What is your method to stay here (changes in the embassy letters)

[HampiK]

7 hours ago, dontoearth said:

It would be nice if they had a category in the survey which said, "limiting my trips so not worrying about long term visa anymore."

I think this could be addressed with "I am a Tourist" which in my opinion is more or less the same

 

 

8 hours ago, wolf81 said:

I use a Thai Elite visa, I feel it should have been a separate option in this poll.

 

To me it feels like the most convenient option short of a "work visa", even better than Marriage visa. No need for income proof, no need to leave the country and hopefully can do the 90 day reporting online after going to immigration office only the first time. 

 

I got the 5 year program for now, but if all goes well, will be looking for the 20-year version in 4.5 years. To me seems like a really good deal.

Yes this is an option which I was not thinking of. At a later stage you always have a better view of what should be asked.

 

 

20 hours ago, KittenKong said:

It's a bit late but an option 6 should have been included: "I just pay an agent to do it all". I know many people who do this.

Even when you use an agent, you will use on of the other visa types. One exception would be many the option:

- I use an agent for the 400K/800K without having the money myself

 

But I am not sure if someone really would use this method if he really want admit if, even the poll has no names on it...

 

Thanks for the Input so far… and sad it's not possible to add extra options at a later stage, else I think I would add the 2 option:

- Elite Visa

- Use agent for 400K/800K without having money myself

[Andycoops]

From Jan 19 I will xfer money, 40k per month into my Thai bank acct.

[Issanjohn]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It seems as if you intentionally misread what I've been posting here.

The main thing was the very recent report from the head of Jomtien immigration.

The reference to Barry Kenyan was much older and secondary.

In any case I wish you and everyone else the best of luck with their immigration matters.

Cheerio.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Actually what I’m saying is facts put out by Thai Immigration Bureau Officials who have put out much different guidance to the US Embassy, so actually I think you are intentionally ignoring actual facts.  The US Embassy sent me the following email and this is an exact quote from the embassy regarding the guidance that immigration has given them and it says something very similar posted on their website:

“The Bureau of Thai Immigration headquarters has confirmed with us that they will support early renewals and that they would recognize the income affidavit for up to six months from when the affidavit is completed going into the new year.” 

 

That’s an exact quote from the US Embassy put out to the US Embassy by the high level immigration Officials when they communicated with each other about this.  I just copied that from their email which is why it’s in blue.  I don’t know maybe immigration is making it tougher on you Brits for some reason because I’m not sure if that “official guidance” which was put out by Thai Immigration Bureau Officials to my embassy actually applies to just US citizens or all citizens.  I hope it applies to everyone including you Brits but I don’t know.  I do know that some random article posted by some ex British government employee is definitely not official guidance lol.

 

But I hope everything works out for you all as well as us.  Immigration hasn’t actually made any official statements accept to the embassies so I don’t know what you mean by what the head of Jomtien Immigration said because they haven’t actually said anything accept for the official guidance they have given to the embassies.  

 

Regardless I don’t have time to argue about misinformation.  My immigration office informed me in person that they would accept my income affidavit in January 2019 yesterday when I visited them to have my stamps transferred to my new passport.  

 

Cheerio ????

 

[walkoff]

Same as others stated above. Direct deposit of pension and Social to my bank back home who I have dealt with for 30 years, go to ATM 4 times monthly and pull out what I need for here. Income is substantially more than the 65k p/month for retirement. I am refunded up to 4 bank fees from home bank but still pay that 220B over here. Call home bank and increase my ATM withdrawal limit and off I go happily paying rent, school fees for daughter, utilities, 3B, VAT.......14yrs now. As many have said, TI needs to give us some answers. 800k in the bank is not an option for us. So, if it goes pear shaped then we head home, daughter would most likely have to regress a grade(she is in M5 now and would graduate in 2020) and get used to the changes back home. Very difficult to look on the bright side these days.

[KittenKong]

9 hours ago, wolf81 said:

I use a Thai Elite visa, I feel it should have been a separate option in this poll.

To me it feels like the most convenient option short of a "work visa", even better than Marriage visa. No need for income proof, no need to leave the country and hopefully can do the 90 day reporting online after going to immigration office only the first time.

I got the 5 year program for now, but if all goes well, will be looking for the 20-year version in 4.5 years. To me seems like a really good deal. 

So you pay 500,000B as a one-off fee and you call that a "good deal" when compared to depositing 800,000B and paying just a couple of thousand Baht total per year in fees for a retirement extension or depositing half that, with similar fees, for a marriage extension?

 

Looks like a terrible deal to me. Both the alternatives require no income proof and no need to leave the country.

 

I would say that the Thai Elite Visa is possibly suitable for single people under 50 with a lot of money to burn, but of little or no interest to anyone else.
And I cant help thinking that if I was under 50, single and had a lot of money to burn then Thailand would not be where I would choose to burn it.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, HampiK said:

Even when you use an agent, you will use on of the other visa types. One exception would be many the option:

- I use an agent for the 400K/800K without having the money myself

That was the case I was thinking of. I know many people who do this. In fact I know more people who do it that way than I know people who do it the official way.

 

1 hour ago, HampiK said:

Thanks for the Input so far… and sad it's not possible to add extra options at a later stage, else I think I would add the 2 option:

- Elite Visa

- Use agent for 400K/800K without having money myself

Is the Elite Visa really a valid alternative for people who are currently using the income method (which is only available for those on a retirement or marriage extension)?

As I pointed out in my reply immediately above this one, who in his right mind would pay 500,000B as a fee for an extension that he can easily get by just depositing 800,000B or 400,000B? No one, I suspect.

 

[GeorgeCross]

1 hour ago, KiChakayan said:

I am not sure there is as much "schadenfreude" around here as you seem to think. Some of us try to understand the prospective of the Thai authorities, which is likely to be "we don't want to import poverty from other countries". Even though household incomes as low as 30000 Bahts are probably still a majority here, we all know how close to the poverty line this is, so why would Thailand need to import more problems?

 

just to be clear 30K is not low for those that own accommodation and transport.

 

1K per day on bills and food if you are a homely person is definitely hard to spend consistently unless one has a penchant for smoked salmon sandwiches.

 

going out golfing, whoring and drinking eats up the moolah though!

 

maybe thats what immigration wants 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by GeorgeCross

[armadillo215]

What everyone seems to be disregarding or not remembering from Udom Joe's post is TI was asking the various embassies is they were verifying the income claimed in the letter. They were/are not. Although I understand some embassies do require some proof at least the US does not. That's why the US added to it's original letter the sentence "The U S Embassy does not guarantee the contents of my own sworn statement". So I can't see TI needing to make any changes to their policy. It will probably remain the same.

I use the income method and my retirement income is well above the required amount however I have never transferred my retirement income to Thailand every month. I usually keep between ฿250,000 and ฿450,00 in the bank to live off of and when it gets down to ฿250,00 I transfer enough to bring it back up. So I may only make 3 or 4 transfers a year.

I am married and have been for 5 years now but found going the retirement route to be much easier but will now change.

[marcusarelus]

13 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Another member of the "if you don't like it, go home" brigade.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Then why continue to post things that aren't true like, " Thai authorities sure do have a hostile attitude to foreigners."

 

If you have much experience with international living you will know that all said and done Thailand is in the top of expat retirement destinations and ease of government control is up at the top of the list.  My pension arrives promptly at a Thai bank monthly and they notify me immediately.  I spend 15 minutes or so at Immigration yearly and my money has been secure and in an interest bearing account here in Thailand for 20 years and all for a much better lifestyle than the same cash would buy me in the West. Medical care is great.  House is new.  Air is cleaned by ocean breezes and my Thai dog is a loyal friend. 

 

The West is very expensive.  Thailand is a pittance for the same level of things that matter to me.  Why would it not be an appropriate solution to go home rather than expect Thailand to conform to your wishes?  The mountain is not going to come to Mohammad no matter how long he waits.  Thailand will not conform to your will so you must conform to Thailand.  This does not take a brain trust to figure out. What good does whining about it do? 

[marcusarelus]

15 minutes ago, armadillo215 said:

What everyone seems to be disregarding or not remembering from Udom Joe's post is TI was asking the various embassies is they were verifying the income claimed in the letter. They were/are not. Although I understand some embassies do require some proof at least the US does not. That's why the US added to it's original letter the sentence "The U S Embassy does not guarantee the contents of my own sworn statement". So I can't see TI needing to make any changes to their policy. It will probably remain the same.

I use the income method and my retirement income is well above the required amount however I have never transferred my retirement income to Thailand every month. I usually keep between ฿250,000 and ฿450,00 in the bank to live off of and when it gets down to ฿250,00 I transfer enough to bring it back up. So I may only make 3 or 4 transfers a year.

I am married and have been for 5 years now but found going the retirement route to be much easier but will now change.

I'm assuming you spend at least 800,000 per year.  Seems it would be easier to transfer it once a year rather than change to a marriage extension seeing the problems that creates as opposed to a retirement extension. 

[Moonlover]

3 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

As said it need to be renewed before expiration date of current permitted to stay.  Yes if officially married you could get a different 2 month extension at same price with spouse and official paperwork - but these is no additional time allowed on any extension of stay.

 

Only a marriage with paperwork registered at a local District Office is accepted.  If foreign marriage paperwork still needs to be recorded here of that marriage.

 

There is no current 65k per month into bank account method - either 800k in bank account or Embassy letter of income of more than 65k or a combination to meet 800k per year. 

This last paragraph is somewhat misleading. There is, currently a 65k per month method. What is not clear is how it will be proven once the embassy letters have expired.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Moonlover

[KittenKong]

23 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Medical care is great.  House is new.  Air is cleaned by ocean breezes and my Thai dog is a loyal friend.

The West is very expensive.  Thailand is a pittance for the same level of things that matter to me. 

I would say that medical care here is variable and often very expensive. Building construction is generally of very poor quality and a lot of property is seriously overpriced. I live on Jomtien beach and the air is not very clean. Nice to hear about your dog though: clearly much more reliable than the humans are.

As for the cost of things, I find that most manufactured/processed items cost more here than they do in the west, and the choice of such items is tiny here compared to what I get in the west. Labour-intensive services, and related items like car insurance, do generally cost less here than they do in the west, but that's about all.

[ratcatcher]

At 930 today I spoke with the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok. They confirmed that they are still issuing sworn affidavits of income.

Apparently the Immigration Dept will only accept the monthly income method if an affidavit is produced. Has it been confirmed that the 65k-40K funds must be deposited in a Thai bank every month or is it merely proof of overseas income as has always been the case?

[skatewash]

8 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

At 930 today I spoke with the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok. They confirmed that they are still issuing sworn affidavits of income.

Apparently the Immigration Dept will only accept the monthly income method if an affidavit is produced. Has it been confirmed that the 65k-40K funds must be deposited in a Thai bank every month or is it merely proof of overseas income as has always been the case?

Good news about the Canadian Embassy.  I hope it's the same news tomorrow morning at 9:30 am.  What I'm getting at is that the British, American, Australian, and Danish Embassies were all still issuing letters of income until the day they announced they would no longer do that beyond a certain date.  Past performance is no guarantee of future performance as they say in the financial services industry.

Currently, Thai Immigration will only accept the income method if it is accompanied by an embassy income letter.  That may change, but if it does the announcement will come from Thai Immigration not from foreign embassies (lots of wishful thinking going on at those).  There may, in fact, be no announcement from Thai Immigration in which case you will have to wait for the first report of someone getting an extension of stay using the income method without an embassy income letter.  And then hopefully you will hear a report of someone getting that at your particular Thai Immigration office since immigration offices are not known for demonstrating country-wide consistency in terms of policy.

I personally hope people will be able to use the income method however that might evolve going forward, but if I depended on this particular method I would be looking at whether I could afford to do the money-in-the-bank method rather than the income or combination methods.  Both of these latter methods have a huge question mark next to them at the present moment, at least in my mind.

[NoshowJones]

46 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Then why continue to post things that aren't true like, " Thai authorities sure do have a hostile attitude to foreigners."

 

If you have much experience with international living you will know that all said and done Thailand is in the top of expat retirement destinations and ease of government control is up at the top of the list.  My pension arrives promptly at a Thai bank monthly and they notify me immediately.  I spend 15 minutes or so at Immigration yearly and my money has been secure and in an interest bearing account here in Thailand for 20 years and all for a much better lifestyle than the same cash would buy me in the West. Medical care is great.  House is new.  Air is cleaned by ocean breezes and my Thai dog is a loyal friend. 

 

The West is very expensive.  Thailand is a pittance for the same level of things that matter to me.  Why would it not be an appropriate solution to go home rather than expect Thailand to conform to your wishes?  The mountain is not going to come to Mohammad no matter how long he waits.  Thailand will not conform to your will so you must conform to Thailand.  This does not take a brain trust to figure out. What good does whining about it do? 

This is a public forum and we all give our opinions, I am well aware that Thai immigration will not conform to our wishes, some of us have bad experiences with them, and some of us haven't. I was accused of having a 25 day overstay and questioned about my wifes work when doing my retirement extension 90 day report.

It was all sorted out quickly, and no apology was given. If that was not a hostile attitude, then I don't know what was.

There are posts here from people who have been well treated by Thai immigration and also of people who have not, feel free to disagree with me, but don't use the word "whining" when I was only giving my opinion.

[marcusarelus]

37 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

This is a public forum and we all give our opinions, I am well aware that Thai immigration will not conform to our wishes, some of us have bad experiences with them, and some of us haven't. I was accused of having a 25 day overstay and questioned about my wifes work when doing my retirement extension 90 day report.

It was all sorted out quickly, and no apology was given. If that was not a hostile attitude, then I don't know what was.

There are posts here from people who have been well treated by Thai immigration and also of people who have not, feel free to disagree with me, but don't use the word "whining" when I was only giving my opinion.

So what method are you using to stay in Thailand?  Or do you not stay in Thailand full time? 

[NoshowJones]

4 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

So what method are you using to stay in Thailand?  Or do you not stay in Thailand full time? 

Let's just say I have not done a 90 Day report personally since that hostile attitude.

[HampiK]

3 hours ago, KittenKong said:

That was the case I was thinking of. I know many people who do this. In fact I know more people who do it that way than I know people who do it the official way.

 

Is the Elite Visa really a valid alternative for people who are currently using the income method (which is only available for those on a retirement or marriage extension)?

As I pointed out in my reply immediately above this one, who in his right mind would pay 500,000B as a fee for an extension that he can easily get by just depositing 800,000B or 400,000B? No one, I suspect.

 

I think there are a few people, which like some of the benefits which comes with the Elite Visa. If you only use it for the purpose of come around to put money in the bank then I guess less… But at the end I still believe that we also here have some TV members which use the Elite Visa, because they have the money and for them this gives a few extra benefits which are nice.

They probably not care about this money that much.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

Let's just say I have not done a 90 Day report personally since that hostile attitude.

This thread is about, "What is your method to stay here."  Why are you posting in it?

[NoshowJones]

9 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

This thread is about, "What is your method to stay here."  Why are you posting in it?

Just answering other posters posts, is that not allowed? So you are saying that posters should only post on this topic to explain what their method is to stay here?

This debate is now over. I will not be answering any more of your'e posts on this topic.

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Just answering other posters posts, is that not allowed? So you are saying that posters should only post on this topic to explain what their method is to stay here?

This debate is now over. I will not be answering any more of your'e posts on this topic.

No you were not.  You were posting your own dissatisfaction with the BE new rules by posting, "As a guy married to a Thai national, I could put 400.000 baht in the bank, but I do not agree with it, why I should, I have bought a house, cars and motorbikes, contributed to the Thai economy."  With 7000 posts on this subject I do think staying on topic would be in order to facilitate the reading and understanding of new information for those interested in learning as opposed to complaining. 

[NoshowJones]

9 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

No you were not.  You were posting your own dissatisfaction with the BE new rules by posting, "As a guy married to a Thai national, I could put 400.000 baht in the bank, but I do not agree with it, why I should, I have bought a house, cars and motorbikes, contributed to the Thai economy."  With 7000 posts on this subject I do think staying on topic would be in order to facilitate the reading and understanding of new information for those interested in learning as opposed to complaining. 

????

[wgdanson]

17 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Another member of the "if you don't like it, go home" brigade.

Welcome to my ignore list.

So Mr Possum, what would you say to a 'foreigner' who settled in England, but then decided that he didn't like the rules for staying there?

[melvinmelvin]

On 11/15/2018 at 5:41 AM, rubik101 said:

There must be hundreds of residents who have been here for many years who have relied on the letters of income from the embassies. Many of them will have been here for many years, be married and have dependent children/families, etc. If they do not have 400k or 800k in the bank they will be in real difficulties when it comes to renewing their Non O visa. If the Thai gov't insist on the bank deposit then I fear many people will be forced to leave if they are unable to raise that amount of money when on a fixed pension income. There needs to be a solution from the Thai Immigration Service and it needs to be published very soon.

Thai authorities, as far as I understand, do not insist on 800/bank,

they would be happy with an embassy letter verifying income.

 

(I still think that this could be largely solved by some clever wordsmithing,

 finding the words the embassies feel they can sign and which meets OK with TI)

 

but it must be done soon,

as time passes trenches get deeper and more face has to be rescued

 

 

 

[mercman24]

just doing ssome calculations the UK pension basic is 164.35 pounds equal to about 27,127 baht, well under the 65,000 requirement, which would equate out to 1,520 pounds a month a rediculous sum, that s over 18,000 UK pounds a year i have enhanced pension but still under the 800,00,  (by 210,000) (but savings in the UK) i have done the embassy letter in the past, i bet not many UK ex pats have an income of over 65,00 baht per month,  feel sorry for those who are on the  basic rate.stands back and waits for the boasters, in the UK i had a good life style on my pension drove a Merc nice motorbike, and i enjoy a better lifestyle here but no where near the 65,000 they think we all have as loose change

Edited November 16, 2018 by mercman24

[kokesaat]

I've been here uninterrupted (reentry visas, no breaks in visa extension) since 1996.  I've mostly used the embassy letter for my renewals, but have used 800k parked in a bank on a few occasions.

I've read that if you were here previous to ??1998??, you only need 200k in a Thai bank account for your renewals.

My question:  does anyone have personal experience renewing their extension with only 200k (as an old-timer)?   

[Saladin]

21 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

A very egoist suggestion . I suppose it would work for you, but what about those :

- who don't have a pension when retired

- who are not in age to get their pension
- whose country will refuse to pay the pension in Thailand

- who are not retired and/or will never have a pension

etc.

Then they shouldn't get a Retirement Visa

[Saladin]

21 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

A very egoist suggestion . I suppose it would work for you, but what about those :

- who don't have a pension when retired

- who are not in age to get their pension
- whose country will refuse to pay the pension in Thailand

- who are not retired and/or will never have a pension

etc.

Actually I am viewing this from Thailand's perspective - not through the eyes of an expat. My suggestions just seem to make good business sense - foreign currency for no effort.

 

[Pattaya46]

37 minutes ago, Saladin said:

Then they shouldn't get a Retirement Visa

It's not a "Retirement Visa" but a Visa (or rather Extension) for being over 50 yo.

There is no requirement to be retired to get it.

[Joe Mcseismic]

23 hours ago, Saladin said:

 

Regular pension payments coming into this country must be the easiest source of foreign currency that Thailand can get. It costs the country nothing to collect and every dollar, euro, pound or yen gets spent here. It seems to me that Thailand should forget about the 800,000B p.a. requirement and instead should happily give Retirement Visas to anybody whose pension (usually around 50,000B) is paid directly into a Thai bank account. So that retirees don't become a burden on the state they should have to demonstrate that they have X amount of health cover, either from a foreign or a Thai insurance company.  

Whoa! Not only should Thai immigration take your advice, but, do it happily, too.