Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[anon676545345]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Hi Chartist - is this your text below evadgib's post? I seems to have been included in his quoted segment, but the original post doesn't include it so I presume that it is a formatting issue, and the prose is yours?

 

If I am correct, the myriad contradictions within which you have entangled yourself suggest that your views on Brexit are somewhat emotional rather than rational and thought out; certainly beyond politics, but straying into jingoism territory? 

 

Far be it from me to suggest that you were ripe for grooming, but you seem to have swallowed the right wing kool-aid by the gallon.

 

The ultimate irony - you rant about your contempt for anyone who dares to hold views contrary to your own, stating that you dislike them on a cellular level, yet it is this 'spindly armed soy boy' who is the dangerous one? Do you have no mirrors in your house?

 

It was a formatting issue and the text is indeed mine. The basic context of your post is precisely why I dislike remainers so much, you all make the assumption that Brexit supporters are uninformed idiots, motivated solely by nationalism. 

 

I'm not particularly political the only thing I've ever voted on in my life was the referendum, and I put a great deal of thought into doing so. The EU puts free trade and free capital mobility above all else, it's always business infront of workers rights, EU social legislation is riddled with opt out for employers making agency work and zero hour contracts the norm. I've worked on agency and it's absolutely garbage, I'm out in the UK winter doing the work yet some office dwelling parasite is creaming off the top whilst I get zero holiday pay, not overtime rate and no job security.

 

When you look at the organisations and personalities who support remain the likes of Blair, Cameron, the IMF, CBI, WTO, every major bank and financial institution then you can guarantee it's not to protect workers rights. We've been subject to a media barrage over the last 2 years ridiculing leave voters, stoking fear and making it all about immigration, no ones even attempted to discuss workers rights or the EU's democratic deficit. 

 

I feel like remainers are trying to delegitimise my concerns and subvert democracy to suit their own personal gains. They don't love the EU they're just worried about their house price dipping or having to go to a bit of extra effort to go on European holidays, as far as they're concerned "I'm alright Jack, I wish these plebs would shut up and get on with it". 

 

 

[RuamRudy]

45 minutes ago, Chartist said:

The basic context of your post is precisely why I dislike remainers so much, you all make the assumption that Brexit supporters are uninformed idiots, motivated solely by nationalism. 

Can you see the obvious falacy in your opening comment?

 

47 minutes ago, Chartist said:

The EU puts free trade and free capital mobility above all else, it's always business infront of workers rights, EU social legislation is riddled with opt out for employers making agency work and zero hour contracts the norm. I've worked on agency and it's absolutely garbage, I'm out in the UK winter doing the work yet some office dwelling parasite is creaming off the top whilst I get zero holiday pay, not overtime rate and no job security.

I am staunchly working class and will support my fellow proles wherever I can - which makes me wonder why so many are willing to follow the lead of hedge fund sharks such as Rees Mogg, Farage, Banks etc. Do you honestly believe that these people want what is best for you? The very people who deliberately lied on referendum night to screw 300 million from the money markets on the back of a false claim for Remain?

 

Do you seriously think that Rees Mogg is going to push for workers' rights in the new post-EU workers' paradise? No - these people are the ones responsible for how sh!t the UK is now, and they are only going to make it worse. You have fallen for the seductive lies of the true villains in this piece.

 

51 minutes ago, Chartist said:

I feel like remainers are trying to delegitimise my concerns and subvert democracy to suit their own personal gains. They don't love the EU they're just worried about their house price dipping or having to go to a bit of extra effort to go on European holidays, as far as they're concerned "I'm alright Jack, I wish these plebs would shut up and get on with it". 

Are you familiar with the EU Tax Avoidance Legislation that will take effect next year? Our friends mentioned above are potentially going to be badly affected if Brexit is derailed - that is the whole point of Brexit. Do you want to reconsider who is going to gain personally from this endeavour? 

[7by7]

1 hour ago, damascase said:

If a Member State of the EU doesn’t want a ‘Federal Europe’, all it has to do is to vote against it........... Of course, politicians don’t tell you that.

 

Leave politicians don't want the sheeple to know that on major decisions such as a federal Europe, European army etc., each and every member state has a veto; such decisions would happen only if it was unanimously agreed by all member states.

 

Which means, of course, that if the UK were still a member and voted against it, then it wouldn't happen; even if the other 26 voted for.

[anon676545345]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Can you see the obvious falacy in your opening comment?

 

I am staunchly working class and will support my fellow proles wherever I can - which makes me wonder why so many are willing to follow the lead of hedge fund sharks such as Rees Mogg, Farage, Banks etc. Do you honestly believe that these people want what is best for you? The very people who deliberately lied on referendum night to screw 300 million from the money markets on the back of a false claim for Remain?

 

Do you seriously think that Rees Mogg is going to push for workers' rights in the new post-EU workers' paradise? No - these people are the ones responsible for how sh!t the UK is now, and they are only going to make it worse. You have fallen for the seductive lies of the true villains in this piece.

 

Are you familiar with the EU Tax Avoidance Legislation that will take effect next year? Our friends mentioned above are potentially going to be badly affected if Brexit is derailed - that is the whole point of Brexit. Do you want to reconsider who is going to gain personally from this endeavour? 

 

Just because Farage and Mogg are pro leave doesn't mean I support them, despite being anti EU I never voted for UKIP, I also never voted for the Tories nor New Labour as their neoliberal agenda didn't represent my interests. The fact is that no party stands for workers rights anymore, the left represent big business and are pro immigration whereas the right represent big business but are anti immigration. 

 

But to say that workers will be worse off when we leave is a fallacy, we have elections every 5 years and can exert more control over our own government than we can over the EU. The EU is corporatist, pro-capitalist establishment run by the rich for the rich, what protects workers in Britain is nothing to do with the EU it's down to things like The Factory act 1948, Equal Pay act 1970 and holiday pay has been enshrined in UK law since 1938 ........ or at least it was, now not so much. 

 

Remainers have a very insular view they don't seem to look at the bigger picture, if these problems only happened in the UK it would be ridiculous to blame the EU and you could attribute them firmly to the Tories and New Labour. But they didn't only happen in the UK, de-unionisation and privatisation happened continent wide, we're all in the same boat, a sinking boat captained by Brussels. 

 

 "According to the International Labour Organisation (ILO) collective bargaining rights have fallen by an average of 21% across the ten EU countries hardest hit by the economic crisis, and have fallen by a massive 63% in Romania and 45% in Greece. The anti-trade union laws and polices passed and implemented in the UK are actually just regional versions of the articles laid down in the Lisbon Treaty. The message is clear: the EU is no place for trade unionists". 

[talahtnut]

Leaving the EU would mean, that when the revolution

comes, there will only be one government entity to

expel.

Revolution, French style,  is the the only way

to get a peoples democracy and peoples economists.

The present economy benefits only the banks,

corporations and the rich..all hoarders of our stake.

In or out of the EU we are condemned to poverty.

[rixalex]

So the EU are not good enough to be a member of but fine to become our landlords. Not exactly something to brag about if one is on the 'leave' side, I would have thought...

For me I wouldn't say it's about the EU, "not being good enough". More a case of it not serving the needs that was expected of it by a lot of people, many of whom voted to leave, and many of whom were very happy with an economic union, just not a political one.

Wanting to leave the EU does not equate to wanting to stop doing business with Europe, so a news story about the French wanting to invest in Britain is absolutely something to be pleased about.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, rixalex said:

For me I wouldn't say it's about the EU, "not being good enough". More a case of it not serving the needs that was expected of it by a lot of people, many of whom voted to leave, and many of whom were very happy with an economic union, just not a political one.

Wanting to leave the EU does not equate to wanting to stop doing business with Europe, so a news story about the French wanting to invest in Britain is absolutely something to be pleased about.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Perfectly reasonable comeback, but so much for 'sovereignty' if we flog off our utilities to foreigners.

If you don't have state institutions, you don't have a state...

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

I am staunchly working class and will support my fellow proles wherever I can - which makes me wonder why so many are willing to follow the lead of hedge fund sharks such as Rees Mogg, Farage, Banks etc. Do you honestly believe that these people want what is best for you? The very people who deliberately lied on referendum night to screw 300 million from the money markets on the back of a false claim for Remain?

1

1

You should take more notice of George Galloway; a real worker's man. A true democrat. Anti EU.

Edited December 29, 2018 by owl sees all

[rixalex]

Perfectly reasonable comeback, but so much for 'sovereignty' if we flog off our utilities to foreigners.
If you don't have state institutions, you don't have a state...

Gatwick is a state institution? Really?

It's obviously a very important transport hub for Britain but I never knew it as being a publicly owned concern?

I am indeed against state institutions being "flogged off", but to me, unless there is a security issue, if you insist on flogging them off, then flog them off to someone who will do a good job of running whatever it is, don't just sell to locals.

I really don't think Gatwick being owned by some British company versus some French company is really going to impact Britain's sovereignty. Do you really think that?

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jip99]

On 12/28/2018 at 8:10 PM, RuamRudy said:

Hey Teddy, any predictions for tomorrow's game?

 

 

He might have now.......????

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

You should take more notice of George Galloway; a real worker's man. A true democrat. Anti EU.

George Galloway, the man who would rally in a heartbeat for any region in the world seeking independence - apart from his own, which he actively seeks to undermine. 

[baboon]

28 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Gatwick is a state institution? Really?

It's obviously a very important transport hub for Britain but I never knew it as being a publicly owned concern?

I am indeed against state institutions being "flogged off", but to me, unless there is a security issue, if you insist on flogging them off, then flog them off to someone who will do a good job of running whatever it is, don't just sell to locals.

I really don't think Gatwick being owned by some British company versus some French company is really going to impact Britain's sovereignty. Do you really think that?

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

In the (Brexit) context, yes. What, we want our sovereign Parliament to enact our sovereign laws to flog our our stuff off to the foreigners whose club we no longer wish to be a member of? Because we are better off by ourselves?

But it is fine for the French, Germans, Dutch to de facto own us, yet being part of the EU is unpalatable? This simply makes no sense to me.

Edited December 29, 2018 by baboon

[melvinmelvin]

alternative ferries secured

 

UK government prepares for no deal Brexit

 

has spent some 110 million quid on contracts with ferry companies

 

UK-Seaborne + France-Brittany Ferries + Denmark-DFDS.

deals will facilitate 4000 lorries/week in addition to possibly overloaded Dover

 

so, no problem, Brie will arrive

 

[Jack100]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

You should take more notice of George Galloway; a real worker's man. A true democrat. Anti EU.

This would not be the same Gorgeous George  that  was accused of honey dipping the childrens  charity he set up in Iraq and sold off his house in a near half million quid /

A real working  class hero !

[owl sees all]

Just now, Jack100 said:

This would not be the same Gorgeous George  that  was accused of honey dipping the childrens  charity he set up in Iraq and sold off his house in a near half million quid /

A real working  class hero !

Phone him up on a Friday Evening and put that to him.

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, baboon said:

Perfectly reasonable comeback, but so much for 'sovereignty' if we flog off our utilities to foreigners.

If you don't have state institutions, you don't have a state...

which/what kind of facilities-businesses-utilities

would you like to see run by state/government?

 

[tebee]

4 hours ago, grumpy 4680 said:

           Sorry, but your wrong,   The UK does not want to be part of a Federal Europe,  thats long term thinking.

I'm sorry,you don't seem to be thinking long term either.

 

Brexit is an old fart's fantasy and as you lot die off us pro EU younger lot will replace you.

 

In a few years will  we will be applying to re-join the EU - probably on worse terms than we have now.

 

The whole thing has been a terrible waste of time and money. 

[baboon]

8 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

which/what kind of facilities-businesses-utilities

would you like to see run by state/government?

 

Most of them.

[owl sees all]

12 minutes ago, tebee said:

I'm sorry,you don't seem to be thinking long term either.

 

Brexit is an old fart's fantasy and as you lot die off us pro EU younger lot will replace you.

 

In a few years will  we will be applying to re-join the EU - probably on worse terms than we have now.

 

The whole thing has been a terrible waste of time and money. 

The people have voted. The old establishment is lost. All over Europe there is the same story. 

 

There is nothing wrong with a Europe Union! But the present model is rotten to the core and is doomed to failure.

 

GREAT Britain has got out just in time IMO.

 

I know the remoaners have to suck it up; that's what you get when you back the losing horse. but. I for one, can forgive them for their naivety and insularity.

 

Let's all pull together and make GB GREAT once more.

Edited December 29, 2018 by owl sees all

[evadgib]

Latest from JRM

 

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

The people have voted. The old establishment is lost. All over Europe there is the same story. 

 

There is nothing wrong with a Europe Union! But the present model is rotten to the core and is doomed to failure.

 

GREAT Britain has got out just in time IMO.

 

I know the remoaners have to suck it up; that's what you get when you back the losing horse. but. I for one, can forgive them for the insularity.

 

Let's all pull together and make GB GREAT once more.

Well, the dollar is going to collapse in the next couple of days according to your prediction. Does that mean the pound will surge and make Brexit and easy success?

[rixalex]

In the (Brexit) context, yes. What, we want our sovereign Parliament to enact our sovereign laws to flog our our stuff off to the foreigners whose club we no longer wish to be a member of? Because we are better off by ourselves?
But it is fine for the French, Germans, Dutch to de facto own us, yet being part of the EU is unpalatable? This simply makes no sense to me.

You ignored addressing the issue of whether or not Gatwick can really be considered a "state institute", as you implied it was.

Since I don't believe it IS, the entire premise of your argument - "selling OUR stuff off to foreigners" - rather falls down, since it hardly is OUR stuff, is it?

I think remainers often make the mistake of misrepresenting what it is that leavers want. Most commonly the line that gets trotted out is leavers want NO immigration. And here the misrepresentation is that, "we are better off by ourselves".

Rather than speaking for leavers - I think they can do that for themselves - I do wish remainers would just focus on speaking for their own cause.

Maybe it's telling that they don't. Maybe it's easier to spend time characterising people from the other side as small minded bigots who don't like foreigners?

Maybe it's easier to be passionate about stopping Brexit than it is to be passionate about returning to the EU with all for future that that holds?

Same sort of mistakes that were made back in 2016. Rather than focusing on the positives of staying in the EU it was all about what a disaster leaving was going to be.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[owl sees all]

Just now, bristolboy said:

Well, the dollar is going to collapse in the next couple of days according to your prediction. Does that mean the pound will surge and make Brexit and easy success?

The dollar is coming under extreme pressure. The Saudis are flogging their oil to Russia and getting Rubles in return. The world bond market is in deep trouble. Will not be long. 

 

Once we have left the EU hell-hole the pound will rebound.

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

The dollar is coming under extreme pressure. The Saudis are flogging their oil to Russia and getting Rubles in return. The world bond market is in deep trouble. Will not be long. 

 

Once we have left the EU hell-hole the pound will rebound.

The Saudis are selling their oil to Russia? Really? It's not surprising that you predicted the dollar's collapse by the end of 2018 if you believe that the Saudis are selling oil to Russia which is one of the world's biggest exporters of the stuff.

And you might be responsible enough to acknowledge that your prediction about the collapse of the dollar, couched as it was in such absolute terms, turns out to have been wrong. I'm betting that you will similarly evade responsibility when this bizarre prediction of yours about the pound turns out to be wrong as well.

[melvinmelvin]

33 minutes ago, baboon said:

Most of them.

right,

Brexit and Corbyn would probably be your best bet to establish that.

 

 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

The dollar is coming under extreme pressure. The Saudis are flogging their oil to Russia and getting Rubles in return. The world bond market is in deep trouble. Will not be long. 

 

Once we have left the EU hell-hole the pound will rebound.

Forget Rubles. Russia is going to pay the Saudi oil with sand. 

[baboon]

30 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Rather than speaking for leavers - I think they can do that for themselves - I do wish remainers would just focus on speaking for their own cause.

Exactly what I am doing. There are leavers and remainers of both the political right and left. I am of the left, but speaking for myself and the way I view the situation.

[rixalex]

Exactly what I am doing. There are leavers and remainers of both the political right and left. I am of the left, but speaking for myself and the way I view the situation.

Can we just deal with one matter at a time please?

You asserted that Gatwick is a publicly-owned state institution, didn't you? It's kind of fundamental to the matter we are discussing. Sovereignty. You believe that Gatwick being under foreign ownership affects Britain's sovereignty. I agree if Gatwick is indeed a publicly-owned state institution. I just wasn't aware that it was.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[talahtnut]

56 minutes ago, tebee said:

I'm sorry,you don't seem to be thinking long term either.

 

Brexit is an old fart's fantasy and as you lot die off us pro EU younger lot will replace you.

 

In a few years will  we will be applying to re-join the EU - probably on worse terms than we have now.

 

The whole thing has been a terrible waste of time and money. 

Re-joining the EU in a few years, very funny mate.

Can you not see whats happening in Europe?

Its a result of the classical economic model which

is not working, and they haven't clue what to do.

tebee, there'll be no EU to join.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[baboon]

15 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Can we just deal with one matter at a time please?

You asserted that Gatwick is a publicly-owned state institution, didn't you? It's kind of fundamental to the matter we are discussing. Sovereignty. You believe that Gatwick being under foreign ownership affects Britain's sovereignty. I agree if Gatwick is indeed a publicly-owned state institution. I just wasn't aware that it was.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

No I did not. I am asserting that from a Brext point of view, Gatwick, rail, water, electricity or whatever else should be in British hands. That is, if we truly value our sovereignty. Or why else leave the EU on the basis of this 'Getting our country back' argument?