SURVEY: Build the Wall -- Yes or No?

[MekkOne]

21 hours ago, Tug said:

No wall some fencing were practial to much of a disruption of nature and it doesent work plus it gives America a bad image

Donald said that is going to be beautiful on the American side, so no bad image at all...

[Ahab]

8 hours ago, NanLaew said:

When I was working in the US, I was t-boned by a drunk, illegal Hispanic running a red light. He was arrested, charged, brought to court, found guilty and in lieu of having any money, jailed for a few months before he was deported. This was standard operating procedure about 12 years ago and I don't think it has changed much.

That is still the process in most of the USA, however in "sanctuary cities" he would be arrested, serve his sentence and then be released without ever calling Immigration Enforcement. Immigration is not informed because the theory is that if the police call immigration illegal aliens in the community would be hesitant to call the police to report crimes. This is almost understandable if the illegal aliens that are calling the police are not the ones committing crimes and are just working and supporting a family back home in central America, it is however completely moronic and incomprehensible when applied to people involved in criminal activity (besides violating US immigration laws). A police officer in California was recently shot and killed by an illegal immigrant from Mexico that had previously been arrested for drunk driving and released. Immigration was not called when he was arrested (the police are not allowed to call immigration in California) and he was released back into the community, eventually committing murder on Christmas day. The police officer that was murdered was a legal immigrant from Fiji with a wife and two young children. 

 

For me, this policy does not make sense and every argument for the policy that I have heard is flawed. Try overstaying your visa here in Thailand and then get caught driving under the influence and see what happens to you. I can guarantee you would not be released back into the community to improve police/community relations. This is another case of Thailand getting a policy right, violate the laws (even immigration laws) and you go to jail/pay a hefty fine, then you are deported. As it should be. 

[NanLaew]

11 minutes ago, Ahab said:

That is still the process in most of the USA, however in "sanctuary cities" he would be arrested, serve his sentence and then be released without ever calling Immigration Enforcement. Immigration is not informed because the theory is that if the police call immigration illegal aliens in the community would be hesitant to call the police to report crimes. This is almost understandable if the illegal aliens that are calling the police are not the ones committing crimes and are just working and supporting a family back home in central America, it is however completely moronic and incomprehensible when applied to people involved in criminal activity (besides violating US immigration laws). A police officer in California was recently shot and killed by an illegal immigrant from Mexico that had previously been arrested for drunk driving and released. Immigration was not called when he was arrested (the police are not allowed to call immigration in California) and he was released back into the community, eventually committing murder on Christmas day. The police officer that was murdered was a legal immigrant from Fiji with a wife and two young children. 

 

For me, this policy does not make sense and every argument for the policy that I have heard is flawed. Try overstaying your visa here in Thailand and then get caught driving under the influence and see what happens to you. I can guarantee you would not be released back into the community to improve police/community relations. This is another case of Thailand getting a policy right, violate the laws (even immigration laws) and you go to jail/pay a hefty fine, then you are deported. As it should be. 

Your explanation of one of the serious flaws of 'sanctuary cities' is much appreciated. I am sure there's more but this law and order loophole is probably the most serious.

 

Which cities have this status and policies?

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[Hummin]

MR Trump 60 years ago on CBS

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-trackdown-1958-tv-series-the-end-of-the-world-episode-build-wall/

[geriatrickid]

20 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I don't think people in the US have an issue with immigration, providing it's legal. 

 

It's the large numbers of illegals where the issue is.

 

Perhaps they could all just keep the caravan going, march through the US and go to Canada?

You are obviously unaware of the flood of illegal economic migrants pouring out of the USA and into Canada. The USA is  refusing to enforce its obligations under its  secure border agreement with Canada. Americans are oblivious to this; quick to heap scorn on the Mexicans, yet no better.

[nickstav]

Instead of building the wall how about cracking down on all the employers who give the illegals jobs and exploit them by paying them substandard wages. Do you think all the workers at Trump's hotels and golf courses are legal? 

[spidermike007]

22 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Terrorists, most of which currently I would suggest are not prominently from Catholic South America, may well prefer sea and air routes. But the drug dealers, gang member, criminal element, who do come via land, and do commit robbery, rape and murder, as well as becoming involved in drugs, trafficking etc do come via land crossing. It is these elements that are the problem. In a similar way that the illegals trying to enter Europe and the UK are often young single men prepared to do anything. They obscure the real refugees and genuine asylum seekers as the numbers are swelled by the economic illegals.

 

The "wall" should be a metaphor for imposing much stricter tighter border controls. As the Mayor of McCallen says, it might be a wall, or fence, or whatever. But the objective must be to stop the large numbers illegally entering and those who prosper from it surely?

 

Hard to argue with a voice or reason, rather than a lunatic screaming from a mountaintop, using only slogans, and inciting massive amounts of fear within the consciousness of the public. 

[longtom]

Concerning the drugs (allegedly) coming in over the southern border:

1. It is only a miniscule amount that is smuggled by migrants mules.
2. We all know that as long as there is demand, the cartels will find a way to bring them into the country.

Forget this argument to manufacture a crisis!

Sent from my ASUS_X008D using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[metisdead]

A post containing an offensive Nazi reference has been removed. 

[metisdead]

The Obama-Era Border Chief thinks the building of the wall should proceed:

 

'Do It All, Including the Wall': Obama-Era Border Chief Hits Back at 'Absurd' Border Wall Arguments

 

Mark Morgan, who led the U.S. Border Patrol during Barack Obama's presidency, said Saturday that he's in total agreement with President Trump's proposed border wall.

Morgan echoed President Trump's message to America by saying the current situation at the southern border is a "national security and humanitarian crisis."

 

Read more here:  https://insider.foxnews.com/2019/01/12/obama-era-border-chief-mark-morgan-hits-back-absurd-border-wall-arguments

[marcusarelus]

12 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

Build a test wall across southern Manitoba, Ontario, and the part of Quebec where the illegals

have been crossing, Canada will not help pay, but would be grateful.

Geezer

Can't you just swim across the Detroit river?  Or walk across in the winter?  Top USA bottom Canada.

[JAG]

On 1/13/2019 at 9:21 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

The New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

 

Emma Lazarus

 

No further comment required.

 

 

2

Poetry can have particular universal relevance when used as a commentary, can't it?

 

How about this as a commentary on "The Great Wall of Trumpton" in years to come...

 

"I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert... near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed;

And on the pedestal these words appear:
'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings;
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.   Please do not quote large blocks of quoted text.  Three sentences and a link is all that is allowed.  

 

[MyFriend You]

10 hours ago, allanos said:

Absolutely correct, it will not totally dissuade illegals from getting in to the USA, but I don't think that is the intention.  My understanding is that it will persuade illegal aliens not to even make the attempt, and thus cut the incursions down to manageable numbers.

 

I would also add that, in the scheme of things, $5bn is not a lot of money.  America is nearly $22 trillion dollars in debt, and counting.  In that financial context, the amount required for the wall is just chump change.

 

It is not often mentioned that social security payments, the cost of medical treatment, and the like, which the illegals claim or are paid out for, prison incarcerations where appropriate, etc., amounts to over

$100 billion dollars of American taxpayers' money each year.  If that could be reduced by just 5%, in year 1,  by keeping out a sufficient number of illegal aliens, the wall is paid for.

Wonder how we went from 8 trillion (6 trillion to China)when Obama was elected to 22 triilion now??............subj of another post I guess.

[MyFriend You]

32 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Can't you just swim across the Detroit river?  Or walk across in the winter?  Top USA bottom Canada.

It's pretty much patrolled 24/7/265

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

It's pretty much patrolled 24/7/265

Are 100 days missing because they don't patrol on weekends?

[meinphuket]

15 hours ago, seoulbrooks said:

WoW! I see all the comments on here about getting the low hanging scum out of Thailand, send them back to their home country, black list forever.  But, you seem to think the U.S. should just allow all the scum to freely flow into our country.  When immigrants enter using the correct and legal process that is fine and fully acceptable, but if illegal send them OUT!  You bet, build the wall as high as you can build it.  

Your own US voters elected the very governments who legislated what is now the current situation, not the Thai Visa readers.

[ThaiWai]

On 1/13/2019 at 10:47 AM, spidermike007 said:

So nice to hear an intelligent voice of reason, amidst the panicked cries of "build the wall", or the country will go down in flames! 

 

The majority of Americans DO NOT support the wall, which is never going to get built. Only a percent of his base of devotees want the wall, and that is only due to constant brainwashing.

 

Roger stone was frustrated that Trump kept on forgetting to talk about immigration at the beginning of the campaign. He said Trump is a builder. He will remember to say build a wall. Hence the birth of the slogan and the fear mongering. The only terrorist apprehended at the border in the past 20 years was coming from Canada. All terrorists use the sea or come by air. None come by land. None. One in the past 20 years was caught. It is all a total ruse. Not only is illegal immigration way, way down, but if you look at crime statistics in the US, nine times more homicide is committed by American citizens, than by legal immigrants. And three times more homicide, by Americans, than by illegal immigrants. If Trump wants to solve the crime problem in the US, he has to get his own people in his administration and his team, to stop committing crime, then he has to stop committing crime, and then he can work on reforming his base, and then other Americans.

 

In a separate interview with NPR, on January 6, Darling expanded on his views. He is the mayor of McCallen, Texas.

“In certain locations, a wall or a fence or some deterrent makes sense but certainly not one across the great swath of the border in places where, ecologically, the damage would be much greater than a security benefit,” he said. “So it’s really a political football, I think. And just saying we’re going to build this great wall across the whole border makes no sense at all.”

If you knew any Border Patrol agents on the southern border (which I do and you obviously don't) the holes you conveniently leave in your facts and stats would get filled in real quick.  When you lack objectivity and seek only to bolster your bias with one sided information the results are predictable. You mock the "brainwashed" while you sip your Kool Aid.  

Edited January 14, 2019 by ThaiWai

[bristolboy]

20 minutes ago, ThaiWai said:

If you knew any Border Patrol agents on the southern border (which I do and you obviously don't) the holes you conveniently leave in your facts and stats would get filled in real quick.  When you lack objectivity and seek only to bolster your bias with one sided information the results are predictable. You mock the "brainwashed" while you sip your Kool Aid.  

Well, first off, it's not obvious that you do know any Border Patrol agents. It's only obvious that you claim you know border patrol agents.

[wayned]

IMHO is the problem is the word "wall"!  Trump campaigned on building the wall and continues to say wall.  In order to keep his base he must get money for the wall in any hopes of reelection.  That is why he will not even sit down and negotiate a solution to the problem with improved infrastructure and technology with out the money for the "wall".  It's totally about him and he really doesn't care what happens to people that are not being paid, he only wants money for his wall.   He refuses to sit down and understand and negotiate a solution!  A total Psychopath!

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, wayned said:

IMHO is the problem is the word "wall"!  Trump campaigned on building the wall and continues to say wall.  In order to keep his base he must get money for the wall in any hopes of reelection.  That is why he will not even sit down and negotiate a solution to the problem with improved infrastructure and technology with out the money for the "wall".  It's totally about him and he really doesn't care what happens to people that are not being paid, he only wants money for his wall.   He refuses to sit down and understand and negotiate a solution!  A total Psychopath!

Don't you mean sociopath? Many leaders including great leaders also have or had this in spades. Most of them had some sort of foil or counterbalance, a voice of reason from a respected confidante that kept them reasonably 'sociable' and limited their wildest excesses. With the schism in the GOP rent asunder by his unexpected election, nobody has DJT's 'ear' except possibly his son but that doesn't count for much unless maybe one is playing Monopoly.

[NanLaew]

49 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Well, first off, it's not obvious that you do know any Border Patrol agents. It's only obvious that you claim you know border patrol agents.

Yes, in the interests of the objectivity he claims that some his detractors lack, we need ThaiWai to present some of this alleged 'hole' filling material that his alleged BP buddies are alleged to have.

 

Allegedly.

Edited January 14, 2019 by NanLaew

[wayned]

17 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

nobody has DJT's 'ear' except possibly his son

I think that he would agree to have his sons, Donald, Eric and Barron,  castrated if he thought that he could get the money for his wall!  And I did mean Psychopath which are traits that are common in many company CEOs but the US government is not his company!

[mcambl61]

12 hours ago, Basil B said:

I doubt this wall will stop or even significantly reduce illegal migration, they will find ways round, under, over and even through...

Trump say's he will recoup the cost of the wall with 20% tariffs on goods from Mexico but will this just make smuggling more profitable.

Would not the $12 billion be better spent as aid to the impoverished (and exploited by US interests) countries of South and Central America thereby reducing the causes of poverty and economic migration???

the typical liberal mindset. billions in AID given but lets just give more so they don't break the law....amazing logic

 

corrupt governments, right and left, in central america for decades. Then we will hear another liberal talking point that it is the white mans fault, AGAIN

[simple1]

25 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

the typical liberal mindset. billions in AID given but lets just give more so they don't break the law....amazing logic

 

corrupt governments, right and left, in central america for decades. Then we will hear another liberal talking point that it is the white mans fault, AGAIN

Whilst not being the sole factor, decades of US intervention has no relevance?

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/12/21/has-united-states-foreign-policy-central-america-fueled-migrant-crisis-donald-trump/2338489002/

 

As an alternative to being a blow hard why not research current US policy for Central America, challenges and so on. A few links...

 

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10371.pdf

 

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R44812.pdf

Edited January 14, 2019 by simple1

[JMSIII]

I find it to be amazing that so many people here are so wrong, not even close to understanding what a wall would prevent.  I have seen guys explain sanctuary cites accurately, only to have individuals question and doubt them, or even tell them they are wrong.  Most people who have no idea of the truth, are only getting their information from the corrupt, treasonous, fake news of CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, etc...   They are not reporting the reality and truth of what is going on at the southern border.  They are controlled by the deep state, cabal, whatever you want to call them.  They are not honest, independent news agencies!

 

I have to politely ask people here who only want to bash Trump, and bash any notion of a wall.  Have you any personal experience with illegals?  Have you ever had to deal with the criminal behavior of the illegals?  Have you ever dealt with any victims of the illegals?

 

I'm willing to bet your answer will be, no you have not.  With that being said, it's sad because there are very good, honest people just trying to make a buck to send back home for their families in Mexico.

 

When I was growing up in the 60's and 70's in California, we had illegal Mexicans all over working seasonal jobs.  It was not a big deal.  Only became a big deal in later years, when hospitals and clinics were being forced into bankruptcy, and then eventually closing their doors for good.  Because of all of the unpaid medical bills from the illegals.  You would go into almost any emergency room, on any given day and time, they would be filled with non English speaking illegals.  Being treated for a cold, to broken bones, births, gun shot wounds, etc.  You name it, and they were getting top medical care free.  This is what started our medical insurance, and our medical costs to become so expensive.  Somebody had to pay, and that was Americans with medical insurance and jobs.

 

There is a Federal law that states if you walk into a hospital, you must be treated.  Illegal Mexicans ran up hundreds of millions of dollars in bills, without paying.

Edited January 14, 2019 by JMSIII
Add

[ballpoint]

Why, I remember one Christmas, after Tiny Tim worked 23 hours a day for the whole year and managed to get himself a nice turkey for dinner, this illegal Mexican came by and said he wanted it, and the police man took it from Tiny Tim and gave it to the illegal man.  And another illegal man looked at my gran'ma in a funny way.  And his dog, what was one of them illegal breeds, growled at her, and the police man took my Gran'ma and locked her in the pound and let the dog go.  And, all them birds come flying over from Mexico and eat our hard working American farmer's corn, that we Americans invented by the way, why, they should all be shot.  And, I just bet them Mexican fish aren't just swimming around on their side of the border too.  Comin' over here and eating our fishes food, and having their wicked way with them!  If'in it wasn't for all them illegals coming over here and carrying on, then we'd all be millionaires, and sittin' back in our chairs eating our good old American burritos and nachos, and sipping on margaritas while the women folk got on with the house work without having to keep look over their shoulders to stop some swarthy unshaved border crossing thug from creepin' up on them.  Manuel, put down that grass cutter and get me another Corona, and snap to it!

[Kerryd]

18 hours ago, stud858 said:

I'm from Australia where the land has a wall of ocean around it. If it didn't I'm guessing things would be a lot different.

 

That "wall of ocean" didn't work out so well for the Aboriginals, did it ? Not working out so well these days either.
Just like the "wall of ocean" between Africa and Europe isn't working out to well either. 
 

Quote

At least make a movie about building a wall first and see how that goes?

They did. It was called "Pacific Rim 2". Where they decided against an active deterrent (armed mech warriors) in favour of just building massively huge walls. 

Which of course got wrecked by the next monster that spawned of course, forcing them to go back to old method of "active" defense.

Notice how all the news about that "caravan" of illegal immigrants from Guatemala (and other countries) abruptly died out a couple weeks ago ? They made it across a couple of borders, got to the US border and suddenly it was like all news coverage just stopped.

 

No mention of them being turned back. Or of the other convoys that were supposed to be following the original one. No stories of masses of illegals trying to force their way across the US border. No more news about troops being deployed.

 

Curiouser and curiouser.

[Becker]

1 hour ago, JMSIII said:

I find it to be amazing that so many people here are so wrong, not even close to understanding what a wall would prevent.  I have seen guys explain sanctuary cites accurately, only to have individuals question and doubt them, or even tell them they are wrong.  Most people who have no idea of the truth, are only getting their information from the corrupt, treasonous, fake news of CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, etc...   They are not reporting the reality and truth of what is going on at the southern border.

 

I have to politely ask people here who only want to bash Trump, and bash any notion of a wall.  Have you any personal experience with illegals?  Have you ever had to deal with the criminal behavior of the illegals?  Have you ever dealt with any victims of the illegals?

 

I'm willing to bet your answer will be, no you have not.  With that being said, it's sad because there are very good, honest people just trying to make a buck to send back home for their families in Mexico.

 

When I was growing up in the 60's and 70's in California, we had illegal Mexicans all over working seasonal jobs.  It was not a big deal.  Only became a big deal in later years, when hospitals and clinics were being forced into bankruptcy, and then eventually closing their doors for good.  Because of all of the unpaid medical bills from the illegals.  You would go into almost any emergency room, on any given day and time, they would be filled with non English speaking illegals.  Being treated for a cold, to broken bones, births, gun shot wounds, etc.  You name it, and they were getting top medical care free.  This is what started our medical insurance, and our medical costs to become so expensive.  Somebody had to pay, and that was Americans with medical insurance and jobs.

 

There is a Federal law that states if you walk into a hospital, you must be treated.  Illegal Mexicans ran up hundreds of millions of dollars in bills, without paying.

And I find it amazing that you wrote that longish post in support of a wall without even one single argument for why it should be built.