Thai Elite 20 vs 5 year, Thoughts?

[julot]

 

2 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

And one has to still get the extension to stay every year for the current 1900  baht price.  I believe that is in the fine print and often overlooked.   So one still has to deal with a one year extension just as other people do. 

1

That's not correct. Only if you plan to stay longer than 1 year on any entry. And I am pretty sure most people who can afford this visa are taking regular trips abroad. For the 20 years extension though, you must pay 1900THB for each of the 4 renewals. That's a small 0.76% extra cost.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

So one still has to deal with a one year extension just as other people do.

Of course, unlike with those on extensions of stay, this only applies if you never travel outside Thailand. Those who travel outside Thailand at least once a year will never need to apply for an extension of stay if they hold a TE visa. Further, there is no supporting documentation required for an extension of stay when on a TE visa. The presence of the visa in your passport if sufficient to qualify.

[gk10002000]

12 hours ago, julot said:

 

That's not correct. Only if you plan to stay longer than 1 year on any entry. And I am pretty sure most people who can afford this visa are taking regular trips abroad. For the 20 years extension though, you must pay 1900THB for each of the 4 renewals. That's a small 0.76% extra cost.

O if you stay longer than one year on any entry then you must obtain the extension.  Others seem to be disagreeing with that.

[kmw]

6 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

O if you stay longer than one year on any entry then you must obtain the extension.  Others seem to be disagreeing with that.

Yes and no, the PE staff extend this automatically, I'm pretty sure most people on the PE Visa travel abroad at least once per year, if not the yearly extension is provided, cost still being 1900 but no need to visit immigration, also same with the 90 day report, while legally a PE visa holder needs to do the 90day report, it's all taken care of automatically, I have a friend on the 5 year, and he advised it is great, no dealing with immigration is the most important aspect, he does not use all the bells and whistles, ie limo rides, golf, health, spas.

 

He does not even let them know when arriving as he just cuts in front of any immigration queue, generally not the premium lane, as what ever is closer, shows his elite card and hes through, 

Edited December 13, 2018 by kmw

[Mike Teavee]

4 hours ago, kmw said:

Yes and no, the PE staff extend this automatically, I'm pretty sure most people on the PE Visa travel abroad at least once per year, if not the yearly extension is provided, cost still being 1900 but no need to visit immigration, also same with the 90 day report, while legally a PE visa holder needs to do the 90day report, it's all taken care of automatically, I have a friend on the 5 year, and he advised it is great, no dealing with immigration is the most important aspect, he does not use all the bells and whistles, ie limo rides, golf, health, spas.

 

He does not even let them know when arriving as he just cuts in front of any immigration queue, generally not the premium lane, as what ever is closer, shows his elite card and hes through, 

PE do not extend your permission to stay automatically.

 

When you enter Thailand you will be "Stamped In" for 1 year, if you're still in Thailand when your permission to stay is getting close to expiring, you need to either contact them so they can extend it for you or contact Immigration & extend it yourself, if you're sat on a beach 1 day after your 1 year permission to stay expires, you're on overstay, even if there's 4 years remaining on your visa & you have another 15 years on top of that left on your PE.

 

There's a thread on here from a guy who thought 5 years meant 5 years, ended up overstaying by > 90 days and was blacklisted for 1 year.

 

 

Key date to always keep in mind is the "Permission to stay until". 

 

 

[galt67]

On 12/13/2018 at 7:45 AM, gk10002000 said:

Yes 90 day reporting still has to be done, but Elite Visa says they will handle that for you if you live in certain cities, Bangkok, Chiang Mai, maybe Pattaya also.  And one has to still get the extension to stay every year for the current 1900  baht price.  I believe that is in the fine print and often overlooked.   So one still has to deal with a one year extension just as other people do. 

Regarding 90-day reporting, TE will do it (free of charge) by dropping off your passport at their designated visa agents.

 

The service is available in Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Pattaya, Phuket.

 

It works flawlessly from my experience.

[kmw]

8 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

PE do not extend your permission to stay automatically.

 

When you enter Thailand you will be "Stamped In" for 1 year, if you're still in Thailand when your permission to stay is getting close to expiring, you need to either contact them so they can extend it for you or contact Immigration & extend it yourself, if you're sat on a beach 1 day after your 1 year permission to stay expires, you're on overstay, even if there's 4 years remaining on your visa & you have another 15 years on top of that left on your PE.

 

There's a thread on here from a guy who thought 5 years meant 5 years, ended up overstaying by > 90 days and was blacklisted for 1 year.

 

 

Key date to always keep in mind is the "Permission to stay until". 

 

 

Yes that's correct, my bad English, what I was trying to state that generally they do everything for you, except the need for the yearly extension, 

 

I'm seriously looking at the 5 year option as I've been on I think now 6 metv back to back along with a 2 x 90 medical extensions, my immigration history probably looks terrible when the io see it in the computer, however I only get grilled at bkk airport, immigration being into bkk itself, never an issue immigration desk for transfer onto chiang mai, phuket etc, 

[Noob81]

On 12/10/2018 at 10:23 AM, JayBird said:

Banks... are happy when they see a 5 year visa in your passport
 

They are not, only WP works 100% these days. Opening a bank account with mickey mouse ED visa is a lot easier in fact, even Bangkok Bank which is an official partner of TE will give you grief if you just walk in (TE concierge should contact the bank first and arrange an appointment) - I was told my visa was fake as there was no PE type visas mentioned in their manuals

[MehrK]

Just an update all, I went ahead with the 20 year Superiority Extension for 1m baht.

App submitted and approved, payment just went through right now and waiting for finance dept. to approve receipt.

 

I'd like to thank everyone for taking the time to respond and helping me think through some things to arrive at my decision.

 

I guess I'll be around for a while ???? Cheers 

Edited December 14, 2018 by MehrK

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, MehrK said:

I guess I'll be around for a while ???? Cheers 

Wishing you a long and pleasant stay.

[kmw]

3 hours ago, Noob81 said:

They are not, only WP works 100% these days. Opening a bank account with mickey mouse ED visa is a lot easier in fact, even Bangkok Bank which is an official partner of TE will give you grief if you just walk in (TE concierge should contact the bank first and arrange an appointment) - I was told my visa was fake as there was no PE type visas mentioned in their manuals

Yes from what I know the PE Visa is not well recognized with the banks, hence the reason thai elite do the booking and send a representative to help opening an account, the friend of mine who has the 5 years sometimes has issues with immigration, as sometimes the io just stamps the 30 day exempt,(aus passport) he said it's not usually an issue as hes out of Thailand usually before then, but he has to tell the io and say "elite" in order to get the yearly stamp, 

[steve73]

I'm hearing of more and more instances where the airport I/O stamps a 30 date PtS, for any types of visa..  Just a few days ago, a friend of mine with a Non-O-A, noticed his most recent entry in Oct was only stamped for 30 days - now obviously "expired" so technically on "overstay".  His local I/O told him he needed to return to the arriving airport (DM) to get it rectified there...  I thought any I/O could "repair" an incorrect stamp, and a return to DM is pretty inconvenient for him....

 

It always pays to check it at the counter before you leave...  and that will apply to the Elite as well..  

[MehrK]

18 hours ago, kmw said:

Yes from what I know the PE Visa is not well recognized with the banks, hence the reason thai elite do the booking and send a representative to help opening an account, the friend of mine who has the 5 years sometimes has issues with immigration, as sometimes the io just stamps the 30 day exempt,(aus passport) he said it's not usually an issue as hes out of Thailand usually before then, but he has to tell the io and say "elite" in order to get the yearly stamp, 

 

1 hour ago, steve73 said:

I'm hearing of more and more instances where the airport I/O stamps a 30 date PtS, for any types of visa..  Just a few days ago, a friend of mine with a Non-O-A, noticed his most recent entry in Oct was only stamped for 30 days - now obviously "expired" so technically on "overstay".  His local I/O told him he needed to return to the arriving airport (DM) to get it rectified there...  I thought any I/O could "repair" an incorrect stamp, and a return to DM is pretty inconvenient for him....

 

It always pays to check it at the counter before you leave...  and that will apply to the Elite as well..  

Very good thing to be mindful of, you two. Thanks for sharing. I would HATE to have to go back to try and get a stamp fixed, very inconvenient. 

 

Regarding the bank account. The service to have a representative come help open it, should be free. Definitely will be having them help with that. I can't expect every employee and bank to know about the program and instantly bend what they think are their rules for me. However, the Thai Elite member team probably has branches they deal with that are already hip to the program/process, making it a breeze.

 

We'll see.

[Webinfo]

At 34 or older this would IMO be the best thing to do. 

 

Get a 5 year elite visa, fly in on the day it expires for another 1 year giving you 6 years.

You could even do a tourist visa in your home country for 9 months before this if you are 33. 

When the 5 year expires expires get another 10 year elite visa for 800k. 

 

That's 1.3m baht for 16 years, after which you can get a retirement visa. 

 

The advantage of doing this is you get 800k of opportunity cash to invest for a further 6 years + flexibility which has a value or incase things don't workout. 

The downside is it's 300k more expensive.

 

If you think you can make 300k at a minimum of 800k accounting for inflation in 6  years then it's the best option. 

 

 

[observer90210]

I may would have.....may would have considerd putting perhaps 500'000 THB (and not a penny more)....... but only for a visa that is valid for  lifetime, that does not require a single extra visit to the corrupt immigration offices, transferable if change of passport, automatically also enables a 5 year Thai driving licence, not requiring the 90 day reporting or re-entry permit, unlimited access to arrival/departure fastrack and VIP lounges at the Thai airports..........in other words, a visa that shows a bit of respect that is deserved to all the (decent) retiree foreigners living in Thailand who contribute substantially,  but are often treated as 2nd 3rd class citizens.

 

Happy New Year !

Edited December 30, 2018 by observer90210

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Webinfo said:

At 34 or older this would IMO be the best thing to do. 

 

Get a 5 year elite visa, fly in on the day it expires for another 1 year giving you 6 years.

You could even do a tourist visa in your home country for 9 months before this if you are 33. 

When the 5 year expires expires get another 10 year elite visa for 800k. 

 

That's 1.3m baht for 16 years, after which you can get a retirement visa. 

 

The advantage of doing this is you get 800k of opportunity cash to invest for a further 6 years + flexibility which has a value or incase things don't workout. 

The downside is it's 300k more expensive.

 

If you think you can make 300k at a minimum of 800k accounting for inflation in 6  years then it's the best option. 

That is certainly a reasonable approach, but does involve an assumption that some might not want to make. It assumes that the 800,000 baht for ten years option will still exist six years from now. It should be noted that the original 1,000,000 baht transferable, lifetime option was withdrawn several years ago, so there is ample reason to worry if you would be relying on the ten year membership.

Edited December 30, 2018 by BritTim

[Terek]

I've got 5 years because money now is more valuable for me, let it be 2 times more expensive, but my investment gains are more, also 5 years visa have limo service, so it depends on individual circumstances which visa is better

[Ks45672]

3 hours ago, Terek said:

I've got 5 years because money now is more valuable for me, let it be 2 times more expensive, but my investment gains are more, also 5 years visa have limo service, so it depends on individual circumstances which visa is better

They all have limo service iirc 

5,10,20yr

[Terek]

14 hours ago, Ks45672 said:

They all have limo service iirc 

5,10,20yr

 

20 years for 1 million doesn't have

[djlest]

Are you sure?

its still online if you follow this link...

https://www.thailandelite.com/at-your-service/card/elite-superiority-extension-membership?locate=en

 

 

[Dmitry2222]

Probably, visas for 10 and 20 years are not reasonable. Because Thailand changes its immigration policy very often. It can turn into a headache.

[ThomasThBKK]

3 hours ago, Dmitry2222 said:

Probably, visas for 10 and 20 years are not reasonable. Because Thailand changes its immigration policy very often. It can turn into a headache.

So far they didn't invalidate old existing visas.

 

Old thai elite lifetime visas are still working, so are the 3m baht investment visas, all officially stopped many years ago.

 

i would argue it's prolly better to get something long term as you don't know if they still exist in 5 years

[Dmitry2222]

39 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Old thai elite lifetime visas are still working, so are the 3m baht investment visas, all officially stopped many years ago.

There is the topic where owner of the investment visa said that immigration stuff requested yearly bank statement while extending permission of stay. However first few years everythink was ok. So, one day owner of the elite visa can faced with the similar requirement.

 

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, Dmitry2222 said:

There is the topic where owner of the investment visa said that immigration stuff requested yearly bank statement while extending permission of stay. However first few years everythink was ok. So, one day owner of the elite visa can faced with the similar requirement.

 

 

Those are only 1 year visas tho, elite is 5 year at times. yearly bank statements aren't an issue i guess for most people if thats all they ask for...and he got the visa in the end.

 

I only know i wish i bought the lifetime elite visa as the current ones are way worse... 

[dbrenn]

On 12/8/2018 at 12:33 AM, MehrK said:

It seems there is better value in the long run with the 20 year, though it's more cash up front. We all know cash now is worth more than cash later.. haha.

 

I've always followed a simple rule on visas: Always apply for the longest one that you can get, even if you think you don't need it now.

 

Over time, the price of visas goes up faster than inflation, and (more importantly) rule changes very often close doors before you know it.

 

Edited March 30, 2019 by dbrenn

[donnacha]

1 hour ago, dbrenn said:

I've always followed a simple rule on visas: Always apply for the longest one that you can get, even if you think you don't need it now.

 

Over time, the price of visas goes up faster than inflation, and (more importantly) rule changes very often close doors before you know it.

 

That is a good strategy when dealing with regular visas at regular prices, where the cost is rarely more than you would otherwise have to spend on flights out and back into a country, but the Elite visa is a considerably larger investment. It is worth, at the very least, considering the ways in which a worsening situation in Thailand could make it a bad investment or, also possible, an improving situation could make it an unnecessary investment.

Despite the name, the 20-year Elite Visa is not an actual visa, it is a commitment by the current government to give you a series of five-year visas that allow you to remain in Thailand for up to one year at a time.

In recent decades, as far as I know, no Thai government has reneged on such a commitment by a previous government, but that does not mean it will not happen or, as the current anti-Western trend accelerates, that additional strictures might not be placed upon the scheme, such as needing to buy Thai medical insurance.

Also, as with any visa, any Immigration Officer has the discretion to refuse you entry, for any reason. Again, I have not heard of this happening yet but there is no technical reason why it could not start happening a lot if a future government started regretting the scheme.

If, on the other hand, a future elected government has financially literate leadership, or is simply more responsive to the needs of the poorer sections of society most affected by the loss of Western tourism, it is not a wild stretch to guess that we might see the return of the simple six-month tourist visas or, even, a six-month visa waiver period. Any such move would likely be accompanied by a return to the more liberal attitudes towards back-to-back visa runs.

I am willing to pay for convenience, and I like Thailand, but growing misgivings about the direction of the government, cost-of-living, and exchange rates give me pause. In the wake of this election, I also consider the risk of widespread, prolonged civil unrest to be non-trivial. In short, paying a huge amount upfront for 5 or 20 years strikes me as a poor bet.

[dbrenn]

15 minutes ago, donnacha said:

paying a huge amount upfront for 5 or 20 years strikes me as a poor bet.

Perception of value depends entirely upon how much money you've got to spare, and how highly you regard the convenience of unfettered access to Thailand.

 

Unless there were a communist/ fascist style of revolution, or some other political earthquake in which all foreigners were kicked out, I think it's very unlikely that the government would renege on those who've already bought into Thai Elite. Money will always be welcome here, but the bar you've got to jump over will only move upwards.

 

It's ironic how so many TV members were cheering on the yellow lot before the coup - ultra conservatives are known for taking a tough line on immigration, all the more reason to get the longest Visa you can before they raise the bar further.

Edited March 31, 2019 by dbrenn

[LongTang]

Be advised that if you ever had more then one overstay you will not be able to receive the elite visa even if you paid the 1 million bath.

 

I wonder what will happened if someone who got the 5years PE before this new regulation came into effect and now wants to buy the 20years visa but had overstayed more then once ever before.

 

Personally i find this fact very disturbing in the prospect of the next 20years as you never know what new regulation might turn you retroactively to an undesired personality.. (not reporting on time in various circumstances seems like the next candidate if you ask me). ????

 

[donnacha]

39 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Perception of value depends entirely upon how much money you've got to spare.

Sure, but while I agree with the general rule you suggested - "Always apply for the longest one that you can get, even if you think you don't need it now" - with regard to regular visas, the jump between $100 and $16,000 for the Elite visa is a meaningful difference for all but the richest guys. Plenty of multi-millionaires fly Business rather than First class because, even for us, the money still means something.
 

 

39 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Unless there were a communist/ fascist style of revolution, or some other political earthquake

We are almost certainly in for rough times ahead. It does not need to be a full-scale revolution for the situation to become precarious for foreigners. Given the skill and professionalism of current policing, it would not take much for a temporary breakdown of law and order to occur. I do not foresee widespread targeting of foreigners, but any risk will be enough to encourage most of us to skip town for a while.

 

39 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

I think it's very unlikely that the government would renege on those who've already bought into Thai Elite.

 

Unlikely, but not a zero risk. Things change quickly here, and governments without a proper mandate have proven themselves more than willing to use foreigners as scapegoats. Combine that with changes in the cost-of-living, exchange rates and general shifts in attitudes towards Westerners, it is enough to question the wisdom of paying so much in advance.

 

39 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

but the bar you've got to jump over will only move upwards.

 

As an absolute statement, that is wrong.

Rules have repeatedly changed in both directions over the past three decades. Periods in which new rules have damaged the tourist industry (such as now) have often provoked campaigns in the other direction, such as the free tourist visas they offered a couple of years ago.

We have also seen, over the past few years, neighboring countries boosting their tourism by dropping visa requirements, which is likely to (eventually) provoke a response from a Thai government.

So, yes, these things cycle in both directions. As you say, they like money, reviving the tourist industry will be low-hanging fruit for a future elected government. Or you could be right and things will just keep getting worse, but I don't consider the risk of that to be sufficient to justify the cost of the Elite visa.
 

Edited March 31, 2019 by donnacha

[donnacha]

22 minutes ago, LongTang said:

Personally i find this fact very disturbing in the prospect of the next 20years as you never know what new regulation might turn you retroactively to an undesired personality.. (not reporting on time in various circumstances seems like the next candidate if you ask me).

Yeah, there was a report here just a week or so ago, a new Elite visa holder didn't understand that he had to leave the country at least once a year and accidentally overstayed by a few months. I forget the exact punishment but I think the resulting ban from Thailand was longer than the remainder of his Elite visa. His Elite status got him no breaks at all.

Edited March 31, 2019 by donnacha