Denmark Embassy Has Stopped Doing Pension Letters

[Joe Mcseismic]

3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

That's what you'd like to believe.

You are in fact aiding and abetting corruption because you knew an illegal transaction was taking place.

These agencies are retirement schemes for ex-immigration people. They've been operating for years and will continue to operate for years.

Could you please show a single agency customer that was ever prosecuted for this? 

 

Anyway, ultimately its your choice for the route you're able to take.

[BobBKK]

Bit abrupt (unlike the polite Danes) .  Hope a Thai bank book with monthly 65k+ entries will suffice in future and stop this madness.  

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Could you please show a single agency customer that was ever prosecuted for this? 

 

I posted this before in another thread.

 

6 months ago, several Immigration officers were dismissed (not moved to inactive posts) for issuing extensions illegally in Roi Et.  We have no local agents, but a Thai woman acting as the go between was involved in securing the extensions for her fee and that of the IO's.

6 expats involved, 4 were immediately rounded up and removed from the Country, one married to a Thai.

The other 2 were not at the addresses reported to Immigration. but a team were visiting expat hotspots with ID of the men concerned in order to trace their whereabouts. I believe they later caught one in Khon Kaen.

 

There were no prosecutions as such, the woman received a formal warning, 5 IO's lost their jobs, and a number of expats were removed from the Country. These are the risks one takes when dealing with a corrupt procedure.

[Bert Jones]

Capitalist economies only work when money is being spent. People are the economy. In the financial crises that gripped the western economies, interest rates went to near zero, thus making loans cheap, so the money could be spent into the economy - invested or nice new shiney cars bought, but also to discourage saving. Foreign money is no use to Thailand if sat in a bank accounts. Our ex-pat money is of little use to the Thai economy unless we spend it. It won't be long before the money has to be seen leaving Thai accounts.

[Vacuum]

15 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

It has become common knowledge that a large minority of expats are using corrupt agency methods to pull strings to obtain their yearly extensions for a price.

Correct, and the Immigration officers like it.

[jackdd]

22 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I would surmise that it is precisely because higher-rank persons are involved, that this system of bribery has been stable for so long.

The whole government system is based on corruption, this is not limited to Immigration and is accepted by nearly everybody. Do you think the boss of the guy collection 200THB from you because you rode your bike without a helmet doesn't get a share of it? And the boss' boss as well, and everybody up the food chain to the highest ranking officials.

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

6 months ago, several Immigration officers were dismissed (not moved to inactive posts) for issuing extensions illegally in Roi Et.  We have no local agents, but a Thai woman acting as the go between was involved in securing the extensions for her fee and that of the IO's.

In Central America, bus-drivers were often yanked out of their buses and shot on the spot, because their bosses failed to pay protection money to a gang who controlled an area where the bus traveled. 

 

These IOs were clearly not paying into the official agent-money chain, so the higher-ups set an example of what happens.  At least such things are handled in a less violent way, here.  But one always has to wonder if their local-agent is doing things "properly" or if their connection is getting-greedy and not sharing "properly." 

 

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

The whole government system is based on corruption, this is not limited to Immigration and is accepted by nearly everybody. Do you think the boss of the guy collection 200THB from you because you rode your bike without a helmet doesn't get a share of it? And the boss' boss as well, and everybody up the food chain to the highest ranking officials.

I thought it was 300 Baht?  But the beauty of it is, you can wear a helmet, and be left alone. 

 

But, it works the same everywhere.  Only the methods of operation vary from place to place.  In the my passport-country, the courts and lawyers get all the traffic-ticket money (courts built like palaces by contractor-relatives of the powerful), and the ticket-loot stolen from us is routed back down to the cop-enforcers via high wages, good benefits, and even pensions (now rare, in the private sector).

[zydeco]

22 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

But one always has to wonder if their local-agent is doing things "properly" or if their connection is getting-greedy and not sharing "properly." 

Must make sure you go to a reputable disreputable agent!

[OneeyedJohn]

19 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Finally and at last. Somebody who actually understands how this works.
For those still struggling, I suggest taking it in the same context of 'We have no plans to stop the income letters/affidavits' just a day before they stopped them.

Pretty much like a football manager getting the full support and backing from his chairman / owner the week before he gets sacked.

[OneeyedJohn]

10 hours ago, HHTel said:

I think you'll find that the embassies are not directly involved and are carrying out instructions from their own foreign office.

I remember years ago coming to Thailand to try and get my wife's brother to come to England and go to a language school. I was a fully employed, home owner with a Thai wife holding a British Passport.

  We applied in Bangkok embassy for his visa and without going into all the details , the nett result was we failed to get his visa. It was a huge emotionally crushing blow to him, and we both were very upset. When we returned to the UK I went to my MP and complained that the embassy decision was wrong.  He took the matter up for us but eventually came back with the answer that what the embassy abroad decides cannot be changed from government departments/ ministeries in the UK.

  From that day on I have never had any faith in anything the embassies do, or claim to do.

[watcharacters]

2 hours ago, zydeco said:

The Chinese are not just guests. They will never be just guests. See what is happening in Laos.  The Chinese just move in and start taking over. On my newsfeed some months ago, I saw an article that stated some 200,000 to 400,000 Chinese had moved into Laos and started up operations. This, in a country of less than 7 million people. How long before they start squatting in northern Thailand permanently?

On a foreign land  it appears the Chinese are very industrious and hard working.

 

They have a near stranglehold in the PI and they're gaining that in Cambodia.

Thailand appears to be the next target.

 

I can relate a personal observation.   i live in a building that is half condos and half  hotel rentals.   It is and has been owned by  Chinese for many years.   Recently the management decided to clean house.      Now instead of four smiling Thai ladies at the reception desk,  who were not really efficient,  there may be only  one person there who will do a good job.

 

Sorry to say it but my experience after all the years I've been here is Thai people do not get any praises or prizes  for ambition or logical thinking.

 

Mia culpa for  my opinion and  bad news.

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by watcharacters

[Nielsk]

Have been on Immigration Jomtien Pattaya for the 3rd consecutive day with my Danish bank statements, tax return and preliminary statement, which are my only proof of my monthly income of over 65,000 baht. They do not accept it. Only a letter from the Danish Embassy in Bangkok can be used, although I brought the message from the Embassy in English saying that they do not provide that service anymore. They demand to see 8000,000 baht in my Thaikonto 　 I'm under pressure when I will be leaving before 3rd December and rebook my return ticket, which applies otherwise 1 May 2019 ,,,,, Has contacted a Thai lawyer through a man from Finland whose thai wife referred me. She's calling me later today. She's probably my last hope ..

[skatewash]

49 minutes ago, Nielsk said:

Have been on Immigration Jomtien Pattaya for the 3rd consecutive day with my Danish bank statements, tax return and preliminary statement, which are my only proof of my monthly income of over 65,000 baht. They do not accept it. Only a letter from the Danish Embassy in Bangkok can be used, although I brought the message from the Embassy in English saying that they do not provide that service anymore. They demand to see 8000,000 baht in my Thaikonto 　 I'm under pressure when I will be leaving before 3rd December and rebook my return ticket, which applies otherwise 1 May 2019 ,,,,, Has contacted a Thai lawyer through a man from Finland whose thai wife referred me. She's calling me later today. She's probably my last hope ..

Thank you for a report of your actual experience.  It's very valuable, although I wish the news were better.

As in your case, real people will be adversely affected by this debacle regarding the issuing of embassy income letters.  Embassy personnel will be completely unaffected as will Thai Immigration personnel, the negative consequences will fall entirely and solely on the individuals and their families seeking to use the income method for getting their extensions of stay.

Here are some things to consider in your situation.  First I would abandon using the income method.  Second, is it possible for you to fund a Thai bank account with 800,000 baht?  If so, you could switch to the seasoned money-in-the-bank method of getting your retirement extension (assuming you're not married to a Thai, in which case you would only need 400,000).  It would need to be seasoned (in the bank account) for a period of three [corrected from two] months for your first retirement extension using that method.

If it's possible longterm to switch to the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank method then that would be the way to go.  Temporarily you maybe could make do with Visa Exempt Entries (30 days) and/or Tourist Visas (60 days) plus 30 day extensions to either.

 

If the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank is not feasible for you then perhaps you could obtain a non-imm O-A (long term stay) visa in your home country.  This route would give you up to nearly two years of time in Thailand.

The least desirable method if you cannot afford the 800,000 is to use a visa agent in Thailand which for a considerable fee can get you a retirement extension without you having to season the 800,000 in your Thai bank account for 3 [corrected from 2] months.  This is obviously not completely above-board and would only be something to consider if none of the previous suggestions were feasible.

Edited November 16, 2018 by skatewash
Mistakenly said that 800,000 must be in the bank for 2 months. It's actually 3 months, unless your first extension of stay. Switching from one method (from income to money in the bank) is not considered your first extension of stay. Thanks UbonJoe!

[cyberfarang]

6 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I have had a Thai bank account for years, no problem with the yellow book apparently. I have over the years brought in a lot of money into Thailand have a son here, built two houses and sent my stepdaughter to university, I fail to see how an Io can object when my partner takes out a credit using one of the houses as security and puts the money in my account, when it's paid off it is extra security for her when I die, if I die before it's fully paid off, well the money is still there.

I keep reading comments from posters claiming they are bringing huge amounts of money into the country, helping to boost the Thai economy, financially supporting Thai people, yet are unable to pull together $12000 to obtain their yearly extensions.

 

The 2 houses you admit to purchasing under a Thai name (wife assumedly if you have a stepson), that of course must include land the buildings are on and then admit that you are using a Thai partner to pay money into your bank account using credit.

 

Well, good luck trying to justify all that to an immigration officer. 

[ubonjoe]

37 minutes ago, Nielsk said:

Have been on Immigration Jomtien Pattaya for the 3rd consecutive day with my Danish bank statements, tax return and preliminary statement, which are my only proof of my monthly income of over 65,000 baht. They do not accept it. Only a letter from the Danish Embassy in Bangkok can be used, although I brought the message from the Embassy in English saying that they do not provide that service anymore. They demand to see 8000,000 baht in my Thaikonto 　 I'm under pressure when I will be leaving before 3rd December and rebook my return ticket, which applies otherwise 1 May 2019 ,,,,, Has contacted a Thai lawyer through a man from Finland whose thai wife referred me. She's calling me later today. She's probably my last hope ..

I think I would be calling the embassy about the problem. Their abrupt ending of the pension letters has caused it. They could've at least given some advance notice and set a date to get them by.

[WorriedNoodle]

3 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

That's between the agent and the IO. Nothing to do with you. You are breaking no laws.

Visa agents are leaches. Obtaining immigration stamps by circumventing the regs will eventually catch up with you. We saw it before with the fake agent stamps and passports doing border runs without the owners. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by WorriedNoodle

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, skatewash said:

It would need to be seasoned (in the bank account) for a period of two months for your first retirement extension using that method.

For retirement that is not correct. The rule is the first extension of stay application not the first time using the money in the bank option.

For marriage it is 2 months for every extension.

[OJAS]

On 11/15/2018 at 11:27 AM, Tanoshi said:

If there is a database that holds all your personal and financial details and can be checked by your Embassy, then sue them for breach of Data protection.

I don't know what the Danish legal position is, but my understanding of the UK's Data Protection Act is that it would be OK for a government entity (e.g. the Bangkok Embassy) to access personal information held on a database created by another government entity (e.g. HMRC). It is only when and if information were shared outside the UK government that a breach of the Act might arise.

[Thaidream]

43 minutes ago, Nielsk said:

Have been on Immigration Jomtien Pattaya for the 3rd consecutive day with my Danish bank statements, tax return and preliminary statement, which are my only proof of my monthly income of over 65,000 baht. They do not accept it. Only a letter from the Danish Embassy in Bangkok can be used, although I brought the message from the Embassy in English saying that they do not provide that service anymore. They demand to see 8000,000 baht in my Thaikonto 　 I'm under pressure when I will be leaving before 3rd December and rebook my return ticket, which applies otherwise 1 May 2019 ,,,,, Has contacted a Thai lawyer through a man from Finland whose thai wife referred me. She's calling me later today. She's probably my last hope ..

Very sorry for your  situation. As Ubon Joe mentioned- I  would call the Danish Embassy and explain your situation.

Does the Danish Embassy provide Notarial for other things such as a General Affidavit in which you can write in your income source and amounts- swear to it- and they then notarize your signature.   This is not called an Income Letter but simply a General Affidavit which can be used for  anyone that needs to make a statement.  If so- I would try this- it will have the Embassy Seal and signature . 

Good luck and if you can let us know you are all right!

[skatewash]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

For retirement that is not correct. The rule is the first extension of stay application not the first time using the money in the bank option.

For marriage it is 2 months for every extension.

Thanks for the correction!

[Nielsk]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think I would be calling the embassy about the problem. Their abrupt ending of the pension letters has caused it. They could've at least given some advance notice and set a date to get them by.

Yes You are absolutely right !  I have called the emabssy and even paid and send documents 3 days before the notice.  The answer is I wil have my money back ! Imposed by 

 The Danish Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Edited November 16, 2018 by Nielsk

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, Nielsk said:

Yes You are absolutely right !  I have called the emabssy and even paid and send documents 3 days before the notice.  The answer is I wil have my money back ! Imposed by 

If your Embassy does not have a General Affadavit- could you type a statement on a regular piece of paper- indication that I, (name)  am  stating under penalty of perjury, that I have income  (amounts and source)  and bring it to the Embassy.  would they  then have you sign the statement in their presence-  verifying your signature and  place their signature and Embassy seal on the letter. This would be a notarial .  

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

I keep reading comments from posters claiming they are bringing huge amounts of money into the country, helping to boost the Thai economy, financially supporting Thai people, yet are unable to pull together $12000 to obtain their yearly extensions.

 

The 2 houses you admit to purchasing under a Thai name (wife assumedly if you have a stepson), that of course must include land the buildings are on and then admit that you are using a Thai partner to pay money into your bank account using credit.

 

Well, good luck trying to justify all that to an immigration officer. 

I owe you no explanation of course but my ego demands it, the two houses are in the names of my partner and my Thai/British biological son, my estranged wife lives in one of the house, she wrote the deeds over to my son and his mother after she had caused damages of 3 million baht that I as her husband had to pay, two houses, 3 million baht and university fees for my step daughter has taken care of my money. The IO knows a lot about one's circumstances, they know about the damages that the court demanded, they know of my wife and where she lives and about my son. I don't know what your IO is like but mine is very friendly, small, helpful, sympathetic, I have nothing but praise for the people working there and I am certainly not apprehensive about the future.

[evadgib]

56 minutes ago, Nielsk said:

Have been on Immigration Jomtien Pattaya for the 3rd consecutive day with my Danish bank statements, tax return and preliminary statement, which are my only proof of my monthly income of over 65,000 baht. They do not accept it. Only a letter from the Danish Embassy in Bangkok can be used, although I brought the message from the Embassy in English saying that they do not provide that service anymore. They demand to see 8000,000 baht in my Thaikonto 　 I'm under pressure when I will be leaving before 3rd December and rebook my return ticket, which applies otherwise 1 May 2019 ,,,,, Has contacted a Thai lawyer through a man from Finland whose thai wife referred me. She's calling me later today. She's probably my last hope ..

In your position I would contact my home parliament, media and tourist outlets re enforced separation in breach of HRA.

[HHTel]

2 hours ago, OneeyedJohn said:

I remember years ago coming to Thailand to try and get my wife's brother to come to England and go to a language school. I was a fully employed, home owner with a Thai wife holding a British Passport.

  We applied in Bangkok embassy for his visa and without going into all the details , the nett result was we failed to get his visa. It was a huge emotionally crushing blow to him, and we both were very upset. When we returned to the UK I went to my MP and complained that the embassy decision was wrong.  He took the matter up for us but eventually came back with the answer that what the embassy abroad decides cannot be changed from government departments/ ministeries in the UK.

  From that day on I have never had any faith in anything the embassies do, or claim to do.

That's completely wrong. You can appeal against any immigration decision whether you're in the UK or not.  The appeal must be made within 28 days and you can appeal online. The appeal is handled in the UK not at the embassy.

[OJAS]

17 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Yes they could increase the lump sum requirements, but as previously, they would in my opinion 'grandfather' the lump sum requirement for those existing long term stayers aged over 60.

In an exchange of PM's I had with @ubonjoe in the immediate aftermath of the British Embassy decision, however, he did warn me that I might forego any grandfathering entitlement if I were to switch to marriage based on 400k in the bank after several years of consecutive retirement extensions based on 65k monthly income. But, in present circumstances, that is a risk that I am just going to have to take.

Edited November 16, 2018 by OJAS

[carstenp]

10 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Very sorry for your  situation. As Ubon Joe mentioned- I  would call the Danish Embassy and explain your situation.

Does the Danish Embassy provide Notarial for other things such as a General Affidavit in which you can write in your income source and amounts- swear to it- and they then notarize your signature.   This is not called an Income Letter but simply a General Affidavit which can be used for  anyone that needs to make a statement.  If so- I would try this- it will have the Embassy Seal and signature . 

Good luck and if you can let us know you are all right!

You are not alone. Just arrived  to Thailand after I had to return home to Denmark. Did get  my Non 0 single entry, be cause I just want to extend it to retirement visa here in Thailand as always. Been here for 7 Years Now on retirement. I arrived the 8 and the embassy closed for the letter 14. That sucks, so now like you I have to change my ticket back to Denmark. Then get a new flight ticket back to Thailand, A new  Non O Multiply working for 15 Months. What there is strange is the thai ambassade in Copenhagen accepts you yearly income letter from Skat, but the Danish Ambassade in Thailand will not make a staement on the same letter for the immigration down here.

[evadgib]

6 minutes ago, HHTel said:

That's completely wrong. You can appeal against any immigration decision whether you're in the UK or not.  The appeal must be made within 28 days and you can appeal online. The appeal is handled in the UK not at the embassy.

Draw your own conclusion as to why that bit was left out.

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, OJAS said:

But, in present circumstances, that is a risk that I am just going to have to take.

Yes- I am in a similar situation in which I have been on many years of retirement extensions and now contemplating  using marriage  but  risking losing the grandfathering should they raise the income level.  There are so many different situations people will have to cope with and  I am sure none of the Embassies have thought the whole situation out and really understand what their actions mean. A few months warning is not enough and  what the Danish Foreign Ministry has done is unconscionable.

[BoBoTheClown]

1 hour ago, Nielsk said:

Have been on Immigration Jomtien Pattaya for the 3rd consecutive day with my Danish bank statements, tax return and preliminary statement, which are my only proof of my monthly income of over 65,000 baht. They do not accept it. Only a letter from the Danish Embassy in Bangkok can be used, although I brought the message from the Embassy in English saying that they do not provide that service anymore. They demand to see 8000,000 baht in my Thaikonto 　 I'm under pressure when I will be leaving before 3rd December and rebook my return ticket, which applies otherwise 1 May 2019 ,,,,, Has contacted a Thai lawyer through a man from Finland whose thai wife referred me. She's calling me later today. She's probably my last hope ..

What exactly did you show TI?  Can you give us what you actually presented and the numbers behind them?  Are you receiving a pension of at least 65,000 baht, for example?