U.S. Democrats manoeuvre to end shutdown, without Trump wall money

[webfact]

U.S. Democrats manoeuvre to end shutdown, without Trump wall money

By David Morgan

 

FILE PHOTO: A sign declares the National Archive is closed due to a partial federal government shutdown in Washington, U.S., December 22, 2018. REUTERS/Joshua Roberts/File Photo

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrats in the House of Representatives are planning a vote on Thursday on a funding package to end the 10-day-old partial U.S. government shutdown without providing the $5 billion (3.92 billion pounds) President Donald Trump has demanded for a U.S.-Mexico border wall.

 

The planned vote sets up a Democratic showdown with Trump's fellow Republicans on an issue dear to the president on the first day of divided government in Washington since he took office in January 2017 with a Congress led by his own party. Democrats formally take control of the House from the Republicans on Thursday after winning a majority of seats in November's congressional elections.

 

The two-part Democratic package filed on Monday in the House included a bill to keep funding for the Department of Homeland Security at current levels through Feb. 8 with $1.3 billion for border security, as well as a bundle of six measures to fund other shuttered agencies through the Sept. 30 end of the current fiscal year. The two parts will be voted on separately on the House floor on Thursday, Democrats on the House Appropriations Committee said.

 

If approved in the House, the government funding package would go to the Republican-led Senate. Its Senate prospects appear unpromising, although Trump's unpredictability makes it hard to gauge how the shutdown showdown will play out.

 

The Democratic legislation will mark the first major battle pitting the incoming Democratic House majority led by Nancy Pelosi against Trump and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

 

“While President Trump drags the nation into Week Two of the Trump Shutdown and sits in the White House and tweets, without offering any plan that can pass both chambers of Congress, Democrats are taking action to lead our country out of this mess," Pelosi and top Senate Democrat Chuck Schumer said in a joint statement.

 

A spokesman for McConnell, Don Stewart, said: "It's simple: The Senate is not going to send something to the president that he won't sign."

 

Democrats oppose Trump's demand for wall funding, with Pelosi calling the wall immoral, ineffective and expensive.

 

Democrats expect their two-pronged funding approach could put Trump and his Republican allies in a tough position. If they reject funding bills for departments unconnected to border security, Republicans could be seen as holding those agencies and their roughly 800,000 affected workers hostage to Trump's wall demand. Those include the Departments of Agriculture, Interior, Transportation, Commerce and Justice.

 

The homeland security piece of the package is based on a measure that has already passed the Senate with bipartisan support.

 

The shutdown, which began on Dec. 22 and has idled roughly a quarter of the federal government, was precipitated by Trump's demand, under pressure from conservative commentators, that Congress approve $5 billion to help fund a wall that was a promise made in his 2016 election campaign, although he said at the time it would be paid for by Mexico.

 

Trump has called the wall crucial to combating illegal immigration and drug trafficking. The Senate on Dec. 21 failed to muster the votes needed to pass Republican-backed House legislation that included Trump's wall funding.

 

'NOT A WALL'

A central issue in finding a resolution could be the definition of what constitutes a wall, including the idea of steel slats and other types of barriers versus a concrete structure.

 

Trump on Twitter criticized Democratic opposition to the wall project, which carries a total estimated price tag of $23 billion. He also seemed to contradict comments made by outgoing White House Chief of Staff John Kelly.

 

In a Los Angeles Times interview published on Sunday, Kelly said: "To be honest, it's not a wall."

 

"The president still says 'wall' - oftentimes frankly he'll say 'barrier' or 'fencing,' now he's tended towards steel slats. But we left a solid concrete wall early on in the administration, when we asked people what they needed and where they needed it," Kelly added.

 

Trump wrote on Twitter that border security could not exist "without a strong and powerful Wall."

 

"An all concrete Wall was NEVER ABANDONED, as has been reported by the media," Trump wrote. "Some areas will be all concrete but the experts at Border Patrol prefer a Wall that is see through (thereby making it possible to see what is happening on both sides). Makes sense to me!"

 

Trump, who cancelled his vacation in Florida and has stayed at the White House during the holiday government shutdown, said Democrats could have come over for talks anytime.

 

"I'm in Washington. I'm ready, willing and able," Trump told Fox News.

 

White House officials did not reply to an email asking whether the president had been in touch directly with Democratic leaders to set up a round of talks.

 

Pelosi has not heard formally from the White House since Dec. 11, when she and Schumer had a contentious Oval Office meeting with the president, Democratic aides said. Schumer has not heard from the White House since he met with Vice President Mike Pence and incoming White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney on Dec. 22, Democratic aides said.

 

(Reporting by David Morgan; Additional reporting by Jeff Mason; Writing by Will Dunham; Editing by Kevin Drawbaugh, Grant McCool and Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-01-01

[neeray]

Happy New Year Donald.

 

SSDD

Edited December 31, 2018 by neeray
addendum

[Chomper Higgot]

Not problem, Mexico is paying for the wall.

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

A spokesman for McConnell, Don Stewart, said: "It's simple: The Senate is not going to send something to the president that he won't sign."

If the Republican senators were concerned about a continued shutdown, THEY can with Democrat support veto-proof a continuing resolution for a 2-3 month budget for the security and welfare of the nation. THEY can with Democrat support pass the six "mini-budgets" covering government departments through the entire fiscal year with the exception of the Department of Homeland Security.

That they chose not to do so without irrevocable approval from Trump simply means the Republican senators are incapable of being a check and balance against a presidential abuse of power.

The longer the shutdown continues, the greater senatorial seats up for election in 2020 will be vulnerable to Democrat takeover. And possibly the POTUS itself.

[IAMHERE]

Got to love the idea; let's borrow more money on behalf of the American Tax payer. 

[keith101]

2 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

Got to love the idea; let's borrow more money on behalf of the American Tax payer. 

Why when he said that Mexico is going to pay for the wall LOL

[TonyClifton]

Trump wants a wall.  We the Citizens of the United States of America want a wall.  The Democrats are just going to throw temper-tantrums until they have to give in.  

 

When Obama removes the wall around his house in DC then the Demorats can negotiate something different.

 

Good luck with that.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, TonyClifton said:

Trump wants a wall.  We the Citizens of the United States of America want a wall.  The Democrats are just going to throw temper-tantrums until they have to give in.  

 

When Obama removes the wall around his house in DC then the Demorats can negotiate something different.

 

Good luck with that.

"We the Citizens of the United States of America want a wall. "

Huh?

[TonyClifton]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Huh?

Grunt.  Grumble.  Mumble ..... Build the wall.  

[Credo]

8 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

Trump wants a wall.  We the Citizens of the United States of America want a wall.  The Democrats are just going to throw temper-tantrums until they have to give in.  

 

When Obama removes the wall around his house in DC then the Demorats can negotiate something different.

 

Good luck with that.

Obama doesn't have a wall around his house.   Typical Trump lie:

 

Neighbors say there's no 10-foot wall outside Obama's house

Neighbors of former President Obama and former first lady Michelle Obama have disputed President Trump's recent claim that a 10-foot wall stands around the Obama home in Washington, D.C.

Two neighbors in remarks to The Washington Post disputed Trump's characterization.

 

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/423344-neighbors-say-there-is-not-a-10-foot-wall-outside-obamas-house?fbclid=IwAR3_PgZZ7D3awLxawI3nbMbIpvZUUqrAyY_Wqj8GbjShP-WSX1T_5_BeUgM

 

Oh, and no, 'we the people' do not want a wall.   

[TonyClifton]

1 minute ago, Credo said:

Oh, and no, 'we the people' do not want a wall.   

 

Tear down this wall Mr. Trump (Gorbachov)! 

 

What do you want?  A turnstile?

[samran]

1 hour ago, TonyClifton said:

Trump wants a wall.  We the Citizens of the United States of America want a wall.  The Democrats are just going to throw temper-tantrums until they have to give in.  

 

When Obama removes the wall around his house in DC then the Demorats can negotiate something different.

 

Good luck with that.

Presumably the people who voted for Democrats don’t want the wall and expect their congressional representatives to vote as such. Or does democracy mean nothing to you? 

 

I mean, The Donald had 2 years and control of both houses and couldn’t figure it out, so it is a bit rich blaming it on Democrats now. 

Edited January 1, 2019 by samran

[Becker]

1 hour ago, TonyClifton said:

Tear down this wall Mr. Trump (Gorbachov)! 

 

What do you want?  A turnstile?

Sober posters would be a good start.

[TonyClifton]

4 minutes ago, samran said:

Or does democracy mean nothing to you? 

I despise democracy. We, the United States of America are not part of a democracy.  If you don't know this fact, then perhaps you should dust off your civics books, assuming you were ever taught civics in the first place.

 

We are a constitutional republic.

 

 

[samran]

2 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

I despise democracy. We, the United States of America are not part of a democracy.  If you don't know this fact, then perhaps you should dust off your civics books, assuming you were ever taught civics in the first place.

 

We are a constitutional republic.

 

 

I might not be a constitutional expert, but I can count.

 

The President isn’t an absolute monarch. The Democats have the numbers and the right to vote how they want. Donnie isn’t their leader.

 

this is your republican form of government working as it always has ..

 

 

[billd766]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Not problem, Mexico is paying for the wall.

Aye, and my name is Oberon, King of the Fairies. 

[Spike1938]

1 hour ago, TonyClifton said:

Trump wants a wall.  We the Citizens of the United States of America want a wall.  The Democrats are just going to throw temper-tantrums until they have to give in.  

 

When Obama removes the wall around his house in DC then the Demorats can negotiate something different.

 

Good luck with that.

Polling has shown that most American's do not support a wall at all let alone one that Mexico will not pay for. Obama's wall (a fence around private property) and a wall along a national border is an apples and oranges argument.

[TonyClifton]

1 minute ago, Spike1938 said:

Polling has shown that most American's do not support a wall at all let alone one that Mexico will not pay for. Obama's wall (a fence around private property) and a wall along a national border is an apples and oranges argument.

Funny how you mention polling, but no reference to an actual poll.  

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

Funny how you mention polling, but no reference to an actual poll.  

Denial much?

[TonyClifton]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Denial much?

I deny that the poster quoted an actual poll.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, TonyClifton said:

I deny that the poster quoted an actual poll.

Your google isn't working? Such polls have been cited here before numerous times. 

[TonyClifton]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Your google isn't working? Such polls have been cited here before numerous times. 

The sound of backpedaling drowned your message in a wash of confusion.  Cite the source, or shut up.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

The sound of backpedaling drowned your message in a wash of confusion.  Cite the source, or shut up.

Not your Googlebot.

[mikebike]

41 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

We are a constitutional republic.

Which, of course, is one way of organizing a democracy. A parliamentary monarchy would be another.

[stevenl]

33 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

Funny how you mention polling, but no reference to an actual poll.  

Strange, coming from the person who claimed 'Americans want a wall'.

[Basil B]

38 minutes ago, Becker said:

Sober posters would be a good start.

Not so much sobriety but those of the real world would be better. 

 

When posters say things like "we the citizens of America want a wall" as if every American wanted the wall obviously does not live in the real world. (Google "american poll on the wall") 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Basil B said:

Not so much sobriety but those of the real world would be better. 

 

When posters say things like "we the citizens of America want a wall" as if every American wanted the wall obviously does not live in the real world. (Google "american poll on the wall") 

Exactomundo

 

[attrayant]

Polling data on the border wall:

 

http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm

 

Results are almost universally in the 30s (in favor of the wall), and when the cost is mentioned as part of the polling question, it drops into the low 30s.

 

That's Trump's base, which is almost certainly less than 20% of all voters.

[bkkcanuck8]

There are border tunnels which go undetected along the US/Mexico border, there are major rivers, rough terrain, transit via water. Simply put in a world where travel is easier than in the past, where there is an economic draw to lure and an unstable and in many case unsafe country that you are coming with - you will always have a large number of people willing to make an attempt.

Some interesting facts, most people that were/are illegal in the US -- entered legally and overstayed. In the most recent year, Canada is the worst offender as far as overstaying in the US (more than twice as many as Mexico). For people that cannot legally enter the United States, or are turned away from initial entry, they can always get transit into the US -- and most illegal smuggling is done through major ports.

Simply put, a 'wall' is a purely political thing with little practicality. It is wall stretching along the border would cost probably on the order of 100 billion (not 5 billion). That wall would only be trying to solve a small portion of the problem -- since it is not where most of the problem is. What would be more effective, well making hiring non-legal people but that would require a more invasive immigration where the US government knows who every non-US citizen is in the US at all times (Thailand does that and they still have a major 'illegals problem'). You will have to have a national ID system where every time a person is hired or paid for any work you have to present the national ID and check to make sure they are legal. Then penalize severely anyone hiring an illegal worker. This check would have to be done each time a contractor is hired by individuals -- right up to large corporations. Take away the economic attraction and you will lessen the problem. The country has to make sacrifices in freedom to accomplish this... and once it does the economy will be hit since the dirty little secret is that a lot of some types of employment are done by foreigners... because of many reasons (can be money, can be that people feel better than that that they would rather not work at the job and be unemployed rather than take 'demeaning' work).

Things have changed -- in the past people just walked across their own farm land or their neighbours and went shopping in the other country and 'snuck' back with the border patrol literally turning a blind eye or giving a warning -- but things have changed -- and not for the better (my mother use to walk into the US across the family farm into the US).

A real wall is environmentally damaging and not getting to the root of the problem in a large way. More monitoring would help, but given that drugs were very illegal and typically more than 50% of Americans and Canadians had tried it when it was very illegal. When the taxes on alcohol went up in Ontario over 33% of the establishments sold smuggled alcohol. If there is an economic draw to it - there will always be someone to fill in the gap. Some of Canada's richest families got that way because of smuggling during prohibition times. So .. yes build about 120 miles of walls for 5 billion and there will be another way whether it is over, under through tunnels -- around or just fly in. It might raise the cost a little, but it can always be offset since the smugglers are always looking for desperate people to hire to help.

[bkkcanuck8]

The dirty little secret is in reality BOTH parties turn the blind eye to illegal immigration.  There is a demand for migrant labor -- and a real immigration solution of filling that demand through a legal system (which would cut illegal immigration) is politically dangerous - so both parties tend to turn a blind eye... while at the same time they pretend to want to fix it (in various ways).