Frustration at Immigration Office regarding income affidavit policy

[Mike Teavee]

4 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Doing the same here, albeit it's more to move cash over each month whilst I'm still working, I doubt I'll need it come extension time as I've maintained the 800K in the Bank since getting my Non-O visa but I need the money for spends anyway so it doesn't hurt.

 

NB. I'm only doing this as SGD/THB is at a reasonably good level (24.04 Vs 10yr high of 26.31), if I had to use my UK monies I wouldn't be doing it (GBP/THB 42.09 Vs 10 yr high of 57.79) so I can fully understand my fellow Brits wanting to hang fire to see how things pan out with Brexit (I'm certainly doing that before changing any cash I have/earn in the UK)

 

Can't Edit my post now but out of curiosity I thought I'd check out USD/THB rate and it's currently around 32.88 Vs a 10 year high of 36.48.

Cur	Low	High	%
SGD	24.04	26.31	-8.63%
USD	32.88	36.48	-9.87%
GBP	42.09	57.79	-27.17%

 

Painful to see as a Brit ???? 

 

[wayned]

31 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Can't Edit my post now but out of curiosity I thought I'd check out USD/THB rate and it's currently around 32.88 Vs a 10 year high of 36.48.

Cur	Low	High	%
SGD	24.04	26.31	-8.63%
USD	32.88	36.48	-9.87%
GBP	42.09	57.79	-27.17%

 

Painful to see as a Brit ???? 

 

I can remember back to January 1998 when the USD was over 56 baht to $!.00,

[wayned]

31 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Can't Edit my post now but out of curiosity I thought I'd check out USD/THB rate and it's currently around 32.88 Vs a 10 year high of 36.48.

Cur	Low	High	%
SGD	24.04	26.31	-8.63%
USD	32.88	36.48	-9.87%
GBP	42.09	57.79	-27.17%

 

Painful to see as a Brit ???? 

 

I can remember back to January 1998 when the USD was over 56 baht to $!.00,

[billd766]

12 minutes ago, wayned said:

I can remember back to January 1998 when the USD was over 56 baht to $!.00,

 

How about these rates from 01 January 1997 to 31 January 1998.

 

The GBP peaked at 86.92 thb.

 

It brings tears to my eyes.

 

http://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange-rates.php?A=1&C1=GBP&C2=THB&DD1=01&MM1=01&YYYY1=1997&B=1&P=&I=1&DD2=31&MM2=01&YYYY2=1998&btnOK=Go!

Edited November 30, 2018 by billd766
added extra text

[Mike Teavee]

40 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

How about these rates from 01 January 1997 to 31 January 1998.

 

The GBP peaked at 86.92 thb.

 

It brings tears to my eyes.

 

http://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange-rates.php?A=1&C1=GBP&C2=THB&DD1=01&MM1=01&YYYY1=1997&B=1&P=&I=1&DD2=31&MM2=01&YYYY2=1998&btnOK=Go!

Feel better now, SGD/THB was around 10 at that time ????

 

of course at that time all my money net was in GBP (well, maybe a few Spanish pesos from a holiday).

 

[JLCrab]

8 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Absolutely meaningless without stating WHERE !

AND immigration allowed you to do it 60 days early , I find that very hard to believe.

As in former spook jargon: An undisclosed location.

[wayned]

" We will continue to support Canadian expats by issuing letters, with the caveat that the Immigration Dept is the one that has to clarify what they will accept and deny."

 

This is a statement from another thread made to a Canadian Citizen that just received his income letter from the Canadian Embassy.  This is exactly how all of the Embassies should be addressing the problem rather than telling their citizens to PISS OFF!.  The Embassies should tell Thai Immigration that they are going to issue the letters that Thai Immigration has been accepting for years and it is the responsibility of TI to revise the current regulations that create an acceptable solution for the situation that someone has created.  The Embassies that have announced termination of the current letters should dig their heals in and resend the decision to stop issuing the letters and continue with their current income letter policies until TI revises and publishes the regulations/ orders that define this process for the regional Immigration offices.

 

Isn't the primary mission of an Embassy to provide support of their citizens living in a foreign country or am I missing something?

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by wayned

[JLCrab]

11 minutes ago, wayned said:

The Embassies should tell Thai Immigration that they are going to issue the letters that Thai Immigration has been accepting for years and it is the responsibility of TI to revise the current regulations that create an acceptable solution for the situation that someone has created. 

Good idea - I'm waiting.

Edited November 30, 2018 by JLCrab

[wayned]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

Good idea - I'm waiting.

They burnt some sugar cane last night and when I got5t up there was still a lot of smoke in the air.  Might have been a big batch of marijuana in the middle of the field and I'm still hallucinating!

[billd766]

6 hours ago, wayned said:

" We will continue to support Canadian expats by issuing letters, with the caveat that the Immigration Dept is the one that has to clarify what they will accept and deny."

 

This is a statement from another thread made to a Canadian Citizen that just received his income letter from the Canadian Embassy.  This is exactly how all of the Embassies should be addressing the problem rather than telling their citizens to PISS OFF!.  The Embassies should tell Thai Immigration that they are going to issue the letters that Thai Immigration has been accepting for years and it is the responsibility of TI to revise the current regulations that create an acceptable solution for the situation that someone has created.  The Embassies that have announced termination of the current letters should dig their heals in and resend the decision to stop issuing the letters and continue with their current income letter policies until TI revises and publishes the regulations/ orders that define this process for the regional Immigration offices.

 

Isn't the primary mission of an Embassy to provide support of their citizens living in a foreign country or am I missing something?

 

 quote "Isn't the primary mission of an Embassy to provide support of their citizens living in a foreign country or am I missing something?"

 

That should of course apply to ALL embassies,but in the case of the British embassy it is no longer true.

 

The British embassy has outsourced so many of its tasks and cancelled many others. It has sold off its prime real estate in 2006 and the rest in 2017 to the Central group.

 

It is a shadow of its former self and unless you are a rich businessman, any help you expect from the embassy will not be forthcoming.

 

To be fair to the ambassador and the staff there, it is down to the foreign and Commonwealth Office in the UK who lay down the rules and limit the activities of the embassy, and rarely the embassy staff themselves who have to follow the FCO guidelines.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy_of_the_United_Kingdom,_Bangkok

[dick dasterdly]

21 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 quote "Isn't the primary mission of an Embassy to provide support of their citizens living in a foreign country or am I missing something?"

 

That should of course apply to ALL embassies,but in the case of the British embassy it is no longer true.

 

The British embassy has outsourced so many of its tasks and cancelled many others. It has sold off its prime real estate in 2006 and the rest in 2017 to the Central group.

 

It is a shadow of its former self and unless you are a rich businessman, any help you expect from the embassy will not be forthcoming.

 

To be fair to the ambassador and the staff there, it is down to the foreign and Commonwealth Office in the UK who lay down the rules and limit the activities of the embassy, and rarely the embassy staff themselves who have to follow the FCO guidelines.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy_of_the_United_Kingdom,_Bangkok

Plus, it's pretty obvious that their prime function is promoting business interests (and spying activities?) - even if they pretend otherwise.

 

The pretense that they are concerned about their nationals in the country, has long been exposed as untrue ☹️.

[Ginkas]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 quote "Isn't the primary mission of an Embassy to provide support of their citizens living in a foreign country or am I missing something?" 

 

No, it isn't and never has been.

The primary function of an embassy is to represent their country's government in the host country, and provide a link from the host country's government to the embassy's government.

Supporting their citizens was never their function, but over the last century or so they have taken on some of this work (or been "lumbered" with it, as they would say).

It used to be that if you chose to be in a foreign country it was up to you to look after yourself, nothing to do with 'your' embassy or government.

It seems that many countries are now trying to get back to this original state of affairs.

I learnt all this (and more) in discussions with a Foreign Office official when I worked for a different government department - was a bit of an eye-opener as to what can reasonably be expected.

 

[Travelighlty]

On 11/18/2018 at 11:03 AM, JackThompson said:

One in Phuket, claiming only "govt pension income" will be accepted - even with the letter - but that office is famous for being difficult.

 

Don't hold your breath.

 

That also reduces the needed income to 40K/mo, assuming an income-based method exists next year in some form.  We have only one report from Mukdahan of someone using a govt-pension income with a Thai-bank letter showing the deposits in lieu of an income letter.  I consider this the "most likely acceptable scenario," with the OP's "annuity" income being less-likely to be accepted.

 

I sincerely hope non-govt incomes are acceptable, since my income is not from a govt-pension - but a "best bet" scenario would be using govt-income sources to meet the 40K (assuming it reaches that threshold), vs a combination of govt and private sources to meet 65K. 

 

The OP won't be applying again for 11 mo or so, and we should know a lot more at that time.

 

In my experience (going back years to my TR extensions), if you are present with your Thai wife, IOs will speak to her - often exclusively - even requiring her to translate any questions to you.
 

I’m baffled, unless I missed something, why would being married to a Thai reduce your bank deposit requirement from 800K down to 400K? 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Travelighlty said:

I’m baffled, unless I missed something, why would being married to a Thai reduce your bank deposit requirement from 800K down to 400K? 

Because the rules are different for extensions based on retirement vs. marriage. Why ask about immigration's motivations? The rules are the rules. Our role is to try to figure out what they are currently and try to follow them. 

[Travelighlty]

If the 800,000 Baht requirement is the only option, is it going to be difficult to close the bank account when someone decides to pack it in and get out of the country? I’ve heard of stories where people have been questioned and the bank has balked on releasing the funds.

[Travelighlty]

51 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Because the rules are different for extensions based on retirement vs. marriage. Why ask about immigration's motivations? The rules are the rules. Our role is to try to figure out what they are currently and try to follow them. 

I’m not questioning the motives, only wanting to understand the rationale.

 

If my mom chopped the ends off a ham before baking and there appeared no reason to do so, I’d be curious why. (Turns out Grandma had to do it because the ham wouldn’t fit the pan and my mom did it because Grandma did it that way even though she now had a bigger pan the ham did fit into:))

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Travelighlty said:

I’m not questioning the motives, only wanting to understand the rationale.

1. An extension based upon marriage is allowed for humanitarian reasons.

2. It is assumed that the wife can work, have a business and etc to help support the family.

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, Travelighlty said:

I’m baffled, unless I missed something, why would being married to a Thai reduce your bank deposit requirement from 800K down to 400K? 

I always thought it was because they felt sorry for the guy.

[Olmate]

2 hours ago, Travelighlty said:

If the 800,000 Baht requirement is the only option, is it going to be difficult to close the bank account when someone decides to pack it in and get out of the country? I’ve heard of stories where people have been questioned and the bank has balked on releasing the funds.

Very important point and can,t recall it spoken of in these threads.Just the normal” Thai banks are fine,don’t be silly”responses from the supposedly well healed expert,s on here.I,m thinking just spend it down,

[Pattaya46]

3 hours ago, Travelighlty said:

If the 800,000 Baht requirement is the only option, is it going to be difficult to close the bank account when someone decides to pack it in and get out of the country? I’ve heard of stories where people have been questioned and the bank has balked on releasing the funds.

I already transferred money back from Thailand to my country. I am in Pattaya with an account at Kasikornbank. I had to go to the main branch (on central road) that is here the only one Kasikorn that can do it. I send back nearly 400'000 THB and all what was required was my passport and a bankbook showing a transfer in Thailand of at least this amount. Took probably 15 minutes, but only work for me was to sign 2-3 documents. No difficult.

[jackdd]

4 hours ago, Travelighlty said:

If the 800,000 Baht requirement is the only option, is it going to be difficult to close the bank account when someone decides to pack it in and get out of the country? I’ve heard of stories where people have been questioned and the bank has balked on releasing the funds.

If the bank is making problems you can just withdraw it, exchange it to a currency of your choice and take this with you. Of course you might have to declare it when you take it with you n cash, but with the proof that you once transferred it to Thailand and are now comming back there should be no problem in doing so.

Edited December 1, 2018 by jackdd

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, Travelighlty said:

I’m baffled, unless I missed something, why would being married to a Thai reduce your bank deposit requirement from 800K down to 400K? 

Marriage-based extensions have had a lower min bank-balance or income than for retirement-based extensions for a long time.  It seems to be based on a level which can easily support someone here comfortably - vs a level which is much higher than one would actually need. 

 

But the last time the levels were raised, I don't believe there was "grandfathering" of older levels for those on marriage-based extensions, as there was for those on retirement-based extensions.

[tracy3eyes]

The question is at what point does one have to show income transfer to a Thai bank? The month before renewal date, 3 months before? 6 months before?, Jan 2019?

 

e.g.

If ones extension is due in before Oct 12 2019 when does one need to start transferring the income requirement to Thai Bank?

[wpcoe]

18 hours ago, wayned said:

Isn't the primary mission of an Embassy to provide support of their citizens living in a foreign country or am I missing something?

 

 

11 hours ago, Ginkas said:

No, it isn't and never has been.

The primary function of an embassy is to represent their country's government in the host country, and provide a link from the host country's government to the embassy's government.

Supporting their citizens was never their function, but over the last century or so they have taken on some of this work (or been "lumbered" with it, as they would say).

It used to be that if you chose to be in a foreign country it was up to you to look after yourself, nothing to do with 'your' embassy or government.

It seems that many countries are now trying to get back to this original state of affairs.

I learnt all this (and more) in discussions with a Foreign Office official when I worked for a different government department - was a bit of an eye-opener as to what can reasonably be expected.

 

According the the official US Department of State web site:

 

The primary purpose of an embassy is to assist American citizens who travel to or live in the host country.

source:  https://www.state.gov/discoverdiplomacy/diplomacy101/places/170537.htm

[wayned]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Marriage-based extensions have had a lower min bank-balance or income than for retirement-based extensions for a long time.  It seems to be based on a level which can easily support someone here comfortably - vs a level which is much higher than one would actually need. 

 

But the last time the levels were raised, I don't believe there was "grandfathering" of older levels for those on marriage-based extensions, as there was for those on retirement-based extensions.

I always thought that it should be just the opposite, 800000 for Marriage and 400000 for retirement, or the same for both, 600000 baht.  Some people that I know that have been or are married to a Thai definitely are at a higher medical risk,  I even had a friend from Canada when I lived in Koh Samui  whose wife had her uncle break into the house and kill him after they had moved to Ranong and he had built her and her parents houses.

[jacko45k]

On 12/1/2018 at 3:04 PM, Travelighlty said:

I’m baffled, unless I missed something, why would being married to a Thai reduce your bank deposit requirement from 800K down to 400K? 

One eats at home, the other spends dining out.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

One eats at home, the other spends dining out.

I am on a retirement extension and I eat at home most of the time.

 

I even take the time to make a lot of western food at home too.

[jacko45k]

16 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I am on a retirement extension and I eat at home most of the time.

 

I even take the time to make a lot of western food at home too.

Hmm, maybe that flew by a little high.

[wayned]

6 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Hmm, maybe that flew by a little high.

It never got off the ground!   I am also on a retirement visa and the only time that I eat out is when I go to a local party.  I can't remember when the last time that I ate in a restaurant, I think that it was when I met fredob43 at the bottle restaurant on AH1 about 3 years ago after my wife died.  I live in the last house on a dirt road in the middle of farm country and there are no restaurants here other than the noodle shop in the Village that is run by my niece after my wife died.

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, wayned said:

It never got off the ground!   I am also on a retirement visa and the only time that I eat out is when I go to a local party.  I can't remember when the last time that I ate in a restaurant, I think that it was when I met fredob43 at the bottle restaurant on AH1 about 3 years ago after my wife died.  I live in the last house on a dirt road in the middle of farm country and there are no restaurants here other than the noodle shop in the Village that is run by my niece after my wife died.

If your wife has died how are you on an extension based on marriage and 400k deposited?