Denmark Embassy Has Stopped Doing Pension Letters

[HHTel]

4 hours ago, Thaidream said:

If this  is the best our Embassies can negotiate- I would suggest they all go home. We don;t need them. 

I think you'll find that the embassies are not directly involved and are carrying out instructions from their own foreign office.

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, HHTel said:

I think you'll find that the embassies are not directly involved and are carrying out instructions from their own foreign office.

Of course they are, Thailand is driving any change that's happening.

 

Our countries thrive on things not changing, ever.

[steven2018]

Perhaps other countries are seeing the Brits and American consulates taking this action and see it as a way to limit their 'responsibility ' in this matter. KISS - keep it simple Simon.

 

 

 

 

[Thaidream]

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

don’t recall them claiming they’d met with TIB in their announcement. 

What are the U.S. Embassy and Consulate doing to ease the transition?

 We recently met with the new Commissioner of Immigration and his staff to discuss the change, and both the Embassy and Consulate General will work closely with regional immigration offices during the transition period to address any concerns.

 

The above is from the info put out from the US Embassy during their announcement. You can go to their website to verify it if you desire.

[Thaidream]

5 hours ago, HHTel said:

I think you'll find that the embassies are not directly involved and are carrying out instructions from their own foreign office.

I am sure the Embassies went back to their home offices for direction but the 'on the ground'  implementation and negotiation on transition is the responsibility of the  local Embassy.

[soalbundy]

12 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

I`ll explain and then up to you whether you except the explanation or not.

 

Going back not so long ago it was dead easy for foreigners to open Thai bank accounts, mostly just on the show of a passport with virtually no questions asked. But over the years this easy system has been abused.

 

Now Immigration are concerned about foreigners using Thai banks for money laundering, illegal incomes and criminal activities, which has been happening. There are some Thai banks and some branches of Thai banks that are flatly refusing to let foreigners open accounts with them.

 

It has become common knowledge that a large minority of expats are using corrupt agency methods to pull strings to obtain their yearly extensions for a price. Some have openly boasted about doing this on these forums.

 

Borrowing money from a Thai bank and then paying back by whatever methods, means the person does not meet the requirements of having the prescribed amounts in a Thai bank under their own right, they are borrowing from Peter to pay back Paul. Also immigration, as I`ve said want to ensure that the money foreigners have in a bank here is their own and legal.

 

Simply put, Thai immigration no longer wants cheap charlies in Thailand that are unable to meet with immigration requirements expecting everything laid on for a decent lifestyle all for free and without giving anything back in return. Thailand does not owe foreigners a comfortable standard of living, there is no such thing as a free ride in this world.

I have had a Thai bank account for years, no problem with the yellow book apparently. I have over the years brought in a lot of money into Thailand have a son here, built two houses and sent my stepdaughter to university, I fail to see how an Io can object when my partner takes out a credit using one of the houses as security and puts the money in my account, when it's paid off it is extra security for her when I die, if I die before it's fully paid off, well the money is still there.

[Guest]

On 11/14/2018 at 9:15 PM, chickenslegs said:

This part of the notice confuses me. What are these one-year visas?

 

I know this sounds pedantic, but one would expect an Embassy to be using precise and correct terminology.

 

Are they still issuing letters for extensions of stay based upon marriage/retirement?

not only does it sound pedantic it is pedantic

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I have had a Thai bank account for years, no problem with the yellow book apparently. I have over the years brought in a lot of money into Thailand have a son here, built two houses and sent my stepdaughter to university, I fail to see how an Io can object when my partner takes out a credit using one of the houses as security and puts the money in my account, when it's paid off it is extra security for her when I die, if I die before it's fully paid off, well the money is still there.

Another thing is that on TV one hears many horror stories about IO's but few if any about sympathetic IO's. Kap Choen, my IO, is, I find anyway, efficient, well run and sympathetic towards our problems and they go the extra mile to help if you don't feed them BS and show them respect, as one officer put it, we are all family men here and nobody wants to split up a decent family. I feel confident that even if all the embassy letters stop ways and means will be found to keep, at least those with children, here. Be positive and trust in life. 

[Joe Mcseismic]

It's just so easy. Do what Immigration want.

Either stump up the seasoned 800k, or, go to an agent.

Ye's it'll cost you 25k, but, isn't that better than leaving, or, for some, putting large sums in Thai banks.

The agent's money is such a small price to pay, that anyone who can't find the funds maybe shouldn't be here.

[Tanoshi]

7 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Thai immigration has been making all visas in all classes harder for years now.

Well considering Immigration only offer the Non O as a stepping stone to obtaining an extension from a Visa exempt or Tourist Visa entry, I fail to understand which Visa classes you are referring to.

[JackThompson]

18 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

It's just so easy. Do what Immigration want.

Either stump up the seasoned 800k, or, go to an agent.

Ye's it'll cost you 25k, but, isn't that better than leaving, or, for some, putting large sums in Thai banks.

The agent's money is such a small price to pay, that anyone who can't find the funds maybe shouldn't be here.

As soon as they re-write the rules such that I can pay immigration 25K, directly and in-person, with receipt, in exchange for them officially waiving the income requirements, that will be acceptable. 

 

I don't want to have my extension based on something which directly contradicts the published financial-rules, if at all possible.  In the current climate, however, violating the published-rules with a payoff seems to be immigration's preferred procedure - and the goal of this "no more embassy-letters" exercise.

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, khunPer said:

That's what one always shall remember, the lump sum could increase with inflation. Looking at history, the changes came in larger jumps, I read some time ago that it increased from 400,000 baht to 800,000 baht for extension based on retirement. That's why one shall remember to set aside, or save up, for that situation, that eventually come one day.

It was increased to 600k baht in 1998 and then 800k baht in 2003. The numbers apparently are based upon $2000 US using the exchange rate when they did the increase. The first one was 60 baht and the 2nd one at 40 baht to the dollar.

They increased it from 250k baht to 400k baht for extensions based upon marriage in 2003 with no grandfathering. They probably had a delay of the increase for one year for those on extensions already to give them time to adjust to the new requirements.

[Psychic]

11 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

It's just so easy. Do what Immigration want.

Either stump up the seasoned 800k, or, go to an agent.

Ye's it'll cost you 25k, but, isn't that better than leaving, or, for some, putting large sums in Thai banks.

The agent's money is such a small price to pay, that anyone who can't find the funds maybe shouldn't be here.

Are you saying that you should pay someone to deliberately break the law for you.

 

Because (I've never used one but I assume the agent would find a "workaround" by either faking you ability of having 800K to deposit or perhaps using some if the 25K to find a "compliant" IO."

 

This certainly doesn't jive with all your previous posts saying TI is just trying to eliminate scammers since the agent would necessarily be abetting scamming.

 

The fact is that TI has decided, without notice, without even a statement to not accept embassy letters that they previously did.

 

That is their right if they actually thought there was a high degree of cheating.

 

If they believed there was only a few scammers there are far better ways of rectifying the situation. As I've mentioned before fast tracking long time expats who have always been in compliance and getting rid of the mountains of paperwork and senseless 90 day check ins would enable them to reallocate manpower looking for the real scammers.

 

You know, real immigration work instead of countless hours rubber stamping multiple copies of useless paperwork that ends up in a warehouse somewhere.

 

Clearly that seems beyond their capability.

 

But this mess they are creating is actually going to affect real people and families.

 

As one poster pointed out the immediate end of letters from the Danes means that even if he wanted to make a lump sum deposit the seasoning requirement won't allow him time to do that.

 

There is no provision for bank deposits to be used as proof and even if there was most people don't make regular 65000 deposits every month so a back check on that wouldn't work.

 

As you are won't to point out they can change the rules anytime they want. But they haven't actually changed the rules they have just made them unworkable.

 

And they have ducked all responsibility for the consequences.

 

This piecemeal declaration of one embassy after another is pathetic.

 

Wasn't it possible for TI to have meetings with all embassies. Find those who they thought were using acceptable methods and issuing a statement saying that XXX embassies are unable to meet TI standards regarding income letters. The letters from these embassies will no longer be issued after July 1 2019 or accepted by TI after Dec.31 2019.

 

Applicants who have previously used this method will need to deposit the required amount in a Thai bank or use.........(fill in the blank) method of verifying income for all visas or extensions beginning Jan. 1 2020.

 

Yes, some "scammers" would get a little longer time but it would be immaterial compared to clarifying regulations going forward for everyone else and allowing them to take the appropriate measures.

 

This, of course, would require a degree of planning, professionalism and forethought.

 

As the different rules at different offices show this clearly is impossible to achieve (they really should stop calling it THAI Immigration until every office in Thailand conforms to the same procedures).

 

[WorriedNoodle]

55 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

go to an agent.

Ye's it'll cost you 25k, but, isn't that better

How this is better is beyond my comprehension. Why would anyone give an agent 25k and be at risk of getting caught out breaking the rules, when it only legally costs 1900THB to do an extension in person yourself? Yes, you need 400 or 800k Thai bank balance but not all year and you can spend into that rest of year and run it to zero if needed - the money is all yours not an agents. No way am I going to pay an agent.

[evadgib]

9 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I agree they should - would also be the decent and moral thing to do. 

But they haven't offered long-timers a reasonable PR option - even married with family - because they don't want us to be able to stay beyond a very limited "usefulness" value.  If one occupies a Thai's potential job for some years, and recycles existing money instead of importing new foreign-capital money, then maybe, but it's not easy - about as hard as citizenship, if one is married to a Thai.

They could create a new category of PR complete with grandfathering easily enough although I'm fully aware of the absence of common sence in all thing govt.

[luckyluke]

27 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I can pay immigration 25K, directly and in-person, with receipt

Years ago I was asked 200 ThB at immigration for a document which was supposed to be free.

I paid and asked for a receipt,

sure said the officer, you want an official or a non-official one ? he said

I asked what's the difference ?

None was the answer.

We both laughed with it.

I left with the document I needed, 200 ThB less in my pocket and no receipt. 

[jackdd]

22 minutes ago, Psychic said:

But they haven't actually changed the rules they have just made them unworkable.

I don't really know what the exact requirements from the immigration are because some sources write this, others that, just a true verification of the income (a) or a guarantee for the future (b)

a) Would be possible the embassies just don't want to do it

b) Could be impossible, but depends on the exact conditions

Edited November 16, 2018 by jackdd

[watcharacters]

20 hours ago, soalbundy said:

no because they never look at them, just the embassy letter

 

This is a circle.    My claim, as in speculating/ foretelling, is as time goes by all embassies will discontinue/stop issuing income affidavit letters as they will be useless.    TI has increasingly shown  an interest in proof of required funds to remain in Thailand.

 

And I believe any documents required for proof of income will, if not already  required, require translation.

 

That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it until proven wrong.    

 

[TKDfella]

One the one hand there is yet no evidence of other changes from Thai immigration and hoping that October now behind us no more new regulations. On the other hand I don't know if immigration is tied to the fiscal year end (March, I think). In which case could be more to come. But what am I saying, this is jantaland and they will do what they want, when they want. I've come full circle...I think. 

[Joe Mcseismic]

51 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

As soon as they re-write the rules such that I can pay immigration 25K, directly and in-person, with receipt, in exchange for them officially waiving the income requirements, that will be acceptable. 

 

I don't want to have my extension based on something which directly contradicts the published financial-rules, if at all possible.  In the current climate, however, violating the published-rules with a payoff seems to be immigration's preferred procedure - and the goal of this "no more embassy-letters" exercise.

You want to cut off your nose to spite your face, that's up to you.

[Joe Mcseismic]

28 minutes ago, Psychic said:

Are you saying that you should pay someone to deliberately break the law for you.

 

Because (I've never used one but I assume the agent would find a "workaround" by either faking you ability of having 800K to deposit or perhaps using some if the 25K to find a "compliant" IO."

 

This certainly doesn't jive with all your previous posts saying TI is just trying to eliminate scammers since the agent would necessarily be abetting scamming.

 

The fact is that TI has decided, without notice, without even a statement to not accept embassy letters that they previously did.

 

That is their right if they actually thought there was a high degree of cheating.

 

If they believed there was only a few scammers there are far better ways of rectifying the situation. As I've mentioned before fast tracking long time expats who have always been in compliance and getting rid of the mountains of paperwork and senseless 90 day check ins would enable them to reallocate manpower looking for the real scammers.

 

You know, real immigration work instead of countless hours rubber stamping multiple copies of useless paperwork that ends up in a warehouse somewhere.

 

Clearly that seems beyond their capability.

 

But this mess they are creating is actually going to affect real people and families.

 

As one poster pointed out the immediate end of letters from the Danes means that even if he wanted to make a lump sum deposit the seasoning requirement won't allow him time to do that.

 

There is no provision for bank deposits to be used as proof and even if there was most people don't make regular 65000 deposits every month so a back check on that wouldn't work.

 

As you are won't to point out they can change the rules anytime they want. But they haven't actually changed the rules they have just made them unworkable.

 

And they have ducked all responsibility for the consequences.

 

This piecemeal declaration of one embassy after another is pathetic.

 

Wasn't it possible for TI to have meetings with all embassies. Find those who they thought were using acceptable methods and issuing a statement saying that XXX embassies are unable to meet TI standards regarding income letters. The letters from these embassies will no longer be issued after July 1 2019 or accepted by TI after Dec.31 2019.

 

Applicants who have previously used this method will need to deposit the required amount in a Thai bank or use.........(fill in the blank) method of verifying income for all visas or extensions beginning Jan. 1 2020.

 

Yes, some "scammers" would get a little longer time but it would be immaterial compared to clarifying regulations going forward for everyone else and allowing them to take the appropriate measures.

 

This, of course, would require a degree of planning, professionalism and forethought.

 

As the different rules at different offices show this clearly is impossible to achieve (they really should stop calling it THAI Immigration until every office in Thailand conforms to the same procedures).

 

They are not breaking the law. You can borrow money from anyone and each individual immigration officer has the power to waive the seasoning period. So.......what's illegal?

[offset]

1 minute ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

They are not breaking the law. You can borrow money from anyone and each individual immigration officer has the power to waive the seasoning period. So.......what's illegal?

If the immigration officer receives money to waive the seasoning period

[Joe Mcseismic]

5 minutes ago, offset said:

If the immigration officer receives money to waive the seasoning period

That's between the agent and the IO. Nothing to do with you. You are breaking no laws.

Of course......you always have the seasoned 800k route, if you so choose.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Joe Mcseismic

[Wallander4]

Not surprised Danish Embassy pull this sh.t - They are also breaking EU rules when thais apply for Schengen visa. This has been forwarded to EU already and are waiting further action

[zydeco]

16 hours ago, gintis0604 said:

Time to leave Thailand for westeners. 

The general will be happy with only Cheap Charlie Chineses as guests. 

There are plenty of other countries which welcome us. 

The Chinese are not just guests. They will never be just guests. See what is happening in Laos.  The Chinese just move in and start taking over. On my newsfeed some months ago, I saw an article that stated some 200,000 to 400,000 Chinese had moved into Laos and started up operations. This, in a country of less than 7 million people. How long before they start squatting in northern Thailand permanently?

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

This is a circle.    My claim, as in speculating/ foretelling, is as time goes by all embassies will discontinue/stop issuing income affidavit letters as they will be useless.    TI has increasingly shown  an interest in proof of required funds to remain in Thailand.

 

And I believe any documents required for proof of income will, if not already  required, require translation.

 

That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it until proven wrong.    

 

I doubt that, the embassy letter is so easy for them, I did my extension yesterday, presented a folder with proof, bank statements,pension letter, company pension etc with the embassy letter on top. My proofs were all in German but that didn't bother him because he didn't look at them, picked up the embassy letter, read it, ''British passport and German embassy letter'' ??   ''I've lived most of my life in Germany''  ''Oh, OK'' 25 minutes later I walked out with my new extension.

[soalbundy]

6 hours ago, ukrules said:

Of course they are, Thailand is driving any change that's happening.

 

Our countries thrive on things not changing, ever.

and yet change is the only certainty in life. Life is the place where all your plans collapse.

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

That's between the agent and the IO. Nothing to do with you. You are breaking no laws.

That's what you'd like to believe.

You are in fact aiding and abetting corruption because you knew an illegal transaction was taking place.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

That's what you'd like to believe.

You are in fact aiding and abetting corruption because you knew an illegal transaction was taking place.

Really ?  how awful, I can't believe the agent did that.

[JackThompson]

 

20 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

That's between the agent and the IO. Nothing to do with you. You are breaking no laws.

Assuming one can play the "ignorance of the law actually is is an excuse," card, if a time of reckoning arrives.  There are 3 very clearly defined means of stay, and the "money in the bank" portion requires seasoning.  To quote an IO speaking to someone who had never heard of the TM-30 requirement, "You are required to know and abide by Thai laws." (then, they paid the landlord's fine, in order to get their extension).

 

Also, being the beneficiary of an illegal action, even if not directly involved in it, would not put one in a good position.

 

27 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

They are not breaking the law. You can borrow money from anyone and each individual immigration officer has the power to waive the seasoning period. So.......what's illegal?

Only those with higher rank can waive the seasoning (or any of the requirements), legally.  I would surmise that it is precisely because higher-rank persons are involved, that this system of bribery has been stable for so long.  Maybe it will continue indefinitely.  Who knows?

 

29 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

You want to cut off your nose to spite your face, that's up to you.

So far, I can work around the problem by getting a legal Visa.  When the agent-money pocket-stuffers put an end to that option (likely, if they feel money is slipping through their fingers via this method), I'll have to reconsider my options.  Getting a visa by defying the rules is at the bottom of my option-list.

Edited November 16, 2018 by JackThompson