Frustration at Immigration Office regarding income affidavit policy

[luckyluke]

Some here seems to think that they are immune for all problems because they have 400/800000 on a Thai bankbook.

Some of these even look down/mock those who haven't these funds.

 

I hope that if T.I. changes their directives, it will suit everybody.

 

However there is a possibility that T.I. made a major change and that the ones with the 400/800000 will suddenly also been affected.

 

Beware of overconfidence.

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

52 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Some here seems to think that they are immune for all problems because they have 400/800000 on a Thai bankbook.

Some of these even look down/mock those who haven't these funds.

 

I hope that if T.I. changes their directives, it will suit everybody.

 

However there is a possibility that T.I. made a major change and that the ones with the 400/800000 will suddenly also been affected.

 

Beware of overconfidence.

 

 

 

 

I totally agree speaking as someone that has been using the bank method. I consider it just luck that the bank method is untouched for now. I am not smug at all about people using the income method. I actually have considered them better off and "luckier" especially if they really have a 65K baht monthly pension (most Americans don't and won't). It's the old … first they came for thingie. 

[Moti24]

5 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Why, for what reason.

 

You think your UK bank isn't earning income from your money and offering you next to 0% interest.

I can at least get up to 1.8% interest from a Thai bank.

Great!  If you're happy, Put all your money in a Thai bank!  But, I'll settle for my 5% on 3 different accounts in the UK.

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

Some here seems to think that they are immune for all problems because they have 400/800000 on a Thai bankbook.

Some of these even look down/mock those who haven't these funds.

 

I hope that if T.I. changes their directives, it will suit everybody.

 

However there is a possibility that T.I. made a major change and that the ones with the 400/800000 will suddenly also been affected.

 

Beware of overconfidence.

 

 

 

 

 

52 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I totally agree speaking as someone that has been using the bank method. I consider it just luck that the bank method is untouched for now. I am not smug at all about people using the income method. I actually have considered them better off and "luckier" especially if they really have a 65K baht monthly pension (most Americans don't and won't). It's the old … first they came for thingie. 

Indeed, it would IMHO be unwise to rule out significant increases to the 400k/800k figures (plus maybe even no grandfathering?) at some stage. 

[Maestro]

27 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Indeed, it would IMHO be unwise to rule out significant increases to the 400k/800k figures (plus maybe even no grandfathering?) at some stage. 

In my opinion, my guess, if I were foolish enough to advance any, would be as good or as bad as everybody else's guess. Are scare-mongering speculations of this nature of help to anybody?

[tropo]

On 11/18/2018 at 7:51 AM, jackdd said:

This was written in another topic, so could very well be:

On 11/17/2018 at 4:45 PM, Jingthing said:

Jomtien immigration chief has told people directly there will be no income applications accepted next year AT ALL (obviously included combos) from any nationality and that includes people with letters they thought were good for six months.

 

For what it's worth, I just came back from Jomtien Immigration office after reporting. I spoke with the Farang Liaison Officer who gets around in a yellow shirt and hangs out at the retirement desk. I asked him about an income method going forward next year, and if Embassy income letters will be accepted up to 6 months, and he just shrugged his shoulders and said: "nobody knows".

Edited November 19, 2018 by tropo

[morrobay]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

 

Indeed, it would IMHO be unwise to rule out significant increases to the 400k/800k figures (plus maybe even no grandfathering?) at some stage. 

Ok but I'm not planning on running scared here. I just put 8 in the bank and if that's not good enough for them - adios. 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

For what it's worth, I just came back from Jomtien Immigration office after reporting. I spoke with the Farang Liaison Officer who gets around in a yellow shirt and hangs out at the retirement desk. I asked him about an income method going forward next year, and if Embassy income letters will be accepted up to 6 months, and he just shrugged his shoulders and said: "nobody knows".

Further to what I said above, if a "chief" at Jomtien said they won't accept income letters or any form of income verification and 800k/400k is the only way from January 1, I suspect (this is just a theory OK) that they can't be bothered with all the rigmarole involved with income verification, and have taken the lazy way out. This may well change with a directive from someone above. I'd be interested to know what chief they (people who reported this) spoke to because the chiefs don't usually hang out in the main room. Maybe they thought a supervisor was the chief.

[pontious]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

This may well change with a directive from someone above.

There is a directive from immigration. I cannot find it but Joe will probably publish it in a nano second. I would make a copy for file 13.

[pontious]

1 hour ago, pontious said:

There is a directive from immigration. I cannot find it but Joe will probably publish it in a nano second. I would make a copy for file 13.

Then again maybe he wont.

[Media1]

1 hour ago, pontious said:

There is a directive from immigration. I cannot find it but Joe will probably publish it in a nano second. I would make a copy for file 13.

rubbish no directive

[pontious]

2 minutes ago, Media1 said:

rubbish no directive

I will only answer you once. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Most threads you answer are normally closed. Don't reply.

[gk10002000]

I point out the obvious: If monthly transfers into Thailand are to be mandated, then one would have to open a Thai bank account to transfer the funds into.  While not necessarily a big deal, and I admit at times it may be helpful to have a local Thai bank for several reasons, it still would now basically be required.  And if the 65000 a month minimum must be shown and no average once every three months or once a year total is allowed, well, that is more expense to the Expat.   I am expecting to stay in country about 6-8 months of each year while returning to my home country once or twice a year.  The retirement extension was the cheapest and relatively easiest way to stay long term in Thailand.   Getting to be a pain now.   And again I point out that a few months of transfers into Thailand does NOT show any sustainable proof of income, which is the intent of the income affidavit and the intent of the immigration laws.  The intent of the law is to show that one has sustainable steady income.   A few months of transfers does not prove one has a pension, or lots of dividend and interest or rental or rotalty income.  I am sure that many people will now just skate by and borrow or move money around to show the exact minimum 65 k baht per month transfer in.  They may be spending down some cash.  Some will no doubt try other work arounds.  The transfer in "proof" is just weak.  Time will tell what will shake out next year

[tropo]

9 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

I point out the obvious: If monthly transfers into Thailand are to be mandated, then one would have to open a Thai bank account to transfer the funds into.  While not necessarily a big deal, and I admit at times it may be helpful to have a local Thai bank for several reasons, it still would now basically be required.  And if the 65000 a month minimum must be shown and no average once every three months or once a year total is allowed, well, that is more expense to the Expat.   I am expecting to stay in country about 6-8 months of each year while returning to my home country once or twice a year.  The retirement extension was the cheapest and relatively easiest way to stay long term in Thailand.   Getting to be a pain now.   And again I point out that a few months of transfers into Thailand does NOT show any sustainable proof of income, which is the intent of the income affidavit and the intent of the immigration laws.  The intent of the law is to show that one has sustainable steady income.   A few months of transfers does not prove one has a pension, or lots of dividend and interest or rental or rotalty income.  I am sure that many people will now just skate by and borrow or move money around to show the exact minimum 65 k baht per month transfer in.  They may be spending down some cash.  Some will no doubt try other work arounds.  The transfer in "proof" is just weak.  Time will tell what will shake out next year

At this stage, the bigger concern is whether or not they will accept proof of monthly deposits at all, rather than how it will be managed.

[tropo]

21 minutes ago, pontious said:

27 minutes ago, Media1 said:

rubbish no directive

I will only answer you once. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Most threads you answer are normally closed. Don't reply.

I would also like to see this directive you speak of. Even if you cannot put your hands on it could you please explain what is it about.

[gk10002000]

3 minutes ago, tropo said:

At this stage, the bigger concern is whether or not they will accept proof of monthly deposits at all, rather than how it will be managed.

Agreed.  Will be a while before all the immigration offices sort out what the Headquarters expects, never mind how each office may understand and interpret things

[Media1]

10 minutes ago, tropo said:

I would also like to see this directive you speak of. Even if you cannot put your hands on it could you please explain what is it about.

l have plenty of idea. l aleady been to Jomtien and discussed the matter upstairs. Next year l will still obtain my extension. without the bank deposit. But due to travel l may not go that way. l have accepted a role based in Asia with the AU army.

We are all individuals. Some find it hard to grasp. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Media1

[Media1]

5 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

Agreed.  Will be a while before all the immigration offices sort out what the Headquarters expects, never mind how each office may understand and interpret things

Case by case basis. The problem is fraudulent use of the Embassy. They were not asking for proof of funds on paper and online. They will certify your documents if you are genuine.

[Media1]

13 minutes ago, tropo said:

I would also like to see this directive you speak of. Even if you cannot put your hands on it could you please explain what is it about.

Pontius will be along shortly to lead you into the right direction. Give him time to gather the screenshots 

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, pontious said:

Can someone post a copy of IM pdf stating they are valid for 6 months.

Purely for Penis head Media 1.

 

Immigration directive for income letters.pdf

[tropo]

52 minutes ago, Media1 said:

Pontius will be along shortly to lead you into the right direction. Give him time to gather the screenshots 

This is dated May 29, 2013. That's ancient history and probably what an immigration officer would call it if you showed it to them.

Edited November 19, 2018 by tropo

[Tanoshi]

22 minutes ago, tropo said:

This is dated May 29, 2013. That's ancient history and probably what an immigration officer would call it if you showed it to them.

Current valid Immigration Orders became effective 29th August 2014.

Current valid Immigration Act is dated 1979.

 

The directive concerning validity of Income letters was only issued once.

Unless or until another directive is issued, the current one is still valid.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Tanoshi

[gk10002000]

3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

 

Immigration directive for income letters.pdf

I am pretty I read some posts here that said some offices required the letter to have been issued within 30 days of going to immigration.  Note that the order says the letter should not exceed 6 months.  It does not exclude the local office from requiring something more recent such as one month, two months etc.  caution is suggested

Edited November 19, 2018 by gk10002000
update

[ubonjoe]

4 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

I am pretty I read some posts here that said some offices required the letter to have been issued within 30 days of going to immigration. 

I can only recall a couple of offices being reported as not accepting one that was within the 6 months. I have used one that was 4 months old in the past. I think most people might be aware of their local offices policy is unless applying for the first time.

[OJAS]

9 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

I am pretty I read some posts here that said some offices required the letter to have been issued within 30 days of going to immigration.  Note that the order says the letter should not exceed 6 months.  It does not exclude the local office from requiring something more recent such as one month, two months etc.  caution is suggested

As I recall, Thaivisa member @wayned was at one time reporting that his office required the letter/affidavit to be no older than 1 month. But he subsequently reported that they had now fallen into line with the directive and were now prepared to accept letters/affidavits up to 6 months old.

Edited November 20, 2018 by OJAS

[wayned]

40 minutes ago, OJAS said:

As I recall, Thaivisa member @wayned was at one time reporting that his office required the letter/affidavit to be no older than 1 month. But he subsequently reported that they had now fallen into line with the directive and were now prepared to accept letters/affidavits up to 6 months old.

Yep, Nakhon Sawan now honors the 6 month validity, but I guess that I have used my last one on 16 October unless policy changes.

 

An interesting thought about the US income affidavit.  the US embassy has a "blank" affidavit that you can basically say anything that you want and they will notarized your statement.  it is not addressed to immigration nor has the words income affidavit on it.  But you could say " i certify that i receive $xxxx usd per month from the us government or other sources."  That's exactly the wording on the current income affidavit.  The vice consular would have you raise your hand and swear that the information is correct and it would contain the same embassy seal as the current affidavit.  It would be interesting how immigration would handle that one if they are only looking for a number and the touchy feeling of the embassy seal.

[Thaidream]

14 minutes ago, wayned said:

An interesting thought about the US income affidavit.  the US embassy has a "blank" affidavit that you can basically say anything that you want and they will notarized your statement.  it is not addressed to immigration nor has the words income affidavit on it.  But you could say " i certify that i receive $xxxx usd per month from the us government or other sources."  That's exactly the wording on the current income affidavit.  The vice consular would have you raise your hand and swear that the information is correct and it would contain the same embassy seal as the current affidavit.  It would be interesting how immigration would handle that one if they are only looking for a number and the touchy feeling of the embassy seal.

Indeed- well aware of it and I have used it before for other purposes and accepted by  Us entities as one takes an Oath it is true and correct.  In fact, the Embassy  said they would still be using them  as it has nothing to do with an income letter.  

[tropo]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I can only recall a couple of offices being reported as not accepting one that was within the 6 months. I have used one that was 4 months old in the past. I think most people might be aware of their local offices policy is unless applying for the first time.

I believe the opposite is more likely i.e. that very few would be aware of the 6-month validity of income letters. In nearly 10 years I always applied 30 days early, so I never used a letter more than a few days old. I just assumed the letter had to be recent. I was very surprised to learn that the letter could be up to 6 months old... and that was from reading a recent thread on this forum.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, tropo said:

I believe the opposite is more likely i.e. that very few would be aware of the 6-month validity of income letters.

I would say all immigration offices know about since it was written in a directive in 2013.

Only a couple of rogue offices don't go by it.

[tropo]

14 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Current valid Immigration Orders became effective 29th August 2014.

Current valid Immigration Act is dated 1979.

 

The directive concerning validity of Income letters was only issued once.

Unless or until another directive is issued, the current one is still valid.

It's great that you're so confident. I hope you're right, but the directive you posted predates a military coup by 1 year and most heads (if not all) of government departments have been changed. Despite this directive, regional offices still all do their own thing.