Top 10 hard truths of living as an expat in Thailand

[Kwasaki]

12 minutes ago, Commercial Diver said:

Baloney .. 18 Years and NEVER a problem .. At Immigration you get what you Bring (attitude & politeness count ANYWHERE).

You mean patience. ????

[Commercial Diver]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

You mean patience. ????

That, Too .. ????

[ravip]

13 hours ago, darksidedog said:

All of what the article says is completely true. Life for a farang here can be extremely challenging, with I suspect all of us having a moment or two where we are ready to explode, over some outrageous situation. It is what it is though, so you either live with it or it's time to move on. Probably got a few more grey hairs than if I were somewhere else, but personally, I am staying thanks.

Life for a farang here can be extremely challenging...

Is this phenomenon experienced only by Farangs?

What about the Indians, Chinese etc.?

[ravip]

4 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

The big earner is not tourism, it's exports, tourism is only about 20% of GDP. including indirect and induced:

 

https://www.wttc.org/-/media/files/reports/economic-impact-research/countries-2018/thailand2018.pdf

These figures might disappoint many, as according to them, it's tourism that keeps Thailand afloat. 

[DJ54]

15 hours ago, YetAnother said:

thais do not want us living here and that attitude extends to immigration personnel

YetAnother maybe you had a bad experience. I live in a village 

for 3 years next month. I've never felt unwanted even when I go 

to Udon Thani, Khon Kaen or BKK.

 

I really like it here and hope the Visa situation doesn’t change being unable to qualify once in full retirement. Now showing income to 

qualify is OK.  I’ve got the income now but when Social Security 

kicks in and exchange rate stays stable (US) not lower than 30 is

workable. Not a lot of companies looking for 65 year olds. 

 

It is a lot more comfortable living than in US....and I can go to the Dr. with reasonable charges...

 

 

 

[DJ54]

15 hours ago, YetAnother said:

thais do not want us living here and that attitude extends to immigration personnel

YetAnother maybe you had a bad experience. I live in a village 

for 3 years next month. I've never felt unwanted even when I go 

to Udon Thani, Khon Kaen or BKK.

 

I really like it here and hope the Visa situation doesn’t change being unable to qualify once in full retirement. Now showing income to 

qualify is OK.  I’ve got the income now but when Social Security 

kicks in and exchange rate stays stable (US) not lower than 30 is

workable. Not a lot of companies looking for 65 year olds. 

 

It is a lot more comfortable living than in US....and I can go to the Dr. with reasonable charges...

 

 

 

[cyberfarang]

15 hours ago, YetAnother said:

thais do not want us living here and that attitude extends to immigration personnel

Total and complete rubbish.

 

I`m sure in most countries of the world the native populations couldn`t give a gnat`s chuff whether foreigners stay in their countries or not and the same applies in Thailand, that doesn`t mean they resent having us live here.

 

The answer is simple, just abide by the laws, don`t get involved, be polite, don`t criticise Thailand and the Thais and be eligible under the immigration rules to stay here and Farangs will have no problems and will enjoy a good lifestyle in Thailand.

 

No point in blaming the country and everyone else for your own failures in life.

 

 

[ravip]

"Thais do not want us living here"

"Thais are xenophobic, racist or/and insecure"

 

Every country has their own peculiarities. But people who always complain and generalise the Thais should seriously have a look at themselves! They sure might find the problem therein.

Most Thais dont care about the foreigners so long as they dont interfere in their day to day lives. Of course, at the Bars you might find many "friends"!

[simoh1490]

5 minutes ago, ravip said:

"Thais do not want us living here"

"Thais are xenophobic, racist or/and insecure"

 

Every country has their own peculiarities. But people who always complain and generalise the Thais should seriously have a look at themselves! They sure might find the problem therein.

Most Thais dont care about the foreigners so long as they dont interfere in their day to day lives. Of course, at the Bars you might find many "friends"!

Amen!

[BritManToo]

15 hours ago, HampiK said:

If you not work in Thailand and therefore not pay tax, it is impossible to become a citizen

Only if you're a man.

 

[sharktooth]

Number (2). Given the education system here, I very much doubt “most Thais know that”

[Retiredandhappyhere]

 

The article neglects to talk about attitude and outlook which I think are key and vital. To be honest, if I felt that the Thai's objected to us being here or I felt the need to bash everything Thailand at every opportunity I certainly wouldn't stay, why would I....that many other people do simply amazes me, perhaps that's why they call it amazing Thailand!

Perhaps it is the fact that we can complain about all the things that annoy us, particularly on this forum, which enables us to let off steam, without upsetting our nearest and dearest too much, and then privately we have time to reflect and realise that perhaps there are even more important things in our lives which are so good that we are able to ignore all the bad points and enjoy our stay here.  Back in our own countries, which to a large extent we have abandoned, we know that on balance we have done so because we have decided that the bad points outweigh the good.

[RocketDog]

 

Not a bad cross section, and as other posters have said, if it was so bad why stay. When people moan to me about how things are done here, I always remind them there is at least one flight a day out. I will, however, touch on one point which I quote :=

At the end of the day, ask yourself how difficult is it for Thai citizens to live in your country…

Well, for starters they can own a house, or land in their own name, second they can run a business without an English National as a majority holder, third they do not need to do 90 day reporting, I could go on but you all know already....

My country is (/was?) the United States. It is virtually impossible for Thai people, especially single Thai women to enter the USA, much less live there.

I've finally accepted the fact that my long-term Thai girlfriend will never see my country unless I marry her. Apparently me trying to aid the process almost guarantees a rapid denial.

 

If I'm wrong, and anybody has a secret formula I've missed, I would genuinely like to hear it.

 

Honestly, not sarcasm. I welcome any advice and ideas.

 

My research thus far has been a crushing discouragement.

[Sumarianson]

I dont believe it is Thai people who dont want farang here. It is the racist government. How can it be that you can have a family in Thailand and not be allowed to support them through work? It is every human beings right to work. If you don't have a stupid degree then you cannot be a teacher, the only job that they allow you to do. 

You are restricted in every way. Yet when these Thai's go to Europe or the UK they can do anything they want and be supported in that. The Thai government is a racist government who do not respect humsn rights.

[HuskerDo]

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 9:20 PM, ThreeEyedRaven said:

Wherever you go there will always be plus points along with the negative ones. If you want to live here, you just simply have to accept that it is the way things are and if you cant deal with it, move on. Having lived lots of places, Thailand for all its faults, still rates highly in my book, or I wouldn't still be here.

How long have you been there three eye?

[BobbyL]

On 12/4/2018 at 9:01 AM, RocketDog said:

My country is (/was?) the United States. It is virtually impossible for Thai people, especially single Thai women to enter the USA, much less live there.

I've finally accepted the fact that my long-term Thai girlfriend will never see my country unless I marry her. Apparently me trying to aid the process almost guarantees a rapid denial.

 

If I'm wrong, and anybody has a secret formula I've missed, I would genuinely like to hear it.

 

Honestly, not sarcasm. I welcome any advice and ideas.

 

My research thus far has been a crushing discouragement.

Sad to hear. Are you just applying for a tourist visa? 

 

I am from the UK and when me and my Thai girlfriend (now wife) were living there we went to America on holiday in 2017. They gave her a 10 year tourist visa for some strange reason and neither of us have any family, friends, ties etc to America. It was the simplest visa we have ever applied for (far easier than UK and Schengen). 

 

Perhaps the only reason for such an easy approval was she applied for the visa when being in the UK. 

[Sheryl]

Sad to hear. Are you just applying for a tourist visa? 

 

I am from the UK and when me and my Thai girlfriend (now wife) were living there we went to America on holiday in 2017. They gave her a 10 year tourist visa for some strange reason and neither of us have any family, friends, ties etc to America. It was the simplest visa we have ever applied for (far easier than UK and Schengen). 

 

Perhaps the only reason for such an easy approval was she applied for the visa when being in the UK. 

Having prior international trips in your passport helps.

 

So does having a healthy bank balance and a job to come back to. Owning property and having family are also pluses. Basically the Consular officers are looking for indications the person is a bona fide tourist and will in fact come back.

 

Thousands of Thais, including single women, do get tourist visas to the US each year. Unfortunately some of them fail to return and this makes it harder for future applicants.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Thousands of Thais, including single women, do get tourist visas to the US each year. Unfortunately some of them fail to return and this makes it harder for future applicants.

Starting from scratch these days for Thais as people from other countries must be hard now to enter US & UK legally.

 

My wife went to England 2002 it was easy process, 6 month holiday visa, then 2 year visa and could stay after that if she wanted to.

 

I know 3 young Thai ladies that have US passports but live here but can go back anytime an elderly couple neighbour do 4 months Thailand and then go back USA.

 

[RocketDog]

On 1/18/2019 at 9:21 AM, BobbyL said:

Sad to hear. Are you just applying for a tourist visa? 

 

I am from the UK and when me and my Thai girlfriend (now wife) were living there we went to America on holiday in 2017. They gave her a 10 year tourist visa for some strange reason and neither of us have any family, friends, ties etc to America. It was the simplest visa we have ever applied for (far easier than UK and Schengen). 

 

Perhaps the only reason for such an easy approval was she applied for the visa when being in the UK. 

Thanks for the reply Bobby. When did she get the visa? I think the process has gotten much tighter the last 2 years with The Grand Cheeto in charge. I am pretty sure that he has informally told all foreign embassies to discourage immigration. 

 

I've looked at visiting a country near America and then trying for a visa from there. People have told me getting her into America from Canada is also difficult. The same guy told me it would be difficult for her to get a visa to Canada too. I don't know about Mexico. 

 

Yes, I only want a tourist visa, bit for 3-4 months. I don't really want to move back to USA with or without my GF. 

 

Again, thanks for taking the time to reply. I appreciate any new data on the situation. 

 

The longer our relationship continues as happily as it is now, the closer I come to just marrying her and spending the several months it takes to get her a probationary green card, 2 years. 

 

Ironically, the more she learns about USA the more reluctant she is to go there. She does want to visit for a while but I'm pretty sure she doesn't want to live there long term. On this we agree. But it would be nice to show her my country for a few months so she understands my past better and my cultural quirks. Maybe that's just a personal vanity I have to let go of. 

 

Sheryl also replied with sincere advice and her comments have been corroborated by several knowledgeable friends. 

 

Sorry, I see you said 2017 for your holiday. Wow, now I'm baffled. Does she own property in Thailand, well traveled passport, large bank account, job in Thailand, and other aids that Sheryl mentioned? 

Edited January 19, 2019 by RocketDog
Missed some important points in my reply.

[RocketDog]

On 1/18/2019 at 9:56 AM, Sheryl said:

Having prior international trips in your passport helps.

 

So does having a healthy bank balance and a job to come back to. Owning property and having family are also pluses. Basically the Consular officers are looking for indications the person is a bona fide tourist and will in fact come back.

 

Thousands of Thais, including single women, do get tourist visas to the US each year. Unfortunately some of them fail to return and this makes it harder for future applicants.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

Sheryl, thanks for your time and the reply. I've heard the same thing from several experienced people and the information on the US embassy web site. That all makes sense too, and I get the concern about overstays. I've seen many Japanese in the USA that have abused the system for years. 

 

Unfortunately my GF is not a woman of means. She had a job working with her sister in a small food shop but not regular paycheck or employment records.

 

She is building up a bank account by saving most of the monthly stipend I give her, but that will take time. And I think time is the real issue. Certainly I could quickly increase her bank balance but that would be obvious in her bank records and probably only confirm that she was trying to game the system. 

 

She has a large family here who are all employed but are simple common folk, no hi-so, her parents are dead, and she has no dependents that are documentable, such as parents or children. 

 

She owns a car and motorcycle, but neither are high value. 

 

She owns a nice piece of property with a nice house on it with one of her sisters who is married to a Norwegian and lives there. The property is still in her mother's name since she died only last October. She has the deed and we've considered getting it transferred to her and her sister but I got discouraged and didn't pursue it.

 

She got a passport last year but it's still blank. I am planning trips to closeby Asian countries and I know that would help, as you say. But that is also a long term process. Again, time is my enemy here. 

 

My major fear is that if she applies and fails I've been told it becomes exponentially more difficult to get approval on subsequent applications. 

 

The embassy website makes it quite clear that they consider applicants to be falsifying the application and planning an overstay. Guilty until rigorously proven innocent I infer. 

 

I've also been told that taking a group tour with a company from Thailand would be approved, as would be a short term educational visa. But those are both expensive and intrinsically short term, a matter of weeks. The ED visa also requires documentation of where they will live, support the visit, etc. as well as obviously requiring them to attend the classes. That in itself is not bad, but I've checked costs in my town near Denver and it's hideously expensive and requires long hours of classes which would leave precious little time for travel or fun. 

 

I'm completely baffled as to why a  respectable citizen sponser who would post a large bond and guarantee support would not be sufficient for a 6 month visa as is acceptable for applicants from many other non-asian countries.

 

Ironically, it seems the more people the applicant knows in America, including her American lover (me) almost guarantees immediate disapproval of the application. I have a large number of friends in America who are sympathetic to my situation and would write letters of commendation, offer sponsorship, etc. if it would help. 

Having an American boyfriend is rumored to be the kiss of death,even one committed to live in Thailand like I am. 

 

I'm rambling with the hope that you can lend more insight or suggestions. 

 

I know your time is valuable but I've followed you on TVF and know you are good-hearted and offer helpful advice to others often. 

 

Thanks again for your help. I'd be thrilled to PM you if you have any ideas. 

 

Best and sincere regards 

 

 

[RocketDog]

23 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Starting from scratch these days for Thais as people from other countries must be hard now to enter US & UK legally.

 

My wife went to England 2002 it was easy process, 6 month holiday visa, then 2 year visa and could stay after that if she wanted to.

 

I know 3 young Thai ladies that have US passports but live here but can go back anytime an elderly couple neighbour do 4 months Thailand and then go back USA.

 

Thanks for the reply. I know she could enter freely if she had a USA passport, but the question is how to obtain one. 

 

I know personally that visa rules for the UK and Germany are considerably laxer. 

 

The USA is the most difficult country in the world to obtain a visa to and getting harder every day. 

Thanks

[Kwasaki]

18 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

The USA is the most difficult country in the world to obtain a visa to and getting harder every day. 

Thanks

England has made it very difficult now for people of certain countries to stay but holiday visits are still possible I believe. 

 

If it is so important to you for your girlfriend to visit America commitment is one of the many things they look into.

I wouldn't of thought marriage alone would make it any easier. 

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, RocketDog said:

Sheryl, thanks for your time and the reply. I've heard the same thing from several experienced people and the information on the US embassy web site. That all makes sense too, and I get the concern about overstays. I've seen many Japanese in the USA that have abused the system for years. 

 

Unfortunately my GF is not a woman of means. She had a job working with her sister in a small food shop but not regular paycheck or employment records.

 

She is building up a bank account by saving most of the monthly stipend I give her, but that will take time. And I think time is the real issue. Certainly I could quickly increase her bank balance but that would be obvious in her bank records and probably only confirm that she was trying to game the system. 

 

She has a large family here who are all employed but are simple common folk, no hi-so, her parents are dead, and she has no dependents that are documentable, such as parents or children. 

 

She owns a car and motorcycle, but neither are high value. 

 

She owns a nice piece of property with a nice house on it with one of her sisters who is married to a Norwegian and lives there. The property is still in her mother's name since she died only last October. She has the deed and we've considered getting it transferred to her and her sister but I got discouraged and didn't pursue it.

 

She got a passport last year but it's still blank. I am planning trips to closeby Asian countries and I know that would help, as you say. But that is also a long term process. Again, time is my enemy here. 

 

My major fear is that if she applies and fails I've been told it becomes exponentially more difficult to get approval on subsequent applications. 

 

The embassy website makes it quite clear that they consider applicants to be falsifying the application and planning an overstay. Guilty until rigorously proven innocent I infer. 

 

I've also been told that taking a group tour with a company from Thailand would be approved, as would be a short term educational visa. But those are both expensive and intrinsically short term, a matter of weeks. The ED visa also requires documentation of where they will live, support the visit, etc. as well as obviously requiring them to attend the classes. That in itself is not bad, but I've checked costs in my town near Denver and it's hideously expensive and requires long hours of classes which would leave precious little time for travel or fun. 

 

I'm completely baffled as to why a  respectable citizen sponser who would post a large bond and guarantee support would not be sufficient for a 6 month visa as is acceptable for applicants from many other non-asian countries.

 

Ironically, it seems the more people the applicant knows in America, including her American lover (me) almost guarantees immediate disapproval of the application. I have a large number of friends in America who are sympathetic to my situation and would write letters of commendation, offer sponsorship, etc. if it would help. 

Having an American boyfriend is rumored to be the kiss of death,even one committed to live in Thailand like I am. 

 

I'm rambling with the hope that you can lend more insight or suggestions. 

 

I know your time is valuable but I've followed you on TVF and know you are good-hearted and offer helpful advice to others often. 

 

Thanks again for your help. I'd be thrilled to PM you if you have any ideas. 

 

Best and sincere regards 

 

 

Letters of sponsorship etc will NOT help, in fact the opposite as would further give the impression she is intending to remain long term in the US. An ordinary tourist does not need a "sponsor".

 

Get the house and land in her name, that will help. And do indeed take some trips abroad to build up a history of travelling and returning.

 

Forget about educational visas and the like, the Embassy will see right through it and count the ploy against her.  When she does apply she needs to be completely honest.

 

What exactly is the time urgency?

[RocketDog]

Sheryl and Benroon, thanks for the reply.

 

There is no solid urgency per se, but no particular reason to delay a trip either. I would like to take her home this year but it appears that a 2 year time window of travel and other preparations is more realistic. 

 

I must admit that I'd rather not spend travel money and time with my GF going to nearby Asian countries just to build a travel history. For me and certainly for her the Asian countries will not be new and exciting. Introducing her to my country would be fun for both of us and we could travel extensively both culturally and geographically in America cheaper than is Asia. In short it irks me that I have little choice in the matter. 

 

Yes, I fully understand that my association with her would be detrimental to the application and stated such as the kiss of death. I was just observing that this stance is illogical. I am being forced to play a game with the US consulate instead of simply posting a bond, such as $10,000 that I would forfeit if she overstayed. I would be her sponsor, with solid contact information, and legal and binding responsibility for her living expenses and health care. Seems very straightforward to me. 

 

Benroon, thanks for your input but as you may know application for visa depends greatly on the issuing government and the citizenship of the applicant. A Japanese citizen visiting America can easily get a 3 month visa UPON ENTRY to the my country while people from Asian countries like Cambodia, Thailand, Malaysia, and Burma must practically jump through burning hoops and grueling interviews to get a two week visa, especially if they are single females below the age of 70. And yes, I am bitter about that. 

 

So your experience with the UK visa is similar, apparently just as capricious, but not necessarily relevant to my situation. The USA is one of the most difficult countries in the world to get a visa for if you are from SE Asia. Thanks for your thoughts though. 

 

So I guess we will pursue the travel logging route to fill the passport and get her land titled in her name. Realistically, from your account Sheryl, there is little else I can do.

 

Apparrntly my research thus far really has framed the situation truthfully in all its petty and arbitrary ignominy. 

 

Pretty sad as far as I'm concerned. 

I've been a professional and high wage earner (read high tax payer) in my home country most of my life and this is the compensation I get for it. 

 

Maybe in the end I should just transfer all of my assets out of America and forget about the rapidly diminishing "American Dream". 

[Sheryl]

The problem is that (1) she obviously can't afford to travel to the US as a tourist and (2) having a serious American boyfriend paying for it raises suspicion that this is an attempt to circumvate the procedure for a spousal visa. And that in turn is because it happens; many people have done that. You ate oaying the price for other people's dishonesty.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[jmd8800]

A few years ago an immigration attorney in the USA told me that scrutiny of the individual is easier before that person enters the country. In this case the USA. Once a foreigner is inside the country, and the couple marries inside the country they can apply for a change of status based on marriage to a USA citizen. At that point it would be awfully hard to deport the foreigner without due process which would take a few years. The attorney said that due process also includes the USA citizen's right to marry whom ever he/she wishes. So to arbitrarily deport that spouse would be a violation of the USA citizen's rights.

[Henryford]

None of those 10 are a big deal. Visas are important but i spend 5 minutes 4 times a year for my 90 day and 20 minutes once a year for my retirement extension. I never expected love from a bar girl. At least they talk to me which a 20 year old in the UK wouldn't. The one hard truth i do bother about is wine. Wine in Thailand has become nearly unaffordable (for those on a budget) and it's hard to think i will never drink wine again (except as an irregular treat).

[RocketDog]

Thanks Benroon. 

It makes me wonder how high the 'ransom' would have to be before nobody was willing to pay it to 'disappear' into the country. As if it's actually possible to disappear in any western country now considering the surveillance state most of them have become. The UK in particular is one of the worst for such things. 

 

From what I've heard from others, the USA consulates do give you a certain amount of 'credit' for returning on time after one or more visas are granted. I suspect the paper burden is the same but the prejudice is diminished somewhat on subsequent applications. 

 

But I still agree with your closing sentiments. I have no doubt that this situation will only get worse every day. 

 

I also foresee the day that a citizen leaving his own country will have to endure an inquisition before being granted permission to leave, as it already is in many authoritarian regimes. Also, taking money out of the country is almost certain to become illegal sooner or later. 

 

Think about it. If you had a herd of dairy cattle would you take kindly to one of them leaving your 'care and protection', much less taking their milk/production means with them?

 

That's why I've planted banking flags in at least two other countries several years ago, not counting my account in Thailand. I consider my account in Thailand to be at least, if not more, safe from government seizure as my account in America is. 

 

Onward through the fog my friend. 

[Teddy3943]

My experience of living in Thailand, shown as a graph, looks like a mountain. First my good feelings went up and up reached a top after 4 years, but then all the experiences made the line curb down to a level where my wife and me started talking about the possibility to move to my home country. But first we made an index on paper. We noted all the things we love(d) in Thailand (and still do) and the things we hated, The list of positive things was half a page long, but the negative side extended the length of the paper. So we moved. We still have the house and come for a long holiday every year. Me, nor my wife regretted our step to leave Thailand. The big anoyings are over!