BREAKING NEWS Thai immigration reveals new requirements for retirement, marriage extensions (visas)

[moe666]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Based on many of the posts in this thread I think below images sums it up.

 

 

 

 

 

Good one

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

22 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

For the us Brits and the Danes there's nothing much new in this process. We've always had to prove our incomes to our respective embassies, so we're used to it.

 

But I can understand that this must be rather daunting for our US and Aussie colleagues. This all new to them.

 

Don't worry guys, you'll get used to it.

 

ML

 

It's curious to me how people like you, in the post above, keep misportraying what's going on here.

 

For monthly income folks, the rule has changed the same for Americans, Brits, Aussies and Danes alike -- before, those monthly income funds could stay in their respective home countries as desired. Now, 40K or 65K of those funds have to be transferred monthly into a Thai bank account -- something that never was an Immigration requirement before for any nationality.

 

The only difference that existed before among the four countries you mentioned was what kind of income verification process the respective Embassies had as part of their income letter issuing process. But now that none of the four are issuing income letters any more at all, expats from all four of those countries are in exactly the same new and different situation with Immigration's new rules.

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Grusa said:

If you follow the rules to the letter, turn up properly prepared, properly dressed, and with a proper....not obsequious (crawling?) attitude, and quietly submit to whatever ritual paperwork humiliation they can impose, you will be fine. If you turn up with all your tattoos, your manbreasts and/or your _ hanging out, you will be refused. Respect is not Rocket Science!

I have direct experience to the contrary, backed up by many, many reports by others.  Collared-shirt, slacks, proper shoes, fresh from the shower and with every document required and backup proof for my embassy-letter.  It didn't make a whit of difference - new pics, more landlord-docs (irrelevant), still not good enough.  And that was after the Non-O desk had already given me a fake requirements list for that first step - refusing income as a valid way to qualify entirely, in contradiction to the rules.  In both cases, the only solution was to go to a Thai embassy abroad for a Visa.

 

Corrupt IOs pushing a percentage to agents for payoffs don't care how you are dressed, they only care if you can be extorted to support their lifestyle.  I am glad you haven't hit one - but if you do, you will need those "friends in high places" to get them to do their job according to the actual laws/rules.

 

3 hours ago, Grusa said:

.they want to know you will not become a burden on the State. Same as USA, UK, Woop-Woop.

How exactly does one become a "burden to the state" as a foreigner in Thailand?  BTW, the USA doesn't care - refuse to pass changes to immigration law to stop those dependent on handouts from coming and staying.  Even removing the worst violent-felons among the illegals creates an outcry - never-mind using fake federal docs to steal citizen's former careers, etc - almost never prosecuted, no matter how much damage they do.

 

No comparison to Thailand - no handouts, and no little-violins playing for lawbreaking foreigners, even if their "only crime" was overstaying their visa. 

[ginjag]

3 minutes ago, moe666 said:

reading threw many of the post I canot believe how hard some people are making this it appears clear cut to me. From now you will need to deposit, 65k for retirement and 40k for marriage, monthly in a Thai bank account if you are using the income method. I have to ask how hard is that. of course a few are already figureing out how to scam the system or even wanting a lower bhat amount for the two options. The lower amt. will not happen you are probably lucky they didn't raise the amt needed.. Reading comprehension seems to be big problem with many who post here. 

Think my friend, when 30k was enough, (pension UK), along with 540k in the bank.   it has drastically changed.  Cannot believe those posters that say it really is not a problem. (i'm all right Jack) attitude.   so I will ask the pension department to up my old age pension to 65k and send it to BKK Bank   ha ha ha.     Some persons live here on 30k a month and accrue a little,  and live well, some do not need A bar girl, hotel food, alcohol, smokes,.......14 years here on 30k  and never a problem...3 bed bungalow Wi Fi, true vision, 2 air con, hot shower  big palmed garden.     Then posters on here say go home----low life---cheap charlie---Better this than a Pattaya or BKK penthouse ....

[Danthai]

35 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There's nothing in any of the details of this latest supposed policy from Thai Immigration that would even suggest what you're currently doing is going to meet their "monthly income" verification requirements.

 

Your deposit into your SCB account is arriving as Thai cash, so SCB presumably is going to be unable to issue you a letter stating that you had 12 monthly foreign source transfers into your SCB account.

 

The more interesting question, though, is whether your US credit union counter withdrawal using BKK Bank -- if you had BKK Bank directly deposit those funds into a BKK Bank account -- would allow BKK Bank to say they handled 12 monthly foreign deposits into your account with them.

 

 

The point is nobody know what will work and what won't work in providing proof of income yet. 46 pages of speculation. Seems many people are panicking with all the what if's. New program wont be rigid until 2020 whatever they accept. At least I am doing the only thing can start doing immediately. I don't intend to start sending my pensions through the Bangkok Bank direct deposit method because it takes too long to start it and/or stop it once its started, especially with Government pensions. Once IO comes out with more info people can figure out what's best for them.  

[riclag]

I was going to along nicely until they changed the transfer requirements of BKK Bank New York from a Domestic to International  starting April 1,2019

Now I  need to use a international transfer(Etrade Bank Acct.$25 P/M) which is double what I paid in fee's previously!

 

I was hoping to avoid transferring monthly(40+K), instead doing quarterly,to save on the fee's.

I could do a one time 400k which is no problem. When doing this amount it triggers a FBAR filing  to the Department of Treasury by electronically filing a Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN.

 

My question is has anybody had any issues(investigated) with this department of the Treasury in the past! Just the word Crime is very intimidating ! 

I have nothing to hide!

Edited January 6, 2019 by riclag

[elviajero]

5 minutes ago, garyk said:

30-40K should be the monthly requirement IMO for retirement here. 65K is a joke.

Just make it 35K across the board, marriage, single. All these different rules are crazy.

The 65K is not about how much they think you need to live on. It’s inflated to primarily - like the min age of 50 - control numbers.

 

Marriage is at 40K because - as you point out - it’s a more realistic (min) amount needed to live on.

[JackThompson]

39 minutes ago, moe666 said:

1 hour ago, garyk said:

30-40K should be the monthly requirement IMO for retirement here. 65K is a joke.

Just make it 35K across the board, marriage, single. All these different rules are crazy.

Good luck with that

Exactly.  Agent-laundered revenue would fall through the floor. 

 

But while we are dreaming, get rid of the age-limit.  All those empty condos and closed restaurants would fill back up, fast - and new jobs for Thais would explode.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, riclag said:

I was going to along nicely until they changed the transfer requirements of BKK Bank New York from a Domestic to International  starting April 1,2019

Now I  need to use a international transfer(Etrade Bank Acct.$25 P/M) which is double what I paid in fee's previously!

 

I was hoping to avoid transferring monthly(40+K), instead doing quarterly,to save on the fee's.

I could do a one time 400k which is no problem. When doing this amount it triggers a FBAR filing  to the Department of Treasury by electronically filing a Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN.

 

 

A monthly Transferwise transfer from your U.S. account to TFW and then onto a BKKB account MIGHT cover what Immigration wants to see, given that BKKB records TFW incoming transfers as international ones.

 

The only unknown question about that approach is BKKB confirming that they'll be willing to issue the kind of foreign transfers letter Thai Immigration is going to want to see based on incoming TFW transfers.

[Moonlover]

25 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

48 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

For the us Brits and the Danes there's nothing much new in this process. We've always had to prove our incomes to our respective embassies, so we're used to it.

 

But I can understand that this must be rather daunting for our US and Aussie colleagues. This all new to them.

 

Don't worry guys, you'll get used to it.

 

ML

 

25 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It's curious to me how people like you, in the post above, keep misportraying what's going on here.

 

For monthly income folks, the rule has changed the same for Americans, Brits, Aussies and Danes alike -- before, those monthly income funds could stay in their respective home countries as desired. Now, 40K or 65K of those funds have to be transferred monthly into a Thai bank account -- something that never was an Immigration requirement before for any nationality.

 

The only difference that existed before among the four countries you mentioned was what kind of income verification process the respective Embassies had as part of their income letter issuing process. But now that none of the four are issuing income letters any more at all, expats from all four of those countries are in exactly the same new and different situation with Immigration's new rules.

 

But there was a difference wasn't there. Americans and Aussies were able to go to their embassies and make a declaration of income without having to provide any proof whatsoever.

 

The rest of us have always had to provide 'proof of income' so we're used to it. But now we're all playing by the same rules now and personally I think it's for the better.

 

Interesting isn't it. It wasn't so long ago that whenever I piped up and said the income method was alive and well, I was castigated and treated as a heretic. Well, we've certainly changed our tune now haven't we.

 

ML

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

When I did my first extension based on marriage, I was advised my a senior IO that funds coming from overseas into my Thai bank account needed to be from a pension. I told him the money comes from rental properties. He said I shouldn't be telling him this because that type of income is not allowed on a marriage extension. I even had a letter from my embassy stating I receive X amount every month. I guess he felt sorry for me because he processed the extension nonetheless.

THIS.  Yours is not the first report of this.  IOs who want to make problems / send you to an agent take advantage of this "pension" language. 
 

[elviajero]

17 minutes ago, Danthai said:

The point is nobody know what will work and what won't work in providing proof of income yet. 46 pages of speculation.

A letter from the bank confirming 12 foreign transfers of the 40K or 65K. And the bank book showing the 12 transfers.  Seems clear and straightforward.

 

What we still don’t know for sure is whether or not they will accept an average of deposit amounts if some are below the required 40/65K.

 

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Trollmann said:

Thailand have a lot to learn from Sweden.

In more ways than one - like being more careful who they let in.  Stay safe and take pictures, so when your grand-kids ask, "What was Sweden like?" they can see. 

 

2 hours ago, zydeco said:

Feel much the same. How do I get to Sweden?

I think the current drop-off point is Spain (Italy now closed), then you work your way through the EU from there, demanding to be allowed to go to the location with the most generous handout-amounts. 

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

But there was a difference wasn't there. Americans and Aussies were able to go to their embassies and make a declaration of income without having to provide any proof whatsoever.

 

The rest of us have always had to provide 'proof of income' so we're used to it. But now we're all playing by the same rules now and personally I think it's for the better.

UKers provided evidence.  Not sure if they faced a felony-charge for lying, like AU/USA did, though.  The fakers are partying tonight, with that risk gone.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 minutes ago, Danthai said:

The point is nobody know what will work and what won't work in providing proof of income yet. 46 pages of speculation.

 

That's simply not true. It's pretty well clear at this point that 12 monthly transfers from a foreign bank account into one's Thai bank account in the required amount -- either 40K or 65K per month -- is going to satisfy Immigration, provided you bring along your Thai bank book that shows that activity and a bank letter that confirms you had the required foreign source deposits.

 

The flexibility Immigration is talking about during 2019 is for people who may not have had the time to accrue 12 months of foreign transfers by the time their renewal applications come due during the course of the calendar year, given that the new procedures/rules are just being disclosed now at the beginning of January.  If your application was coming due in September, of course, there's no way you could have arranged 12 months of deposits by then, just for this initial year.

 

If I were you, I'd be looking an alternatives to what you're doing now, including checking whether BKKB might consider your U.S. credit union counter withdrawals, if you deposit those funds directly into a BKKB account, as a qualifying foreign source deposit.

 

 

 

[ginjag]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

In more ways than one - like being more careful who they let in.  Stay safe and take pictures, so when your grand-kids ask, "What was Sweden like?" they can see. 

 

I think the current drop-off point is Spain (Italy now closed), then you work your way through the EU from there, demanding to be allowed to go to the location with the most generous handout-amounts. 

Yes and the UK nastily caps your pension you worked 50 years for because you live in Thailand and not normally live in the UK.   

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

But there was a difference wasn't there. Americans and Aussies were able to go to their embassies and make a declaration of income without having to provide any proof whatsoever.

 

The rest of us have always had to provide 'proof of income' so we're used to it. But now we're all playing by the same rules now and personally I think it's for the better.

 

Interesting isn't it. It wasn't so long ago that whenever I piped up and said the income method was alive and well, I was castigated and treated as a heretic. Well, we've certainly changed our tune now haven't we.

 

ML

 

I have no idea what you're talking about, nor what relevance any of it has to do with expats from all 4 countries now having to import their monthly income into Thailand, which none of them ever were required to do in the past.

 

How you had to "prove" your income in the past (providing statements to your embassy to get an income letter) has zero to do with now having to actually import that income into a Thai bank account.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[elviajero]

47 minutes ago, BertM said:

So, starting in July 2019 after the income affidavits & letters have expired, it appears that many expats are still planning to use the monthly income method with bank books & other documentation to support their 65k+ in monthly overseas transfers. My question is, are we sure TI will accept the monthly income method?

It is not yet confirmed what, if any, provision TIB will put in place for applications during the next year. But it does look like they are planning to waive the 12 month requirement.

 

47 minutes ago, BertM said:

What is the backup plan if TI does not accept the income method or the documentation?

 

47 minutes ago, BertM said:

At that point, if you didn't have the money seasoned, what can you do?

Unless you’ve 800K in the bank you’d have to leave and get a new visa.

 

[BertM]

1 hour ago, moe666 said:

From now you will need to deposit, 65k for retirement and 40k for marriage, monthly in a Thai bank account if you are using the income method.

Is that your opinion? Or, is that from the new official announcement by Thai Immigration? If from TI, can you kindly publish the announcement with specifics; how many months of transfers required prior to application, what documents are acceptable, etc.?

Edited January 6, 2019 by BertM

[mogandave]

Is that your opinion? Or, is that from the new official announcement by Thai Immigration? If by TI, can you kindly publish the announcement with specifics; how many months of transfers required prior to application, what documents are acceptable, etc.?

Exactly

[wobalt]

Still wondering why the funds must be foreign sourced??


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[David Walden]

8 hours ago, David Walden said:

Nothing has changed.  All these comments are much to do about nothing.  Thai Immigration appears to be suggesting that they hopefully are getting rid of all the scams...nothing has changed so far as I see it.  It is all the same as it was.  The Embassy letters were part of the Scams...sorry.

In answer to your above uestion, one million is good, but if you have a pension of Bt500,000  per year like an Aussie Pension you would only need Bt300,000 to qualify.  That's the way it has been for 15+ years.  It has not changed.  Most people don't know about this?  As indicated Bt300,000 plus a yearly pension is enough to get a Retirement Visa in Thailand.

1

At the risk of repeating my self over and over again, "nothing has changed". The requirements are still the same. The long-awaited update of the  Thai Immigration statement is just the same as it has been for the last 18 + year.  What they are suggesting is that is that all the corrupt actions cease.  How they handle that that has yet to be decided.

Edited January 6, 2019 by David Walden

[moreem]

11 hours ago, moreem said:

 

Yes, I don't see any change actually ? Can someone tell me in 3 lines what has really changed ?!

 

And it only concern extension, not when applying for visa ?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

[wobalt]

Still wondering why the funds must be foreign sourced??


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To explain it
I have invested in gold in the past. I sell gold for 400 k THB and put it on my thai account. Will it be Accepted or not?


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[sirineou]

10 minutes ago, wobalt said:

Still wondering why the funds must be foreign sourced??


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IMO to insure that visa agent are not leading the funds.

If the funds are locally sourced there could be only three sources IMO

 1) you work and should have a work visa or are investing in Thailand and you should have an IB visa

2) you brought the funds with you and unless you claim that you keep it under your mattress you should be able to show where the funds are deposited and use the deposit option.

3) someone gave the funds  to you.

[Trouble]

Seems that further clarification will be made as time passes.  I would think what they are looking for is the 65,000 baht (approximately $2,000) a month into a Thai bank account from a foreign bank.  Not everyone has a pension as such.  Many live off investments not pensions.  Seems odd that after all this time the immigration department hasn't not got all the angles covered and decided what is really needed to accommodate retirees as it seems what they are after is proof that the retiree can support himself to the tune of 65,000 baht  per month.  Not an unreasonable figure although I am sure many have come to Thailand to live on less and maybe that is what they are really trying to weed out. 

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, jesimps said:

 

Even more foolish to shell out hundreds of thousands of baht annualy to Thai insurance companies when you're fit and healthy and have a good lifestyle. Companies that always seem to find a loophole when it comes to paying out. In my opinion, I have sufficient in my bank at home to self-insure, which I have been doing for the past 12 years. I've even, on occasions, paid out for private treatment for my Thai wife, even though she has govt insurance. If I ever do need treatment, I'll book myself into one of the cheaper hospitals, of which there are plenty around. It's the people like you who make smug statements who're the foolish ones.

Actuarial tables still show even supposedly 'healthy' individuals have accidents and emergencies. Which can be expensive. The government, if it does introduce a mandatory insurance requirement, is highly unlikely to permit self-assessed health cover risk, other than in the form of an expensive bond...which is why 'er, we have insurance policies. However, the agents may come up with something as an adjunct to their visa coverage if required.

Edited January 6, 2019 by SheungWan

[wobalt]

IMO to insure that visa agent are not leading the funds.
If the funds are locally sourced there could be only three sources IMO
 1) you work and should have a work visa or are investing in Thailand and you should have an IB visa
2) you brought the funds with you and unless you claim that you keep it under your mattress you should be able to show where the funds are deposited and use the deposit option.
3) someone gave the funds  to you.

4. I have worked in Thailand and invested the money


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[SheungWan]

29 minutes ago, Trouble said:

Seems that further clarification will be made as time passes.  I would think what they are looking for is the 65,000 baht (approximately $2,000) a month into a Thai bank account from a foreign bank.  Not everyone has a pension as such.  Many live off investments not pensions.  Seems odd that after all this time the immigration department hasn't not got all the angles covered and decided what is really needed to accommodate retirees as it seems what they are after is proof that the retiree can support himself to the tune of 65,000 baht  per month.  Not an unreasonable figure although I am sure many have come to Thailand to live on less and maybe that is what they are really trying to weed out. 

If there is no lump sum to facilitate and the pension is short of 65k per month, then cashing up investments is a consideration. If that is insufficient, then using an agent is a remaining pathway other than a trip home to obtain a visa.

[sirineou]

21 minutes ago, wobalt said:

4. I have worked in Thailand and invested the money


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have you invested it in Thailand or abroad?

  If abroad then your income will be coming from outside Thailand and no problem

   if invested in Thailand ,isn't investment income  in thailand taxed?