BREAKING NEWS Thai immigration reveals new requirements for retirement, marriage extensions (visas)

[ocddave]

16 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

I believe it is just the balance.

To minimize bank fees, once the account is funded and you get your extension, you can spend it down for 8 months and then top it up to facilitate your extension.

You just can’t drop below 400/800k in the 3 months before you apply for your extension.

You can get by with one transfer a year.

 

I moved over about 500K, but I wasn't sure about the international transfer part, as I see some people worried about how Transferwise handles the codes. I used Transferwise to move the money in two separate transfers from US accounts, so I was a little worried about if that transfer part could be an issue.

Edited January 7, 2019 by ocddave

[ubonjoe]

37 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The question really falls to your Thai bank as to what they require to provide a letter stating monthly deposits of 65k baht. I believe that Ti's acceptance of your visa extension application will stand or fall on the bank letter.

It will be the same letter people have been getting from the bank confirming their account for the money in the bank option and copies of your bank for stamped by the bank or a statement from the bank will confirm you have have bringing the money into the country.

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, superal said:

and how did you open the London account , was it in person and also was it straight forward ?

You don't open an account in London. You need a account at Bangkok bank here in the country. 

Info is here on their website.https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-UK-to-Thailand-via-London-Branch

[Kerryd]

Has it been "officially" confirmed that this is the new policy and what date it takes effect ? 

 

I'm assuming they will give people a grace period and, as they expect 12 months of deposits, they wouldn't start enforcing this new regulation until Jan 2020 ?

 

("Assuming" because I haven't seen an official announcement anywhere - just .pdf copies of a handwritten document.)

[tigerbalm]

Hi I suspect there a a few people here that use transferwise to send money to their Thai Bank account.

If you send it to Bangkok Bank it gets recorded on your Savings book or Bank statement as FTT (Foreign Transfer Transaction)

 

But like my self i have the money sent to Kasikorn But it gets recorded on my savings book and Bank statements as Dummy Branch.

Does any body know how that would be interpreted by the immigration if one was applying for the yearly extension of stay ?

Regards

TB

 

[sead]

23 hours ago, Eligius said:

On the face of it, this looks EXTREMELY worrying for British retirees here. The irresponsible action of the British embassy in not confirming a retiree's income flow could be the death knell for many Brits here. Also, as far as I understand it, the British Government will not send pensions into a Thai bank account (only into a British one), and not every British bank will automatically forward a pension to a bank account in Thailand every month. Maybe I am wrong. 

 

Perhaps it is not as bad as I fear. What do other members think?

 

 

 

 

In both my Swedish and Danish bank i can forward to any account automatically every month. Are you sure your UK account has restrictions?

[onera1961]

53 minutes ago, maddermax said:

However, I later approached a visa processing company who confirmed that, for B3,500,

Even better. Prices are dropping to 3.5K now. I will do it in a heartbeat. Very cheap service and no hassle with immigration. 

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, ocddave said:

I think you said before the 2 months only works for the first extension with 400k, but 3 months is required for those of us switching in late years. Do the funds in the 3 month scenario need to be proven as sent from abroad, or is it just the balance that matters?

For an extension of stay based upon marriage the 400k baht only has to be in the bank for 2 months for every extension.

Only for the extension based upon retirement has the 60 days for the first extension and then 3 months after that rule.

[David Walden]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I was under the impression that the rules were actually made easier, adding another option for income. The removal of income verification letters by 4 Embassies was the event that created this drama. Immigration accommodated those affected. You might argue IO asking that the Embassy letters  really did verify income started things off too.

Many of those obtaining Embassy letters, affidavits or stat decs were providing no proof that their stated income was true.  It appears that if you did not have the required amount the Embassies would issue a BS one for a price saying you do.  If you have the funds as required you do not need the letter, affidavits or Stat dec.

 

   One better thing that may come about from this issue is using the COMBO requirement.  Like for Australians who only have the Australian Aged Pension Bt500,000 P/A.  You could beg steal or borrow the remaining required Bt300,000 or use your own if you have it, put it in a Thai bank for the required 2 or 3 months before applying for a retirement visa and all would/supposed be above board.   That may be too simple, Thais often like things to be complicated.  This option has been available for a long time, even the Immigration Officers scratch their heads when you ask about it.  It's not new.  Perhaps a bit of office training and consistency is all that is needed from office to office.  It is the next best thing... for a price.

[Surasak]

16 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I have confirmed several times that is does not affect the money in the bank or the combination option.

The order only revises the the proof of income requirements. It mentions nothing else.

Thanks Ubonjoe for clarifying the point.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, KhunFred said:

It appears that until 2020, a retiree can still use tax statements or receipts from a foreign bank account as "proof".  Am I reading this correctly??

I don't know exactly what you mean however to the best of my knowledge the information under is accurate and may answer your question. 

 

You, as a retiree, are generally not allowed to work in Thailand, only Thai tax statements are accepted with no other documents (embassy letter) 

 

Tax statments etc from outside Thailand are usually accepted by an embassy to issue at letter/affidavit, they are not accepted by Thai immigration. Foreign income/pension paid outside Thailand must be supported by an embassy document 

 

 

As a retiree (800k or 65k monthly) If you belong to the U.K., U.S.A. Australia or Denmark your only income option is that foreign money (income/pension etc) must be sent to a Thai bank. The proof is you must get a bank letter for the account and statement/bank book confirmation that the transfers are from overseas.

Edited January 7, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[ocddave]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

For an extension of stay based upon marriage the 400k baht only has to be in the bank for 2 months for every extension.

Only for the extension based upon retirement has the 60 days for the first extension and then 3 months after that rule.

Thats GOOD news! I was running up close to the 3 month window on my next extension, but now I have a little more breathing room ..Thanks! ????

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Many of those obtaining Embassy letters, affidavits or stat decs were providing no proof that their stated income was true.  It appears that if you did not have the required amount the Embassies would issue a BS one for a price saying you do.  If you have the funds as required you do not need the letter, affidavits or Stat dec.

Completely untrue for those obtaining British Embassy income letters.

[onera1961]

10 minutes ago, sead said:

In both my Swedish and Danish bank i can forward to any account automatically every month. Are you sure your UK account has restrictions?

Wire transfer is very expensive in the US. I have never done it but I assume their rate is also not as good as Transferwise. And on top of that, Thai bank may also get some cuts. I will shop for cheap agents and hopefully with the new announcement, agent prices will also drop for somebody with regular transferwise transfer. As i transfer every week, only US bank charges for wire transfer will be more than $1000USD. I will rather give money to local agents than legalized robbery of US/Thai banks

Edited January 7, 2019 by onera1961

[luckyluke]

10 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Evidence of income from a foreign embassy or consulate

 

I missed that part.  “Evidence” can mean many things.

I have done +/- 10 extensions.

My Letter of Income issued by the Austrian Consulate in Pattaya has always been accepted by Immigration as " Evidence ", never been asked for  additional documents ( so far ).

I am Belgian with a monthly government pension of about 78000 ThB actually .

We all have a government pension in Belgium, and my amount received is a good average.

[David Walden]

38 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Bank statements alone, even from Thai bank, have never been an acceptable proof.

Don't know why you find it confusing?

It's rather simple: The main proof is an Embassy Letter or a Thai Bank Letter.

You will not get your extension without one or the other.

This option has stopped as it had more holes in then Swiss Cheese.

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

Has it been "officially" confirmed that this is the new policy and what date it takes effect ? 

I'm assuming they will give people a grace period and, as they expect 12 months of deposits, they wouldn't start enforcing this new regulation until Jan 2020 ?

The actual directive/order is not handwritten. I was typed in Thai.

There is cover letter that goes with it that is signed by immigration commissioner that makes it official.

There is a grace period for the first extension and that will be in effect for those applying this year.

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, David Walden said:

This option has stopped as it had more holes in then Swiss Cheese.

Only for Americans and Australians, not for Brits which leads me to conclude that the original request for more verification by TI was aimed more at the US Embassy rather than the British Embassy.

[polkop11]

How do they differ the transfer requirements between condo owners and condo renters ?

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Only for Americans and Australians, not for Brits which leads me to conclude that the original request for more verification by TI was aimed more at the US Embassy rather than the British Embassy.

They wanted to the UK embassy to confirm they verified the income. All they did before was look at copies of documents sent by the applicant.

[SooKee]

40 minutes ago, tigerbalm said:

Hi I suspect there a a few people here that use transferwise to send money to their Thai Bank account.

If you send it to Bangkok Bank it gets recorded on your Savings book or Bank statement as FTT (Foreign Transfer Transaction)

 

But like my self i have the money sent to Kasikorn But it gets recorded on my savings book and Bank statements as Dummy Branch.

Does any body know how that would be interpreted by the immigration if one was applying for the yearly extension of stay ?

Regards

TB

 

Same for me.  That said, the last transfer I did show up clearly as an international transaction with an appropriate transaction code. Previously mine have also been 'Dummy Branch' with a misc code.   Now, if they all show up with the International code over the next year, no problem.  Problem is, on another thread related to TW, at least one poster has said he has also seen codes jump back and forth between 'Dummy Branch' and the international code over the last year so it's not certain yet if the international code will be used without fail in the future.  You don't really want a few transactions jumping back to the nebulous 'Dummy Branch' UNLESS Kasikorn can refer to their systems and actually audit the transaction as emanating from outside Thailand.  It would be interesting to get hold of one of their credit advice / receipt slips and see what one of those says in respect of a 'Dummy Branch' transfer.  If that contains the full audit trail it should be no problem to have Kasikorn provide the letter regarding the international nature of the deposits.  If however the Kasikorn system (credit advice / receipt) audit trail 'stops' at Bangkok Bank, the bank TW transfer to - problem.  

 

I haven't ever had to get one of these credit advice slips before and another poster mentioned (IIRC) that it's easier to get them when the transaction is recent.  Given my last one is international I have to wait for a dummy branch one to show up.  I'm going into the bank later so I might just see if they can pull up a credit advice for the most recent of my 'Dummy Branch' listings and see what it says, the other poster mentioned you may have to contact the Kasikorn Head Office / call centre to get the advice slip.  Obviously if you transfer to Kasikorn direct from an overseas bank it will show up as an international transaction so no problem there, it's just using services like TW that route funds through another Thai bank before it reaches you.  If your are with BKK Bank, TW's current partner in Thailand, it will show as an international transaction.

 

While all these changes are still a good year off I'm trying to get my head round how best to do my transfers over the next year to ensure it all complies.  So ultimately it will depend on how much help Kasikorn can be in the event of a rogue 'Dummy Branch' transaction showing up. I'm also considering other options.  I'm testing out now if HSBC transfers are still getting hit with intermediary fees along with the other option of opening a BKK Bank account (and all the potential running around that will entail!!).  Only problem with opening a BKK account is if TW suddenly change their business partnership in Thailand (as HSBC did which resulted in customers getting hit with intermediary charges on top of the £4 HSBC TX fee), better deal /rates etc., as you'd then be back to square one, scratching around to open an account with whoever they change to do business with.  Most favoured option would be Kasikorn being able to audit back the Dummy Branch transactions from their own systems (if it entails them having to contact any other bank you can forget it I think) to show the international source.  Better IMO than being held hostage to either HSBC or TW changing their business partners / operating practices.

 

Given that many folks that never maybe previously never needed Thai bank accounts might now need them it makes you wonder if TI might liaise with the banks to make opening an account less of a ball ache than it has become!

Edited January 7, 2019 by SooKee

[freedomnow]

So the 400k in the bank method for marriage...nothing really changed...it does not need to be bank wired in to Thailand on first application or subsequent yearly applications...i.e its a recyclable pool of money for yearly residency.

 

Regarding the 800k 3 months in the bank for retirees...can that pool of money be re-used yearly if a person is using other funds for surviving, or does the entire amount have to be wired in the next year freshly ?

Edited January 7, 2019 by freedomnow

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

All this BS about the changes being for the benefit of the "agents" is just that.

BS

Why ? Because if you follow the rules (and aren't pathetically lazy) you don't need an agent AT ALL.

I have always done my extensions whether marriage or retirement myself-for decades- few problems.

However, the problem I see with this coming change will be from individual Immigration offices that either refuse to abide by the guidance from Immigration Central; establishing their own requirements; or never getting the word.

This has already been documented under the prior system and undoubtedly will not change.

There is no doubt that some IOs make it difficult for individual's handling their own extensions in the hope that time runs out; that applicants get frustrated and they then turn to agents or provide monies for express service.

 

[wealthychef]

On 1/6/2019 at 9:22 AM, Eligius said:

On the face of it, this looks EXTREMELY worrying for British retirees here. The irresponsible action of the British embassy in not confirming a retiree's income flow could be the death knell for many Brits here. Also, as far as I understand it, the British Government will not send pensions into a Thai bank account (only into a British one), and not every British bank will automatically forward a pension to a bank account in Thailand every month. Maybe I am wrong. 

 

Perhaps it is not as bad as I fear. What do other members think?

 

 

 

 

 

From what I read, it's all about what they mean by "show a full 12 months worth of income coming to a Thai bank account."  I certainly earn the 65k THB from savings, but I don't necessarily spend it all in Thailand nor deposit it into Thai banks.  And what does a deposit and a withdrawal prove anyhow?  

[Pib]

29 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Wire transfer is very expensive in the US. I have never done it but I assume their rate is also not as good as Transferwise. And on top of that, Thai bank may also get some cuts. I will shop for cheap agents and hopefully with the new announcement, agent prices will also drop for somebody with regular transferwise transfer. As i transfer every week, only US bank charges for wire transfer will be more than $1000USD. I will rather give money to local agents than legalized robbery of US/Thai banks

Obviously you have not even looked at your US bank website and/or communicated with them asking what a wire transfer costs otherwise you would not have made a statement that US bank charges would be more than $1000 per year.   The typical cost for a US bank wire transfer is in the $20 to $45 range.  Even if you use the upper figure 12 times 45 is $540; using the lower figure it's $240.  And a few people with certain accounts don't even get a sending fee, but those are in a small minority. 

 

And when it comes to exchange rate DO NOT let your US bank convert to baht before sending as they will indeed give you an exchange rate several percent lower than Thai bank.  Always send US dollars...let the Thai bank accomplish the exchange.    

 

And when your transfer arrives your Thai bank the typical receiving fee for an international transfer is 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max). 

 

And yes, there might some intermediary bank fee but usually that don't occur....it's in a small minority if you use some small US bank/credit union.

 

So, let's take some middle ground here on wire fees.  Let's say your sending bank charges $35 per transfer for say a monthly $2,100 transfer which at 32 baht per dollar gives  Bt67,200 per month arriving your Thai bank.  For such an amount their Bt200 ($6.25) minimum fee would apply so Bt67K gets deposited to your account....you have a Bt2K fudge factor for currency exchange fluctuations.   So, in total fees per month you have $35 plus $6.25 for $41.25....times 12 months that is $495....a little less than Bt16K. 

 

So, in your cost analysis as to whether you want to got with an agent (along with the risks of using that approach) then you might want to use around Bt16K in your cost analysis of whether to do monthly wire transfers or use an agent. (But don't do this until you check with your bank to see what they charge for a wire).

 

 

 

[sendintheclowns]

On 1/6/2019 at 9:34 AM, ubonjoe said:

Thye amendment only mentions changes to income option. No changes for the money in the bank or the combination option.

the worrying never stops, esp if you're when you're in your 70's. and have experienced 22 years of annual extensions. my wife piggy backs on my extension. This has been a discretionary practice by IO's.... there is always the possibility that they will take it away, requiring us to show 1.6 million a year income or a similar amount in the bank. we have already experienced the reaction that the 800,000 in the bank is not enough... our IO has asked us to show that we have money coming in and that we are spending it, during the previous 12 months.                                                                      Joe: I have a question about how early I may apply, prior to my retirement extension date (there are more circumstances which I will not post here). Thanks to all for the great support group. I believe that without that support, Thailand is not such an attractive place for Westerners to retire to any more. 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, freedomnow said:

So the 400k in the bank method for marriage...nothing really changed...it does not need to be bank wired in to Thailand on first application or subsequent yearly applications.

 

Regarding the 800k 3 months in the bank for retirees...can that pool of money be re-used yearly if a person is using other funds for surviving, or does the entire amount have to be wired in the next year freshly ?

There is no requirement to prove the money came from abroad when using the money in the bank option for an extension of stay application.

You can leave the money in the bank if you want to. There is no requirement to bring new funds in every year,

[zydeco]

If the Bank Statement/Letter is now to replace the Embassy Letter, will this new Bank Letter be something we can acquire, say, a day or two before going into Chaeng Wattana for the new extension? As I understand, the current rule requires a bank letter the day of the extension. That will make for a very long day at Chaeng Wattana, with lines not only at Immigration but at the Bangkok Bank outlet, too.

Edited January 7, 2019 by zydeco

[tigerbalm]

Duplicate post...Sorry

Edited January 7, 2019 by tigerbalm
Duplicate post

[JackThompson]

 

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

And judging from the number of 'workarounds' that I've been reading about on this very topic, there were quite a few fakers.

Many who legally qualified to use the letter do/did not have 65K "extra" mo-income above all expenses - they had 65K gross-mo-income - so were not faking anything. 

 

Those people will need those workarounds to pay passport-country expenses.  For example, paying a property-tax bill to avoid burning all bridges (since Thailand doesn't hand out PR/Citizenship easily, and "you never know...").  Also, many (some countries) have taxes taken directly from their benefit payments, so will need to send extra to make up this shortfall, returning it to replenish for the next month.

 

Unfortunately, the same techniques a legit person would use, can also be used to fake an income that doesn't exist, by "rotating money" out and back.  It will be pretty much impossible to tell the difference, given no guidelines on "how much" of the 65K one would be permitted to use for passport-country expenses was defined - or how such xfers would even be checked/monitored.

 

 

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

9 hours ago, wobalt said:

Still wondering why the funds must be foreign sourced??

To cut down on the scammers that would simply transfer the 40/65k from one Thai bank account to another (then withdraw it, redeposit it in the other bank and then re-transfer it again the next month).

Yes - this would defeat the purpose of getting the embassies to withdraw the letters, which were competing with immigration's agent-business.  Sending money "back home" is still possible, but a PITA to manage xfers to here, then xfers back - so most with home-country expenses to cover will likely pay an agent to avoid needing to deal with the financial-qualifications (or home-visits, TM-30s, etc) entirely.

 

 

3 hours ago, Mad mick said:

big problem for aussies on government old age pensions single is or = approx 42,000 baht per month as it stands now with aussie dollar being so weak , unpredictable currency

So, before, your same pension was 65K/mo?  Or how did you qualify, before this change?  To make the new system work, you would need 23K Baht/mo "extra" to send with your pension, which you might need to send-back to cover any expenses you have back in AU.

 

Having to send money back to pay passport-country expenses will be a PITA for many - but just keep in mind, the purpose of this change was to get some big-embassies to quit competing with agent-business by providing those letters.  With the bar now set higher (net-imported vs gross income), immigration will be raking in brown-envelopes from UK, USA, AU expats.  I would be very surprised if the agent-business goes away, so those who don't want to deal with sending money round-trip, to make Thai immigration happy, will have that option.