NZ tourist sexually assualted near Grand Palace, police say

[LukKrueng]

On 12/3/2018 at 11:43 PM, marqus12 said:

she is a rape victim or rather a victim of a change of mind ?

 

20 hours ago, lemonjelly said:

Comes to Asia,  gets drunk on Khaosan RD and wanders off into the night with some random local bloke..... very silly woman,  should know better at 29 years old...hope she recovers anyway.

always the victim's fault isn't it?

[sambum]

So the nationality isn't mentioned in the headline so we can assume that it's a Thai?

 

Then we have "The court Sunday approved an arrest warrant for Arnat Ukdee, 34, on the charges of rape"

 

Now we're getting somewhere - possibly Thai going by the name and the photo?

 

 

 

Then we have"Bangkok police commander Sutthipong Wongpin told reporters Arnat “obscenely” fondled the victim, while a local police chief said there was no rape."

 

“It didn’t escalate to rape,” Col. Kiat Kabbua, head of Samranrat Police Station, said by phone.

 

"the 29-year-old left with a man at around 2.30am, and was lured into the building where he then attacked her". And then:-

 

 Col. Krissana said Arnat assaulted the tourist at about 3am on Saturday opposite Wat Ratchabophit while she was lost in the area.

 

Hmm! As Julie Andrews would sing "Let's start at the very beginning - a very fine place to start!"

Edited December 4, 2018 by sambum

[bristolgeoff]

if they find him you know what he will say,she admitted she was drunk and had being drinking.we both consented to sex.it will be her word against him,nothing will happen except the police will tell both of them off severely.maybe some people will disagree with that but it happen a few times down south recently and nothing happened and i think drink was also used.one time in cnx i saw a thai lady with a amercian drinking,both very drunk.if you said leave the scooter in the bar taxi  home or tuk tuk.anyway they did,nt she drove he fell off the back.accident and she was in hospital for a week come out looked in bad shape for a few extra weeks.if you said don,t drive at  all to her she would not listen and did what she wanted.maybe she may have changed her mind to you later it was  fault you did not stop me from getting on the bike drunk and look what happened.

      so drink and being drunk you say things and may regret later when u realise the result.don,t come back and blame anybody else for what u done that night

[Blackheart1916]

8 hours ago, fullcave said:

So you think she may have "changed her mind" so, therefore, deserved to be raped? 

No I don't, but there has been instances where two people have engaged in consensual sex, than one changes their mind AFTER the fact, and claims rape. All I'm saying is that this is one of the possibilities, it has happened in Thailand in very recent times.

[lvr181]

16 hours ago, Aussie999 said:

BS, it degrades the victim, for no reason, except some dudes on here to get their jollies off. They wouldn't say these things if the victim was a friend/family member. Have you never heard of compassion.

And you would never challenge anything you read or be told (sexual or otherwise) would you!

[lemonjelly]

5 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

 

always the victim's fault isn't it?

Absolutely not, no.

[Aussie999]

1 hour ago, lvr181 said:

And you would never challenge anything you read or be told (sexual or otherwise) would you!

Your comment is BS, it means nothing, what are you trying to prove.

[BradWilkins]

On 12/4/2018 at 7:44 AM, lemonjelly said:

Comes to Asia,  gets drunk on Khaosan RD and wanders off into the night with some random local bloke..... very silly woman,  should know better at 29 years old...hope she recovers anyway.

Where does it say he was a local ? Good chance coming from Khaosan Rd it was a foreigner.

[lvr181]

5 hours ago, Aussie999 said:

Your comment is BS, it means nothing, what are you trying to prove.

DON'T believe everything you hear or read! Challenge assumptions unless someone comes up with the incontrovertible truth!

 

My apologies if I had not previously explained this simple concept to you. 

[mauGR1]

48 minutes ago, BradWilkins said:

Where does it say he was a local ? Good chance coming from Khaosan Rd it was a foreigner.

Why don't read the OP before commenting ?

[BradWilkins]

8 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Why don't read the OP before commenting ?

Nowhere does it say he is a local. It says he is a construction worker and his mugshot looks asian, but doesn't say he is Thai. If it says they are checking he doesn't flee the country he is possibly foreign. 

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, BradWilkins said:

Nowhere does it say he is a local. It says he is a construction worker and his mugshot looks asian, but doesn't say he is Thai. If it says they are checking he doesn't flee the country he is possibly foreign. 

 

Here's the update.

[mogandave]

If a drunk man were lured to an isolated area at 2:30 in the morning and robbed, I wonder how many people would feel sorry for him.

[mauGR1]

17 minutes ago, mogandave said:

If a drunk man were lured to an isolated area at 2:30 in the morning and robbed, I wonder how many people would feel sorry for him.

Except that being sexually abused or raped is worse than being robbed, imo, i might put a light blame on the victim as well.

Of course i am not condoning any bad action, but grown people should know better.

[mogandave]

Except that being sexually abused or raped is worse than being robbed, imo, i might put a light blame on the victim as well.
Of course i am not condoning any bad action, but grown people should know better.

Okay, the man was sexually assaulted.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, mogandave said:

 

Okay, the man was sexually assaulted.
 

 

I would feel sorry for him, but i can agree that in our culture, and rightly so, we tend to be more protective with women.

[sambum]

3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

 

Here's the update.

As I said earlier, the very fact that his nationality was not mentioned in the headline speaks volumes! And his name and mugshot also point to the fact that he is not a visitor! But I suppose that the deciding factor is that "A 34-year-old Thai construction worker (going by the same name!) has contacted police to offer to surrender" 

 

P.S. I don't suppose we're hear any more about this from the guy from Bristol who can't use capital letters in his posts!

Edited December 5, 2018 by sambum

[cyberfarang]

On 12/4/2018 at 7:49 AM, fullcave said:

This is a question or an insult to the rape victim? 

Alleged rape victim.

[cyberfarang]

On 12/3/2018 at 10:23 PM, SkyNets said:

No quote from big joke denying all allegations yet?

This Big Joke, has become a bad joke that keeps being repeated time and time again like an acute case of acid indigestion.

[fullcave]

6 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Alleged rape victim.

Yes, we know, DUH, however, there is no need to jump to the defense of the perpetrator just yet! He does not appear to be well connected so it's likely justice will be served if he is indeed guilty. 

[cyberfarang]

23 minutes ago, fullcave said:

Yes, we know, DUH, however, there is no need to jump to the defense of the perpetrator just yet! He does not appear to be well connected so it's likely justice will be served if he is indeed guilty. 

Yea right. If the guy is found not guilty or let off due to lack of evidence, everyone will say the police are trying to cover it up concerned about this having a bad impact on the Thai tourist industry and if found guilty, everyone will say that all Thai males have the same traits and rape is a part of Thainess.

 

So really it`s no win situation whichever way this goes. 

[impulse]

On 12/4/2018 at 11:01 AM, LukKrueng said:

On 12/3/2018 at 10:43 AM, marqus12 said:

she is a rape victim or rather a victim of a change of mind ?

 

On 12/3/2018 at 2:44 PM, lemonjelly said:

Comes to Asia,  gets drunk on Khaosan RD and wanders off into the night with some random local bloke..... very silly woman,  should know better at 29 years old...hope she recovers anyway.

always the victim's fault isn't it?

 

Being raped sucks for sure, but so does being locked up in a Thai prison for years and years because a drunk woman that consented to sex last night changes her mind this morning.

 

I don't know what happened here.  None of us do.  But I do know there are (at least) 2 sides to every story.  And this wouldn't be the first foreign lady raped by a local, nor the first foreign lady who decided that sex last night wasn't a good idea- regardless of which is the case.

 

And I'll repeat my oft used statement that I should be able to walk around in public with $100 bills hanging out of my pocket, should be able to leave my car running while I'm inside shopping, and I should be able to leave my front and back doors open for a cross breeze while I'm sleeping.  But that's not the way the world works and I'd be an idiot to think it was.  It doesn't excuse the perpetrator.  But that's not being a victim.  That's being a volunteer. 

[HereIAm]

It's irrelevant to the crime that she was drunk or that she wandered off at 2.30 am with a stranger. Drinking till late into the night and roaming on the street in a drunk state with strangers happens all too frequently in Bangkok. In fact this is one of the high points of a holiday in Thailand. Everyone who has travelled to Bangkok knows this, has seen  how commonplace such all night partying is in Bangkok and has probably enjoyed it at least once. Which commentator here doesn't know this fact ? Women feel safe roaming the street at night specially in the touristy areas that are thick with tourists. You hit it off with friendly companions maybe from bars, streetside eateries, or any stranger and you lengthen  the night's merriment. It's well-nigh a must-do thing. Therefore what the New Zealand woman did by way of getting drunk and going off with a  stranger was nothing extraordinary. Au contraire, it was very ordinary.

 

That is simply no reason to mock her, deride her or find fault with her for what happened. She was out having fun is not the same as she was out asking to be raped. Understand that rape is violent. Nobody could ask for it. Those that fault her ought to stop being sick and say a little sorry, even if sotto voce.

[impulse]

6 minutes ago, HereIAm said:

Women feel safe roaming the street at night specially in the touristy areas that are thick with tourists. You hit it off with friendly companions maybe from bars, streetside eateries, or any stranger and you lengthen  the night's merriment. It's well-nigh a must-do thing. Therefore what the New Zealand woman did by way of getting drunk and going off with a  stranger was nothing extraordinary. Au contraire, it was very ordinary.

 

Attitudes like that contribute to the problem.  It may be ordinary, and 99% of the time, it may end fine.  But it's foolish. 

 

Edit:  It completely ignores the fact that there are predators all over in the world, and those predators concentrate where they're likely to find prey.  And holiday destinations are the civilized equivalent of water holes on the savanna.  

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by impulse

[cyberfarang]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

Being raped sucks for sure, but so does being locked up in a Thai prison for years and years because a drunk woman that consented to sex last night changes her mind this morning.

 

I don't know what happened here.  None of us do.  But I do know there are (at least) 2 sides to every story.  And this wouldn't be the first foreign lady raped by a local, nor the first foreign lady who decided that sex last night wasn't a good idea- regardless of which is the case.

 

And I'll repeat my oft used statement that I should be able to walk around in public with $100 bills hanging out of my pocket, should be able to leave my car running while I'm inside shopping, and I should be able to leave my front and back doors open for a cross breeze while I'm sleeping.  But that's not the way the world works and I'd be an idiot to think it was.  It doesn't excuse the perpetrator.  But that's not being a victim.  That's being a volunteer. 

Brilliant post and sums this up well.

 

We all have certain responsibilities to ourselves for our own safety and well being. The problem is if a couple decide to have sex and the woman is either intoxicated or high on drugs or both, even if she consents, under mandatory law the guy is assumed to be a rapist. And not saying this is the case with the OP, but if later the woman cries rape so as to try and protect her own reputation or what has become known as slut shaming, the guy is literally done for, the odds are he`ll be found guilty of rape and unless well connected in Thailand can expect to serve a long prison term.

 

As regards the OP, how can anyone know for sure what actually occurred that night unless the guy confesses to the rape, especially considering the girl voluntary went off with the guy.

[HereIAm]

15 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Attitudes like that contribute to the problem.  It may be ordinary, and 99% of the time, it may end fine.  But it's foolish. 

 

Edit:  It completely ignores the fact that there are predators all over in the world, and those predators concentrate where they're likely to find prey.  And holiday destinations are the civilized equivalent of water holes on the savanna.  

 

Move on to what I said finally. That is no reason to find fault with her. When you accept it's ordinary and 99% of the time it ends well how could you blame the victim for that 1% chance of a mishap befalling her ? I would think I was foolish if I refused to enjoy Bangkok nights for fear of a 1% chance of a mishap. Then you should not fly, travel, cross the road, eat outside, etc etc. Given that the rare crime happened, and she was the victim, it's completely misplaced, uncivilised, nay brutish, to find fault with her for doing what everyone else does anyway. Surprising that there's so many on this forum. 

[Aussie999]

18 hours ago, lvr181 said:

DON'T believe everything you hear or read! Challenge assumptions unless someone comes up with the incontrovertible truth!

 

My apologies if I had not previously explained this simple concept to you. 

So it's ok to make up BS, just to feel good..... wow! 

Challenge "assumptions" yes but BS is still BS, and in this case degrading to the victim.

[Aussie999]

On 12/4/2018 at 8:14 AM, catman20 said:

lets wait for more facts about this case first before we start the sick dude crap. only saying

So, it's ok to spread BS, until more "facts" are know..... talk about sick.

[LukKrueng]

5 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Being raped sucks for sure, but so does being locked up in a Thai prison for years and years because a drunk woman that consented to sex last night changes her mind this morning.

 

I don't know what happened here.  None of us do.  But I do know there are (at least) 2 sides to every story.  And this wouldn't be the first foreign lady raped by a local, nor the first foreign lady who decided that sex last night wasn't a good idea- regardless of which is the case.

 

And I'll repeat my oft used statement that I should be able to walk around in public with $100 bills hanging out of my pocket, should be able to leave my car running while I'm inside shopping, and I should be able to leave my front and back doors open for a cross breeze while I'm sleeping.  But that's not the way the world works and I'd be an idiot to think it was.  It doesn't excuse the perpetrator.  But that's not being a victim.  That's being a volunteer. 

Did you actually read the OP?? 

Quote

The unnamed tourist, who was in shock and crying, was taken to file a rape complaint with police at Samranrat precinct at 3am on Saturday after she had fled the building and called for help from patrol police in the area of the nearby temple

 

[fruitman]

On 12/4/2018 at 7:43 AM, Emster23 said:

No means no regardless of when she (or he) says it. Consenting to sex is not like signing up for cell phone service in USA. So I think "sick" is valid diagnosis

No means nothing in Thailand.