Equal marriage rights 'still a dream' in Thailand

[webfact]

Equal marriage rights 'still a dream'

By PRATCH RUJIVANAROM 
THE NATION

 

File photo // AFP PHOTO

 

IT IS NOT A 100 per cent certain that the Life Partnership Bill will become law this year and even if it does pass the legislation process and is finally enforced, there is no guarantee that it will give equal marriage rights for same-sex couples.
 

The dream of gender diverse people in Thailand to marry their loved ones and get the same benefits and rights as straight couples is still far from becoming reality, even though the Cabinet had on Christmas Day announced that it would recognise legal partnership between same-sex persons.

 

Natakamon Siwasilp, legal adviser to the Togetherness for Equality and Action (TEA) Group, said that even though the government had agreed to recognise same-sex marriage, LGBTQI couples will not get the same rights as their heterosexual counterparts. Also, this law itself is problematic, she said. 

 

“The biggest problem with this bill is its vagueness. As we can see in the latest draft, the drafters of this law do not truly understand marriage equality. Also, the draft itself is problematic as some articles are duplicated and the language is unclear,” Natakamon said.

 

“Some articles are written as if to say, ‘hey, we have already complied with your demands’, by listing the rights that we are entitled to. But the language of this bill does not guarantee that the rights mentioned in the list will be implemented in reality.” 

 

As of now, the National Legislative Assembly (NLA) is set to consider and revise each article of the bill. However, she warned this bill will not enter the legislative process easily due to its poorly written language and ambiguity. 

 

“Owing to these problems, we truly don’t know when this bill will finally be approved or what it will look like after it is passed. We don’t know what marriage rights we will have,” she said. “So, we would like to urge the government to be clear in its policy on same-sex marriage. We want them to clear the ambiguity.” 

 

She also said the government’s proclamation that this bill has already passed Cabinet consideration can mislead the public, as not everybody has an understanding of the law-making process, nor do they realise that the Cabinet has only approved specific principles of this bill, not every detail of it. 

 

“News that the government has approved the Life Partnership Bill will make people think that members of the LGBTQI group have the same rights as straight couples,” she said. 

 

“The next time activists come out to campaign for equal rights, many people will argue that the government has already granted us these rights in the Life Partnership Bill.”

 

Meanwhile, NLA member Panu Uthairat disclosed to The Nation that the Life Partnership Bill has not been submitted to the NLA for consideration yet. “I want to assure you that no such bill has been passed on to NLA, so our Muslim and Christian friends can be relieved.”

 

He added that issue of same-sex marriage is still very controversial, so the Life Partnership Bill should be considered cautiously. 

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30361448

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2019-01-02

[Bluespunk]

52 minutes ago, webfact said:

Meanwhile, NLA member Panu Uthairat disclosed to The Nation that the Life Partnership Bill has not been submitted to the NLA for consideration yet. “I want to assure you that no such bill has been passed on to NLA, so our Muslim and Christian friends can be relieved.”

 

He added that issue of same-sex marriage is still very controversial, so the Life Partnership Bill should be considered cautiously. 

“the church should just stay out of people's pants.”

 

Alex Sanchez, The God Box

[mikebell]

There's no equality in a Thai/Thai marriage - the man rules the roost; there's no equality in a Thai/farang marriage - the woman takes him to the cleaners.

[Puchaiyank]

Men control Thai laws which are designed to protect men who leave their wives and children for younger women.

These abandoned women and children are the least protected and most vulnerable.  This must change! 

[Eligius]

As I said a week ago, this 'law' will be so vague that it will be 'interpreted' variously depending upon the Thai 'official' who is interpreting it.

 

There is still a long way to go  -   as with so much else in Thailand where fairness and justice are concerned.

[boonrawdcnx]

Why would the issue of same sex marriage - or whatever they want to call it - still be controversial ? This is the 21st century and not the dark ages.
And any religious sect be it Christians or Muslims or Buddhists or whatever can shove their opinion where it belongs.

They have no right to interfere in people’s private lives - and if they think they have - they should be clearly told to stick to their fairytales- because for any grown up to deny evolution, believe a virgin gave birth to a child , a pedophile advocating marriage to children -and as many as you like or Buddha leaving a 2 meter footprint has clearly serious mental issues!
They should certainly have no right to interfere in any state business where the governments job is to provide equal rights to ALL it’s citizens.

It should be normal for any kind of couple to have a legally binding partnership in today’s world with all the pros and cons if they wish so - it is nobody else’s business.

There are serious legal issues involved for the couple of whatever sex which have nothing to do with any religion like next of kin, re-location, citizenship, inheritance, assets acquired, social security, pension.
Religions have no right to interfere and if they are not able to adjust to the modern world then they are obsolete and should be told to stay out of state business or risk being outlawed.
But of course their brain washing starting at a very young age disguised as “doing good” has always had a more sinister goal - control of the masses.
Prevent them to become thinking individuals and independent.

The goal of traditional religions -together with the state - has always been to get young people into the trap of becoming functioning puppets where their religion controls almost every aspect of their lives.
We “educate you” make you dependent and prevent you from becoming a free thinking individual - I mean we could not have people running around being happy doing actually what they want! - Get married, have as many children as possible -which you can not afford to have - borrow get in debt and stay poor and dependent all your life. Shut up and function as we tell you.

Ridiculous that any government would allow any outdated religious opinion into important legal matters like equal partnership rights.



Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Meanwhile, NLA member Panu Uthairat disclosed to The Nation that the Life Partnership Bill has not been submitted to the NLA for consideration yet. “I want to assure you that no such bill has been passed on to NLA, so our Muslim and Christian friends can be relieved.”

Just Christian and Muslim bigots eh, no Buddhists at all against equality. 

 

Give me a break...

[KiChakayan]

At least they could pass the bill to allow lesbian marriages, no one could oppose that.

[Nyezhov]

Gay folks have the right to be equally miserable I guess so let them get married.

 

If I turned gay tomorrow, I would stridently oppose gay marriage, knowing what its like from prior experience. Im sorry Bill, the law says we cant get married...but I love you *happy dance when Bill leaves the room*

[HAKAPALITA]

No matter what side you bat for, the one who has got all the money will loose most of it to the poor one regardless of equality.

[Nyezhov]

10 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

No matter what side you bat for, the one who has got all the money will loose most of it to the poor one regardless of equality.

Divorce lawyers love gay marriage. Creates inventory for them.

[kamahele]

If the Christian and Muslim communities don't want same gender marriage then they are free to marry those of the opposite gender.... There would be a terrific amount of money to be made by legalizing same gender marriage in Thailand and the first in SEA. This in addition to the more important human rights aspect

[KhunFred]

1 hour ago, HAKAPALITA said:

No matter what side you bat for, the one who has got all the money will loose most of it to the poor one regardless of equality.

How would this happen in Thailand? The laws favor men.  My understanding is that a woman can only take what she brought into the marriage.  Comments?  Of course, if you take your Thai wife to a western country, then you get what you deserve. 

[dickjones2018]

what about equal rights for farangs that marry a thai women, work, have family ... as in divorce , owner of one plot of land, etc...

 

no need for a handout, those only excist for thai government workers

 

but a simple right to live here, with your family, divorced or not

 

when will TV start some kind of union of/for farangs to fight for some basic human rights or did thailand not sign that paper (universal right to be with your family ?)

[jingjingna]

4 hours ago, boonrawdcnx said:

Why would the issue of same sex marriage - or whatever they want to call it - still be controversial ? This is the 21st century and not the dark ages.
And any religious sect be it Christians or Muslims or Buddhists or whatever can shove their opinion where it belongs.

They have no right to interfere in people’s private lives - and if they think they have - they should be clearly told to stick to their fairytales- because for any grown up to deny evolution, believe a virgin gave birth to a child , a pedophile advocating marriage to children -and as many as you like or Buddha leaving a 2 meter footprint has clearly serious mental issues!
They should certainly have no right to interfere in any state business where the governments job is to provide equal rights to ALL it’s citizens.

It should be normal for any kind of couple to have a legally binding partnership in today’s world with all the pros and cons if they wish so - it is nobody else’s business.

There are serious legal issues involved for the couple of whatever sex which have nothing to do with any religion like next of kin, re-location, citizenship, inheritance, assets acquired, social security, pension.
Religions have no right to interfere and if they are not able to adjust to the modern world then they are obsolete and should be told to stay out of state business or risk being outlawed.
But of course their brain washing starting at a very young age disguised as “doing good” has always had a more sinister goal - control of the masses.
Prevent them to become thinking individuals and independent.

The goal of traditional religions -together with the state - has always been to get young people into the trap of becoming functioning puppets where their religion controls almost every aspect of their lives.
We “educate you” make you dependent and prevent you from becoming a free thinking individual - I mean we could not have people running around being happy doing actually what they want! - Get married, have as many children as possible -which you can not afford to have - borrow get in debt and stay poor and dependent all your life. Shut up and function as we tell you.

Ridiculous that any government would allow any outdated religious opinion into important legal matters like equal partnership rights.



Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Absolutely nailed it! Couldn't have put it better myself! ????

[Ulic]

Be careful what you wish for. With rights come responsibilities. The joys of marriage are balanced with the pains of divorce. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Ulic said:

Be careful what you wish for. With rights come responsibilities. The joys of marriage are balanced with the pains of divorce. 

Worry about that if/when Thailand actually achieves marriage equality. As I've been saying recently which this topic confirms, do not hold your breath. 

[sirwilly]

They should approve it fast as there will be a lot of money to be made as the first in south west Asia gay couples will come from all over  Asia  to get married. So will increase tourism and put money in the governments pockets. It can be done in the Philippines but its a long drawn out process.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, sirwilly said:

They should approve it fast as there will be a lot of money to be made as the first in south west Asia gay couples will come from all over  Asia  to get married. So will increase tourism and put money in the governments pockets. It can be done in the Philippines but its a long drawn out process.

Maybe pay closer attention. It's probably not going to happen and even if/when it does it's already been clearly proposed that at least one partner needs to be a Thai national. So your tourism promotion idea falls flat. 

[zaZa9]

5 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

At least they could pass the bill to allow lesbian marriages, no one could oppose that.

 Further "Inequality" amongst the unequal ...

[Jingthing]

7 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

At least they could pass the bill to allow lesbian marriages, no one could oppose that.

I reckon you are confusing heterosexual male sexual fantasies with this civil rights issue.

[seahorse]

There seems to be a lot of confused people in this thread who think that marriage is about love. 

[dcnx]

11 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Men control Thai laws which are designed to protect men who leave their wives and children for younger women.

These abandoned women and children are the least protected and most vulnerable.  This must change! 

I agree. But they will clean up their road carnage before they do that.

 

Also, plenty of information out there about foreigners preying on these women with young children, as the foreigners are often pedophiles and find situations to exploit. Knowing this, it explains why many are here and with local women with very young children.

[DrTuner]

Yes just a dream. Farang women married to Thais need show no money in the bank for visas and can get PRs without Thai language or even a job. Far cry from the hoops set up for farang men married to Thais.

[smotherb]

On 1/2/2019 at 5:36 AM, mikebell said:

There's no equality in a Thai/Thai marriage - the man rules the roost; there's no equality in a Thai/farang marriage - the woman takes him to the cleaners.

Gee whiz oh omniscient one; do you really believe that? 

[mikebell]

10 hours ago, smotherb said:

Gee whiz oh omniscient one; do you really believe that? 

Yes.  I live on an estate of 62 houses; my four closest friends are suffering from Thai wife syndrome.  Retiree 1 put the house in his wife's name; she drinks herself senseless daily & is barely home.  Retiree 2 also gave his wife the house and is daily abused and treated with contempt.  Retiree 3 also put the his wife's name on the deed - she made his life so unpleasant he became clinically depressed and now lives in Cambodia.  I was clever & put my house in a company name & found to my horror my wife had acquired 50% of the shares when I did my annual tax audit (signing 46 pages of docs all in Thai.)  I left her; took up with another woman and now am being sued for 6 million as her feelings have been hurt.

I don't know everybody's story - there might be more. 

[smotherb]

1 hour ago, mikebell said:

Yes.  I live on an estate of 62 houses; my four closest friends are suffering from Thai wife syndrome.  Retiree 1 put the house in his wife's name; she drinks herself senseless daily & is barely home.  Retiree 2 also gave his wife the house and is daily abused and treated with contempt.  Retiree 3 also put the his wife's name on the deed - she made his life so unpleasant he became clinically depressed and now lives in Cambodia.  I was clever & put my house in a company name & found to my horror my wife had acquired 50% of the shares when I did my annual tax audit (signing 46 pages of docs all in Thai.)  I left her; took up with another woman and now am being sued for 6 million as her feelings have been hurt.

I don't know everybody's story - there might be more. 

How many of those wives were bar girls? How many had drug and or alcohol problems? How many married for the money rather than for love? If you talk about only those sorts of women and relationships, you can expect to have some problems?

 

You speak of anecdotes, so I will too. I know many farangs happily married to Thai girls, some were bar girls. However, few happily married ones have women with alcohol or drug  problems and even fewer yet have women who married only for money.

 

However, any woman from any country who has a negotiable virtue and has alcohol or drug problems and who moves in for money only is a candidate for problems.

 

In all you mention it appears there is a problem of trust. Did the women have other boyfriends, was the farang just a cuckold and nothing more than a long-term customer? From your descriptions it certainly sounds that way.

 

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, mikebell said:

Yes.  I live on an estate of 62 houses; my four closest friends are suffering from Thai wife syndrome.  Retiree 1 put the house in his wife's name; she drinks herself senseless daily & is barely home.  Retiree 2 also gave his wife the house and is daily abused and treated with contempt.  Retiree 3 also put the his wife's name on the deed - she made his life so unpleasant he became clinically depressed and now lives in Cambodia.  I was clever & put my house in a company name & found to my horror my wife had acquired 50% of the shares when I did my annual tax audit (signing 46 pages of docs all in Thai.)  I left her; took up with another woman and now am being sued for 6 million as her feelings have been hurt.

I don't know everybody's story - there might be more. 

I put my house (90%) in the bank's name, it solved many potential problems for the next 27 years.

But you misses getting hold of the company shares is a new one on me, naughty girl!

[BritManToo]

12 hours ago, smotherb said:

Gee whiz oh omniscient one; do you really believe that? 

I believe that if the foreign guy is one of these, trusting/sharing/truthful fools.

The Thai guys that go that path are often cheated too.

 

Never trust a woman, they ain't designed to be trusted.

[Rugon]

On 1/2/2019 at 5:36 AM, mikebell said:

There's no equality in a Thai/Thai marriage - the man rules the roost; there's no equality in a Thai/farang marriage - the woman takes him to the cleaners.

Are you saying that a female farang takes a Thai man to the cleaners? Or are you judging every mixed marriage based on your own experience?