Thaksin’s son Panthongtae formally joins Pheu Thai party

[Eric Loh]

20 minutes ago, scorecard said:

"Providing they are even allowed to participate of course. "

 

Just wondering whether the other parties will be allowed to openly / easily contact the electorate and speak with the electorate in local village etc., discussions, in the red areas?

 

And just wondering how active the 'red democracy schools' are now and even more so in the run up to the election date? (Meaning active behind the scene / controlling the village folks.)

 

And just wondering whether the election commission will be actively watching this subject areas across all of Thailand is is the 'new' EC just as toothless and inactive as the previous recent folks?

You really need to stop wondering and walking needlessly around. It is very disturbing. If you have the facts that red villages still survived after the intense purged and under the watchful eyes of the military, please spit it out or forever hold your tongue. By the way, the new EC is armed to the teeth in dispensing unfair practices for their junta master and have started in earnest to gerrymander the constituency maps. 

[Jim1000]

Reading all this , it seems to me we need another good old fashioned coupe before things can change !

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

Let's just wait and see what the Thais think of that one. Stop speaking for all Thais, before you know it, they give PTP another landslide election victory. Providing they are even allowed to participate of course. Watch this space, I expect dissolvement within a few weeks, or as close to whatever deadline they put into that constitution as possible.

 

In any case, Chalerm has not been shoved down their throats like Prayuth was. Another nuance lost on you I guess..

 

 

"Stop speaking for all Thais......"

Take your own medicine!

 

 

[scorecard]

9 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

You really need to stop wondering and walking needlessly around. It is very disturbing. If you have the facts that red villages still survived after the intense purged and under the watchful eyes of the military, please spit it out or forever hold your tongue. By the way, the new EC is armed to the teeth in dispensing unfair practices for their junta master and have started in earnest to gerrymander the constituency maps. 

And I hope the EC are still watching very very carefully, they will need to be every day with the red and UDD operations.  

[Vacuum]

10 hours ago, scorecard said:

Well yes, to have chalerm as a lead man in their election campaign is a disgrace and an insult to the intelligence of all Thais. 

But he can't hear the complaints..

[Eric Loh]

13 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Of course they won't go away. The prize is too great and the only real risk is being exiled. 

 

They've seen the likes of Marcos, the Lees, Hun Sen and others get a family dynasty in place and pillage and thieve vast amounts. Just like his dad's old mate Mugabe, they think they're entitled.

There is only 1 dynasty in Thailand. The Shin don’t qualified as dynasty. They have to be elected and they can’t change the constitution and laws to allow them to stay in power. That is in the purview of the military who also stage coups so that they can pillage and thieve vast amount with impunity. You should know all this by now. No?. 

[Eric Loh]

38 minutes ago, scorecard said:

And I hope the EC are still watching very very carefully, they will need to be every day with the red and UDD operations.  

Why? For subscribing to the universal suffrage and electing leaders that they want? 

[scorecard]

54 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

There is only 1 dynasty in Thailand. The Shin don’t qualified as dynasty. They have to be elected and they can’t change the constitution and laws to allow them to stay in power. That is in the purview of the military who also stage coups so that they can pillage and thieve vast amount with impunity. You should know all this by now. No?. 

Seems you have forgotten the incident when oakey said 'my father will be the first president oof Thailand for life'.

 

 

[scorecard]

52 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Why? For subscribing to the universal suffrage and electing leaders that they want? 

Funniest thing you've said this year.

[Eric Loh]

14 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Seems you have forgotten the incident when oakey said 'my father will be the first president oof Thailand for life'.

 

 

Come on Score. Surely you can’t fool anyone with that unfounded LM allegation? Probably still in your wondering state of mind. 

[Eric Loh]

13 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Funniest thing you've said this year.

Probably funny to junta apologist and non universal suffrage subscriber. 

[sjaak327]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Actually it's not lost at all.

I suspect many posters have some / serious doubts in regard to how well informed an enormous number of voters are and whether they are still being controlled.

 

 

Yes the old broken record. I think that when that point is concerned you will find they are extremely well informed. Also good to note that during that period, voting was secret. No fingerprinting ballots like the junta did....

Edited November 27, 2018 by sjaak327

[sjaak327]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

"Stop speaking for all Thais......"

Take your own medicine!

 

 

I am not speaking for all Thais. I simply said to wait for the actual results... If the history of the last two decades is anything to go by, my prediction is a sound one...

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Probably funny to junta apologist and non universal suffrage subscriber. 

And again you make things up as you go along, to suit your need to glorify your idols.

 

Your actually quite dishonest, I have never ever said anything to indicate I don't support / respect universal suffrage and you actually don't know my views on this subject, in reality I am a strong supporter of universal suffrage and democracy (real democracy) and sharing the wealth. 

 

Pity you weren't at a seminar at the NUS National University of Singapore arranged jointly by the post graduate studies arms of the Economics faculty and the Executive Leadership School.

 

I gave a joint opening address along with 3 other invited presenters, all asked to share our personal beliefs which then constituted a numbers of break out discussions.

 

My address was in macro terms based on what I wrote just above in terms of my own strong beliefs on strong support for universal suffrage, democracy (real democracy) and sharing the wealth and selected socialism. I also mentioned support for researching the idea of legal caps on the extent of the gap in salary and benefits. 

 

 

 

[scorecard]

38 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Yes the old broken record. I think that when that point is concerned you will find they are extremely well informed. Also good to note that during that period, voting was secret. No fingerprinting ballots like the junta did....

So why did very recent surveys show a large number of citizens are lost and confused about politics and the election?

Edited November 27, 2018 by scorecard

[sjaak327]

So why did very recent surveys show a large number of citizens are lost and confused about politics and the election?

No. They were lost about the new way of counting the votes. And they are right, it is needlessly convoluted and confusing.

 

Well, there is a need, to create an unlevel playing field that might favour the junta.

 

Seems the EC themselves are confused as well considering they have been granted 60 days to count the votes!!!

 

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

And again you make things up as you go along, to suit your need to glorify your idols.

 

Your actually quite dishonest, I have never ever said anything to indicate I don't support / respect universal suffrage and you actually don't know my views on this subject, in reality I am a strong supporter of universal suffrage and democracy (real democracy) and sharing the wealth. 

 

Pity you weren't at a seminar at the NUS National University of Singapore arranged jointly by the post graduate studies arms of the Economics faculty and the Executive Leadership School.

 

I gave a joint opening address along with 3 other invited presenters, all asked to share our personal beliefs which then constituted a numbers of break out discussions.

 

My address was in macro terms based on what I wrote just above in terms of my own strong beliefs on strong support for universal suffrage, democracy (real democracy) and sharing the wealth and selected socialism. I also mentioned support for researching the idea of legal caps on the extent of the gap in salary and benefits. 

 

 

 

Since you talk and feel strongly about real democracy, allow me to quote you a definition from New Compass's Camilla Hansen. A real democracy is a direct and participatory democracy in which all citizens have the possibility and the right to participate in the decisions that affect our lives and our communities. This contrast with representative democracy that was the norm for Thailand before 1990. Before 1990, democracy is equated with representative government based on free elections of political elites that rule on the citizen's behalf. The coming Feb election has all the features of Thailand moving backwards to representative government aka military parties and laws favouring them to win and form the next government and most likely a general PM. If you are a strong supporter of real democracy, I am glad for you and you should also stop supporting the junta. 

 

PS. I am from NTU not NUS.

[zzaa09]

44 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Since you talk and feel strongly about real democracy, allow me to quote you a definition from New Compass's Camilla Hansen. A real democracy is a direct and participatory democracy in which all citizens have the possibility and the right to participate in the decisions that affect our lives and our communities. This contrast with representative democracy that was the norm for Thailand before 1990. Before 1990, democracy is equated with representative government based on free elections of political elites that rule on the citizen's behalf. The coming Feb election has all the features of Thailand moving backwards to representative government aka military parties and laws favouring them to win and form the next government and most likely a general PM. If you are a strong supporter of real democracy, I am glad for you and you should also stop supporting the junta. 

 

PS. I am from NTU not NUS.

I believe that all direct and participating democracies the world over - elected representative parliamentary form - are largely flawed, and have been for quite some time. The said "people represented" politicians have less to do with the community/population than they might regarding the expected vested, personal, and political interests - 

 

Very much akin to criminally organised associations, yet "democratic" [not] in nature.

[starky]

On 11/26/2018 at 4:19 PM, robblok said:

Yea he is a real political heavy-weight. No nepotism or anything. If anything the junta will die laughing.

But i must admit a perfect PTP candidate caught cheating on tests and all. Just what they need and he has the mandatory court cases going against him. On par for the course.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
 

Well if the junta will die laughing they should have no problem putting it to the vote and then the rest of us can die laughing waiting for the next coup when the shins kick the yellows arse all over again and again and again.

[robblok]

Well if the junta will die laughing they should have no problem putting it to the vote and then the rest of us can die laughing waiting for the next coup when the shins kick the yellows arse all over again and again and again.

They are putting it to the vote, no way they will beat the Shins in the amount of votes.

But that does not make my remarks any less true.

That i comment on the nepotism and suitability of Oak does not mean i think people like Toady are better.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[starky]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

They are putting it to the vote, no way they will beat the Shins in the amount of votes.

But that does not make my remarks any less true.

That i comment on the nepotism and suitability of Oak does not mean i think people like Toady are better.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
 

Surely you understand Thailand enough to know that there will never be such a thing as no nepotism? You would have to get rid of one rather important institution waaaay before you could worry about that. You understand what nepotism means and how it relates to Thailand yeah? Not your rainbow utopia.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Since you talk and feel strongly about real democracy, allow me to quote you a definition from New Compass's Camilla Hansen. A real democracy is a direct and participatory democracy in which all citizens have the possibility and the right to participate in the decisions that affect our lives and our communities. This contrast with representative democracy that was the norm for Thailand before 1990. Before 1990, democracy is equated with representative government based on free elections of political elites that rule on the citizen's behalf. The coming Feb election has all the features of Thailand moving backwards to representative government aka military parties and laws favouring them to win and form the next government and most likely a general PM. If you are a strong supporter of real democracy, I am glad for you and you should also stop supporting the junta. 

 

PS. I am from NTU not NUS.

I'm well aware of all of this stuff and I don't need your lecture, which is highly likely to have a specific angle - to make your idol family look like saints. Give over. 

 

But never mind continue with your junta lover diatribe if it makes you feel good.

 

And interesting that you mention before 1990, perhaps you should rethink that angle. 

 

Perhaps it might be fun to go back through some of your posts to explain where many of your biased statements are highly flawed. Never mind, I can't be bothered. 

 

I have no idea why you mention "I am from NTU not NUS"

 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, starky said:

Surely you understand Thailand enough to know that there will never be such a thing as no nepotism? You would have to get rid of one rather important institution waaaay before you could worry about that. You understand what nepotism means and how it relates to Thailand yeah? Not your rainbow utopia.

I know and surely you understand that all this fighting and killing and coups are all about money and only if you take money out of the politics with good laws and checks will the violence and coups stop. Yea i know an uptopia so the violence will go on because they are all selfish b...... who only care about their own pocket. That includes junta and all old democratic parties.

 

Nothing will change when there is too much money to be made from being in power. Those in power doing nothing about this are all guilty.

[GarryP]

20 minutes ago, robblok said:

I know and surely you understand that all this fighting and killing and coups are all about money and only if you take money out of the politics with good laws and checks will the violence and coups stop. Yea i know an uptopia so the violence will go on because they are all selfish b...... who only care about their own pocket. That includes junta and all old democratic parties.

 

Nothing will change when there is too much money to be made from being in power. Those in power doing nothing about this are all guilty.

Out of interest, how are you going to take the money out of politics? Via coup or democratically? Surely a coup would never work? So we are left with elections. But you have to accept the results of a democratic election (not the upcoming election which is far from democratic), even if you do not like the parties that form the government. It is then up to the people to push the government in the right way, push for legislative changes, push for oversight and if these things are not forthcoming, then vote them out in the next election and so on. You cannot stop money politics over night, but you could never stop the thieving via coup because there is no oversight at all then. 

 

So many people bang on about democratic elections but do not accept the results when it is not a party to their liking. However unlikely, if PT wins the next election (despite all barriers put in its way) you can be sure that there will be a number of posters here who would be calling foul. 

 

We all know that a large number of the former MPs on both sides are self serving and looking out to line their own pockets, but we have to start somewhere. Also, there are alternative parties who may better serve the interests of the public.   

[robblok]

1 minute ago, GarryP said:

Out of interest, how are you going to take the money out of politics? Via coup or democratically? Surely a coup would never work? So we are left with elections. But you have to accept the results of a democratic election (not the upcoming election which is far from democratic), even if you do not like the parties that form the government. It is then up to the people to push the government in the right way, push for legislative changes, push for oversight and if these things are not forthcoming, then vote them out in the next election and so on. You cannot stop money politics over night, but you could never stop the thieving via coup because there is no oversight at all then. 

 

So many people bang on about democratic elections but do not accept the results when it is not a party to their liking. However unlikely, if PT wins the next election (despite all barriers put in its way) you can be sure that there will be a number of posters here who would be calling foul. 

 

We all know that a large number of the former MPs on both sides are self serving and looking out to line their own pockets, but we have to start somewhere. Also, there are alternative parties who may better serve the interests of the public.   

Of course it should be done by democratic election, coups don't seem to work. It would have to be the politicians themselves who do this. That is the problem, as most of them are in  politics because of the money. So I doubt it will happen fast but if they don't do it the violence will continue.

 

I hope future forward is clean.. cant say it is but it is promising.

 

But really do you things will ever change when there is so much money to be made in politics ? They all then want to be back in power to steal that money. So i actually blame the politicians too for not acting. They want to get rich from the corruption and find it strange that others will do other crimes (coups) to do the same (corruption is a crime still). 

 

I really don't see things changing unless this happens unless you see human nature change all of a sudden. So i feel those self serving politicians are part of the problem just like the self serving generals. As long as people vote for them nothing will ever change.

 

People can talk all they want about democracy but it only works if laws are upheld and checks and balances too. otherwise its not even a true democracy. The posters here with preference for the Shins often bring up democracy even though this is not a full democracy and the Shins (and others) have no intention of it getting to a full democracy as that means no more money.

 

Anyway I am no longer pro coups as i seen 2 and they did not work, but also the elections don't seem to work. I mean that the politicians have no intention of upholding any laws that make it harder for them. 

 

You have read that i often said the old politicians have failed and i really mean it as they are part of the problem and this will go on and on. The generals wont change and those self serving politicians wont change. So violence will go on until people vote for good alternatives.

 

My only problem with this is that Thailand might end up like the Maladives where the corrupt politicians ran up such a debt that they sold assets of the country (a port) to the Chinese. Do we really want Thailand to be ruined financially until people understand. If the PTP had the 2.7 trillion baht loan from the Chinese it would have been a step in that direction. 

[scorecard]

5 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Out of interest, how are you going to take the money out of politics? Via coup or democratically? Surely a coup would never work? So we are left with elections. But you have to accept the results of a democratic election (not the upcoming election which is far from democratic), even if you do not like the parties that form the government. It is then up to the people to push the government in the right way, push for legislative changes, push for oversight and if these things are not forthcoming, then vote them out in the next election and so on. You cannot stop money politics over night, but you could never stop the thieving via coup because there is no oversight at all then. 

 

So many people bang on about democratic elections but do not accept the results when it is not a party to their liking. However unlikely, if PT wins the next election (despite all barriers put in its way) you can be sure that there will be a number of posters here who would be calling foul. 

 

We all know that a large number of the former MPs on both sides are self serving and looking out to line their own pockets, but we have to start somewhere. Also, there are alternative parties who may better serve the interests of the public.   

 All good points.

 

I seems to me that we all need to hope that sooner or later a new younger face, never seen before, who can form a party of clean young folks more interested in good things for Thailand jumps up and is clever enough / charismatic enough to sweep the populace off their feet and starts a revolution of good solid well locked into place change, all well understood by the populace.

 

A total fantasy, maybe yes maybe no, we have to wait and see.  Is it this time around? Can a seed be planted this time around? I admit I'm not holding my breath.