This British hospital misses patient's cancer on 50 visits in a row. He would have gone back for visit 51, but he died. Anyone still alive across the pond: how's that socialized health care working out, eh?

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This subject is to close for comfort for me, my Father was just getting bad headaches, apparently caused by stress. He died two years later, brain tumour, aged 57.

Sometimes they get it wrong....... but most times they get it right. My Dad just ended up on the wrong side of the statistic.

The root cause, AFAIAC, is the 'Clinic Brigade' ...... the slightest ache, the smallest cough, the tiniest sniffle and they are in the queue for diagnosis ....... hey... it's the NHS..... it's free.

And they overwork the staff...... and real cases........ well, I need go no further.

It's easy to pick out the failures in the NHS but there are far more successes that are never written about simply because good news is no news. Remind us Boon Mee - how many people in the US don't have any medical insurance at all? 40 million?

get outta here boon...just like education available proper medical care is a right, not a privilege...

I used to be a nurse in an NHS hospital in one of my previous lives & this interests me on 3 different levels.

Firstly: abdominal (I'm assuming they mean intestinal) cancer is one of the hardest to detect. There are often no or vague symptoms & it's often detected too late to do much about it. This doesn't mean it couldn't have been detected over 50 visits, or that a scan shouldn't have been arranged sooner, but we don't know what went on in those 50 visits. I mean, this is the Sun, people. Investigative journalism at its finest - never let the facts get in the way of a good story! It's implied he was complaining of identifiable symptoms on all of those visits (and maybe he was, I don't know), but patients can be very vague around doctors & can be fobbed off very easily. Not many patients understand or will stand up for their rights, unfortunately.

Secondly: I do think the NHS has gone downhill & it started in the late 80's and early 90's when I was nursing. It became far more about time management, keeping costs down & profit than about adequate or good care. It's not the medical staff's fault; they're overworked & have to jump through the most ridiculous hoops to try to satisfy management & patients. It is solely down to the management of the hospitals, the vast majority of whom have no knowledge whatsoever of medicine or surgery.

Thirdly: My mum has had breast cancer twice. Once she got treatment in HK and lived with me there while she had her op & went through chemotherapy. Very, very expensive. The second time, she was diagnosed here. We looked at the option of her "going home" to UK to undergo treatment to save money. When she investigated this option she was told it would be 6 weeks before she would even be seen by a cancer specialist, never mind get the mastectomy, chemo etc. She had already been diagnosed! We asked her specialists & they said it couldn't possibly wait that long, so she had the op, chemo & radio in Bumrungrad, who were very good, but again it was costly.

I don't know what the answer is. It's so sad that these things happen. IMO, private healthcare & NHS healthcare should be two seperate entities in the UK. When they stop using NHS facilities and staff for private patients, maybe people like this man won't slip through the net.

I used to be a nurse in an NHS hospital in one of my previous lives & this interests me on 3 different levels.

Firstly: abdominal (I'm assuming they mean intestinal) cancer is one of the hardest to detect. There are often no or vague symptoms & it's often detected too late to do much about it. This doesn't mean it couldn't have been detected over 50 visits, or that a scan shouldn't have been arranged sooner, but we don't know what went on in those 50 visits. I mean, this is the Sun, people. Investigative journalism at its finest - never let the facts get in the way of a good story! It's implied he was complaining of identifiable symptoms on all of those visits (and maybe he was, I don't know), but patients can be very vague around doctors & can be fobbed off very easily. Not many patients understand or will stand up for their rights, unfortunately.

Secondly: I do think the NHS has gone downhill & it started in the late 80's and early 90's when I was nursing. It became far more about time management, keeping costs down & profit than about adequate or good care. It's not the medical staff's fault; they're overworked & have to jump through the most ridiculous hoops to try to satisfy management & patients. It is solely down to the management of the hospitals, the vast majority of whom have no knowledge whatsoever of medicine or surgery.

Thirdly: My mum has had breast cancer twice. Once she got treatment in HK and lived with me there while she had her op & went through chemotherapy. Very, very expensive. The second time, she was diagnosed here. We looked at the option of her "going home" to UK to undergo treatment to save money. When she investigated this option she was told it would be 6 weeks before she would even be seen by a cancer specialist, never mind get the mastectomy, chemo etc. She had already been diagnosed! We asked her specialists & they said it couldn't possibly wait that long, so she had the op, chemo & radio in Bumrungrad, who were very good, but again it was costly.

I don't know what the answer is. It's so sad that these things happen. IMO, private healthcare & NHS healthcare should be two seperate entities in the UK. When they stop using NHS facilities and staff for private patients, maybe people like this man won't slip through the net.

right on NR...my dad died ob bowel cancer an' I think that I'm the next in line, the condition bein' hereditary...I ain't got no medical insurance an' will just haveta face it when de time comes...just like wid taxes...plus, I ain't afraid ob death...fer what that's worth...

Under Castro Cuba has never been a very rich country and has alot of the times been a very poor country but their socialized medicine has consistently given them an infant mortality rate lower than the US.

Agree 100 % with Thad & endure. Easy to knock something when you have no experience with it. Over the past year I have had to get treatment for diabetes & then pregnancy & all my care has been efficiant & top class. I see a consultant & midwife, diabetic specialist & have an ultra sound every two weeks. I wonder how much of that a private insurance policy would cost me or even cover. Mistakes do happen & it is overworked but it's better IMO than people living below the poverty line being refused treatment at all because some HMO decided it isn't cost effective or they don't have/can't afford the insurance to cover it.

Under Castro Cuba has never been a very rich country and has alot of the times been a very poor country but their socialized medicine has consistently given them an infant mortality rate lower than the US.[/quote

right on to that chownah....I wanted to mention the same but did not wanna politicise the thread any more than already...

'I like Fidel Castro and his beard...' - Bob Dylan...

QUE VIVA FIDEL!!!

Agree 100 % with Thad & endure. Easy to knock something when you have no experience with it. Over the past year I have had to get treatment for diabetes & then pregnancy & all my care has been efficiant & top class. I see a consultant & midwife, diabetic specialist & have an ultra sound every two weeks. I wonder how much of that a private insurance policy would cost me or even cover. Mistakes do happen & it is overworked but it's better IMO than people living below the poverty line being refused treatment at all because some HMO decided it isn't cost effective or they don't have/can't afford the insurance to cover it.

I'm not sure whose post you're referring to Boo, but just in case it's mine, then can I just clarify a point? I'm a huge advocate of the NHS. I think it's a fantastic system & far better than the healthcare systems that are found in many other countries. My problem is with the increasing privatisation of healthcare & the fact that NHS facilities and staff are used for private patients. If people in UK want to pay an additional premium (on top of their NI) for private healthcare, that's fine by me. But their premiums should pay for private facilities & staff. The NHS should continue to be funded by NI contributions, and without the private patients "jumping the queue", hopefully everyone relying on the NHS should be able to get better & quicker treatment. Oh, and I also think that anyone going into healthcare management should have to do 6 months as an auxiliary nurse, but that's a whole different story...

The last thing I'd like to see in UK is the American HMO system, but I fear it's coming...

No it wasn't aimed at you, it was a response to the op. As you said, The Sun is hardly top drawer reporting & they aren't exactly known to be balanced. My view on where it goes wrong is the mis management of funds. Using money for admin instead of doctors & nurses.

Have not had national health care insurance for 22 years. Always pay my way and don't expect my government or family to cover me. Same as Tustsi, when the time comes. the time comes. You live overseas and expect your gov and taxpayers to take care of you? Bulltwat.

Boon, ask Spee's mum if you two can go and play with the traffic?

It's not the private healthcare that's the trouble in the NHS, it's the stultifying bureaucracy. I used to work for a supplier who made niche products that were demonstrably guaranteed to reduce waiting list times for one particular speciality bigtime. We sold some systems to an NHS Trust and spent the next 2 years trying to install them. We had endless rounds of meetings with Managers, Project Managers, IT specialists. It just went on and on. In the end I said that I was no longer willing to deal with anybody who was a 'Manager'. I would only deal with the frontline staff, nurses, Sisters, Docs. We then installed 10 systems in 2 months.

Have not had national health care insurance for 22 years. Always pay my way and don't expect my government or family to cover me. Same as Tustsi, when the time comes. the time comes. You live overseas and expect your gov and taxpayers to take care of you? Bulltwat.

Sorry Jet, don't know if that was referring to my posts, but my Mum has always paid her NI contributions (even when overseas) so she's as entitled to NHS treatment as anyone in UK. I don't, and am of the same mind as yourself & tutsi - nobody's responsibility but mine...

BTW, you paid your national health contributions for 720 years? Boy, do they owe you some money back...

Agree 100 % with Thad & endure. Easy to knock something when you have no experience with it. Over the past year I have had to get treatment for diabetes & then pregnancy & all my care has been efficiant & top class. I see a consultant & midwife, diabetic specialist & have an ultra sound every two weeks. I wonder how much of that a private insurance policy would cost me or even cover. Mistakes do happen & it is overworked but it's better IMO than people living below the poverty line being refused treatment at all because some HMO decided it isn't cost effective or they don't have/can't afford the insurance to cover it.

Another 100% agreement here.

My wife is 6 months pregnant and is having the most incredible support and treatment if that is the correct terminolgy.

I have just recovered/recovering from a bad shot of TB again the treatment was incredible, I also suffer from another condition and the treatment is so in-depth and on-the-ball I am in awe of the NHS.

I also have Private Medical Care paid for by the Company so I guess I have the best of both worlds.

As a Parthian Shot though, I do have Relatives who worked in the NHS in previous years and they are all suggesting that it has seriously been down-graded in recent years, unfortunate but politics I am afraid and not the fault of the staff.

Good Luck

Moss

This British hospital misses patient's cancer on 50 visits in a row. He would have gone back for visit 51, but he died. Anyone still alive across the pond: how's that socialized health care working out, eh?

Link

Happy now you had confirmed that religious, conservative, capitalism works? ... eh, but it doesn't does it? How many people are dying on the streets in your glorious US of A because they just couldn't afford health care.

Boon Me..Why dont you stick to chasing Terrorist, Like Chase Yourself..

Cause Pal, Doctors aint God You Know, Why dont you look at all the Good things they Do..

Sure, they make mistakes, unlike you they are HUMAN...

I dislike when Americans go after socialized medicine, which means they are republicans. Ia saddens me for in my country America, there are people who can't get health care of any kind. I myself because of being in between jobs couldn't take my daughter to the doctor when she was sick. In a counrty as wealthy as ours this is a shame, a low down rotten greedy shame. That someone is not good enough to be taken care of is sad. America should have socialized medicine years if we really wanted to be an example to the world. So, much for the city on the hill.

conservative, republican America is not an example to anyone...it's policies are to be either loathed or pityed depending on one's manner and temperment...

conservative, republican America is not an example to anyone...it's policies are to be either loathed or pityed depending on one's manner and temperment...

LOL, that's great Tutsi, can I please quote you?

I dislike when Americans go after socialized medicine, which means they are republicans. Ia saddens me for in my country America, there are people who can't get health care of any kind. I myself because of being in between jobs couldn't take my daughter to the doctor when she was sick. In a counrty as wealthy as ours this is a shame, a low down rotten greedy shame. That someone is not good enough to be taken care of is sad. America should have socialized medicine years if we really wanted to be an example to the world. So, much for the city on the hill.

If they insist on choosing the rights of insurance companies over their citizens, they should at least make an exception and provide healthcare to everyone until their 18th birthday.

One day maybe they'll catch up with the rest of the world.

Funny thing is that the US spends more per capita on health care than some countries with universal health care, yet so many people are not covered. That's the profit margins sucking up the health dollars. Yet it's not saving taxpayers a dime.

Although America might spend more on health care, at least there is not the waiting for critical care that exists with socialized medicine. To wit:

"The Observer (12/16/01) also reported, "A recent academic study showed National Health Service delays in bowel cancer treatment were so great that, in one in five cases, cancer which was curable at the time of diagnosis had become incurable by the time of treatment."

"The story is no better in Canada's national health care system. The Vancouver, British Columbia-based Fraser Institute has a yearly publication titled, "Waiting Your Turn." Its 2006 edition gives waiting times, by treatments, from a person's referral by a general practitioner to treatment by a specialist. The shortest waiting time was for oncology (4.9 weeks). The longest waiting time was for orthopedic surgery (40.3 weeks), followed by plastic surgery (35.4 weeks) and neurosurgery (31.7 weeks"

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Well, the Fraser Institute being a well known right wing lobby group that even alot of members of the conservative party dismiss as being too extreme, you need to look for a more reliable source.

In any case, a waiting list beats outright denial of care.

In any case, a waiting list beats outright denial of care.

If you don't die first waiting on that procedure, eh?

They long ago discovered this thing called triage that puts those in immediate need to the front of the line and it still works today. I've never seen anyone waiting for cancer treatments or anything life threatening. I've never seen anyone cut off of treatment because it was costing too much, and I like the fact that it's against the law to deny care to anyone.

Just another situation where the rest of the developed world seems to get what the US doesn't. Fortunately the rich and powerful have plenty of unthinking drones to parrot their thinking, die in their wars, and and be sentenced to death by HMO bean counters. Glad you're happy with it Boon, and I hope for your sake, you never wind up unemployed with a tumor.

Although America might spend more on health care, at least there is not the waiting for critical care that exists with socialized medicine. To wit:

"The Observer (12/16/01) also reported, "A recent academic study showed National Health Service delays in bowel cancer treatment were so great that, in one in five cases, cancer which was curable at the time of diagnosis had become incurable by the time of treatment."

What a crock! A story written in February 2007 is using statistics from 2001! That story is is 5 years old. Any suspected cancer in the UK must now be seen within 2 weeks of the original diagnosis.

But using accurate information wouldn't back up their political views silly.

But using accurate information wouldn't back up their political views silly.

Well, why is it we continue to read such 'information' as the following:?

"In Canada, the average wait to see a specialist is 17 weeks. The newly-elected president of the Canadian Medical Association told the New York Times, “This is a country in which a dog can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two or three years.”

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Trolling Monday already? How time flies.