Trump storms out of talks on shutdown, bemoans 'total waste of time'

[joecoolfrog]

8 hours ago, Berkshire said:

If all you're going to do is parrot Trump's false talking points, you're going to sound really silly.  Heck, even Fox News fact-checked Trump's address about the wall and found it to be mostly lies....

 

[And on Fox, anchor Shepard Smith did not let the president get away with his lies.]

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-gets-instant-fact-check-from-fox-news-shepard-smith-after-oval-office-speech

 

Thats a couple of times now that Fox news has called out Trump , and a number of Republican Senators have broken rank , they obviously see the writing on the wall.

[JAG]

7 hours ago, Credo said:

and lastly, becoming a mystery shopper.

'Retailer are desperate to check how their in-store customer service is and will employee you to shop and rate their service,' the tip sheet promised.

So anyone in a Coast Guard uniform turning up at a supermarket is going to get the red carpet treatment then - every cloud has a silver lining and all that...+

[keemapoot]

The temper tantrum tot keeps digging himself into a deeper hole daily:

 

Quote

'Everybody is impacted': The shutdown is ruining Trump's big farmer bailout

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/everybody-impacted-shutdown-ruining-trumps-big-farmer-bailout-222417790.html

 

and:

 

Quote

U.S. taxpayers will buy about $5 million in pork products from a Brazilian-owned meatpacking firm under President Trump’s bailout program, which was designed to help American farmers hurt by the administration’s trade war, according to documents released Wednesday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/01/09/trump-farm-bailout-money-will-go-brazilian-owned-meatpacking-firm-usda-says/?utm_term=.5b2283eca6c2

 

 

[edwinchester]

 

[Thakkar]

Kevin M. Kruse (@KevinMKruse)

1/10/19, 3:53 AM

"With malice toward none; with charity for all." -- President Abraham Lincoln

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." -- President Franklin D. Roosevelt

"Nancy said NO. I said bye-bye!" -- President Donald J. Trump

[Jack100]

As a naïve non American  , can I ask what work these immigrants actually do when they hop across the border ?

And who employs them  ?

I dont ever remember seeing or hearing  any kind of documentary or discussion  about this .

[bristolboy]

12 minutes ago, Jack100 said:

As a naïve non American  , can I ask what work these immigrants actually do when they hop across the border ?

And who employs them  ?

I dont ever remember seeing or hearing  any kind of documentary or discussion  about this .

You could try googling it. I just did using this question: In what industries do illegal immigrants work?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/illegal-immigrants-us-economy-farm-workers-taxes/

 

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2016/11/03/occupations-of-unauthorized-immigrant-workers/

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/undocumented-immigrants-are-most-likely-to-work-in-these-jobs-2017-03-16

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/03/27/where-americas-undocumented-immigrants-work/?utm_term=.03e99aafd47f

[Opl]

Trump too scared of Stephen Miller and Ann Coulter to compromise on his wall: MSNBC conservative

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/01/trump-too-scared-of-stephen-miller-and-ann-coulter-to-compromise-on-his-wall-msnbc-conservative/

 

scary people.. 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Opl

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts and replies removed.  

[bendejo]

13 hours ago, samran said:

"A shutdown falls on the president's lack of leadership. He can't even control his party and get people together in a room. A shutdown means a president is weak" - DJT (10/17/13)

 

Part of the joke is that he was not a Republican before he ran for president, so it's not really his party.  After getting elected he got the GOP politicians on his side by brute force, and won over the upper-echelon button-pushers with a tax cut.  What's left of the Republican Party in Congress is like a date-rape victim being held captive for a prolonged period: they let him into their house, and will forever regret it.  It looks like his battalion of invertebrate sycophants is beginning to thin out.

Another part of the joke is if he didn't do that buy-off tax cut he probably could have financed his wall last year. 

Poor guy, imprisoned by his own wall.

Poor GOP, it'll take a generation for it to shed the stigma of this infamy.

Poor US citizens, having to live through this.

Poor USA, having to bear being the laughingstock of the world.

Poor MAGA voters, too dumb to realize what all is happening, thinking that they are somehow favored and will not be affected by all this: "he is punishing the wrong people."

 

 

[johnnybangkok]

12 hours ago, Jack100 said:

As a naïve non American  , can I ask what work these immigrants actually do when they hop across the border ?

And who employs them  ?

I dont ever remember seeing or hearing  any kind of documentary or discussion  about this .

You have inadvertently hit on one of the many problems with illegal immigrants and the possible solution to the problem.

Someone has answered where these people work, but it has been known for quite some time that the solution to illegal immigration is not to try and stop them getting into the country (an almost impossible task) but to stop the market for illegal immigration by going after the employers rather than the workers. There are currently systems in place that could do this if only there was enough finance to police it (and $5 billion would go a long way to help that) and enough political will to roll it out across the country.

A wall is not going to stop illegal immigration; others have pointed out quite correctly that the majority of illegal immigrants are visa over-stayers. During 2017, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) found that 701,900 immigrants with visas remained in the U.S. past their expected departure date which is more than double the 303,916 immigrants apprehended at the border during that same time frame. The report by the Center for Migration Studies found this pattern to be true for every year since 2007.

This is why so many people are against the wall. Not only will it not be effective in stopping illegal immigration (as the majority are not using the border crossing and airplanes can get over walls), but the vast amount of money to build and maintain the wall (estimated at anything between $25 billion and $70 billion) would be much better spent looking at  more effective solutions - such as going after employers. The problem is that these solutions don't play to his panicked, xenophobic base who believe that illegal immigrants are the root of all evil.

Sane people aren't protesting the wall because they don't want controls over illegal immigration; they are protesting it because it just doesn't make sense.

 

[Credo]

48 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

You have inadvertently hit on one of the many problems with illegal immigrants and the possible solution to the problem.

Someone has answered where these people work, but it has been known for quite some time that the solution to illegal immigration is not to try and stop them getting into the country (an almost impossible task) but to stop the market for illegal immigration by going after the employers rather than the workers. There are currently systems in place that could do this if only there was enough finance to police it (and $5 billion would go a long way to help that) and enough political will to roll it out across the country.

A wall is not going to stop illegal immigration; others have pointed out quite correctly that the majority of illegal immigrants are visa over-stayers. During 2017, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) found that 701,900 immigrants with visas remained in the U.S. past their expected departure date which is more than double the 303,916 immigrants apprehended at the border during that same time frame. The report by the Center for Migration Studies found this pattern to be true for every year since 2007.

This is why so many people are against the wall. Not only will it not be effective in stopping illegal immigration (as the majority are not using the border crossing and airplanes can get over walls), but the vast amount of money to build and maintain the wall (estimated at anything between $25 billion and $70 billion) would be much better spent looking at  more effective solutions - such as going after employers. The problem is that these solutions don't play to his panicked, xenophobic base who believe that illegal immigrants are the root of all evil.

Sane people aren't protesting the wall because they don't want controls over illegal immigration; they are protesting it because it just doesn't make sense.

 

I could only give your post one 'like', so to show my appreciation for your well thought out comments, I'll quote it.

 

A system that allows for easier access to employment and a system to verify there status would go a long way to taking care of the illegal problem.   But a lot of employers don't want it.   

 

[Dumbastheycome]

On 1/10/2019 at 6:27 AM, TopDeadSenter said:

Good to see Trump keeping his word. He will not back down on this, and nor should he. In the end, Obama and his teleprompter said it best. “We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently and lawfully to become immigrants into this country.”

 

Get it built Trump, nice and high and long. It is not an exaggeration to say the survival of the USA depends on it. 

So never mind the ransoming of the hapless US citizens in terms of unpaid earnings, which increasingly puts them at risk of defaults on mortgages and credit, while  also increasing security risks at ports and airports which are the  actual priority whilst the Mexican border is acknowledged to  be a  low "security" risk. 

Incremental attrition of unpaid Security staff is being over shadowed by the petulant insistence for the lowest priority security token.

The damage being done to the USA in almost every aspect domestically and internationally will eventually be to the advantage of those with the financial capacity to scoop. And they are certainly not the majority.

[FritsSikkink]

He completely lost the plot with his blue tape:

 

 

[tifino]

5 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

He completely lost the plot with his blue tape:

 

 

 ... could have at least used 'masking' tape ... more appropriate for masking an ID 

 

 

but with so many Gaffs of late... I'd have though Gaffa tape would have rated at least 'some' mention! 

 

 

... a true Politician always relies upon double-sided tape ... it sort of matches the real meanings behind 'the talk'

Edited January 11, 2019 by tifino

[Psimbo]

Tiny hands- 'nuff said.

[mikebike]

On 1/10/2019 at 7:22 AM, Boon Mee said:

Storms out? 555

 

He just walked out of the meeting after Chuck and Nancy refused to compromise. 

Do all the "wallers" not know what "compromise" means, or is it just you?

[mikebike]

On 1/10/2019 at 10:02 AM, luk AJ said:

Could it be that less funds were available so less efforts so less apprehensions?
Another thing the statistic shows is that, if nothing is done, it can go back to the situation similar to 4y ago right?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Not much of a stats wonk are ya!! ????????

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 7:39 AM, riclag said:

 There is a choice! America is on a 3 week Shut down issue or facing  America's  decades long crisis at hand, with illegals,human trafficking  ,drug's and gang member's coming through the Southern Border. 

  America has a safety and a sovereign  priority  at the Southern Border !

Build a barrier or a wall!

What about your security at the airports:

https://www.boredpanda.com/tsa-agents-after-government-shutdown/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=BPFacebook&fbclid=IwAR2GHssLfs2dK7mjQY6C6IBZyJmy1ESb-m6bvYxo2_1pXP-21W8FGmfpM88

 

[keemapoot]

On 1/10/2019 at 11:35 AM, moe666 said:

Thats why his businesses were so sucessful he ran rough shod over people who he didn't want to pay for their services or products. A few sued him and won but most didn't have the money nor the time to spend in court

Meanwhile, we are learning more about Trump's sham business negotiation skills (which we now see playing out in this shutdown and elsewhere on the world stage). A longtime Trump organization executive has just spilled the beans, confirming what The Art of the Deal co-author Tony Schwartz said about most of the deals Trump made were failures.

 

Quote

“I never thought he was a great dealmaker, to be honest with you,” said Res, who was the organization’s vice president in charge of construction. “In terms of taking the responsibility for the buck, he just would never do it. It’s not in his DNA. He’s never responsible. It is always someone else’s fault.”

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/former-trump-organization-vp-spills-114027173.html

 

You know it's funny. When you compare Trump to other prominent politician Republican businessmen like Mitt Romney, no matter how bad the mud-slinging got, there was never even a hint that real businessmen like Mitt were not competent. Conversely, almost everything we are learning about Trump exposes what an incompetent creep this person is in almost every aspect.

[Jingthing]

He's a great negotiator in his mind only. We already know his true history. Con man. Mentally bizarre narcissist. Very rich already as a boy. The farthest thing from a self made man there is. Known for saying "you're fired" on reality t.v. -- in real life too chicken to fire people to their face. Constant bankruptcies. Bailed out by Daddy. Nobody to bail him out now. To save the nation, we must kick him out instead. 
 

Quote

 

Trump is terrified of the far-right echo chamber

The government isn’t shut down because of President Trump’s unbelievable cluelessness as a dealmaker. It’s shut down because of his many fears.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-is-terrified-of-the-far-right-echo-chamber/2019/01/10/13564810-1516-11e9-803c-4ef28312c8b9_story.html

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Jingthing

[Patriot1066]

On 1/10/2019 at 6:27 AM, TopDeadSenter said:

Good to see Trump keeping his word. He will not back down on this, and nor should he. In the end, Obama and his teleprompter said it best. “We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently and lawfully to become immigrants into this country.”

 

Get it built Trump, nice and high and long. It is not an exaggeration to say the survival of the USA depends on it. 

It would seem good for the ecconomy  to have a national large scheme like this? If negotiations are going no where there is little point in continuing as wastes time?

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

It would seem good for the ecconomy  to have a national large scheme like this? If negotiations are going no where there is little point in continuing as wastes time?

 When the economy is slow, projects like building the wall would have some stimulus effect. Does the economy need more stimulus now?

Also, economically speaking, a project like the wall is a dead end. As is military spending mostly. Of course there are other justifications for spending than purely economic ones. But on a purely economic basis both are wanting. Now 5 billion spent on bridge or road repair, for example, does actually promote economic growth.

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

 When the economy is slow, projects like building the wall would have some stimulus effect. Does the economy need more stimulus now?

Also, economically speaking, a project like the wall is a dead end. As is military spending mostly. Of course there are other justifications for spending than purely economic ones. But on a purely economic basis both are wanting. Now 5 billion spent on bridge or road repair, for example, does actually promote economic growth.

Good thing then that to build the wall new roads have to be constructed ????

[bristolboy]

23 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Good thing then that to build the wall new roads have to be constructed ????

Roads to nowhere.

[Jingthing]

This issue can't be separated from politics, racism, xenophobia, and fear mongering.

Yes, I'm talking about the U.S. president.

He built his political career based on racism leading the "birther" movement for several years. 

His opening campaign speech -- "Mexicans are rapists, etc." was notorious, evil, and it worked.

His clear total B.S. demagogue campaign pitch was to build a "great" ego wall of "trump" of concrete and spanning the entire border, and Mexico was going to pay for it.

Anyone with a brain cell knew that was never going to happen, that even promising such a ridiculous thing was the sign of an emerging American white nationalist fascist dictator. 

He leads a movement that is without any doubt infected with toxic white nationalism, and worse.

There is no national emergency at the border. It's a situation that ebbs and flows over the decades. 

If the U.S. had a normal president, democrat, republican, or martian, it would be a simple matter to pass a comprehensive bill addressing border security in all it's various elements.

Lots of existing walls, fences, barriers already exist and nobody has talked about tearing them down. In fact, they have been maintained, improved, and sometimes replaced.

With such a normal president, there indeed would be no problem to present very specific proposals for very specific sections of NEW barriers, justified based on tactical benefits and cost effectiveness.

But the USA now has the exact opposite of a normal president.

So as the "trump" was unable to get his new wall started when he totally controlled the congress for two years, what's the crisis now?

That he lost the house in the midterms? 

Recall he ran the midterms with racist demagogue rhetoric about the wall as his leading issue and he lost the house by a landslide.

The people have spoken.

No great wall of "trump", period.

If the people really want this wall, and they clearly do NOT as it has never enjoyed majority support, retake the house in 2020 and reelect the current president.

And if you think that is really going to happen, I have a bridge to sell you.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The latest from the New York Times:

 

Quote

Trump Confronts the Prospect of a ‘Nonstop Political War’ for Survival

WASHINGTON — So it has come to this: The president of the United States was asked over the weekend whether he is a Russian agent. And he refused to answer. The question, which came from a friendly interviewer, not one of the “fake media” journalists he disparages, was “the most insulting thing I’ve ever been asked,” he declared. But it is a question that has hung over his presidency now for two years.

Those who thought the now 23-day government shutdown standoff between Mr. Trump and Congress has been ugly have not seen anything yet. The border wall fight is just the preliminary skirmish in this new era of divided government. The real battle has yet to begin.

 

With Democrats now in charge of the House, the special counsel believed to be wrapping up his investigation, media outlets competing for scoops and the first articles of impeachment already filed, Mr. Trump faces the prospect of an all-out political war for survival that may make the still-unresolved partial government shutdown pale by comparison.

 

 

 

The answer re Russia and Trump, BTW, is undoubtedly... YES!!!!

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[baboon]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

This issue can't be separated from politics, racism, xenophobia, and fear mongering.

Yes, I'm talking about the U.S. president.

He built his political career based on racism leading the "birther" movement for several years. 

His opening campaign speech -- "Mexicans are rapists, etc." was notorious, evil, and it worked.

His clear total B.S. demagogue campaign pitch was to build a "great" ego wall of "trump" of concrete and spanning the entire border, and Mexico was going to pay for it.

Anyone with a brain cell knew that was never going to happen, that even promising such a ridiculous thing was the sign of an emerging American white nationalist fascist dictator. 

He leads a movement that is without any doubt infected with toxic white nationalism, and worse.

There is no national emergency at the border. It's a situation that ebbs and flows over the decades. 

If the U.S. had a normal president, democrat, republican, or martian, it would be a simple matter to pass a comprehensive bill addressing border security in all it's various elements.

Lots of existing walls, fences, barriers already exist and nobody has talked about tearing them down. In fact, they have been maintained, improved, and sometimes replaced.

With such a normal president, there indeed would be no problem to present very specific proposals for very specific sections of NEW barriers, justified based on tactical benefits and cost effectiveness.

But the USA now has the exact opposite of a normal president.

So as the "trump" was unable to get his new wall started when he totally controlled the congress for two years, what's the crisis now?

That he lost the house in the midterms? 

Recall he ran the midterms with racist demagogue rhetoric about the wall as his leading issue and he lost the house by a landslide.

The people have spoken.

No great wall of "trump", period.

If the people really want this wall, and they clearly do NOT as it has never enjoyed majority support, retake the house in 2020 and reelect the current president.

And if you think that is really going to happen, I have a bridge to sell you.

JT, I really think they might. Re-elect Trump, that is. His support base is vocal, focused and determined. They will come out to lend him their support despite Hell or High Water.

 Like the hardcore Brexiteers in my country, NEVER underestimate the power of single-issue obsessives, even when hope seems to be lost for them.

[Basil B]

On 1/10/2019 at 1:11 AM, KittenKong said:

Trump .... a 'total waste of time'

 

Cant argue with that. Finally he got something right.

 

...Total wast of space too. What ever happened to his Space Cadets???

[Jingthing]

41 minutes ago, baboon said:

JT, I really think they might. Re-elect Trump, that is. His support base is vocal, focused and determined. They will come out to lend him their support despite Hell or High Water.

 Like the hardcore Brexiteers in my country, NEVER underestimate the power of single-issue obsessives, even when hope seems to be lost for them.

His base is only about 35 percent. I agree he might but he does nothing to expand his base, so I don't see how.