CONFIRMED: Here is exactly what’s needed for retirement & marriage extensions (income method) from 2019

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

The only time anyone would have to send their entire income, would be if their entire income were only ฿65K per month.

Everyone else would have to send only a portion. 

And there is no requirement to send any money back.

You are confused.

Not confused at all.  Those who have 65K in excess of their passport-country expenses and wish to spend that full amount in Thailand every month can accomplish qualifying for the new system fairly easily.  Those with less than this "to spare" are those who qualified before easily, but do not now, absent the workarounds I alluded to.

 

29 minutes ago, farangx said:

The money they spent every month should still be the same, how they process that may be in a different order.  The extra costs could be 30 to 60 bucks a month for transferring the money to and from. Other than that there is practically no change.

If taxes are deducted at the source, they may also need a buffer-amount to make it work.  But, yes, agreed - and this is what I suggest to those who qualify in theory, but now believe they are in an impossible (or "agent only") situation - learn how to make xfers both ways.

 

29 minutes ago, farangx said:

Wait a minute Jack, are you saying they lied about the money they had previously? ????

No - of the legit applicants, I am saying they have and had the 65K/mo required total income, but not 65K in their monthly budget for transferring to Thailand. 

 

As another example, in addition to my replies, above:
Many with retirement-extensions don't even live here all year - but IOs will hassle and/or deny them at the airport for using Tourist Visas to stay here "too long" (undefined, not a legal reason for denial, but it doesn't matter what the law says).  Meanwhile, new immigration rules demand they transfer 65K/mo here, every month, even in months when they are not in Thailand. 

In these cases, they may need to send most/all of the 65K Baht /mo back, just to have money to spend in their passport-country during those months.

Edited January 13, 2019 by JackThompson

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, orchidfan said:

So will they accept a sworn income affidavit stamped /notarised by an Embassy/consulate of your nationality from another country...like Singapore, Hong Kong, etc?

It doesn't specify "which" Embassy or consulate must issue this document? ?ie. That it must be your embassy in Thailand!

I don't think they mentioned it had to be from your home country because they assumed it would only be from your home country.

I don't think a embassy or official consulate for another country would issue one. I understand there is a honorary consulate (Austria I think) in  Pattaya that will do them for those from some other European countries.

[mogandave]

No - of the legit applicants, I am saying they have and had the 65K/mo required total income, but not 65K in their monthly budget for transferring to Thailand. 
 
As another example, in addition to my replies, above:
Many with retirement-extensions don't even live year all year - but IOs will hassle and/or deny them at the airport for using Tourist Visas to stay here "too long" (undefined, not a legal reason for denial, but it doesn't matter what the law says).  Meanwhile, new immigration rules demand they transfer 65K/mo here, every month, even in months when they are not in Thailand. 

In these cases, they may need to send most/all of the 65K Baht /mo back, just to have money to spend in their passport-country during those months.

Please explain the spending requirement.

[orchidfan]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I don't think they mentioned it had to be from your home country because they assumed it would only be from your home country.

I don't think a embassy or official consulate for another country would issue one. I understand there is a honorary consulate (Austria I think) in  Pattaya that will do them for those from some other European countries.

I have Permanent Residence status in Hong Kong (and Australian passport) and could approach the Australia Embassy there to sign and stamp a stat dec which I submit. ...the subject or content of which could be anything.

I have done it before for other legal matters. They are just verifying my signature?

[mogandave]

I have Permanent Residence status in Hong Kong (and Australian passport) and could approach the Australia Embassy there to sign and stamp a stat dec which I submit. ...the subject or content of which could be anything.
I have done it before for other legal matters. They are just verifying my signature?

It will work.

[JackThompson]

19 minutes ago, orchidfan said:

I notice that the new directive mentions "or income verification by embassy or consular" (para-phrased)

So will they accept a sworn income affidavit stamped /notarised by an Embassy/consulate of your nationality from another country...like Singapore, Hong Kong, etc?

It doesn't specify "which" Embassy or consulate must issue this document? ?ie. That it must be your embassy in Thailand!

Immigration would not accept it, almost certainly. 

One way to shoot you down, would be do demand the Thai MFA certify the singature of the consular official, which they could not do, because they only certify the sigs of consular officials at embassies operating in Thailand (to my knowledge).

But, one can use an affidavit from your passport-country consulate in another country to apply for a Visa from a Thai consulate in that country.

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Please explain the spending requirement.

It is a transfer requirement.  If not spending all transferred, one must arrange transfers back where it just came from, if that money is needed for expenditures in another country (taxes, investment, etc).

Edited January 13, 2019 by JackThompson

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, mogandave said:

It will work.

They will most likely issue the Affidavit  at any Embassy but will Thai Immigration accept an Embassy Affidavit from another country.

[mogandave]

They will most likely issue the Affidavit  at any Embassy but will Thai Immigration accept an Embassy Affidavit from another country.

Try it.

Worst case you have to use an agent.

[jimn]

13 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Not confused at all.  Those who have 65K in excess of their passport-country expenses and wish to spend that full amount in Thailand every month can accomplish qualifying for the new system fairly easily.  Those with less than this "to spare" are those who qualified before easily, but do not now, absent the workarounds I alluded to.

 

If taxes are deducted at the source, they may also need a buffer-amount to make it work.  But, yes, agreed - and this is what I suggest to those who qualify in theory, but now believe they are in an impossible (or "agent only") situation - learn how to make xfers both ways.

 

No - of the legit applicants, I am saying they have and had the 65K/mo required total income, but not 65K in their monthly budget for transferring to Thailand. 

 

As another example, in addition to my replies, above:
Many with retirement-extensions don't even live year all year - but IOs will hassle and/or deny them at the airport for using Tourist Visas to stay here "too long" (undefined, not a legal reason for denial, but it doesn't matter what the law says).  Meanwhile, new immigration rules demand they transfer 65K/mo here, every month, even in months when they are not in Thailand. 

In these cases, they may need to send most/all of the 65K Baht /mo back, just to have money to spend in their passport-country during those months.

 Another thing that keeps getting missed is the fact that the British Embassy letter I received took income as Gross every month before tax, so I easily qualified. Now its 65k net that you have to deposit monthly and this causes a problem. Those of you who are non Brits may not realise the absolutely pathetic exchange rate to the £££ nowadays. Why on earth would I transfer 65k a month into Thailand at a poor rate and send it back again at an even worse rate and have to pay for the service. Crazy no way will I do that, especially when I am not always in Thailand. The income method will work for those who can afford it, but those where its touch and go it wont.

[roobaa01]

23 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I don't think they mentioned it had to be from your home country because they assumed it would only be from your home country.

I don't think a embassy or official consulate for another country would issue one. I understand there is a honorary consulate (Austria I think) in  Pattaya that will do them for those from some other European countries.

correct , the honorable mr.hofer issues letters for austria and germany.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[mogandave]

It is a transfer requirement.  If not spending all transferred, one must arrange transfers back where it just came from, if that money is needed for expenditures in another country (taxes, investment, etc).

Finally.

And if you don’t need it in you don’t have to send it back.

You can let it pile up until you get 800k and stop sending money altogether.

[mogandave]

 Another thing that keeps getting missed is the fact that the British Embassy letter I received took income as Gross every month before tax, so I easily qualified. Now its 65k net that you have to deposit monthly and this causes a problem. Those of you who are non Brits may not realise the absolutely pathetic exchange rate to the £££ nowadays. Why on earth would I transfer 65k a month into Thailand at a poor rate and send it back again at an even worse rate and have to pay for the service. Crazy no way will I do that, especially when I am not always in Thailand. The income method will work for those who can afford it, but those where its touch and go it wont.

Clearly you have not been following the thread if you are claiming the net versus gross has not been discussed.

It has been discussed any number of times.

To be clear, Thai immigration does not care what your income is. They only care that you transfer 65k per month to your Thai account.

[JLCrab]

58 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

they may need to send most/all of the 65K Baht /mo back,

As of today there are no explicit restrictions on sending some or all of the money back ex-Thailand and then sending the (same) money again back to Thailand.

 

That may not always be the case.

[orchidfan]

9 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Clearly you have not been following the thread if you are claiming the net versus gross has not been discussed.

It has been discussed any number of times.

To be clear, Thai immigration does not care what your income is. They only care that you transfer 65k per month to your Thai account.

As with other posters here...mymy Australian pension, paid into my Australian bank account (pension trustees rules) is marginal for the 40k per month..but to transfer it with exchange rates and fees to my Thai bank account could possibly fall short of the mark.

Hence an Australian Embassy (HK? ) confirming my monthly pension by way of a legal stat dec is far safer.

But not sure they will accept it.

It is a legal document and notarised by an Australian Consular officer  (albeit in HK).

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Under the new rules, they need to send the full-amount here, then some of it back to cover their passport-country expenses.

Well not really. Can they not receive all pensions in their passport country (presuming they still have banking facilities) and arrange a monthly transfer of 65k to Thailand to support extensions?

[jimn]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

Clearly you have not been following the thread if you are claiming the net versus gross has not been discussed.

It has been discussed any number of times.

To be clear, Thai immigration does not care what your income is. They only care that you transfer 65k per month to your Thai account.

 

Fair enough I might have missed it being discussed in earlier discussions. I still cannot see how the new requirements are going to actually work in practice. There are going to be so many issues going forward.

Namely,

(1) Some of the older ex pats who are just not capable of getting their heads round exactly what is required.

(2) Will people be able to open a bank account easily in Thailand.

(3) What counts as an international transfer of 65k? Swift, ACH, Transferwise into a bank other than Bangkok Bank

(4) What documents will be required from the bank to give immigration to prove the transfers.

(5) Will different Immigration Offices interpret the policy the same

(6) Will they insist on 12 months of deposits even though the new directive only came in last week

(7) Will they honour the 6 months validty of the income letters.

(8) What about the many many people who are not Thai Visa/other forum members and are completely unaware of the new requirements.

[JLCrab]

10 minutes ago, jimn said:

I still cannot see how the new requirements are going to actually work in practice.

Neither can anyone else because, as of yet, they have not actually worked in practice.

Edited January 13, 2019 by JLCrab

[Tanoshi]

10 minutes ago, jimn said:

Fair enough I might have missed it being discussed in earlier discussions. I still cannot see how the new requirements are going to actually work in practice. There are going to be so many issues going forward.

Namely,

(1) Some of the older ex pats who are just not capable of getting their heads round exactly what is required.

(2) Will people be able to open a bank account easily in Thailand.

(3) What counts as an international transfer of 65k? Swift, ACH, Transferwise into a bank other than Bangkok Bank

(4) What documents will be required from the bank to give immigration to prove the transfers.

(5) Will different Immigration Offices interpret the policy the same

(6) Will they insist on 12 months of deposits even though the new directive only came in last week

(7) Will they honour the 6 months validty of the income letters.

(8) What about the many many people who are not Thai Visa/other forum members and are completely unaware of the new requirements.

Clearly you haven't read, or understood the new order, otherwise questions 4,5,6 and 7 are already answered.

 

You missed the more senior expats who don't have internet banking, or own, or can use a PC.

Payments can always be made direct into your Thai account by your Pension providers, (well at least from the UK) at no extra cost, you just have to contact them and give them the details. 

[Thaidream]

The most worrisome is the different interpretation some offices use for extensions.   When I go for next extension I will bring the Police Order-written in Thai and English.  Hopefully, -nothing happens that will force the Officer and myself to have a conversation that I do not want to have.  As always keep smiling and indicate you do not understand while pointing to the section in Thai that shows you do understand.

 

Also, if using the Embassy letter- I will have in hand the Police Order indicating it is acceptable for 6 months.

 

In addition- my added proof of pensions and foreign bank statement as backup which I always carry and have had to show before.

 

We should be getting reports into the forum from people who have gone in for their extensions and the results. They hopefully will mention the office used and what documents were shown/

 

As in all things time and experience will tell us what to expect.

[jimn]

21 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Clearly you haven't read, or understood the new order, otherwise questions 4,5,6 and 7 are already answered.

 

You missed the more senior expats who don't have internet banking, or own, or can use a PC.

Payments can always be made direct into your Thai account by your Pension providers, (well at least from the UK) at no extra cost, you just have to contact them and give them the details. 

With respect, yes of course I have read and understood the new order. You must know as well as I do that they make up the rules as they go along over here. I am just highlighting issues that will occur, just because its in the new police order, doesn't mean that it will be adhered too. As I have said before, why on earth would I get my company pension paid into my Thai bank. I am not here 12 months of the year. Also UK state pensions are not index linked if you get it paid into an account abroad. 

I agree totally with your point about the more senior expats who don't have internet banking, or own, or can use a PC.

Again I was just highlighting the issues not trying to be a no it all, like some posters on here think they are.

[JLCrab]

19 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

When I go for next extension I will bring the Police Order-written in Thai and English

I will have 3 in-office 90 day reports before my next extension so hopefully I can get a idea what's what before it's crunch time.

[Pattaya46]

9 minutes ago, jimn said:

You must know as well as I do that they make up the rules as they go along over here. I am just highlighting issues that will occur, just because its in the new police order, doesn't mean that it will be adhered too. 

Why? Which rules were not adhered in previous Police Order? 

 

9 minutes ago, jimn said:

As I have said before, why on earth would I get my company pension paid into my Thai bank.

You don't have too. It's not required.

You can continue to be paid in your home country and just need to send 65k.

[Thaidream]

5 minutes ago, Ned said:

t's not yet required......but there's a lot of talk out there, at least in CM that it will be.

Impossible.  Not everyone can get their pension direct deposited because the pension provider refuses to do it.  In addition- not everyone gets a pension- many people get their income from investments from all over the World.  The retirement age for the Visa/Extension of stay is age 50. Most people at this age are too young for a pension.

I would be very surprised at this being required.

[kraftyhl]

On the income part, pre-2019 you only had to show income, period. Now that income, at least 65,000 THB/month (which does not really make sense because it can vary) or less if offset by Thai bank balances, has to be certified by the Thai bank that it was deposited here in Thailand. This is a big difference. Perhaps you don't want to deposit all of it. Well, too bad. 

 

[DogNo1]

 Sam6345:  Thank you very much for sending the instructions about how to send a wire transfer from Fidelity without the Medallion Signature Guarantee.  I have already wired the money using the USAA Bank this month for a charge of $45.00.  I'll try to transfer from Fidelity next month.

[farangx]

 

19 minutes ago, kraftyhl said:

On the income part, pre-2019 you only had to show income, period. Now that income, at least 65,000 THB/month (which does not really make sense because it can vary) or less if offset by Thai bank balances, has to be certified by the Thai bank that it was deposited here in Thailand. This is a big difference. Perhaps you don't want to deposit all of it. Well, too bad. 

 

Specifically the money must be transferred monthly from overseas into your Thai bank account in Thailand.

 

[DrJack54]

28 minutes ago, DogNo1 said:

 Sam6345:  Thank you very much for sending the instructions about how to send a wire transfer from Fidelity without the Medallion Signature Guarantee.  I have already wired the money using the USAA Bank this month for a charge of $45.00.  I'll try to transfer from Fidelity next month.

Am I missing something. $45x12= $540 per annum. Plus poor exchange rate. 

You happy with that?

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Impossible.  Not everyone can get their pension direct deposited because the pension provider refuses to do it.

Name one!

[Tanoshi]

5 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Yes, but the statements are already available.

 

Only if you have online banking facilities, otherwise the bank has to print them and it's chargeable.