be able to see where the tones are.

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, NCC1701A said:

I very first things I learned to say before I came to Thailand were "You are beautiful" "What is your name?" "I love you".

*Laughing*

I think the "you are beautiful" is most guys introduction to the subtle tonal differences. Suay is one of the first words I learnt (with the intention of possibly seeing girls naked). I quickly learned that suay means beautiful or with an imperceptible tonal difference means "a curse on your buffalo" or something similar. (Certainly didn't lead to seeing girls naked)

 

For me, any Thai language skills went down hill from there, lol

[luckyluke]

Also be careful to who you speak Thai of what you think Thai is.

I witnesses 2 cases at Thai Immigration ( in many visits ).

 

A guy was speaking, what apparently he thought was correct Thai, to an officer.

The officer : " Please speak English, I don|'t understand anything what you say ".

 

Another time a guy started the conversation in Thai with an officer;

The officer : " Do you think I don't understand English ".

 

[andre47]

2 hours ago, Justin Side said:

I used to try and make an effort but soon realised that most Thais make no effort to even try and understand me if my attempts are not perfect so I gave up.

Yes, many Thais don't like to speak Thai with farangs. I think that is because for us it is difficult to use the right tones. Then the meaning is changing and for Thais difficult to understand.

 

Don't give up. For me, I am learning Thai now for 3 years, it is going much better now. Sometimes Thais are trying to ignore my Thai but I insist in speaking Thai with them. When they are realizing that I know some Thai they start to take me seriously and talk Thai with me. Often they are much friendlier when they feel that a farang can speak Thai.

[Bob12345]

12 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

If Thailand made the token effort to start spacing words in a sentence, the time needed to learn to read would diminish considerably. For expats as well as Thai kids. It seems unnecessarily difficult to have to work out where words and sentences begin and end.  Englishbecomesmuchharedertoreadwhenallthewordsarestucktogetheritseemsfoolishtodosuchathing

 

Also from a graphic design point of view there is a lot more options available when the words are liberated from from long strings of text.

Plus it would be nice if you could read from left to right: not from the second letter to the first letter, to the thrid letter in a word as is often the case.

 

In other languages you just learn to pronounce each letter and words are combinations of those letters in sequence of how they are written, not here.

[andre47]

1 hour ago, fvw53 said:

The most important factor is "necessity" ....before settling in Thailand I worked and lived in Pakistan, China, Sweden, Germany and Vietnam : in everyone of those countries I learned to speak the local language fluently...but here I got retired and married to a Thai wife and she is doing the communications in Thai for me. Also I cannot pick up a language from street talks and I need to go to school...but the nearest Thai language school is 2 hours drive from my house.

If you have an internet connection you can learn Thai easily with your computer. If you like, send me a PM and I can give you some good websites. And you have your wife who can answer your questions. ???? 

[Peterw42]

32 minutes ago, otherstuff1957 said:

When I first arrived here I made a real effort to learn Thai.  After a year or so, I could read Thai and am now about as literate as a 2nd grade Thai student.  I can read street signs, signs outside stores and menus, but struggle to understand newspaper headlines.  Learning to read as an adult was a very interesting experience and I do think that learning to read Thai will really help your overall comprehension and ability to live here.

 

However, my spoken Thai is much weaker than my ability to read Thai or listen to spoken Thai, mainly because of the tones.

 

Also, if you drive away from Bangkok for 2 or 3 hours you might as well be in another country.  I find that the regional dialects are pretty much incomprehensible!

I am confused about the reading Thai in relation to speaking and understanding Thai. If a Thai person says a phrase to me and I have know idea what they said, if they then write down the same phrase in Thai and I can read it , I still dont know what the phrase means.

Reading Thai doesn't dish up the translation or the meaning, hearing a word or reading the same word, makes no difference if I dont know what the word means.

[NCC1701A]

15 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

"a curse on your buffalo"

yes I was told it is much worse that that! so now I really pause and think before I say "Suay" so I hopefully get it right.

 

I can tell by the look on the girl's face if I get it wrong or right.

Edited November 5, 2018 by NCC1701A

[seancbk]

11 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Some of them live here for more then 30 years and still can't say more than 30 words.

Is it laziness, a feeling of superiority, missing skills or something else?

 

I spent 5 years learning French at school and couldn't hold much more than a very simple conversation when I finished.  Now of course I couldn't even do that.

I spent 35 years in Hong Kong and didn't learn Cantonese, except for telling taxi drivers where I lived.  Mostly due to the fact that everyone I interacted with spoke English and I never dated any Chinese girls.

Been in Bangkok 10 years and can say a few things in Thai (more than I ever could in Cantonese), but haven't had time to take lessons.  Have had 2 Thai GF's and both of them spoke English.  I'd like to think I'll learn more, but the reality is I probably won't.  I would never date someone who didn't speak English, so I'm not going to learn from my next GF.  I don't have time to take lessons although I'd like to, then I wonder whether it will make much difference anyway as I rarely need to speak to Thais that don't speak at least a bit of English. 

 

[Bogbrush]

Like many, on first arriving back in the day I eagerly signed up for a course which made me initially optimistic but that soon passed when the classroom gave way to the big bad world, and you take stock of just what a monumental climb you have in front of you, most if not all of which will involve one step forward, two back, with accompanying embarrassment ...

 

I discussed it with a mate who said “Look - are you ever going to want to expound on Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Theory in Thai? Answer - no, so stick to the basics, which consist of ‘sawadee karp, beer sod neung, ik neung, and check bin karp.’”

 

Now? I try my best, stick within my comfort zone, inwardly cringe at the blank stares I get, attempt to listen more and check new phrases when I get home. Not exactly Henry Higgins, but...

[Nyezhov]

I was on a tour boat down a canal filled with Chinese, so I made sure I was sitting with some Thai folks in the back with the boatman (nice trip for 100b). I make my bad thai greetings to the folks around me and smile and whatnot, off we go Im snapping pics and the boatman slows down and taps me on the shoulder and points at a monitor sunning iteself, I say in English Holy S**t, Hia! and start snapping away and the boat guy and Thais just crack up hysterically, like it is the funniest thing they heard ever. 

[tilaceer]

In my opinion forget the tonal aspect.

Many use this as an excuse not to learn, but in many cases even Thais do not use them correctly. In many cases they have also stopped using classifiers.

At the machine gun pace that Thai is normally spoken it is almost impossible to include tones, indeed it is the context of the sentence that provides the meaning. Single words, the first word and last word in a sentence are about the only place where you can emphasise a tone.

I can speak fairly well, plus read and write, but as previously mentioned, writing is extremely difficult. My big problem are those Thais who refuse to try and understand you, when it is obvious you are trying to speak their language, (tones not with standing). Living in Isaan, I find them less tolerant, but that might be education related.

Just try...who cares if you think you have ordered rice steamed, but have ordered rice beautiful instead?

In my muang, hardly any farang can communicate in Thai, and the wives/gf's get right annoyed at their laziness and excuses. Now try and learn Isaan...thats tough....

[TKDfella]

2 hours ago, blazes said:

Certainly English is, bar none, the easiest language to learn, especially since you don't have to worry about the gender of nouns and very few problems in the verb area.  And no matter how bad your pronunciation of English, both natives AND foreigners will understand what you are trying to say. 

I mean, here in LoS, it is not uncommon to hear a Korean and, say, a Japanese converse with each other in English.

 

If the Thais would transliterate their impossible script into "Western" letters, more of us would, I think, take the trouble to learn a bit more than we do.

Nope, I think you are wrong. English is, for the foreigner, difficult to learn. One reason among many is that words can juggled around yet still mean the same ('I don't feel very well today'...Today, I don't feel very well'). Other languages, including Thai, have definite rules for sentence structure. Change it and it means something different or it is incorrect and may not be understood. Another point is that although most of English words have their meaning rooted in Latin other words have different origins. This confuses the non-native English speaker. Then there is Eton and Harrow pronunciations. The list goes on.

[CharlieH]

The problems I hit........

 

I learned a new word everyday, but not really a lot of use because you cant put them together to make sentences, as the order is all wrong.

 

Ilearned a few phrases and practiced them, wrong again,  learn too many phrases as then people think you can speak Thai and then gibber back and I have no idea what they are saying and have to stop them, thats emarrassing ! 

 

Then you have those that know you can understand what they are saying, what do they do........talk faster so its harder for you to listen........grrrrr

 

And finally, you listen and repeat BUT Thais have trouble with R and L 

What happens......you learn wrong !! But they still understand your wrong pronounciation ! "Mai pen rai" comes out "mai pen lai " roi baht becomes Loi baht and so on, so not only are you learning a language you get a speech impediment too !!! ???? so you then start questioning is that really an L or should it be an R ????

 

I find the whole thing very frustrating. ????

[animalmagic]

Just now, Nyezhov said:

I was on a tour boat down a canal filled with Chinese, so I made sure I was sitting with some Thai folks in the back with the boatman (nice trip for 100b). I make my bad thai greetings to the folks around me and smile and whatnot, off we go Im snapping pics and the boatman slows down and taps me on the shoulder and points at a monitor sunning iteself, I say in English Holy S**t, Hia! and start snapping away and the boat guy and Thais just crack up hysterically, like it is the funniest thing they heard ever. 

A friend of mine had a similar experience in Hong Kong when directing someone's attention to a boat floating at sea.  Using simple words and English construction he managed to say. 'suen hai sui', literally boat in water.  Wrong construction and butchered tones meant he said, 'sour pussy juice.' (but with a far ruder interpretation of pussy!)

[Nyezhov]

8 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Nope, I think you are wrong. English is, for the foreigner, difficult to learn. One reason among many is that words can juggled around yet still mean the same ('I don't feel very well today'...Today, I don't feel very well'). Other languages, including Thai, have definite rules for sentence structure. Change it and it means something different or it is incorrect and may not be understood. Another point is that although most of English words have their meaning rooted in Latin other words have different origins. This confuses the non-native English speaker. Then there is Eton and Harrow pronunciations. The list goes on.

But English is very conducive to pidgen. How you. You OK. You pretty. Beer me. Where you come from. Where you go. Have baby (patting my belly).

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, andre47 said:

Reading is really not so difficult, but I will never be able to write Thai. Also many Thais cannot write proper Thai.

My wife has started to complain at how poorly many Thais write their own language.