BREAKING NEWS Thai immigration reveals new requirements for retirement, marriage extensions (visas)

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, sendintheclowns said:

Joe: I have a question about how early I may apply, prior to my retirement extension date (there are more circumstances which I will not post here).

You can apply up to 30 days early or 45 days at some offices.

[tigerbalm]

23 minutes ago, SooKee said:

Same for me.  That said, the last transfer I did show up clearly as an international transaction with an appropriate transaction code. Previously mine have also been 'Dummy Branch' with a misc code.   Now, if they all show up with the International code over the next year, no problem.  Problem is, on another thread related to TW, at least one poster has said he has also seen codes jump back and forth between 'Dummy Branch' and the international code over the last year so it's not certain yet if the international code will be used without fail in the future.  You don't really want a few transactions jumping back to the nebulous 'Dummy Branch' UNLESS Kasikorn can refer to their systems and actually audit the transaction as emanating from outside Thailand.  It would be interesting to get hold of one of their credit advice / receipt slips and see what one of those says in respect of a 'Dummy Branch' transfer.  If that contains the full audit trail it should be no problem to have Kasikorn provide the letter regarding the international nature of the deposits.  If however the Kasikorn system (credit advice / receipt) audit trail 'stops' at Bangkok Bank, the bank TW transfer to - problem.  

 

I haven't ever had to get one of these credit advice slips before and another poster mentioned (IIRC) that it's easier to get them when the transaction is recent.  Given my last one is international I have to wait for a dummy branch one to show up.  I'm going into the bank later so I might just see if they can pull up a credit advice for the most recent of my 'Dummy Branch' listings and see what it says, the other poster mentioned you may have to contact the Kasikorn Head Office / call centre to get the advice slip.  Obviously if you transfer to Kasikorn direct from an overseas bank it will show up as an international transaction so no problem there, it's just using services like TW that route funds through another Thai bank before it reaches you.  If your are with BKK Bank, TW's current partner in Thailand, it will show as an international transaction.

 

While all these changes are still a good year off I'm trying to get my head round how best to do my transfers over the next year to ensure it all complies.  So ultimately it will depend on how much help Kasikorn can be in the event of a rogue 'Dummy Branch' transaction showing up. I'm also considering other options.  I'm testing out now if HSBC transfers are still getting hit with intermediary fees along with the other option of opening a BKK Bank account (and all the potential running around that will entail!!).  Only problem with opening a BKK account is if TW suddenly change their business partnership in Thailand (as HSBC did which resulted in customers getting hit with intermediary charges on top of the £4 HSBC TX fee), better deal /rates etc., as you'd then be back to square one, scratching around to open an account with whoever they change to do business with.  Most favoured option would be Kasikorn being able to audit back the Dummy Branch transactions from their own systems (if it entails them having to contact any other bank you can forget it I think) to show the international source.  Better IMO than being held hostage to either HSBC or TW changing their business partners / operating practices.

 

Given that many folks that never maybe previously never needed Thai bank accounts might now need them it makes you wonder if TI might liaise with the banks to make opening an account less of a ball ache than it has become!

Hi

Thanks for that i would be interested in what the outcome of your visit.

I doubt whether Kasikorn would be able to change the wording on ones savings book or bank statements indicating a Foreign Transfer Transaction as opposed to Dummy branch.

Issuing a new book with the updated entry seems highly unlikely let alone changing the entry on the Bank statements.

One thought would be if you are going to visit Kasikorn it might be an idear if you asked them if they would supply a letter indicating that the 65K  being transferred in to their bank (Kasikorn) every month from overseas or just coming in to ones account.

Regards

TB

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, zydeco said:

If the Bank Statement/Letter is now to replace the Embassy Letter, will this new Bank Letter be something we can acquire, say, a day or two before going into Chaeng Wattana for the new extension? As I understand, the current rule requires a bank letter the day of the extension. That will make for a very long day at Chaeng Wattana, with lines not only at Immigration but at the Bangkok Bank outlet, too.

The will accept a letter from the bank done the day before you apply,

But for the money in the bank option they want the bank book updated on the day you apply to prove the money is still in the bank. For proving the income that would not be needed since you are not proving the balance in the account.

[sendintheclowns]

excuse if off topic, as I have 2 dtadlines I am trying to coordinate: My wife is not eligible for the online filing and we missed the 15 day mail in.

our 90 day is due on Jan 13 (a Sunday) so that menas we need to file it in operson on Jan 11. no problem there. 

Our Retirement extension is February 11.

Do the regulation allow for us to visit Immigration on the 10th or 11th January and file for an extension of retirement? the 800,000 baht has been on deposit for 3 months. 

Thanks in advance.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, ocddave said:

I think you said before the 2 months only works for the first extension with 400k, but 3 months is required for those of us switching in late years. Do the funds in the 3 month scenario need to be proven as sent from abroad, or is it just the balance that matters?

400K two mo before applying every year for family/marriage based.  Two months the first time for retirement-based, and 3 months for each subsequent extension.

 

But some offices are demanding the married/family applicants leave the money in the bank during the "review" period - which is usually one month, but may be more (per a recent report from Chang Wattana).  So, best not to count on using that money for 3 months or more, if applying based on marriage.

 

The "proof it came from abroad" part only applies when/if you get a Non-O-Visa stamp at an immigration office in Thailand - used to start the process of annual extensions if you entered the country on a Tourist Visa (vs a Non-Imm Visa).  No "foreign sourced" proof is needed for annual extensions (marriage or retirement).

[SooKee]

17 minutes ago, tigerbalm said:

Hi

Thanks for that i would be interested in what the outcome of your visit.

I doubt whether Kasikorn would be able to change the wording on ones savings book or bank statements indicating a Foreign Transfer Transaction as opposed to Dummy branch.

Issuing a new book with the updated entry seems highly unlikely let alone changing the entry on the Bank statements.

One thought would be if you are going to visit Kasikorn it might be an idear if you asked them if they would supply a letter indicating that the 65K  being transferred in to their bank (Kasikorn) every month from overseas or just coming in to ones account.

Regards

TB

It's not a case of asking them to change anything.  The International coding is already showing up on their statements / systems WRT TW deposits.  The question is how confident you can be going forward that it will always be used AND when / if the 'Dummy Branch' code happens to be applied to a transaction, can Kasikorn see readily from their systems that the transaction is international (a guide to this will be what a credit advice slip says in respect of a 'Dummy' given that these contain far more detail than a statement / book entry).  If the international nature of the transfer is clear regardless of whether 'Dummy Branch' is used I can't see there being a problem.

 

It has been mentioned elsewhere that the banks have been liaised with and are working to come up with letters / wording that will satisfy TI.  Not much point in asking until that has all been resolved as your average staff member / manager will likely have no idea until it becomes bank policy.  The staff should however already be aware of just how much detail Kasikorn systems show WRT these 'Dummy Branch' Transactions.

Edited January 7, 2019 by SooKee

[holy cow cm]

18 hours ago, bizboi said:

… and do you think the Thai Government will care if they are? "If you are destitute go home" they will tell them!!

Quite insensitive. But they can prevent this as well with proper programs that encompass everything and everyone to every age. 

[Pib]

28 minutes ago, SooKee said:

Same for me.  That said, the last transfer I did show up clearly as an international transaction with an appropriate transaction code. Previously mine have also been 'Dummy Branch' with a misc code.   Now, if they all show up with the International code over the next year, no problem.  Problem is, on another thread related to TW, at least one poster has said he has also seen codes jump back and forth between 'Dummy Branch' and the international code over the last year so it's not certain yet if the international code will be used without fail in the future.  

It all depends on which Transferwise account that Transferwise uses for the final leg of the transfer which is the intra-Thailand domestic leg.   Transferwise has accounts at "at least three different Thai banks/financial companies"....Bangkok Bank, Thai Military Bank, and a business unit with Kaiskorn Bank.   

 

Like several folks have said/experienced sending money to their Bangkok Bank account that their TW transfer shows up as an Int'l Transfer and that is because TW did a the domestic portion of their transfer from their Bangkok Bank account to the person Bangkok Bank account and apparently the agreement/contract between Bankgok Bank and TW is to code as an International Transfer....all done in-house (i.e, Bangkok Bank).

 

However, if TW some day stops using it Bangkok Bank account to do the final leg of the transfer to another Bangkok Bank account....like say they start sending from their TMB account....then the transfer will probably show up as a domestic transfer.....just another transfer coming from another Thai bank.

 

For me my 5 TW transfer to my Bangkok Bank account have all been coded International Transfer and that's because the TW receipt shows they transferred/used their Bangkok Bank account. 

 

However, my 1 TW transfer to my Krungsri account ended "not" being coded as an international transfer....coded as any other domestic transfer....because it was sent from TW's TMB account. 

 

I bet if TW had used their TMB or Kbank account to do the final leg of the transfer to my Bangkok Bank account it would have showed up as just another domestic transfer; no international transfer coding on my Bangkok Bank account.

 

So, just because "today" some folks may see "international transfer" coding on the TW transfers (like transfers to Bangkok Bank) does not mean "tomorrow" it will as TW may change which banks/accounts it has in Thailand to do the final leg to the transfer.  Or TW may not change peering partners/Thai bank accounts; instead, just change how they rotate around which bank/account they use to do the final leg of the transfer.  

 

 

 

[Wullie Mercer]

On 1/6/2019 at 9:22 AM, Eligius said:

On the face of it, this looks EXTREMELY worrying for British retirees here. The irresponsible action of the British embassy in not confirming a retiree's income flow could be the death knell for many Brits here. Also, as far as I understand it, the British Government will not send pensions into a Thai bank account (only into a British one), and not every British bank will automatically forward a pension to a bank account in Thailand every month. Maybe I am wrong. 

 

Perhaps it is not as bad as I fear. What do other members think?

 

 

 

 

Get both my British Government and Shell pensions paid directly into my joint account here in Thailand have done for years no problems.

[wobalt]

They wanted to the UK embassy to confirm they verified the income. All they did before was look at copies of documents sent by the applicant.

If the pension is payed by the government they could easily verified it as well as payments from companies. Other sources maybe difficult


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[theoldgit]

I suppose where some people may be affected, especially those whose position is a little tight, are those who relied on the fact that embassies, like the UK, who used to issue the letters for the total amount before tax, may well have to rely on actual nett incomes after tax which could well push some under the line.

[tigerbalm]

10 minutes ago, SooKee said:

It's not a case of asking them to change anything.  The International coding is already showing up on their statements / systems WRT TW deposits.  The question is how confident you can be going forward that it will always be used AND when / if the 'Dummy Branch' code happens to be applied to a transaction, can Kasikorn see readily from their systems that the transaction is international (a guide to this will be what a credit advice slip says in respect of a 'Dummy' given that these contain far more detail than a statement / book entry).  If the international nature of the transfer is clear regardless of whether 'Dummy Branch' is used I can't see there being a problem.

 

It has been mentioned elsewhere that the banks have been liaised with and are working to come up with letters / wording that will satisfy TI.  Not much point in asking until that has all been resolved as your average staff member / manager will likely have no idea until it becomes bank policy.  The staff should however already be aware of just how much detail Kasikorn systems show WRT these 'Dummy Branch' Transactions.

Yes you are quite correct, i made a mistake of thinking that the DUMMY BRANCH was showing on the Bank book but just looking at it now it shows the money coming in as MCL07416  (What ever that means) and not DUMMY BRANCH as i incorrectly said.

So i assume if the MCL07416 indicates a international transfer then all is Ok to take the book to the immigration office next time i renew my Extension of stay

I would have a problem if i had to show Bank statements as they do show the Dummy Branch next to the deposit, but i am pretty sure they don't accept bank statements.

Apologies for my not paying attention

Regards

TB

 

[geoffbezoz]

3 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

I suppose where some people may be affected, especially those whose position is a little tight, are those who relied on the fact that embassies, like the, UK who used to issue the letters for the total amount before tax, may well have to rely on actual nett incomes after tax which could well push some under the line.

Worse than that.  The income method previously only required verification that you had that amount of income. It did not have to all come into Thailand.   Many of us no doubt can live quite confortably on much less than that and hence not all was transferred to Thailand as perhaps there were outgoings needing to be paid in the UK.   Now the Thai authorities appear to be demanding that all of my pensions ( in my case) are brought into Thailand !!  No more than 17th century natives stealing beads from explorers, with the mentality to match by the looks of it.

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, sendintheclowns said:

our 90 day is due on Jan 13 (a Sunday) so that menas we need to file it in operson on Jan 11. no problem there. 

Our Retirement extension is February 11.

You can do the 90 day report up to 7 days after it is due which your case would be 18th since the 7th day is on a weekend . You could do your extension on the 14th which is well within the 30 days early allowance.

[geoffbezoz]

9 minutes ago, tigerbalm said:

Yes you are quite correct, i made a mistake of thinking that the DUMMY BRANCH was showing on the Bank book but just looking at it now it shows the money coming in as MCL07416  (What ever that means) and not DUMMY BRANCH as i incorrectly said.

So i assume if the MCL07416 indicates a international transfer then all is Ok to take the book to the immigration office next time i renew my Extension of stay

I would have a problem if i had to show Bank statements as they do show the Dummy Branch next to the deposit, but i am pretty sure they don't accept bank statements.

Apologies for my not paying attention

Regards

TB

 

But unfortunately that code ( MCL07416 ) is not listed under the Kasikorn "service Channel" definitions so could mean anything I guess. Certainly as it is not defined by them it can not be taken as granted it means an international transfer or anything else.

[mogandave]

If the pension is payed by the government they could easily verified it as well as payments from companies. Other sources maybe difficult


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How would they verify easily?

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

1 hour ago, David Walden said:

This option has stopped as it had more holes in then Swiss Cheese.

 

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Only for Americans and Australians, not for Brits which leads me to conclude that the original request for more verification by TI was aimed more at the US Embassy rather than the British Embassy.

Interesting comment. I actually got a 'heads up' on this topic 2 or 3 years ago.

 

I used to spend some time in Nong Khai back then, and I met up with a senior American who, like me, liked to take a morning stroll by the river.

 

He told me one day over coffee that he had just completed his extension using the usual affidavit. He was very disturbed by the fact that the I/O had told him that this would be the last extension he would be able to get without providing some proof of income.

 

And he also confessed to me that he would not be able to meet the criteria. 'So maybe this time next year I won't be around here'. he said and he was obviously very upset.

 

So this is not a new sudden decision at all and I think that you're right that it was the affidavits that TI were initially targeting.

[Huckenfell]

Why are they messing us around again.  Are they not satisfied with the money that they suck out of us. Greed seems to be a Thai disease.

[tigerbalm]

2 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

But unfortunately that code ( MCL07416 ) is not listed under the Kasikorn "service Channel" definitions so could mean anything I guess. Certainly as it is not defined by them it can not be taken as granted it means an international transfer or anything else.

yes that is true, guess i need to have a chat with my Branch manager to explain my visa requirement issues and see what he/she can suggest regarding some questions.

Regards

TB 

 

[Expattaff1308]

2 hours ago, gregsmithy said:

On the face of it I see this as making it easier no more expensive letters from the embassy, just prove you have 65/40k a month coming into a thai bank every month.

 

However as a Brit my civil service pension is administered by Citibank as I think are state pensions, this is then sent to Thailand and transferred to my bank (Kasi) from a bangkok source not sure if they use Citi or whoever but I know when it shows on my statement it clearly says Domestic not International. This may cause a problem when asking the bank to confirm that the funds are sourced outside Thailand. I should think most Brits on state pensions may have problems such as this but hopefully letters confirming the source and the bank statements proving the sum is over the required amount will suffice. I said hope as we all know we are at the mercy of the IO who is looking at your paperwork on the day you apply.   

I queried this when I first got my State pension paid into Kasikorn. They told me after quoting a letters/number sequence under the the transaction (Domestic Transfer) with this code number the Bank can tell it is an Int. Transfer I asked could they tell where it came from and they rang again to tell me it was my state pension.

[rumak]

On 1/6/2019 at 10:51 AM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

It's boggling to me that Thai Immigration often fails to provide their own official English translations of their own rules. I mean, apart from the Thai IOs enforcing them, it's the often English speaking or at least understanding foreigners who have to follow them. And that would be made a lot easier and clearer for a lot of folks if Immigration provided their own rules in English!

 

I have written many things on this forum ( in grammatically correct ENGLISH) that i believe were perfectly clear to an intelligent English speaking foreigner.   Boy,  was I mistaken.

Save your sarcastic comments against the Rumakovich family please.

Edited January 7, 2019 by rumak

[Pattaya46]

10 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

// Now the Thai authorities appear to be demanding that all of my pensions ( in my case) are brought into Thailand !!

No. Monthly transfers of 65k will be enough.

Very probably they just want to see this money to come in Thailand (in absence of Embassy Letter), and you certainly don't have to send all your pensions or all your incomes in Thailand, neither have to ask for your pensions to be paid directly in Thailand.

A periodic transfer of 65k Baht from your foreign account probably will be the easiest way.

[SooKee]

27 minutes ago, tigerbalm said:

Yes you are quite correct, i made a mistake of thinking that the DUMMY BRANCH was showing on the Bank book but just looking at it now it shows the money coming in as MCL07416  (What ever that means) and not DUMMY BRANCH as i incorrectly said.

So i assume if the MCL07416 indicates a international transfer then all is Ok to take the book to the immigration office next time i renew my Extension of stay

I would have a problem if i had to show Bank statements as they do show the Dummy Branch next to the deposit, but i am pretty sure they don't accept bank statements.

Apologies for my not paying attention

Regards

TB

 

The main problem is the future, not so much what is showing for past transfers.  What folks will need to show is for however many months they need to prove in 2020 (it has been suggested that if you apply in Aug 2020 it will only be 8 months, given it's the first year of the new regs) that funds have come from overseas.  So it's getting everything sorted out before you commence your 'qualifying transfers'.

 

MCL07416 is not an international transfer code, international codes start only with TFN.  MCL seems to be some kind of nebulous 'Smart Transfer' Code.  If you request a Kasikorn statement from within the app it will be emailed to you along with a copy of the transaction codes.

 

The key part of the extension submission will be the letter the bank produces in support of the new regs, and in that regard they need to be able to say something along the lines of 'you transferred X amounts on x dates from outside Thailand'.  Outside Thailand is the key issue and, regardless of whatever code they use or whatever shows in bank books / statements / online banking, unless Kasikorn can see from their own systems that EVERY transfer received from TW emanated from overseas it's likely to be a problem.  IMO it won't matter what the code is, the IO will only scan the bank book to ensure the funds tally with what the bank is saying in the letter (in case someone has a tame / bent bank official who just provides the letter for a fee), they won't have the time or inclination to cross check dozens of different bank codes unless maybe they start to investigate an individual due to a perceived problem.  So THAT is the issue, what do Kasikorn records (such as a credit advice / receipt) show for 'Dummy Branch' / MCL coded transfer as it's only those that are a concern.

 

Easiest thing is to request a full credit advice / receipt in respect of your last 'Dummy Branch' transaction and see what it says.  If that audit trail stops at Bangkok Bank, then maybe see what the branch can suggest.  Still early days for the banks with this news though I suspect.

Edited January 7, 2019 by SooKee

[Derek B]

On 1/6/2019 at 9:47 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

No change to the money in the bank

Where do you read that?

 

[Pattaya46]

6 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

Why are they messing us around again.  Are they not satisfied with the money that they suck out of us. Greed seems to be a Thai disease.

They are not messing you around again;

They are helping you to stay despite the decision of your embassy.

[Pattaya46]

1 minute ago, Derek B said:

On 1/6/2019 at 9:47 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

No change to the money in the bank

Where do you read that?

Where do you read any change ?

[mogandave]

Where do you read any change ?

Page 37

[geoffbezoz]

8 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

No. Monthly transfers of 65k will be enough.

Very probably they just want to see this money to come in Thailand (in absence of Embassy Letter), and you certainly don't have to send all your pensions or all your incomes in Thailand, neither have to ask for your pensions to be paid directly in Thailand.

A periodic transfer of 65k Baht from your foreign account probably will be the easiest way.

you didn't read my post thoroughly.

[wobalt]

How would they verify easily?

With a computer. The pension in GB is not paid via a government agency as in Germany


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[OJAS]

7 minutes ago, rumak said:

I have written many things on this forum ( in grammatically correct ENGLISH) that i believe were perfectly clear to an intelligent English speaking foreigner.   Boy,  was I mistaken.

Save your sarcastic comments against the Rumakovich family please.

So in your view, then, we should be singing the praises of the Immigration Bureau to the highest heavens for not providing official English translations of their various diktats, should we?