NZ tourist sexually assualted near Grand Palace, police say

[BritManToo]

16 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

She was raped.

 

 

Not even she claims that.

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Not even she claims that.

Sex without consent is rape.

 

Alcohol consumption means consent cannot be given.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Sex without consent is rape.

Alcohol consumption means consent cannot be given.

 

She doesn't claim he had sex with her.

The title is 'sexually assaulted', the police proclaim 'intercourse did not take place'.

 

For all we know he only pinched her bum.

Not to mention 'informed consent' and 'continuous consent' are not legal requirements in Thailand.

Edited December 6, 2018 by BritManToo

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

She doesn't claim he had sex with her.

The title is 'sexually assaulted', the police proclaim 'intercourse did not take place'.

 

For all we know he only pinched her bum.

Not to mention 'informed consent' and 'continuous consent' are not legal requirements in Thailand.

From the OP

 

"The court Sunday approved an arrest warrant for Arnat Ukdee, 34, on the charge of rape"

Edited December 6, 2018 by Bluespunk

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

From the OP

"The court Sunday approved an arrest warrant for Arnat Ukdee, 34, on the charge of rape"

 

They also said ......

Bangkok police commander Sutthipong Wongpin told reporters Arnat “obscenely” fondled the victim, while a local police chief said there was no rape. “It didn’t escalate to rape,” Col. Kiat Kabbua, head of Samranrat Police Station, said by phone.

Edited December 6, 2018 by BritManToo

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

They also said ......

Bangkok police commander Sutthipong Wongpin told reporters Arnat “obscenely” fondled the victim, while a local police chief said there was no rape. “It didn’t escalate to rape,” Col. Kiat Kabbua, head of Samranrat Police Station, said by phone.

I’ll go with what this rapist filth has been charged with. 

[Bluespunk]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

They also said ......

Bangkok police commander Sutthipong Wongpin told reporters Arnat “obscenely” fondled the victim, while a local police chief said there was no rape. “It didn’t escalate to rape,” Col. Kiat Kabbua, head of Samranrat Police Station, said by phone.

 

Rapist scum

 

[mogandave]

I’ll go with what this rapist filth has been charged with. 

So why bother with a trial if you already know he’s a rapist?

Why not just kill him and be done with it?

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, mogandave said:

 

So why bother with a trial if you already know he’s a rapist?

Why not just kill him and be done with it?

 

I don't believe in the death penalty, but scum who rape would never leave gaol, until they expired, if I made the decisions.

 

However, I don't...

[mogandave]

I don't believe in the death penalty, but scum who rape would never leave gaol, until they expired, if I made the decisions.
 
However, I don't...

So why have a trial if he is rapist scum?

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

So why have a trial if he is rapist scum?

 

That is the way it works.

 

Put the scum on trial and gaol them.

[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

She doesn't claim he had sex with her.

The title is 'sexually assaulted', the police proclaim 'intercourse did not take place'.

 

For all we know he only pinched her bum.

Not to mention 'informed consent' and 'continuous consent' are not legal requirements in Thailand.

 

In Thai law, the mens rea is considered alone and he can be charged and found guilty of rape based only on mens rea, which is why he is being charged with rape dispite having not raped her, do you understand that?

Edited December 6, 2018 by Kieran00001

[wisperone]

I'm male, have been in BKK for a week. Have no intentions of visiting KSR,..and haven't had a drink since I've been here.  I realize I am in a foreign country and just choose to keep my wits about me so I am less inclined to become a target/victim. For women to go down there and get drunk...well it increases the chances of bad things happening. Don't always get second chances. 

Look what happened to that girl in Costa Rica last week. Victim due to bad choice.

[HereIAm]

The problem with most arguments here on this subject is they are splitting hair over semantics, arguing on the nitty gritty, arguing about specific facts of the case, all of which is  irrelevant. Broadly the issue, as I see it,  is does a woman have the right to get drunk and wander at 2.30 am on her own without getting raped ? Answer that for yourself and you know where you stand vis-a-vis women. If she wanders off with a stranger and is looking only for half-way house as far as sex is concerned, it's her right and it's not for the guy to force his  way. That's not right. That needs to be punished. 

[AGareth2]

50 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

In Thai law, the mens rea is considered alone and he can be charged and found guilty of rape based only on mens rea, which is why he is being charged with rape dispite having not raped her, do you understand that?

I think you should go back and re-edit

Mens rea alone?

[Kieran00001]

31 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

I think you should go back and re-edit

Mens rea alone?

 

Yes, mens rea alone.  In Thai law, if it can be proven that his intention was to rape then he can be convicted of rape, there does not have to be actus reus, an actual rape taken place, for it to be a rape charge, unlike in many Western countries.

[mogandave]

The problem with most arguments here on this subject is they are splitting hair over semantics, arguing on the nitty gritty, arguing about specific facts of the case, all of which is  irrelevant. Broadly the issue, as I see it,  is does a woman have the right to get drunk and wander at 2.30 am on her own without getting raped ? Answer that for yourself and you know where you stand vis-a-vis women. If she wanders off with a stranger and is looking only for half-way house as far as sex is concerned, it's her right and it's not for the guy to force his  way. That's not right. That needs to be punished. 

That should absolutely be punished, and I have not read anyone here that said she deserved to get raped, or that (assuming she was raped) that the perpetrator should not be punished.

What I do not understand it the faction that assume the suspect is guilty, or that it is not possible that the woman is lying, or that the woman just may not remember going along with it.

If the woman is lying and gets caught lying, nothing happens to her.

I’d the woman is lying and the suspect is convicted, his life is ruined.

[ChipButty]

29 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

That should absolutely be punished, and I have not read anyone here that said she deserved to get raped, or that (assuming she was raped) that the perpetrator should not be punished.

What I do not understand it the faction that assume the suspect is guilty, or that it is not possible that the woman is lying, or that the woman just may not remember going along with it.

If the woman is lying and gets caught lying, nothing happens to her.

I’d the woman is lying and the suspect is convicted, his life is ruined.
 

 

There was an Aussie girl who did get jail here in Phuket for falsely accusing some guy of rape that was a couple of years back now

[mogandave]

There was an Aussie girl who did get jail here in Phuket for falsely accusing some guy of rape that was a couple of years back now

What, 30 days suspended?

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

What I do not understand it the faction that assume the suspect is guilty, or that it is not possible that the woman is lying, or that the woman just may not remember going along with it.

'Believe Women' dude.

[cyberfarang]

5 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

 

Rapist scum

 

Just watched the video for the first time and this has convinced me the woman was sexually assaulted or raped.

 

She may not had been paralytic drunk but it`s obvious watching the video that the woman was dizzy and disorientated and the guy being an opportunist took advantage of her vulnerability, took her down the back of beyond in that alley somewhere and done the deed.

 

Yep, guilty as changed in this case.

[fullcave]

20 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Yea right. If the guy is found not guilty or let off due to lack of evidence, everyone will say the police are trying to cover it up concerned about this having a bad impact on the Thai tourist industry and if found guilty, everyone will say that all Thai males have the same traits and rape is a part of Thainess.

 

So really it`s no win situation whichever way this goes. 

Get off your pity pot and grow a set. The nationality/race of the perpetrator is of zero importance, if he's guilty he should face the consequences. In that case, it's a win for the victim. So, let's keep your racist views out of it and stick with the facts of the case, shall we? 

Edited December 6, 2018 by fullcave

[cyberfarang]

4 minutes ago, fullcave said:

Get off your pity pot and grow a set. The nationality/race of the perpetrator is of zero importance, if he's guilty he should face the consequences. In that case, it's a win for the victim. So, let's keep your racist views out of it and stick with the facts of the case, shall we? 

Yes Sir. Sorry sir.

[impulse]

22 hours ago, HereIAm said:

Move on to what I said finally. That is no reason to find fault with her. When you accept it's ordinary and 99% of the time it ends well how could you blame the victim for that 1% chance of a mishap befalling her ? I would think I was foolish if I refused to enjoy Bangkok nights for fear of a 1% chance of a mishap. Then you should not fly, travel, cross the road, eat outside, etc etc. Given that the rare crime happened, and she was the victim, it's completely misplaced, uncivilised, nay brutish, to find fault with her for doing what everyone else does anyway. Surprising that there's so many on this forum. 

 

I reject the notion that crime (including rape) is completely random and that we have no ability or responsibility to reduce the probability that it happens to us.  

 

Not everybody drinks to excess and leaves with a stranger at 2:30 in the morning.  That's not blaming her.  It's evaluating the lessons that may be learned from what she did, and how that worked out for her.  So others may avoid a similar fate.

 

Blaming her for the rape is, of course, misplaced.  But suggesting that other women should feel free to follow in her path because "everybody does it" and has every right to do it, is downright irresponsible.

Edited December 6, 2018 by impulse

[HereIAm]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I reject the notion that crime (including rape) is completely random and that we have no ability or responsibility to reduce the probability that it happens to us.  

 

Not everybody drinks to excess and leaves with a stranger at 2:30 in the morning.  That's not blaming her.  It's evaluating the lessons that may be learned from what she did, and how that worked out for her.  So others may avoid a similar fate.

 

Blaming her for the rape is, of course, misplaced.  But suggesting that other women should feel free to follow in her path because "everybody does it" and has every right to do it, is downright irresponsible.

Evaluating the lessons that may be leaned from what she did ? I'll tell you what : the lesson is that it's a man's world (bitter fact) and women pay a far far heavier price for  exercising their freedom to abandon themselves. It's this man's world that leads men to pontificate when women get into trouble for things like a bit of cathartic enjoyment. Yes sir, we can  certainly say that she was asking for trouble getting drunk and abandoning herself at 2.30 am on a lonely road. But that same would apply for anyone, man or woman. I wouldn't even bother to argue about that. But, that is  not the point. These 10 pages of arguments have arisen only because men were pontificating that a woman shouldn't have got drunk and wandered off alone at 2.30 am. We men can do that but .. a woman ? Followed by snide comments on her intent, character, upbringing, background, culture, etc etc. Blame the victim because she was wearing revealing clothes, smiled at you, was drunk besides, was hanging out even ..... none of which, men often don't realise, constitute an invitation to have sex.  As for your view that "suggesting that other women should feel free to follow in her path because "everybody does it" and has every right to do it, is downright irresponsible" that's founded on men's deficient character isn't it  ? Men need to be men, not a pack of hounds with tongues hanging out. Then it wouldn't be so "irresponsible" right ? 

[impulse]

1 hour ago, HereIAm said:

Evaluating the lessons that may be leaned from what she did ? I'll tell you what : the lesson is that it's a man's world (bitter fact) and women pay a far far heavier price for  exercising their freedom to abandon themselves. It's this man's world that leads men to pontificate when women get into trouble for things like a bit of cathartic enjoyment. Yes sir, we can  certainly say that she was asking for trouble getting drunk and abandoning herself at 2.30 am on a lonely road. But that same would apply for anyone, man or woman. I wouldn't even bother to argue about that. But, that is  not the point. These 10 pages of arguments have arisen only because men were pontificating that a woman shouldn't have got drunk and wandered off alone at 2.30 am. We men can do that but .. a woman ? Followed by snide comments on her intent, character, upbringing, background, culture, etc etc. Blame the victim because she was wearing revealing clothes, smiled at you, was drunk besides, was hanging out even ..... none of which, men often don't realise, constitute an invitation to have sex.  As for your view that "suggesting that other women should feel free to follow in her path because "everybody does it" and has every right to do it, is downright irresponsible" that's founded on men's deficient character isn't it  ? Men need to be men, not a pack of hounds with tongues hanging out. Then it wouldn't be so "irresponsible" right ? 

 

I live in the real world, where all of those nasty realities exist.  That's not going to change in my lifetime.  I don't defend any of it.  But neither do I believe that tourists on a lark are in any way immune to those unfortunate realities.

 

Thousands of female tourists did not get assaulted in Thailand that night.  I'm more interested in what they did differently that kept them out of harms way, than passing any moral judgment on what she did or did not do. 

 

Had she not been drinking, and not left the bar in the wee hours with a stranger, this thread wouldn't exist.  That doesn't mean she did anything immoral, or illegal.  But the results indicate that she didn't use good judgment. 

 

And, I'd contend that anyone traveling with her let her down.  That's a benefit of conversations like this.  It can be a lesson learned for those of us who occasionally travel with women.  Had a male (or female) friend walked her home at 2:30, this thread would also not exist.

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by impulse

[cyberfarang]

56 minutes ago, HereIAm said:

Evaluating the lessons that may be leaned from what she did ? I'll tell you what : the lesson is that it's a man's world (bitter fact) and women pay a far far heavier price for  exercising their freedom to abandon themselves. It's this man's world that leads men to pontificate when women get into trouble for things like a bit of cathartic enjoyment. Yes sir, we can  certainly say that she was asking for trouble getting drunk and abandoning herself at 2.30 am on a lonely road. But that same would apply for anyone, man or woman. I wouldn't even bother to argue about that. But, that is  not the point. These 10 pages of arguments have arisen only because men were pontificating that a woman shouldn't have got drunk and wandered off alone at 2.30 am. We men can do that but .. a woman ? Followed by snide comments on her intent, character, upbringing, background, culture, etc etc. Blame the victim because she was wearing revealing clothes, smiled at you, was drunk besides, was hanging out even ..... none of which, men often don't realise, constitute an invitation to have sex.  As for your view that "suggesting that other women should feel free to follow in her path because "everybody does it" and has every right to do it, is downright irresponsible" that's founded on men's deficient character isn't it  ? Men need to be men, not a pack of hounds with tongues hanging out. Then it wouldn't be so "irresponsible" right ? 

Here is something I was told by my grandfather many years ago that does relate to what you say it`s a man`s world.

 

If a father has a young son and the son puts it about a bit, the father will say; that`s my boy and will probably feel proud of his son, he`s proved himself a man the dad will say. But if a father has a daughter and she puts it about a bit, the father will probably feel disgusted with his daughter, accusing her of acting like a slut.

 

Why I asked my granddad? And he told me that it`s because in the act of sex, it involves a bodily internal function for the woman but not for the man and therefore why women that sleep around are considered unclean and why women that are sexually promiscuous are frowned upon and given bad reputations, plus women can fall pregnant whereas men can just walk away and it`s the women that maybe left with the burden.

 

Women have to be more vigilant in not letting themselves become vulnerable because they have a lot more at stake both physically and mentally.

 

So in this respect, yes, it is a man`s world as the consequences for women can be more serious. But that`s nature and just the way it is, that cannot be changed and why rape is such a terrible crime because for women it involves an internal bodily assault and why I believe proven rapists should receive no less than a life sentence. 

 

 

 

 

[mogandave]

Evaluating the lessons that may be leaned from what she did ? I'll tell you what : the lesson is that it's a man's world (bitter fact) and women pay a far far heavier price for  exercising their freedom to abandon themselves. It's this man's world that leads men to pontificate when women get into trouble for things like a bit of cathartic enjoyment. Yes sir, we can  certainly say that she was asking for trouble getting drunk and abandoning herself at 2.30 am on a lonely road. But that same would apply for anyone, man or woman. I wouldn't even bother to argue about that. But, that is  not the point. These 10 pages of arguments have arisen only because men were pontificating that a woman shouldn't have got drunk and wandered off alone at 2.30 am. We men can do that but .. a woman ? Followed by snide comments on her intent, character, upbringing, background, culture, etc etc. Blame the victim because she was wearing revealing clothes, smiled at you, was drunk besides, was hanging out even ..... none of which, men often don't realise, constitute an invitation to have sex.  As for your view that "suggesting that other women should feel free to follow in her path because "everybody does it" and has every right to do it, is downright irresponsible" that's founded on men's deficient character isn't it  ? Men need to be men, not a pack of hounds with tongues hanging out. Then it wouldn't be so "irresponsible" right ? 

I’ve followed the thread and I don’t recall anyone making snide comments about the woman’s intent, character, upbringing, background or culture. You just made all that up. Neither has anyone indicated that (assuming the woman was actually raped or assaulted) the suspect not be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

I don’t see much difference between a man or a woman drunk on the street at 2:30 in the morning, they’re both fools. That the woman is generally an easier target makes her a bigger fool.

What if she had been drunk sitting on the curb and rather than walking off with a stranger she had gotten her legs run over by a car making a right turn?

What if she had been drunk, wandering around at 2:30 in the morning and just gotten robbed?

What if she had drunk, wandering around at 2:30!in the morning and gotten on the back of a motorcycle with someone and subsequently fell off and broke her collarbone?

Would she not bear any responsibility at all?

I support the death penalty for forcible rape and would give the victim the opportunity to throw the switch if they want.

[catman20]

On 12/6/2018 at 5:52 AM, Aussie999 said:

So, it's ok to spread BS, until more "facts" are know..... talk about sick.

at the time of my post no one knew whether it was a change of mind on the woman side or if it really was a rape. who is spreading BS ?  Most people here were judge , jury and executioner.  

[BritManToo]

14 hours ago, HereIAm said:

Evaluating the lessons that may be leaned from what she did ? I'll tell you what : the lesson is that it's a man's world (bitter fact) and women pay a far far heavier price for  exercising their freedom to abandon themselves.

Wish you'd told my divorce judge that, I might not have been made homeless.