CONFIRMED: Here is exactly what’s needed for retirement & marriage extensions (income method) from 2019

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Why would anyone not have online banking?

A lot of expats don't own and/or can't use a PC, let alone have a printer.

 

4 minutes ago, mogandave said:

As long as you keep it up to date, passbook is a statement.

The new order specifically states bank statements, not passbook as previously.

A passbook is not a statement.

[D3030]

38 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Name one!

Into a Thai bank?  One would be retired U.S. military pay..  For some reason Thailand is not on the list for international direct deposit..

[ubonjoe]

This topic has gotten shorter again after removing several off topic, bickering, baiting and etc posts.

A lot of them were related interest rates and such that is off topic. If you want to discuss interest rates please do it on the business and banking forum.

[Henryford]

16 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Clearly you haven't read, or understood the new order, otherwise questions 4,5,6 and 7 are already answered.

 

You missed the more senior expats who don't have internet banking, or own, or can use a PC.

Payments can always be made direct into your Thai account by your Pension providers, (well at least from the UK) at no extra cost, you just have to contact them and give them the details.  

Sorry i maybe missed it but question 4. Has it been made clear clear what documents the bank needs to give to immigration? Is it the bank book with a foreign transfer code. Is it a special letter saying 65k was transferred each month from outside Thailand? What form does this letter take. Have the banks agreed to this?

Edited January 14, 2019 by Henryford

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Sorry i maybe missed it but question 4. Has it been made clear clear what documents the bank needs to give to immigration? Is it the bank book with a foreign transfer code. Is it a special letter saying 65k was transferred each month from outside Thailand? What form does this letter take. Have the banks agreed to this?

Not really, it will greatly depend on your IO exactly what they will except.

For example, for 2.18 (marriage) it states an average of 40K per month, (480K per annum) which I interpret as could be 30K x 8 and 60K x 4, totalling 480K. Some expats receive quarterly pension payments.

For 2.22 (Retirement), the word 'average' isn't mentioned, it's 65K per month.

It also states a letter and passbook for acceptable documents, but then in 'procedures', it clearly states 'bank statements'.

 

Immigration have been discussing with the banks the form and details should be included in their Income letters.

[mogandave]

The new order specifically states bank statements, not passbook as previously.
A passbook is not a statement.

The translation of the new order says statement, not the new order. I have no idea what is actually required.

In any event, as you have to get a letter from the bank anyway, you should be able to get whatever statements are needed at the same time.

I would bet the bank letter and updated passbook is all that will be required, but I’m not going to get caught up worrying about it either way.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Not really, it will greatly depend on your IO exactly what they will except.

For example, for 2.18 (marriage) it states an average of 40K per month, (480K per annum) which I interpret as could be 30K x 8 and 60K x 4, totalling 480K. Some expats receive quarterly pension payments.

For 2.22 (Retirement), the word 'average' isn't mentioned, it's 65K per month.

It also states a letter and passbook for acceptable documents, but then in 'procedures', it clearly states 'bank statements'.

 

Immigration have been discussing with the banks the form and details should be included in their Income letters.

I would think average "per month" would mean you are dealing with the number 12 as there are 12 months in a year.  You would not use 8 or 4, like in 8 or 4 payments over a year to calculate the average per month over a year.   

 

Appears they are still looking for a "fairly steady, monthly" income versus sporadic income (big swings and time gaps) so a game can't be played of (and just for an example), "Well, I did one transfer of Bt480K over the last 12 months which if divided by 12 equals Bt40K per month."  But for 11 of those 12 months the person could have been penniless and maybe he just got the Bt480K from a loan shark which was quickly repaid with interest putting the person back into penniless status.

 

But if you did have monthly income "each month" varying somewhat below and above 40K and then that would be a valid "average per month."     12 months of income  added up and then divided by 12.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Pib

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Not really, it will greatly depend on your IO exactly what they will except.

For example, for 2.18 (marriage) it states an average of 40K per month, (480K per annum) which I interpret as could be 30K x 8 and 60K x 4, totalling 480K. Some expats receive quarterly pension payments.

For 2.22 (Retirement), the word 'average' isn't mentioned, it's 65K per month.

It also states a letter and passbook for acceptable documents, but then in 'procedures', it clearly states 'bank statements'.

 

Immigration have been discussing with the banks the form and details should be included in their Income letters.

"Immigration have been discussing with the banks the form and details should be included in their Income letters."

 

I hope you're right re. this!

[farangx]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Not really, it will greatly depend on your IO exactly what they will except.

For example, for 2.18 (marriage) it states an average of 40K per month, (480K per annum) which I interpret as could be 30K x 8 and 60K x 4, totalling 480K. Some expats receive quarterly pension payments.

For 2.22 (Retirement), the word 'average' isn't mentioned, it's 65K per month.

It also states a letter and passbook for acceptable documents, but then in 'procedures', it clearly states 'bank statements'.

 

Immigration have been discussing with the banks the form and details should be included in their Income letters.

Whether you are paid bimonthly, quarterly or half yearly, you are required to transfer them monthly from overseas.  That is you split these bulk payments into parts and you transfer 1 part or parts(?) from overseas monthly. 

 

Presently when you get a bank letter for money seasoning, the bank gives you a letter accompanied by statements, ie. you get a letter plus statements when you pay for this service. 

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by farangx
add more words for clarity, side effects include confusion.

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Immigration have been discussing with the banks the form and details should be included in their Income letters."

 

I hope you're right re. this!

It was reported in one of Thai Visa topics.

[sqwakvfr]

I am a State of California retiree and my pay can only be direct deposited into an American Bank account.  If I opt out then they would have to send me a paper check to Thailand through USPS and Thai Post.  I guess everything will be fine and I can just go to my Thai Bank and deposit my check every month? .  I am also with USAA and the transfer fee is $45.  I hesitate to use a external party to make international transfers because my account(s) have been hacked while I was outside of the US and it was in a word a “Hassle” to straighten things out.  

[holy cow cm]

3 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

The translation of the new order says statement, not the new order. I have no idea what is actually required.

In any event, as you have to get a letter from the bank anyway, you should be able to get whatever statements are needed at the same time.

I would bet the bank letter and updated passbook is all that will be required, but I’m not going to get caught up worrying about it either way.

 

I tend to agree with you. Stamped bank letter, updated passbook and a bank stamped 12 month bank balance statement print out to back up the passbook. Nothing else should be needed as proof is there already. 

[mogandave]

I am a State of California retiree and my pay can only be direct deposited into an American Bank account.  If I opt out then they would have to send me a paper check to Thailand through USPS and Thai Post.  I guess everything will be fine and I can just go to my Thai Bank and deposit my check every month? .  I am also with USAA and the transfer fee is $45.  I hesitate to use a external party to make international transfers because my account(s) have been hacked while I was outside of the US and it was in a word a “Hassle” to straighten things out.  

Been a while since I cashed one, but as I remember, international check cashing fees are pretty high ($35?) and take about 30 days to clear.

[Sheryl]

I am a State of California retiree and my pay can only be direct deposited into an American Bank account.  If I opt out then they would have to send me a paper check to Thailand through USPS and Thai Post.  I guess everything will be fine and I can just go to my Thai Bank and deposit my check every month? .  I am also with USAA and the transfer fee is $45.  I hesitate to use a external party to make international transfers because my account(s) have been hacked while I was outside of the US and it was in a word a “Hassle” to straighten things out.  

It will take forever to clear.

You really are better off with depositing in US then transfer.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Sheryl]

 

The translation of the new order says statement, not the new order. I have no idea what is actually required.

 

In any event, as you have to get a letter from the bank anyway, you should be able to get whatever statements are needed at the same time.

 

I would bet the bank letter and updated passbook is all that will be required, but I’m not going to get caught up worrying about it either way.

Indeed. "Statement" could simply mean so.ething stated by the bank, as in a letter. In fact that was what I assumed it meant.

 

I really cannot envision IOs wading through the different formats and codes of bank statements. Even if you have one I suspect many will want it spelled out in simple thai by the bank.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, farangx said:

Whether you are paid bimonthly, quarterly or half yearly, you are required to transfer them monthly from overseas.  That is you split these bulk payments into parts and you transfer 1 part or parts(?) from overseas monthly. 

The issue is some expats live month to month, relying on their pensions. Some have no Savings.

 

The UK state pension at todays exchange rate varies between 22,500 - 26,500 baht, paid every 4 weeks (not monthly)

To meet the min financial requirement (40K) if a family member, they rely on private or company pensions to make up the difference. Some of these are only paid quarterly.

If you don't have Savings to cover the monthly difference between 25K pension and the 40K monthly requirement, then you have little choice than to transfer what you can for 2 months, then the remainder in the 3rd month.

 

I agree with Pib, that the common sense and logical means to test an individuals monthly income would be for the bank letter to state the overseas deposits for the given period, then Immigration divide it by 12.

 

For 2019, the period could vary from 6 - 12 months, so Immigration would divide from Jan 19, up to the date of renewing your extension.

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Indeed. "Statement" could simply mean so.ething stated by the bank, as in a letter. In fact that was what I assumed it meant.

I really cannot envision IOs wading through the different formats and codes of bank statements. Even if you have one I suspect many will want it spelled out in simple English by the bank.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

And I thought it meant a list of transactions as seen in a frequently updated passbook. If one gets the bank to print one off, or does it at home, hopefully it isn't 50 pages long, and they would be pleased if I highlighted 12 deposits from overseas in different months with a nice marker pen. 

[Mapguy]

18 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I am a State of California retiree and my pay can only be direct deposited into an American Bank account.  If I opt out then they would have to send me a paper check to Thailand through USPS and Thai Post.  I guess everything will be fine and I can just go to my Thai Bank and deposit my check every month? .  I am also with USAA and the transfer fee is $45.  I hesitate to use a external party to make international transfers because my account(s) have been hacked while I was outside of the US and it was in a word a “Hassle” to straighten things out.  

You are not up to date with what USAA and many, many other banks in the USA and many other countries can do with no service charge in making transfers! Check with your banker!!

[damascase]

5 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

........

Immigration have been discussing with the banks the form and details should be included in their Income letters.

Confusing terminology: the banks are NOT going to issue ‘income letters’.

[SwissTony77]

Hello all, sorry if this has already been covered in the 76 pages to date (i've read around 25 of them and cannot find the answer).

My situation. I've had an extension of stay based on marriage for the past 3 years, always using 400k in the bank each year to renew. I had planned to use the income method this year prior to the changes. I've put 400k in the bank as a fall back but that will leave me in the final few days prior to the renewal date and i'd prefer not to leave it to the last minute if possible.

I am employed in Singapore (Employment pass holder) where i receive a monthly salary and pay tax. I've transferred regularly, perhaps not each month but way over the 40k per month average for the past 12 months.

Where would i stand, can I use bank statements showing the international transfer and payslips confirming my salary from my Singapore job?

The reason for my doubt is that the translated police order seems to indicate that for extensions via marriage require pay stubs and tax records - to me indicating they only consider people employed and paying tax in Thailand. Appreciate any experiences in similar situation as mine.

Thanks, Tony

[farangx]

22 minutes ago, SwissTony77 said:

Hello all, sorry if this has already been covered in the 76 pages to date (i've read around 25 of them and cannot find the answer).

My situation. I've had an extension of stay based on marriage for the past 3 years, always using 400k in the bank each year to renew. I had planned to use the income method this year prior to the changes.

This 400K or 800K method is unchanged.

 

23 minutes ago, SwissTony77 said:

I am employed in Singapore (Employment pass holder) where i receive a monthly salary and pay tax. I've transferred regularly, perhaps not each month but way over the 40k per month average for the past 12 months.

Yours is a very simple case. You should be good to go.  But the 400K is much easier and problem free.

 

[likerdup1]

On 1/7/2019 at 4:32 PM, khwaibah said:

For confirmation and assistance contact your local agent.????

 

I'll never use an agent. Why pay somebody 15 or 30k Baht for something you can do yourself with a little reading and foot work. DIY all the way every time!

[farangx]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

The issue is some expats live month to month, relying on their pensions. Some have no Savings.

 

The UK state pension at todays exchange rate varies between 22,500 - 26,500 baht, paid every 4 weeks (not monthly)

To meet the min financial requirement (40K) if a family member, they rely on private or company pensions to make up the difference. Some of these are only paid quarterly.

If you don't have Savings to cover the monthly difference between 25K pension and the 40K monthly requirement, then you have little choice than to transfer what you can for 2 months, then the remainder in the 3rd month.

 

Immigration is not interested in exchange rates.  The amounts are spelt out in baht.  They are also not interested in your savings overseas.

 

You could be paid weekly or fortnightly but why would that be of interest to TI when all that is ask is you transfer income from overseas every month. How you manage those numbers is of no concern to anybody. 

 

 

[likerdup1]

20 hours ago, kraftyhl said:

On the income part, pre-2019 you only had to show income, period. Now that income, at least 65,000 THB/month (which does not really make sense because it can vary) or less if offset by Thai bank balances, has to be certified by the Thai bank that it was deposited here in Thailand. This is a big difference. Perhaps you don't want to deposit all of it. Well, too bad. 

 

This is confusing. Deposited here in Thailand? No!! Deposited TO a bank in Thailand FROM outside of Thailand, presumably overseas (as stated in the police order)

[elviajero]

27 minutes ago, likerdup1 said:

20 hours ago, kraftyhl said:

On the income part, pre-2019 you only had to show income, period. Now that income, at least 65,000 THB/month (which does not really make sense because it can vary) or less if offset by Thai bank balances, has to be certified by the Thai bank that it was deposited here in Thailand. This is a big difference. Perhaps you don't want to deposit all of it. Well, too bad. 

This is confusing. Deposited here in Thailand? No!! Deposited TO a bank in Thailand FROM outside of Thailand, presumably overseas (as stated in the police order)

You’re correct. It must be transferred from abroad to a Thai bank. Simply depositing funds in the Thai bank does not qualify.

[Pib]

Numerous folks feel a Transferwise transfer which sometimes doesn't get coded as an international transfer by your Thai bank (depending on which Thai partner bank Transferwise uses for the final leg of the transfer) OR  an ATM withdrawal using your foreign card should qualify as an international transfer.   

 

I will not argue the money originated from outside of Thailand but the problem occurs is the "chain of coding recognized by Thai banks has been broken" when the Transferwise transfer got coded as a local transfer for the final leg of it's trek or when you deposited the ATM withdrawn money into your Thai bank account where once again it coded as any other local deposit.  The final coding on the Thai bank account is "not" international transfer coding....it's just coding reflecting a local transfer/deposit.

 

With that coding chain broken it opens up plenty of ways a person can fake their income flow into Thailand, possibility of fraudulent transfer docs like a simple Transferwise PDF receipt or faded ATM slips, etc.   Plus this would require Thai Immigration to review these additional receipts, try to determine if they are real, and listen to a person swear the docs are legit---and probably get into some heated discussions sometimes.   

 

I have no doubt, especially during the 2019 period, that "some" immigration officers will accept such receipts/slips to go along with Thai bank docs...give the applicant a benefit of a doubt.  And "other" immigration officers will follow the wording of their police immigration order in requiring Thai bank docs to prove income flow---the KISS principle like it or not.  

 

[JLCrab]

8 minutes ago, Pib said:

With that coding chain broken it opens up plenty of ways a person can fake their income flow into Thailand, possibility of fraudulent transfer docs like a simple Transferwise PDF receipt or faded ATM slips, etc. 

Oh no! Who would ever think of doing such a thing?

[mogandave]

Numerous folks feel a Transferwise transfer which sometimes doesn't get coded as an international transfer by your Thai bank (depending on which Thai partner bank Transferwise uses for the final leg of the transfer) OR  an ATM withdrawal using your foreign card should qualify as an international transfer.   
 
I will not argue the money originated from outside of Thailand but the problem occurs is the "chain of coding recognized by Thai banks has been broken" when the Transferwise transfer got coded as a local transfer for the final leg of it's trek or when you deposited the ATM withdrawn money into your Thai bank account where once again it coded as any other local deposit.  The final coding on the Thai bank account is "not" international transfer coding....it's just coding reflecting a local transfer/deposit.
 
With that coding chain broken it opens up plenty of ways a person can fake their income flow into Thailand, possibility of fraudulent transfer docs like a simple Transferwise PDF receipt or faded ATM slips, etc.   Plus this would require Thai Immigration to review these additional receipts, try to determine if they are real, and listen to a person swear the docs are legit---and probably get into some heated discussions sometimes.   
 
I have no doubt, especially during the 2019 period, that "some" immigration officers will accept such receipts/slips to go along with Thai bank docs...give the applicant a benefit of a doubt.  And "other" immigration officers will follow the wording of their police immigration order in requiring Thai bank docs to prove income flow---the KISS principle like it or not.  
 

Assuming the banks will provide confirmation letters, I don’t imagine the coding on individual transfers will be significant.

The bank knows TransferWise transfers come from TransferWise, which as far as I can tell do not facilitate transfers originating in Thailand.

I think the safe bet is to make swift transfers for the time being, but ultimately TW and others will be acceptable.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, SwissTony77 said:

Hello all, sorry if this has already been covered in the 76 pages to date (i've read around 25 of them and cannot find the answer).

My situation. I've had an extension of stay based on marriage for the past 3 years, always using 400k in the bank each year to renew. I had planned to use the income method this year prior to the changes. I've put 400k in the bank as a fall back but that will leave me in the final few days prior to the renewal date and i'd prefer not to leave it to the last minute if possible.

I am employed in Singapore (Employment pass holder) where i receive a monthly salary and pay tax. I've transferred regularly, perhaps not each month but way over the 40k per month average for the past 12 months.

Where would i stand, can I use bank statements showing the international transfer and payslips confirming my salary from my Singapore job?

The reason for my doubt is that the translated police order seems to indicate that for extensions via marriage require pay stubs and tax records - to me indicating they only consider people employed and paying tax in Thailand. Appreciate any experiences in similar situation as mine.

Thanks, Tony

They do not expect someone wanting permission to be live full time in the country to be working unless working in Thailand. So you cannot use your pay stubs or tax records to prove your income in the way someone working in Thailand can.

 

If you are not using an embassy letter you have to prove your income with transfers to Thailand from abroad. As long as you’ve made transfers for the few months before renewal you should, this year, be able to extend using income. You would need a letter from your Thai bank confirming the international transfers and an updated bank passbook showing the transfers being received.

 

If you haven’t made transfers each month leading to the renewal you could apply for a 60 day extension giving more time to get the transfers sorted, and then apply for the 1 year extension at the end of the 60 day extension.

 

Using the 400K you have in the bank (if possible) would probably be the easiest option this year. Then transfer to your account every month so you can use the income method next year.

[farangx]

49 minutes ago, Pib said:

Numerous folks feel a Transferwise transfer which sometimes doesn't get coded as an international transfer by your Thai bank (depending on which Thai partner bank Transferwise uses for the final leg of the transfer) OR  an ATM withdrawal using your foreign card should qualify as an international transfer.   

 

I will not argue the money originated from outside of Thailand but the problem occurs is the "chain of coding recognized by Thai banks has been broken" when the Transferwise transfer got coded as a local transfer for the final leg of it's trek or when you deposited the ATM withdrawn money into your Thai bank account where once again it coded as any other local deposit.  The final coding on the Thai bank account is "not" international transfer coding....it's just coding reflecting a local transfer/deposit.

 

Transferwise already said the money did not come from overseas.  If the bank says otherwise, it would be quite safe to have your money laundered with them .... ????