4 Thai employees per foreign work-permit

[12Gon]

I know that four Thai employees are needed to get one work-permit for a foreigner. Now to my questions…

 

1.       Do those 4 employees need to be employed 100% full time? What is full time? 8 hours a day, for 5 or 6 days a week?

 

2.       Is it possible to have more staff employed as part-time who make up the time required for 4 full-time staff? Example: having 8 part-time all employed at 50% working for you instead of four full-time employees?

 

3.       Can any of the four full-time employees also legally be employed full-time at another Thai company? 

 

4.       Do all the four employees need to be at the company? (I mean an employee who does for example internet marketing don’t need a physical presence) So could they work from home?   

 

5.       How much is the minimum social security payments per employee?

 

Thank you in advance!

[Scottjouro]

If your married to a Thai, you only need 2 employees with a THB 1.0 million capped company..

 

There is no employee "specfication" other to say 4 employees, as long as the tax and SS payments are made the DOL will not care 

[Rc2702]

Just now, Scottjouro said:

If your married to a Thai, you only need 2 employees with a THB 1.0 million capped company..

 

There is no employee "specfication" other to say 4 employees, as long as the tax and SS payments are made the DOL will not care 

It's this kind of response that infuriates me. So providing the DOL get their cut they do not care? So basically if someone reported someone for pretending to employ people or any other reason and an Investigation occurred there would be no problem?

 

 

 

[Scottjouro]

1 minute ago, Rc2702 said:

It's this kind of response that infuriates me. So providing the DOL get their cut they do not care? So basically if someone reported someone for pretending to employ people or any other reason and an Investigation occurred there would be no problem?

 

 

 

What cut are the DOL getting ? , nothing infuiates me more than people making statements of fact without the facts..

 

If someone is paying SS and tax for employees how can they be pretending ?...they actually have employees on the books which is the legal requirement  

[Rc2702]

Just now, Scottjouro said:

What cut are the DOL getting ? , nothing infuiates me more than people making statements of fact without the facts..

 

If someone is paying SS and tax for employees how can they be pretending ?...they actually have employees on the books which is the legal requirement  

It just sounds like a scam method. Leaves it open to manipulation. Same with the foreign work permit. Tax must be equivalent of 50k etc. The way input comes across leaves it questionable. It would be great for some solid facts such as the definition of labour and having staff on the books. 

[Scottjouro]

10 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

It just sounds like a scam method. Leaves it open to manipulation. Same with the foreign work permit. Tax must be equivalent of 50k etc. The way input comes across leaves it questionable. It would be great for some solid facts such as the definition of labour and having staff on the books. 

Once again no facts stated and what "facts" are stated are incorrect, seems you also struggle with solid facts

 

1. Please indicate where the scam is ?

 

2. Tax must be equilvalent to 50k statement is completely incorrect

 

2.1 the minimum salaries payable relate to the extension of stay issued    by immigration, not the work permit issued by the DOL

 

2.2 The minimum salary stated by immigration relates to ones nationality,   ie different nationalites different specificed minimum salary

 

2.3 a work permit can be issued without a salary ie volunteer visa 

 

 

[NightSky]

The minimum you will pay for social fund, taxes and accounting all managed by an accounting company will be around 8000 baht per month. This includes your own taxes paid on foreigners minimum salary and employing 4 Thai employees at the minimum wage and paying their social fund.

 

My question is though, now that I am married to a Thai is it OK to only employee 2 Thai employees for purpose of renewing my work permit next year and can one of those employees be my Thai wife?

 

[onera1961]

22 hours ago, NightSky said:

2 Thai employees for purpose of renewing my work permit next year and can one of those employees be my Thai wife?

Yes, and another can be her mother. Give some social security benefits to the old lady also ????

[NightSky]

8 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Yes, and another can be her mother. Give some social security benefits to the old lady also ????

Do you have only 2 employees being your Thai wife and one other in order to support work permit renewal?

[Bredbury Blue]

8 hours ago, NightSky said:

Do you have only 2 employees being your Thai wife and one other in order to support work permit renewal?

That would work, though this could come down to your local labour department office.

 

If you are married to a Thai then consider getting a Class O 'support Thai wife' visa instead of a Class B which requires a lot more paperwork (from your company) - it is easier (we were given this advice several years back from our local immigration office chief and it has proven to be correct).

 

Some good and correct advice above from Scottjouro.

[Na Fan]

Regarding: 

3.       Can any of the four full-time employees also legally be employed full-time at another Thai company? 

 

To an extent, no. If that company already has them registered for SSO, you can't register them twice. But many companies do not provide SSO for their Thai staff.

[NightSky]

3 hours ago, Bredbury Blue said:

That would work, though this could come down to your local labour department office.

 

If you are married to a Thai then consider getting a Class O 'support Thai wife' visa instead of a Class B which requires a lot more paperwork (from your company) - it is easier (we were given this advice several years back from our local immigration office chief and it has proven to be correct).

 

Some good and correct advice above from Scottjouro.

Yes thanks I do have a Non 0 visa already after years of Non B visa's.

 

Although its the work permit extension I am asking about renewing whilst I no longer require the 4 employees, maybe only 2.

 

I heard different stories including that 2 employees was OK to support a work permit if the foreigner is married to a Thai but I also heard conflicting stories about the possibilities of the wife being an employee and counting as one of those employees. I think I will try it, i.e. wife plus one other and see what comes from that.

 

Thanks

 

 

[mogandave]

Assuming your wife is of average intelligence she should be able to keep the books and deal with SS

[khunPer]

On 11/20/2018 at 7:14 PM, 12Gon said:

5.       How much is the minimum social security payments per employee?

The SS is around 10% af the salary, maximum 1,500 baht a month, and minimum 500 baht a month (not sure, if minimum has been slightly raised). "Around 10%" as it's not a fixed size, but set year by year, some years ago it was 8%.

 

Minimum salary is about 305-315 baht a day – been changed little different from the previous 300 baht a day, depending of region, you'll need to check according to location – often counted as 8,000 baht to 8,500 bat a month with one weekly day off.

 

Half of SS is normally paid by the employee, and half by the employer; i.e. for a 10,000 baht monthly salary each part will pay 500 baht, making the salary expense 10,500 baht a month.

 

Some branches might need less than 4 thai workers (or 2 if married to a Thai) for each foreign work permit, depending of business. You should be able to find additional information by BOI.

????

[Scottjouro]

2 hours ago, NightSky said:

Yes thanks I do have a Non 0 visa already after years of Non B visa's.

 

Although its the work permit extension I am asking about renewing whilst I no longer require the 4 employees, maybe only 2.

 

I heard different stories including that 2 employees was OK to support a work permit if the foreigner is married to a Thai but I also heard conflicting stories about the possibilities of the wife being an employee and counting as one of those employees. I think I will try it, i.e. wife plus one other and see what comes from that.

 

Thanks

 

 

And let me guess you have heard these stories from the local know it all farangs who survey their Thai Kingdom from the vantage point of a bar stool ?

 

There is absolutely nothing in the rules or the laws which excludes a Thai spouse from counting as an employee in Thai company

[sencelebi]

On ‎11‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 2:51 AM, Scottjouro said:

If your married to a Thai, you only need 2 employees with a THB 1.0 million capped company..

 

There is no employee "specfication" other to say 4 employees, as long as the tax and SS payments are made the DOL will not care 

I am married to a Thai citizen, 3 months ago opened a company.  In order to get a work permit for myself as a director needed 2 million baht and 3 share holders (including myself), other wise I can't run the company and legally I can't be doing any work. 1 million baht is for only Thai citizens and no employee requirements. As a foreigner minimum 2 million baht and 3 share holders required and no need to have employees. There can be objections to my reply but this is how my registered (auditor) book keeper opened my company. I am a US citizen and I have 99% of the shares, wife has 0.5% and daughter in law has 0.5% . Even though they say US citizen can own 100% of the company shares is not true. CO., LTD has to have 3 share holders. 2 million baht required for each additional foreigner employee and no Thai employee required. There can be objection for this too but I have 3 foreigners working for me so I capped 6 million baht more into company and I have no Thai employees. And everything approved and legal , 3 foreigners (Europeans) all got their work permits.

 

[12Gon]

Sencelebi, is that a BOI (board of investment) company or a thai-us amity treaty company?

[Scottjouro]

15 hours ago, sencelebi said:

I am married to a Thai citizen, 3 months ago opened a company.  In order to get a work permit for myself as a director needed 2 million baht and 3 share holders (including myself), other wise I can't run the company and legally I can't be doing any work. 1 million baht is for only Thai citizens and no employee requirements. As a foreigner minimum 2 million baht and 3 share holders required and no need to have employees. There can be objections to my reply but this is how my registered (auditor) book keeper opened my company. I am a US citizen and I have 99% of the shares, wife has 0.5% and daughter in law has 0.5% . Even though they say US citizen can own 100% of the company shares is not true. CO., LTD has to have 3 share holders. 2 million baht required for each additional foreigner employee and no Thai employee required. There can be objection for this too but I have 3 foreigners working for me so I capped 6 million baht more into company and I have no Thai employees. And everything approved and legal , 3 foreigners (Europeans) all got their work permits.

 

Thai companies formation law allows a foreigner married to Thai nantional to form a THB 1.0 million capitalised Ltd Company with only 2 Thai employees to secure a work permit - FACT,

 

 if some one tells you otherwise they are misinformed or dont know the rules - FACT

 

If your a US citizen with 99% shareholding your company formation is under the Amity agreement of 1966, as this is pretty much the only vehicle which would allow that level of  shareholding (away from some BOI schemes) and under this agreement they may very well require a THB 2.0 million capped company...so your not comparing apples with apples...the 1.0 million  capped company is for all farangs while the Amity agreement is for US citizens only 

[Bredbury Blue]

5 hours ago, Scottjouro said:

Thai companies formation law allows a foreigner married to Thai nantional to form a THB 1.0 million capitalised Ltd Company with only 2 Thai employees to secure a work permit - FACT,

 

 

Agree with the above based on advice received from *bkk lawyers middle of this year.

*International law firm.

[blackcab]

On 11/23/2018 at 9:27 AM, Na Fan said:

Regarding: 

3.       Can any of the four full-time employees also legally be employed full-time at another Thai company? 

 

To an extent, no. If that company already has them registered for SSO, you can't register them twice. But many companies do not provide SSO for their Thai staff.

 

Employees can be registered with more than one company. We have employees who work for two companies, and are regustered for both.

[davidst01]

I was going to do this before we started our business. The accountant talked us out of saying we would be paying so much tax if we had a company. They said to us to put tax via my wifes personal name. Im not allowed to work and stay behind the scenes. Its better this way I think as we keep more money

[timendres]

On 11/23/2018 at 9:08 PM, sencelebi said:

I have 3 foreigners working for me

On 11/23/2018 at 9:08 PM, sencelebi said:

and I have no Thai employees

On 11/23/2018 at 9:08 PM, sencelebi said:

everything approved and legal , 3 foreigners (Europeans) all got their work permits

Please explain how you accomplished this.

As far as I know, it is not possible.

[Misty]

On 11/23/2018 at 9:08 PM, sencelebi said:

Even though they say US citizen can own 100% of the company shares is not true.

 

It is true. A Thai company formed under the US Amity treaty can have 3 US citizen shareholders owning 100% of the shares. There is no need for a Thai shareholder.

 

 

 

[Misty]

On 11/23/2018 at 9:08 PM, sencelebi said:

 There can be objection for this too but I have 3 foreigners working for me so I capped 6 million baht more into company and I have no Thai employees. And everything approved and legal , 3 foreigners (Europeans) all got their work permits.

 

What type of visa / permission to stay do your foreign employees have?  For example, a non-immigrant B visa with 1 year extension requires 4 Thai employees each.  Do they have some other type of permission to stay and if so what is it? 

[onera1961]

58 minutes ago, Misty said:

US Amity treaty

What is amity treaty and why then anybody is going to form a company under treaties that require thai employees? Are the US employees can be in the US/Mexico? I have lots of legal Latinos that I can hire but they don't want to come to Thailand. 

 

[THAIJAMES]

On 11/26/2018 at 9:52 AM, onera1961 said:

What is amity treaty and why then anybody is going to form a company under treaties that require thai employees? Are the US employees can be in the US/Mexico? I have lots of legal Latinos that I can hire but they don't want to come to Thailand. 

 

The amity treaty is for US citizens it allows them to own 100% of the company without any Thai shareholders.  I have a partnership which only requires 2 shareholders.  Employees is a different issue and has nothing to do with the amity treaty.  Depending on the kind of visa you have, the requirement will be different.   No employee requirement for permanent residence like myself.  2 for married to a Thai or four Thai employees for every work permit for most other foreigners.

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, THAIJAMES said:

The amity treaty is for US citizens it allows them to own 100% of the company without any Thai shareholders.  I have a partnership which only requires 2 shareholders.  Employees is a different issue and has nothing to do with the amity treaty.  Depending on the kind of visa you have, the requirement will be different.   No employee requirement for permanent residence like myself.  2 for married to a Thai or four Thai employees for every work permit for most other foreigners.

Thanks. Great explanation. But definitely not for me. Lots of work, legal wrangling, etc.