Expats need to organize in face of Embassies discontinuance of income verification letters

[Kalasin Jo]

6 hours ago, lkv said:

The income letter as far as I understand is valid for 6 months, so if it covers you until January when the extension is due, then you're good for another 12 months starting January next year.

 

If its validity does not reach January next year, you should get a new letter now from the BE, until they stop issuing them. 

 

The last date for application will be December 12.

On 11/9/2018 at 7:37 AM, lkv said:

The ideal scenario for you would be, especially since you travel to Europe regularly, to apply for a multiple entry non O-A in your home country, and if stretched the right way, it would cover you for up to 2 years. Then repeat after 2 years and/or make those decisions to sell or not to sell later in time.

Yes, thanks, if the BE income letter I have does not do the job on my extension renewal in January I shall leave and try the O-A from my home country. If it works this time then next time. That I believe gives 90 days at a time in Thailand. On the 90th day can I leave and return either the same or the next day or do I have to be out for a set period of days?

 

I live about 3 hrs drive from Nong Kai and the Friendship Bridge but cannot remember if there is a border crossing there which lets foreigners in to Lao and on to Vientiane with appropriate stamps. The alternative would be Savanakhet ( about the same distance and time by car but probably not so much fun where I can also get this visa at the Thai Consulate. Or of course I could fly somewhere out of the country and take a break! 

[lkv]

13 minutes ago, Kalasin Jo said:

 and try the O-A from my home country. If it works this time then next time. That I believe gives 90 days at a time in Thailand. 

A holder of a multiple Entry non O-A visa can enter Thailand multiple times over the course of it's validity of 1 year, and will receive a permission of stay of 12 months each time.

 

In practice, what people would do, is enter one last time just before the visa expiry date, get a new 12 months permission of stay, that they would mantain with a re-entry permit throughout the second year (should they need to exit Thailand).

 

Therefore, an O-A can be "stretched" for up to 2 years. At that stage another trip to the home country would be necessary for a new O-A.

Edited November 10, 2018 by lkv

[rumak]

On 11/8/2018 at 3:42 PM, cyberfarang said:

There is nothing to reach out to immigration for.

 

Immigration accept the monthly income option with proof of source of income and an embassy confirmation letter, they have not changed their policy on this. So far 3 embassies have confirmed they will no longer issue the letters. I very much doubt Thai immigration will amend their rules and policies to accommodate the changes made by foreign embassies.  You`re caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

I fail to see the reasoning of those who do not want to bring over 800000 baht for peace of mind and less hassle. I`ve kept large sums of money, much much more than 800000 baht in Thai banks for over 20 years, never had a problem. In-fact I am receiving much better interest rates on my savings here in Thailand then back in the UK.

 

Those who have their money tied up in long term investments abroad are going to have to dip into those investments and bring the prescribed sums of monies over to Thailand if they wish to remain here, there are no ways around this that many will have to accept, swallow the bitter pill.

 

The bottom line here, is that our embassies do nothing for us, they are a total waste of time. Some years ago I was asked by the British embassy if I want to register with them. I could not see any benefits in doing so.

 

Sorry, guys, I know this is a bum deal and it`s going to cause hardships for many. But it`s happened, the likelihood of this changing is practically zero and somehow those using the monthly income options I.E. Australians, Brits and Americans so far, although I guess other embassies will follow, will have to find alternatives around this. 

i can't believe i am doing this.  but i admit i agree with everything cbf just wrote

[Spidey]

Just now, rumak said:

i can't believe i am doing this.  but i admit i agree with everything cbf just wrote

Yes, me too. I'd just like to know how I can get a decent rate of interest in an account in Thailand on 800k baht.

 

I believe that only certain accounts that are acceptable to TI, i.e. accounts that have instant access.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

 

If the above continues- Thai imm will simply have to face  citizens from the 3 countries who did not  get their letters or new  applicants from the 3 countries who never applied before-  Thai Imm will then handle as needed- no letters-  show the money.

 

You seem to be missing the fact that right up until today for a monthly income extension application, if the applicant didn't have an Embassy income letter, Immigration would deny them, and insist on the Embassy letter. No matter what their Thai or foreign bank books might show in terms of monthly income.

 

So, by the mere fact of, APPARENTLY, now saying to Americans, Brits and Aussies that you can apply for an extension based on monthly income and document it only by showing monthly deposits to a Thai bank account, that in and of itself would be a CHANGE by Immigration.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, The Truth said:

The American middle class died because it had skills belonging to the last century.

Had the twin-programs of mass-immigration and outsourcing (via removing tariffs) not been removed. The calamity would not have occurred.  Automation decreased when factories went overseas, because people were cheaper than machines, there.

 

Quote

There aren't millions of jobs available for people to assemble or spray paint cars any more. 

The well-paying jobs are in coding etc, not digging for 'clean' coal (despite Mr. Trump's efforts to placate the hicks).

People need to train for the jobs of the 21st Century and stop complaining about the lack of demand for skills from the 20th.

Nope, the H1B Visas are wrecking that - been there, done that.  They will work for 1/2 our former-wage, plus overnights and weekends for free, to start their chain-migration pipeline.  Can't say I blame them from wanting to escape the conditions of their homelands and help their families - but destroying the American middle-class, and leaving 1/2 of all STEM college-grads unable to get STEM jobs (reality, today), is not acceptable.

 

On the automation-front, I tend to somewhat agree with your position - but that is all the more reason NOT to allow more than a trickle of immigration - and only the very best and brightest the world has to offer - people who can help us navigate a brighter future.  Then, and only then, will there be any country(ies) on Earth who can help the destitute nations to improve their state of being - since no amount of immigration could ever save them - even if it didn't just drive us into the same poverty as what they were trying to escape.

Edited November 10, 2018 by JackThompson

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Or even in many cases to start selling up and PACKING.

They want to live in a foreign land and they have no way to raise money (worst case 800K for three month seasoning but I also believe 65K/month will be accepted). How pathetic. Yes, I understand they have spent all their money building fancy houses in a place where average income is 200USD/month. Thirty years ago, when I was searching for a house in the USA, I said to myself I would buy the cheapest house in the richest neighborhood rather than the most expensive one in a poor area. And I still go by that motto. 

Edited November 10, 2018 by onera1961

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, lkv said:

I don't think they will make an announcement. I think it will be something like:

 

- Yes sure, if you can bring us proof of income we will give you an extension.

- But i cannot do that, the embassy doesn't give me that proof.

- Well, you have a second option: 800K.

 

Why issue any new directives, too much fuss. They can just leave the catch 22 running ????

 

 

Well for starters, all three of the Embassies involved have said Thai Immigration will begin to accept monthly income based extension application based only on the documentation of Thai bank book deposits of some sort -- something Immigration has never accepted before for purposes of monthly income. Right up to now, you always had to have an Embassy income letter, no matter what else.

 

The only problem with that right now is -- no one from Thai Immigration HQ has confirmed that Thai bank deposits alone are going to be accepted in the absence of an Embassy income letter -- although there have been member posts from talking with IOs in various offices saying that's what they're going to do. But that's still hardly a policy statement from Immigration HQ that everyone can rely on.

 

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

From the early 1990s until 2016, they managed both political parties, and left working-folks with no voice what so ever. 

It all started before 1990s. I would say from 1973 when productivity started outpacing wage growth. Why? Due to union busting (instead of reforming it), rise of right to work states, suppressed minimum wages, rise of automation, and globalization. There are two classes of people in a modern society. working class (factory workers, bank clerks, janitors, restaurant workers, construction workers, plumbers, etc.) and professional class (doctors, engineers, accountants, bankers, etc.). Almost all productivity gains and globalization benefits trickled down to professional classes at the expense of the working class. 

[Pattaya46]

12 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

// in a place where average income is 200USD/month. //

More than double of that...    Source :

Thailand Average Monthly Wages in Q3 2018 : 14'065 THB, about 425 US$/month

 

[onera1961]

7 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Thailand Average Monthly Wages in Q3 2018 : 14'065 THB, about 425 US$/month

I was talking about ISAAN. Every village has a fancy house belonging to a farang.

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

More than double of that...    Source :

Thailand Average Monthly Wages in Q3 2018 : 14'065 THB, about 425 US$/month

"Median" wage is a better indicator.  Average includes the billionaires, and like most places, the top 0.1% own the vast majority of everything, so make most of the money there is to be made. 

There was a USA-income graph showing income in a football-field with median in the middle, where money was represented by stacks of $100 bills.  The guys in the middle had a decent little stack, the guys on the 1-yard line, a nice tall stack (docs, lawyers), but on the one-inch line, the stack was higher than orbiting satellites.  It's probably even more extreme than that here, using 1000 Baht notes and Thai incomes.

So, figure each and every expat spending even 1/2 of their required 65K Baht gross-income directly into Thailand is supporting many Thais - and most double or more that poorer (relative to expats) fraction.

 

7 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

I was talking about ISSAN. Every village has a fancy house belonging to a farang. 

Nah, it belongs to his wife.  One not too far from me, where the farang has been long gone for years. 

[Jingthing]

They want to live in a foreign land and they have no way to raise money (worst case 800K for three month seasoning but I also believe 65K/month will be accepted). How pathetic. Yes, I understand they have spent all their money building fancy houses in a place where average income is 200USD/month. Thirty years ago, when I was searching for a house in the USA, I said to myself I would buy the cheapest house in the richest neighborhood rather than the most expensive one in a poor area. And I still go by that motto. 

Unpleasant presumptuousness and arrogance.

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[Ebumbu]

On 11/9/2018 at 1:50 AM, Peasandmash said:

 

Enjoy Vietnam

 

Just waiting for the first morning so I can say the Robin Williams tagline. ????  My friend says it's paradise. Met his future wife. Beautiful scenery. He says the women are less materialistic (I'll believe it when I see it). Not sure about Internet speeds and stability. He says they have a good hospital. And, they seem to offer no-headache visas. Keeping it in mind. 

[lkv]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Well for starters, all three of the Embassies involved have said Thai Immigration will begin to accept monthly income based extension application based only on the documentation of Thai bank book deposits of some sort -- something Immigration has never accepted before for purposes of monthly income. Right up to now, you always had to have an Embassy income letter, no matter what else.

Ok I am not going to argue about what the other Embassies have said, but I heard the radio interview with the British Embassy staff, and it went something like this:

 

Reporter: So are you saying that 65k proof of income will be accepted by the Thai Immigration?

 

Embassy staff: The Thai laws have always stated that proof of 65K per month is acceptable for an extension.

 

So it's all smoke and mirrors. Evasive answers. Word play. The Embassy refers to the Thai law, creating the vague impression that Immigration might accept the 65K. If the 65K will not be accepted, the Embassy can always turn around and say: "we never said they would, we just quoted the Thai law", and Immigration can then blame the Embassies for not issuing the letters, because they are not willing to properly do the "verification", which they can't anyway.

 

Makes sense? ????

Edited November 10, 2018 by lkv

[rumak]

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

Yes, me too. I'd just like to know how I can get a decent rate of interest in an account in Thailand on 800k baht.

 

I believe that only certain accounts that are acceptable to TI, i.e. accounts that have instant access.

I have been using time deposits (one year)....most banks offer them....  6 months or longer, it depends.  Never a problem for extension of stay ( bank will give letter certifying your account balance).  usual rate nowadays

is around 1.5% , however they do take out some tax when interest is paid.  I extend in CM, but i think all

Imm offices accept this kind of deposit.  If in doubt ask Ubon Joe

[JLCrab]

8 hours ago, lkv said:

Why issue any new directives, too much fuss. They can just leave the catch 22 running ????

I don't know that the bank deposit from abroad route would require a new directive . This is what the current (Police Order) directive says:

 

(3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month: or

 

So up until recent the Embassy letter was deemed as necessary and sufficient evidence.

 

But the Supporting DOCs required No. 138/2557 attachment to the current Police Order says:

 

3.Evidence of income such as retirement pension, interest or dividends, and/or

4.Certified letter of having the required amount in the bank account (fixed/ savings deposit) issued by a bank.

 

So the FTT or other deposit of not less than 65K baht monthly deposit in the passbook COULD also be deemed as evidence with no change to the current Police Order or its attachment.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by JLCrab

[cleverman]

This time next year I'm gunna be a millionaire. Been in touch with Oz Govt and when I head back for Xmas I can have my Justice of the Peace Authority  reinstated. I will then be able to accept stat decs here in LOS then.,for Ozzies. 

[Artisi]

3 minutes ago, cleverman said:

This time next year I'm gunna be a millionaire. Been in touch with Oz Govt and when I head back for Xmas I can have my Justice of the Peace Authority  reinstated. I will then be able to accept stat decs here in LOS then.,for Ozzies. 

Dream on, what's the use of an Aussie JP in Thailand.?

[soalbundy]

All that is needed are two things, (1) Thai immigration exchanges the word 'verify' for 'certify' and (2) the US and AUS embassies do away with stat decs and follow the procedures used by the Europeans to certify income based on the documents shown.

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Dream on, what's the use of an Aussie JP in Thailand.?

nice little earner for the JP, pity that TI stipulates EMBASSY letter.

[Spidey]

7 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

All that is needed are two things, (1) Thai immigration exchanges the word 'verify' for 'certify' and (2) the US and AUS embassies do away with stat decs and follow the procedures used by the Europeans to certify income based on the documents shown.

And for 3 embassies to rescind their decision to stop issuing income letters, which is the main sticking point, particularly for the BE.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

And for 3 embassies to rescind their decision to stop issuing income letters, which is the main sticking point, particularly for the BE.

IF they can use the word certify they would do I assume, they would no longer have an excuse not to.

[ubonjoe]

Since this topic is so far off topic from what was written in the OP and has evolved into the same discussion that is in the original topics about proof of income from embassies it is now closed.

The discussion can continued in the following topics for those from the countries mentioned.

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1061149-british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters/

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1065147-just-received-some-bad-news-for-us-citizens-no-more-income-affidavits/

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1066282-australia-joins-the-uk-and-usa-with-withdrawal-of-income-verification/