What is your method to stay here (changes in the embassy letters)

[animalmagic]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

The big issue for some/many is the legal aspect if forced to hold money is their name only account - first hurdle is actually getting the account - once that obtained funding (are there going to be extra requirements) - but then the big issue is what happens on death - Thai banks do not have a pay on death provision available so if married there could be international legal issues about who gets what and months involved.  Even with a valid will payment must wait for legal process.  More headaches for those who are supposed to not have to face such difficulties; and their survivors.

I'm not an expert but a lawyer friend did advise me that it is better to have a will for each country/jurisdiction where you have assets.  Apparently it is quicker to get probate if the assets are not linked to overseas assets in the same will, as this creates the need to get probate on all items of the will before it can be acted on.  The will can only be actioned in one country at a time.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I just read a credible report from JOMTIEN immigration (reports of interviews with the head chief) that starting next year Jomtien will only be accepting 800K bank applications for retirement and income letters will NOT be accepted at all after Jan 2019. So letters or not letters, the income method (and of course the combination method as well) OVER.

The removal of the income method (or combination method) will oblige more people to use the deposit method, and many of those people might be tempted to do so via an agent rather than actually deposit their own cash.
So cynics might suspect that Immigration has a vested interest in ditching the income method.

[sqwakvfr]

Plan A:  New O-A from LA Thai Consulate

Plan B:  500K 5 Year Elite Visa

Plan C.  Become a wandering Nomad to various Asian Nation on 90 Day Visa Exempt in Malaysia, S. Korea or Japan

Plan D.  Go to one of thoes magic Visa Agencies in the South.

 

Plan F. Become an Uber Eats Driver in LA.

[perconrad]

I am Danish and have been using the income letter for retirement extension since 2006, but next year I will use THB 400,000 in a bank for a married extension. Up here in Sisaket I have not seen any visa agents, someone know about any?

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by perconrad

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

The big issue for some/many is the legal aspect if forced to hold money is their name only account - first hurdle is actually getting the account - once that obtained funding (are there going to be extra requirements) - but then the big issue is what happens on death - Thai banks do not have a pay on death provision available so if married there could be international legal issues about who gets what and months involved. 

A Krungsri MTD account + debit card could be a way around that hurdle.

 

3 hours ago, turgid said:

I use 800K method. I use it for all my Thailand banking and then top it back up once a year 100 Days before my Visa is due.   I only get 0.5% interest on the funds but I dont get any other transfer fees, credit card fees, ATM withdrawal, exchange rate  fees etc.  

The same account (paying 1.3%) + debit card would suit you too.

[Pattaya46]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I just read a credible report from JOMTIEN immigration (reports of interviews with the head chief) that starting next year Jomtien will only be accepting 800K bank applications for retirement and income letters will NOT be accepted at all after Jan 2019. So letters or not letters, the income method (and of course the combination method as well) OVER.

For me it's not credible at all... 

Jomtien  always displays many boards/displays in their Office for all important changes. Still many of them for TM.30, TM.28, overstay, etc... but still nothing (AFAIK) for a future change on Extensions...

Also I just can't believe that the TI would make such an important change without a notice of at least 3 months...

So I will believe it only when I will be able to read it. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Pattaya46

[offset]

3 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

A Krungsri MTD account + debit card could be a way around that hurdle.

 

The same account (paying 1.3%) + debit card would suit you too.

You have to be careful on this account there are restrictions can only withdraw 2 times a month without having to pay 50 baht for each extra withdraw, it is only 0.6 under 500000 baht and you pay tax if you interest is over 20000 baht per year

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

For me it's not credible at all... 

Jomtien  always displays many boards/displays in their Office for all important changes. Still many of them for TM.30, TM.28, overstay, etc... but still nothing (AFAIK) for a future change on Extensions...

Also I just can't believe that the TI would make such an important change without a notice of at least 3 months...

So I will believe it only when I will be able to read it. 

It's fine with me if you regard it that way.

No skin off my arse, dude.

As I did post it, I stand by my assertion that I consider the source of what I posted HIGHLY CREDIBLE. 

I'm not compelling anyone else to necessarily believe me as I get it, that's asking a lot. I'm not giving the linked source, I'm telling you I trust the person that posted it, and then people would need to trust my judgement in trusting that person.

Cheers.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jingthing

[KittenKong]

15 minutes ago, offset said:

You have to be careful on this account there are restrictions can only withdraw 2 times a month without having to pay 50 baht for each extra withdraw, it is only 0.6 under 500000 baht and you pay tax if you interest is over 20000 baht per year

True, but none of that would seem to be an issue for an 800kB retirement deposit.

And I think the lower interest rate applies below 100,000B rather than below 500,000B.

[korkenzieher]

Option 5 might be better written as 'Consider whether still I want to'. I'm actively considering leaving, even though I have just got a new extension based on an Embassy letter. It seems to me that one might consider the 'writing to be on the wall'. It is getting hard enough to jump though the hoops now. God only knows what other changes may make it impossible, and at a time when changing tack will be much harder for me / us. Relocating has definitely become an option for me. If I stay - and it really has become an 'if' - then it will probably be the 800/400k method. But the simple fact that I cannot accrue any rights to stay here is becoming more of a barrier to continuing to do so.

[KittenKong]

15 minutes ago, offset said:

You have to be careful on this account there are restrictions can only withdraw 2 times a month without having to pay 50 baht for each extra withdraw, it is only 0.6 under 500000 baht and you pay tax if you interest is over 20000 baht per year

True, but none of that would seem to be an issue for an 800kB retirement deposit.

And I think the lower interest rate applies below 100,000B rather than below 500,000B.

[offset]

2 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

True, but none of that would seem to be an issue for an 800kB retirement deposit.

And I think the lower interest rate applies below 100,000B rather than below 500,000B.

yes you are correct it is 100000B

[pmarlin]

Up until now it was the income letter but for now on 800,000 baht in the Bank. Already deposited the money in a Thai Bank.

[totally thaied up]

I am on my 3rd marriage extension. The first was done with income and the last two with 400K. My wife told me outright to keep 400K in the bank as she saw this was at some stage going to come to a crashing end. She just told me too many ways for someone to expose the loopholes in the income method and the Thais at some stage would wise up to this.

 

I will keep using the 400K method. I just bring in 20K a month to live off and show the funds going into my account. We live outside of Chiang Mai and it is an easy, cheap life. My wife has two jobs and recently, we cannot spend any more then 20-25K a month even if we tried. Before I was spending 50K a month but we just stopped going out, eating out most nights and just started home cooking and wow, didn't things get cheaper. Cut 40 percent off my bill. I think the 800/400K method is going to be the way of the future. 400K is a cheap visa/extension for a year but as long as they do not increase it. I was before spending 50K a year in doing Visa runs or the such to stay in Country. 

 

Those that are worried about doing the 800K, well it is up to you if you don't want to put the money in the bank. Maybe live between a few different countries and live on doing Visa runs. I did this for seven years and had a pretty good time till I found my wife. Moving between weather cycles, going to Vietnam or the Philippines when times are good is fun but none of these places have the infrastructure of Thailand. Change of scene, change of food is good. This year, I plan to be doing more of this for a few weeks at a time.

[luckyluke]

No concrete plans yet, my renewal of extension is early February latest. 

 

I got the confirmation today, from the Austrian Honorary Consul General from Pattaya, that his office will still continue to issue a " Letter of Income" for Austrians, Belgians, Dutch, Germans, Luxembourgers, as long there is no official written adjustments of the rules by T.I.

 

Will Pattaya Immigration continue to accept this L.o.I.? I hope they will still do in January 2019.

 

After that wait & see.

 

I suppose the Honorary C.G. is very concerned too, these L.o.I. represent a very important source of revenue for him.

 

[Saladin]

 

Regular pension payments coming into this country must be the easiest source of foreign currency that Thailand can get. It costs the country nothing to collect and every dollar, euro, pound or yen gets spent here. It seems to me that Thailand should forget about the 800,000B p.a. requirement and instead should happily give Retirement Visas to anybody whose pension (usually around 50,000B) is paid directly into a Thai bank account. So that retirees don't become a burden on the state they should have to demonstrate that they have X amount of health cover, either from a foreign or a Thai insurance company.  

[Issanjohn]

You don’t really need a method to stay here you just have to be within Thai immigration laws to stay here it’s not gonna be as difficult as people think there’s way to much mass hysteria about this income letter.  I understand why people are concerned I was worried about it as well until I learned what the official guidance was and now I have a plan.  

[Issanjohn]

I know what I’m gonna do for next time in 2020 when they totally stop accepting the letter.  Next payday I’m gonna open a Thai bank account and just start transferring probably half of my monthly pension payments every month from my bank in the states into a Thai bank account and just keep my bank statements every month for every month throughout the year so I can verify my monthly income next time I do my extension in January 2020.  I mean I’m probably just gonna use the money I transfer over here to pay bills anyway and do whatever with the rest or just save what’s leftover.  This actually might be good for me because it’ll force me to budget myself better because I’ll just spend the money that I transfer to a Thai bank account and then save the money that I leave in my bank in the states because I make more than double the minimum monthly income requirement so I might as well use this situation to my advantage.  There’s always a bright side to everything even though it will be something extra we have to do such as opening the account here and then remembering to transfer at least the minimum monthly income requirement every month on payday.  

 

And at least I know that when I do my extension this time in January 2019 they should still accept my income affidavit this one last time according to what the United States Embassy has put out officially.  The United States Embassy said that it’s still valid at immigration for up to six months after the day it’s completed, at least for American citizens anyway and I’m sure it’s probably the same for everyone else as well but I don’t know what’s going on with Denmark.  The United States Embassy actually told me via email that our income affidavits will still be valid for up to six months after the date it’s completed going into the new year I actually have the official word in writing and they said that they got that information from Thai Immigration Bureau Officials.  They’ve also said that they are supposed to be supporting early renewals but they don’t specify how early but I might try to do it in December if they’ll let me.  If not according to the official guidance the income affidavit should still be valid in January since I’ll be well within 6 months because I’m getting my income affidavit done next week I have the appointment scheduled and I confirmed with the US embassy today via email that the current official guidance has not changed and that income affidavits for US citizens are still valid for up to six months after the date it’s completed.  

 

I really don’t understand what’s up with Denmark because even the Australian Embassy is still doing it till January 7th I believe their website says.  

 

Anyway it’s not really a “method to stay here” it’s just a matter of following the rules so that you are allowed to stay here legally and those rules really hasn’t changed.  The only thing that’s changing is the method of verifying income requirement.  I know everyone is in panic mode but I started researching this issue back in mid October when all the talk first began so now I know how it’s supposed to work.  

[marcusarelus]

I have a number of litigious ex wives and children in America that I wanted to get my assets away from so moved them to Thailand 20 years ago.  Seems the Thai language and writing have kept them at bay so far.  Now attrition is taking it's toll and my first wife has passed on.  So I just leave my cash in Thai banks and investments and the past 20 years have done as well as America so I'm happy and not bothered by the latest embassy things. 

[Jingthing]

35 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

I know what I’m gonna do for next time in 2020 when they totally stop accepting the letter.  Next payday I’m gonna open a Thai bank account and just start transferring probably half of my monthly pension payments every month from my bank in the states into a Thai bank account and just keep my bank statements every month for every month throughout the year so I can verify my monthly income next time I do my extension in January 2020.  I mean I’m probably just gonna use the money I transfer over here to pay bills anyway and do whatever with the rest or just save what’s leftover.  This actually might be good for me because it’ll force me to budget myself better because I’ll just spend the money that I transfer to a Thai bank account and then save the money that I leave in my bank in the states because I make more than double the minimum monthly income requirement so I might as well use this situation to my advantage.  There’s always a bright side to everything even though it will be something extra we have to do such as opening the account here and then remembering to transfer at least the minimum monthly income requirement every month on payday.  

 

And at least I know that when I do my extension this time in January 2019 they should still accept my income affidavit this one last time according to what the United States Embassy has put out officially.  The United States Embassy said that it’s still valid at immigration for up to six months after the day it’s completed, at least for American citizens anyway and I’m sure it’s probably the same for everyone else as well but I don’t know what’s going on with Denmark.  The United States Embassy actually told me via email that our income affidavits will still be valid for up to six months after the date it’s completed going into the new year I actually have the official word in writing and they said that they got that information from Thai Immigration Bureau Officials.  They’ve also said that they are supposed to be supporting early renewals but they don’t specify how early but I might try to do it in December if they’ll let me.  If not according to the official guidance the income affidavit should still be valid in January since I’ll be well within 6 months because I’m getting my income affidavit done next week I have the appointment scheduled and I confirmed with the US embassy today via email that the current official guidance has not changed and that income affidavits for US citizens are still valid for up to six months after the date it’s completed.  

 

I really don’t understand what’s up with Denmark because even the Australian Embassy is still doing it till January 7th I believe their website says.  

 

Anyway it’s not really a “method to stay here” it’s just a matter of following the rules so that you are allowed to stay here legally and those rules really hasn’t changed.  The only thing that’s changing is the method of verifying income requirement.  I know everyone is in panic mode but I started researching this issue back in mid October when all the talk first began so now I know how it’s supposed to work.  

You're making dangerous assumptions.

First, the U.S. embassy doesn't determine whether the letters will be honored in 2019. Thai immigration does.

Secondly, at this date, there exists NO OTHER way to do an income based application without a letter.

So what you're preparing for is something nobody knows will exist.

Smarter to prepare for a bank account method.

 

To wit from another very credible source. This predated my report about the report from the head man at Jomtien immigration --
 

Quote

 

Your only choice will be to put the required lump sum in a Thai bank account well in advance of your application date.  Period.

 

 

http://www.pattayamail.com/mailbag/no-ambiguity-229347

 

That quote is from Barry Kenyon, the former British honorary consul in Pattaya.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Jingthing

[Pattaya46]

46 minutes ago, Saladin said:

// It seems to me that Thailand should forget about the 800,000B p.a. requirement and instead should happily give Retirement Visas to anybody whose pension (usually around 50,000B) is paid directly into a Thai bank account.  //

A very egoist suggestion . I suppose it would work for you, but what about those :

- who don't have a pension when retired

- who are not in age to get their pension
- whose country will refuse to pay the pension in Thailand

- who are not retired and/or will never have a pension

etc.

[NoshowJones]

8 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Ditto.. used the Embassy letter since 2009 but unless things change with Imm then it will have to be the cash in bank

As a guy married to a Thai national, I could put 400.000 baht in the bank, but I do not agree with it, why I should, I have bought a house, cars and motorbikes, contributed to the Thai economy.

[NoshowJones]

6 hours ago, rubik101 said:

There must be hundreds of residents who have been here for many years who have relied on the letters of income from the embassies. Many of them will have been here for many years, be married and have dependent children/families, etc. If they do not have 400k or 800k in the bank they will be in real difficulties when it comes to renewing their Non O visa. If the Thai gov't insist on the bank deposit then I fear many people will be forced to leave if they are unable to raise that amount of money when on a fixed pension income. There needs to be a solution from the Thai Immigration Service and it needs to be published very soon.

I agree, but I also know that the Thai authorities will never do anything in our favour

[skatewash]

2 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Plan A:  New O-A from LA Thai Consulate

Plan B:  500K 5 Year Elite Visa

Plan C.  Become a wandering Nomad to various Asian Nation on 90 Day Visa Exempt in Malaysia, S. Korea or Japan

Plan D.  Go to one of thoes magic Visa Agencies in the South.

 

Plan F. Become an Uber Eats Driver in LA.

No Plan E?  ????

[Peterw42]

Wondering if any countries old age pension actually meets the 65k income. I know the Australian OAP falls short and people have mentioned that other countries age pensions also fall short.

Its ironic if everyone will be required to do the 800k when some dont actually have the required income. It ends up with people who cant afford to live here hiding behind the 800k deposit.

I know a couple of guys and all they have in the world is the 800k and a 30-40k income.

The 800k gets you a seat at the table but many cant afford the whats on the menu.

 

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I agree, but I also know that the Thai authorities will never do anything in our favour

They are giving you a yearly visa for a pittance and a small amount of cash in an interest bearing account in a Thai bank for 90 days a year.  I'd say that's 100% in your favor. 

[skatewash]

2 hours ago, offset said:

You have to be careful on this account there are restrictions can only withdraw 2 times a month without having to pay 50 baht for each extra withdraw, it is only 0.6 under 500000 baht and you pay tax if you interest is over 20000 baht per year

You are correct about the 2 free withdrawals a month, thereafter 50 baht each.  But you misstate the interest rate.  It is currently 1.3% if balance over 100,000.

https://www.krungsri.com/bank/getmedia/73303085-51fa-4a5b-a0d3-5998813707db/Deposit-Rates-01102561-en.aspx

And about your final point concerning having tax withheld if you earn over 20,000 baht per year, that's true but it would imply that you have more than 1,500,000 baht in the account (which is much greater than you would need to maintain for the retirement or marriage extensions).

If you maintain the balance in the Mee Tae Dai (MTD) account between 100,001 and 1,500,000 baht then the situation is as described by offset, currently 1.3% interest that does not have any interest automatically withheld.

I use a MTD account for retirement extension purposes and I find that two free (no fee) withdrawals (as much as 30,000 baht from the ATM) to the savings account I use for day-to-day expenses works out very well for my needs.

[Laza 45]

OA Multi-entry from Australia.. good for 2 years.. 

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Wondering if any countries old age pension actually meets the 65k income. I know the Australian OAP falls short and people have mentioned that other countries age pensions also fall short.

Its ironic if everyone will be required to do the 800k when some dont actually have the required income. It ends up with people who cant afford to live here hiding behind the 800k deposit.

I know a couple of guys and all they have in the world is the 800k and a 30-40k income.

The 800k gets you a seat at the table but many cant afford the whats on the menu.

Depends on the Thai baht.  Mine has gone from 75 to 60 and back a number of times. 

[Issanjohn]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're making dangerous assumptions.

First, the U.S. embassy doesn't determine whether the letters will be honored in 2019. Thai immigration does.

Secondly, at this date, there exists NO OTHER way to do an income based application without a letter.

So what you're preparing for is something nobody knows will exist.

Smarter to prepare for a bank account method.

 

To wit from another very credible source. This predated my report about the report from the head man at Jomtien immigration --
 

 

http://www.pattayamail.com/mailbag/no-ambiguity-229347

 

That quote is from Barry Kenyon, the former British honorary consul in Pattaya.

That’s exactly what I’m doing is I’m gonna open a Thai bank account and start transferring at least half my monthly pension payments into it every month on payday.  And actually according to what the US Embassy has informed me OFFICIALLY via email “Thai Immigration Bureau Officials have confirmed with us that they WILL CONTINUE TO ACCEPT the income affidavit for up to six months after the the date it’s completed INTO 2019”.  That’s official guidance from immigration that was in fact put out by the US Embassy which I’ve confirmed with my local immigration office today from the immigration supervisor.  I’m just making preparations for next time after they really do totally stop accepting the income affidavit.  Although it would be nice if they would just accept my pension letters because for me it’s easy since I’m retired military and a disabled veteran but the US embassy told me that in 2020 they will PROBABLY and I emphasize probably want to see my income going into a Thai bank account and if that’s the case fine I’ll just open a Thai bank account next month on payday and from now on every month on payday just transfer maybe half of my pension payments into the Thai bank account or at least the minimum monthly income requirement.  I’m just gonna use that money to probably pay bills anyway and it might make it easier to pay bills instead of cash for everything as I do now.

 

Obviosly in January 2019 I’m gonna use the required income affidavit which is valid for up to six months after completion.  The United States Embassy has also stated that according to the Thai Immigration Bureau Officials they are supporting early renewals so I might even get to do it early in December.  My extension expires on February 6th 2019 so I’ll be fine this year and next time I might need a Thai bank account.  

 

I honestly don’t care what some “former” British government official said or even what Pattaya immigration says I care what my embassy is currently saying “officially” as of now and what my actual local immigration office is saying which is currently the same thing the US Embassy is saying.  It’s best to start preparing now and not wait until the last minute to be ready.