Help Me Im starving

[Nyezhov]

9 hours ago, cooked said:

Fair comment/

Keto may cure some things but it prevents a lot more. Putting people through expensive medical procedures that could have been avoided if people didn't insist that the standard American diet (low fat, high carbs), which obviously isn't working, was healthy certainly isn't ethical. 

Dude folks have been reccomending balanced diets high in fruits and veggies and low on saturated fats, sugars and complex carbs for years. That works just fine.

 

It's not a plot, it's personal responsibility. Take me for example. I chose to pound down cheese steak sandwhichs on coissants with cheese and quart of Haagen-Dazs ice cream as opposed to broccoli. I would rather stuff my face with an entire fried Chicken and macaroni and cheese as opposed to a balanced diet including cruciform vegetables. I have never met a fat or trans fat that I didn't fall in love with. I toppedd all of my food love with pizza and pack after pack of Marlboros and then I would fire up a doobie and get the munchies for taco Bell. Rather than walk anywhere, I would jump into my car and spend my entire day cruising. Yes I got exercise, but somehow it one week hunting trip when you're eating a lot of Franks and beans over a year of rolling in butter and lard of life doesn't quite cut it. Hello the first things I would do in the morning is swell a couple of Pepsi's and eat some processed pies. 

 

so I reckon you have to excuse me if I don't blame doctors and dietitians on the so-called American diet for the heart problems in the world today. I'm the one that controls what goes in and out of my mouth and I made my choice. now that doctor death is punched me in the face I don't get to make that choice anymore. Trust me, having a guava as a snack it's far less satisfying then Ben & Jerry's but I'm holding out the hope that next month, smiling little Thai nutrician Nazis will let me have a cookie. Probably oatmeal with raisins and no sugar.

[Nyezhov]

34 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Your friend shouldn't listen to Thai doctors, who are generally clueless and out to make as much money from you as they can.

I don't know about that, I have been pretty impressed by my two. 100% straight Cleveland clinic / Mayo clinic cardiac protocols. Even his reason for not immediately prescribing me a beta blocker were right on the money with what is currently the American protocol.

[Spidey]

13 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

I don't know about that, I have been pretty impressed by my two. 100% straight Cleveland clinic / Mayo clinic cardiac protocols. Even his reason for not immediately prescribing me a beta blocker were right on the money with what is currently the American protocol.

It's British protocol to prescribe a Beta blocker. Personally, I'd prefer to take one.

 

Also, I'm not overly impressed by the diet they've got you on.

 

Hold your review until you've talked to a cardiologist in the US.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by Spidey

[Nyezhov]

10 minutes ago, Spidey said:

It's British protocol to prescribe a Beta blocker. Personally, I'd prefer to take one.

 

Also, I'm not overly impressed by the diet they've got you on.

 

Hold your review until you've talked to a cardiologist in the US.

 

 

I'm on the blocker now. His reasons for not putting me on right away was right out of a couple of Mayo clinic protocols I read. The diet I have me is standard USA cardiac diet IE, has referred to above a balanced diet containing more fruits and vegetables and less processed sugars and cholesterol and saturated fats and smaller amounts with exercise and evidently it's work because I did drop 2.7 kilos and and feeling less and less like I am in a concentration camp being served shoe soup.

[sirineou]

45 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Dude folks have been reccomending balanced diets high in fruits and veggies and low on saturated fats, sugars and complex carbs for years. That works just fine.

 

It's not a plot, it's personal responsibility. Take me for example. I chose to pound down cheese steak sandwhichs on coissants with cheese and quart of Haagen-Dazs ice cream as opposed to broccoli. I would rather stuff my face with an entire fried Chicken and macaroni and cheese as opposed to a balanced diet including cruciform vegetables. I have never met a fat or trans fat that I didn't fall in love with. I toppedd all of my food love with pizza and pack after pack of Marlboros and then I would fire up a doobie and get the munchies for taco Bell. Rather than walk anywhere, I would jump into my car and spend my entire day cruising. Yes I got exercise, but somehow it one week hunting trip when you're eating a lot of Franks and beans over a year of rolling in butter and lard of life doesn't quite cut it. Hello the first things I would do in the morning is swell a couple of Pepsi's and eat some processed pies. 

 

so I reckon you have to excuse me if I don't blame doctors and dietitians on the so-called American diet for the heart problems in the world today. I'm the one that controls what goes in and out of my mouth and I made my choice. now that doctor death is punched me in the face I don't get to make that choice anymore. Trust me, having a guava as a snack it's far less satisfying then Ben & Jerry's but I'm holding out the hope that next month, smiling little Thai nutrician Nazis will let me have a cookie. Probably oatmeal with raisins and no sugar.

Allow me to disagree with you on the "personal choice".

  I was watching TV the other day, and there was a commercial , of an attractive Mom driving an SUV with two cute kids in the back sweat, a boy and a girl, and the kids a bickering. Mom throws them a couple of bags of poison in the shape of dinosaurs  ( cheetos , and tostitos). The kids stop fighting, Mom is happy . 

There is a multi Billion advertising  industry designed to affect "personal choice" 

  Then there is Government. When I was a kid my Dad worked and made enough money to take care of his family. My Mom never worked, when we came home from school Mom was there with a home cooked meal, to make sure we did our homework, brush our teeth,go out and plat but be home before dark. Now both parents have to work to maintain the same lifestyle, my dad provided for as on his own. Kids watch TV bombarded with all short of garbage, eat crap,  run wild on their own, and develop bad habits including eating habits. 

Some "personal choice"

Then you have special interest groups, with campaign contributions and high price lobbyists. The beef industry, the Corn farmers, Tyson Chicken, Craft, Fast food etc etc. 

All working to assist you with your "personal choice" 

I am reminded of Henry Ford with his remark about the Model T "You can choose any color  you want as long as it is black"

 

 

Edited January 22, 2019 by sirineou

[Spidey]

19 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

I'm on the blocker now. His reasons for not putting me on right away was right out of a couple of Mayo clinic protocols I read. The diet I have me is standard USA cardiac diet IE, has referred to above a balanced diet containing more fruits and vegetables and less processed sugars and cholesterol and saturated fats and smaller amounts with exercise and evidently it's work because I did drop 2.7 kilos and and feeling less and less like I am in a concentration camp being served shoe soup.

It's the number of calories that worries me. 2000/day would be a more sensible number.

 

When you have an MI (I don't know if you did or not, but you certainly came close) your heart muscles become starved of oxygen. This leads to some of the muscle dying. I lost a fair bit of heart muscle, permanently. The prime need in recovery is to allow your heart to repair itself, gentle exercise, balanced diet and zero stress.

 

A crash diet puts more strain on the heart, having an overall negative effect. My diet, prescribed by a dietician specialising in cardio patients, consisted of no processed sugars, minimal fats, no processed food, 2k cal/day.

 

High roughage breakfast. Museli, fresh fruit and low fat milk.

 

Pretty much whatever you want for lunch, remembering the calories. Main meal of the day.

 

Evening meal, relatively light. Absolutely no carbs. If you go to bed with a stomach full of carbs, in your sedentary state, all those carbs get converted to sugar which, as you aren't using that energy, gets stored as fat. Lethal.

 

Initially, I lost around 1kg/week. Gently does it.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Spidey

[soalbundy]

First world problems, how did you get fat in the first place ?

[AlQaholic]

Doctors warn against keto because it reduces muscle mass (incl. heart) when done incorrectly. 

[Spidey]

21 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

First world problems, how did you get fat in the first place ?

I was my prefect fighting weight (12st - 168lb) when I came to live in Thailand. Now 15 1/2st - 220 lb.

 

My wife was the chef in a Thai restraunt when I moved here, excellent cook. She feeds me like a pig. The fatter I am the more kudos she gets from her friends/family for "taking good care of me".

 

Try explaining to a Thai about weight problems vis-à-vis health. Waste of time. Easier to keep shoving the food in my mouth.

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

It's the number of calories that worries me. 2000/day would be a more sensible number.

 

When you have an MI (I don't know if you did or not, but you certainly came close) your heart muscles become starved of oxygen. This leads to some of the muscle dying. I lost a fair bit of heart muscle, permanently. The prime need in recovery is to allow your heart to repair itself, gentle exercise, balanced diet and zero stress.

 

A crash diet puts more strain on the heart, having an overall negative effect. My diet, prescribed by a dietician specialising in cardio patients, consisted of no processed sugars, minimal fats, no processed food, 2k cal/day.

 

High roughage breakfast. Museli, fresh fruit and low fat milk.

 

Pretty much whatever you want for lunch, remembering the calories. Main meal of the day.

 

Evening meal, relatively light. Absolutely no carbs. If you go to bed with a stomach full of carbs, in your sedentary state, all those carbs get converted to sugar which, as you aren't using that energy, gets stored as fat. Lethal.

 

Initially, I lost around 1kg/week. Gently does it.

I ran all those concerns with the Doc and the food fascist girls.

 

He feels that there was little, if any damage to the heart muscle, but will know once he does an echo in April. Thats because I was still getting blood flow and there was fast intervention. Basically as I understand it simplistically, the progression of seriousness is from Angina (narrowing), Unstable Angina (more narrow), NSTEMI (narrowest with blockage danger), STEMI (blockage). I never had Angina symptoms until the day of the incident, so basically, when I pulled up to the hospital, I wasnt in severe infarct territory. It wasnt viewable on the EKG but diagnosed through the enzyme test. Interestingly, I have made it a habit over the years to suck down an 81 mg aspirin daily so what effect that had is unknown.

 

My diet Mistresses say I can do up to 1500 correct (ie no junk food) calories if I excersize regularly. They say that falangs are too fat and eat too much junk food. As your diet girl said: No sodas, sweets, extraneous fats, baked good, processed meats, ice cream, whipped cream, lots of cheese, etc. The good stuff. Vegetables, fruit, protein, fish, etc.

 

Yesterday my intake was 1500 plus, but I only netted 500 in light of the excersize.

 

Todays breakfast was a cuppa Joe, a package of Benecol, and some Papaya. As soon as my coffee is gone, I may have a soy milk.  Lunch today will be Oatmeal and more fruit. Dinner tonight is tuna with some veggies and fruit. I dont know how much walking I will do, I have to do chores, etc. 

 

I am working to eliminate night carbs, so last night, instead of rice, I pounded fresh guava slices which is only 5gr net carbs per fruit.

 

I think I said earlier that I dropped 2.7kg, the goose steppers want about 5kg loss a month. 

[Nyezhov]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

It's British protocol to prescribe a Beta blocker. Personally, I'd prefer to take one.

Im on one now. USA protocol.

[Nyezhov]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

There is a multi Billion advertising  industry designed to affect "personal choice"

There is also no accounting for stupid. Blaming advertising, capitalism, society, Mommy and Daddy or whatever for poor choices in life doesnt change the fact that the bottom line remains the individual. And if Mommy tosses the kiddies Cheetos to shut them up, well, guess we live in a world where .gov cant force parents to be good parents. 

 

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

Now both parents have to work to maintain the same lifestyle, my dad provided for as on his own. Kids watch TV bombarded with all short of garbage, eat crap,  run wild on their own, and develop bad habits including eating habits. 

Excuses. Blame the .gov? Toss out the TV, spend sunday making meals for the kids, work a little harder. If its too hard, you shouldnt have kids.

 

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

Then you have special interest groups, with campaign contributions and high price lobbyists. The beef industry, the Corn farmers, Tyson Chicken, Craft, Fast food etc etc. 

All working to assist you with your "personal choice" 

So? You mean to tell me that folks are forced to buy those products because of lobbyist?

 

My far disgusting body was MY CHOICE. I decided to smoke and not permanently quit. I decided to be a fat lazy lug. Kraft didnt heed to tell me to buy their cream cheese, I just liked the taste. All the Hagen Daz ads in the world didnt wean me from Ben and Jerrys. I was taught in grammer school the food pyramid, its been drummed into my head for 40 years about how bad some of this shit is and my Mom still yells at me. I may whinge about suffering, but aint no one to blame but myself.

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

First world problems, how did you get fat in the first place ?

Seafood diet. I see food I eat it.

[Nyezhov]

36 minutes ago, Spidey said:

My wife was the chef in a Thai restraunt when I moved here, excellent cook. She feeds me like a pig. The fatter I am the more kudos she gets from her friends/family for "taking good care of me".

 

Try explaining to a Thai about weight problems vis-à-vis health. Waste of time. Easier to keep shoving the food in my mouth.

My regular Thai food stand in Bang Rak exhibits that mentality. The lady saw my hospital band and I explained I had had some heart problems so had to have more vegetables. Now for my normal price the rice is doubled, the veggies are doubled, the meat and sauce is scant...and everything has double the amount of pepper. She proudly told me that its good for me, lots of rice and peppers and veggies are good for the body.

 

I like it spicy of course and know that capsicum is great for the circulatory system, but damn, the next morning.....

Edited January 22, 2019 by Nyezhov

[seancbk]

On 1/20/2019 at 5:08 PM, Sheryl said:

What you are eating is not a "balanced healthy diet". It is an extreme.

 

The best diet is the one you can actually stick to which is obviously not this.

 

Was the 1200 calories the cardiologists suggestion???

 

For a western male more like 1800 would be reasonable for gradual weight loss. 1-2 slices of whole wheat bread is OK, so is brown rice and modest servings of whole wheat pasta.

 

there is no need to track fat and cholesterol (and not all cholesterol is unhealhty). Just no processed foods and avoid or at least minimize saturated fats --  but do consume some unsaturated fats, it will help you feel full plus a balanced diet requires fatty acids.

 

1800 calories for someone who is quite active perhaps, for someone who is older and needs to lose 20kg (I can't even fathom putting that much extra weight on) I would suggest about 1200-1500 max.   The problem is most people massively underestimate their calorific intake (unless they are really carefully measuring what they eat) and they overestimate the amount of exercise they get (or rather how many calories that exercise uses).   

Just a quick example, eating one banana is 105 calories.  To burn that off you'd need to walk at a fast pace for 15 mins (at least).  

It also depends on the person and how quickly they put the weight on.  I gained 5 kgs over 6 years so I'm now 82 kgs and that is way too fat for my liking so I've dropped all obvious cards (bread, rice, oatmeal etc).  I stopped eating sugar a few years ago and I massively cut back on processed foods.   My weakness is beer, I drink 8-10 pints, 2-3 nights a week and when I've been drinking I eat late (3-4am).   I'm gradually weaning myself off beer but it's hard when a bottle of beer costs 160 THB and a bottle of water in the same bar costs 150 THB!!  I might start drinking Vodka and Soda water, I just wish they'd serve it in bigger glasses so you get as much volume as a beer!

 

 

[cooked]

3 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Dude folks have been reccomending balanced diets high in fruits and veggies and low on saturated fats, sugars and complex carbs for years. That works just fine.

 

It's not a plot, it's personal responsibility. Take me for example. I chose to pound down cheese steak sandwhichs on coissants with cheese and quart of Haagen-Dazs ice cream as opposed to broccoli. I would rather stuff my face with an entire fried Chicken and macaroni and cheese as opposed to a balanced diet including cruciform vegetables. I have never met a fat or trans fat that I didn't fall in love with. I toppedd all of my food love with pizza and pack after pack of Marlboros and then I would fire up a doobie and get the munchies for taco Bell. Rather than walk anywhere, I would jump into my car and spend my entire day cruising. Yes I got exercise, but somehow it one week hunting trip when you're eating a lot of Franks and beans over a year of rolling in butter and lard of life doesn't quite cut it. Hello the first things I would do in the morning is swell a couple of Pepsi's and eat some processed pies. 

 

so I reckon you have to excuse me if I don't blame doctors and dietitians on the so-called American diet for the heart problems in the world today. I'm the one that controls what goes in and out of my mouth and I made my choice. now that doctor death is punched me in the face I don't get to make that choice anymore. Trust me, having a guava as a snack it's far less satisfying then Ben & Jerry's but I'm holding out the hope that next month, smiling little Thai nutrician Nazis will let me have a cookie. Probably oatmeal with raisins and no sugar.

After the Second World War US farmers found themselves with a huge surplus of vegetable products. Crisco developed a method for transforming vegetables into hydrogenised oils and started a huge ad campaign telling us that lard and butter were unhealthy, and to eat less (animal) fats and more veg. There are charts available that show how obesity , diabetes and cardiovascular diseases started to rise from that time on. Other countries started later and the rise came correspondingly later. The SAD doesn't bloody well work.

I recently watched a series of docs about American Civil War veterans from the thirties; nary a Standard American Diet gut among them. 

You may think that you eat what you choose but your body has been adjusted to expect sugars and carbohydrates as a source of energy and so just lets the fat sit there, around your liver and waistline. If you were to try Keto (under supervision of someone that understands it of course) your "Choice" to eat carbs would drastically diminish.  

[cooked]

3 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Dude folks have been reccomending balanced diets high in fruits and veggies and low on saturated fats, sugars and complex carbs for years. That works just fine.

 

It's not a plot, it's personal responsibility. Take me for example. I chose to pound down cheese steak sandwhichs on coissants with cheese and quart of Haagen-Dazs ice cream as opposed to broccoli. I would rather stuff my face with an entire fried Chicken and macaroni and cheese as opposed to a balanced diet including cruciform vegetables. I have never met a fat or trans fat that I didn't fall in love with. I toppedd all of my food love with pizza and pack after pack of Marlboros and then I would fire up a doobie and get the munchies for taco Bell. Rather than walk anywhere, I would jump into my car and spend my entire day cruising. Yes I got exercise, but somehow it one week hunting trip when you're eating a lot of Franks and beans over a year of rolling in butter and lard of life doesn't quite cut it. Hello the first things I would do in the morning is swell a couple of Pepsi's and eat some processed pies. 

 

so I reckon you have to excuse me if I don't blame doctors and dietitians on the so-called American diet for the heart problems in the world today. I'm the one that controls what goes in and out of my mouth and I made my choice. now that doctor death is punched me in the face I don't get to make that choice anymore. Trust me, having a guava as a snack it's far less satisfying then Ben & Jerry's but I'm holding out the hope that next month, smiling little Thai nutrician Nazis will let me have a cookie. Probably oatmeal with raisins and no sugar.

After the Second World War US farmers found themselves with a huge surplus of vegetable products. Crisco developed a method for transforming vegetables into hydrogenised oils and started a huge ad campaign telling us that lard and butter were unhealthy, and to eat less (animal) fats and more veg. There are charts available that show how obesity , diabetes and cardiovascular diseases started to rise from that time on. Other countries started later and the rise came correspondingly later. The SAD doesn't bloody well work.

I recently watched a series of docs about American Civil War veterans from the thirties; nary a Standard American Diet gut among them. 

You may think that you eat what you choose but your body has been adjusted to expect sugars and carbohydrates as a source of energy and so just lets the fat sit there, around your liver and waistline. If you were to try Keto (under supervision of someone that understands it of course) your "Choice" to eat carbs would drastically diminish.  

[tifino]

2 minutes ago, cooked said:

After the Second World War US farmers found themselves with a huge surplus of vegetable products. Crisco developed a method for transforming vegetables into hydrogenised oils and started a huge ad campaign telling us that lard and butter were unhealthy, and to eat less (animal) fats and more veg. There are charts available that show how obesity , diabetes and cardiovascular diseases started to rise from that time on. Other countries started later and the rise came correspondingly later. The SAD doesn't bloody well work.

I recently watched a series of docs about American Civil War veterans from the thirties; nary a Standard American Diet gut among them. 

You may think that you eat what you choose but your body has been adjusted to expect sugars and carbohydrates as a source of energy and so just lets the fat sit there, around your liver and waistline. If you were to try Keto (under supervision of someone that understands it of course) your "Choice" to eat carbs would drastically diminish.  

ah! Crisco... it inventor of Trans Fats  the end of healthy eating...

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Nyezhov said:

There is also no accounting for stupid. Blaming advertising, capitalism, society, Mommy and Daddy or whatever for poor choices in life doesnt change the fact that the bottom line remains the individual. And if Mommy tosses the kiddies Cheetos to shut them up, well, guess we live in a world where .gov cant force parents to be good parents. 

 

Excuses. Blame the .gov? Toss out the TV, spend sunday making meals for the kids, work a little harder. If its too hard, you shouldnt have kids.

 

So? You mean to tell me that folks are forced to buy those products because of lobbyist?

 

My far disgusting body was MY CHOICE. I decided to smoke and not permanently quit. I decided to be a fat lazy lug. Kraft didnt heed to tell me to buy their cream cheese, I just liked the taste. All the Hagen Daz ads in the world didnt wean me from Ben and Jerrys. I was taught in grammer school the food pyramid, its been drummed into my head for 40 years about how bad some of this shit is and my Mom still yells at me. I may whinge about suffering, but aint no one to blame but myself.

all of the above contribute to the available options .

  Indeed we have a personal responsibility to chose but we are limited by the available choices.

Today is my lucky day, I get to use one of my favorite quotes for the second time.

 It was Henry Ford who said in reference to the Model T "you can choose any color you want  as long as it is Black"

I also also lost my nutritional way for a while and take responsibility for my part, but also blame influences, and conditions, IMO anyone who thinks their decisions are not influenced by outside forces and conditions I am afraid is simply whistling in the dark.

But back on  the subject pf this thread. Almost every morning for breakfast I have a bowl of  steel cut Oatmeal sweetened with honey , crumbled walnuts and cinnamon,  It really fills you up and takes a long way to go through you, I don't eat anything else or get hungry for six to seven Hrs.

 

[Jaxxper]

Splash out on a couple of pints of Guinness each week. That will put some kick back in you....

[FracturedRabbit]

1 hour ago, AlQaholic said:

Doctors warn against keto because it reduces muscle mass (incl. heart) when done incorrectly. 

Many things are bad for you if done incorrectly. Keto, done correctly, does not reduce muscle mass. Plenty of ripped keto people out there. Like this guy:

 

[Mikeasq60]

Well food still tastes the same. But maybe because of this fallish weather in Thailand. Is it me hasn't food been tasting much more mouth watering.  Just sayin! 

[robblok]

20 hours ago, cooked said:

 Keto was mentioned at the beginning of this thread and of course, as usual, has been ignored. At least nobody scoffed at it. 

Basically, you reduce the daily carbohydrate total in your diet to below 20 gm. One slice toast = 13 gm.

Sounds difficult but many have managed. This means no sugar, beer, bread, rice, potatoes and a lot of other stuff most of us crave(-d in my case). After a while your body goes into ketosis, and starts to convert body fat into the glucose instead of drawing on quick sugar fixes that your body tells you you need. 

The keto diet satiates hunger even though you will finish up eating less calories, losing weight and lowering blood pressure, bad cholesterol and blood sugar levels. I no longer take blood pressure meds, lost 10 Kg (BMI 25.1 > 23) and feel smugly pleased with myself, I also started running, managing a mile a day without fail at the age of 71, 4 months in.

Please google it or maybe read https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/2/133 by Tim Noakes who is an eminent doctor and dietitian. Plenty of stuff on Youtube, plenty of ignorant comments also. 

 

I always comment on people who religiously believe keto is the one cure that cures all. You are not like that. Keto is just one of the diets that CAN work everything works once you lover the amount of calories you ingest. 

 

I have read recent research that shows keto DOES NOT make people lose more weight when people adhere to their diet. Its just a way to eat less nothing more nothing less. I prefer not to use it, i have tried just did not work better for me then other diets. It certainly is not good for those people who do sports that need explosive power. 

 

Nothing wrong with KETO, as long as people accept other ways work too.

 

Most important thing is eating less and eating quality foods not crap. 

[robblok]

13 minutes ago, FracturedRabbit said:

Many things are bad for you if done incorrectly. Keto, done correctly, does not reduce muscle mass. Plenty of ripped keto people out there. Like this guy:

 

Plenty of people who are ripped and far more muscular then this keto guy. You need insulin for muscle gains its just biology. If you don't care about muscle gains go keto. 

 

Insulin is not some bad poison its just a transporting system that shuttles nutrients and fat into cells. Without out it you just don't get optimal muscle growth. Keto is NOT good for muscle gains carbs (especially after training) is good.

 

I don't understand why keto people are so unwilling to accept this scientific fact. It might NOT cause muscle loss but it certainly is not good for muscle gains. 

[Nyezhov]

36 minutes ago, sirineou said:

IMO anyone who thinks their decisions are not influenced by outside forces and conditions I am afraid is simply whistling in the dark.

Thats scary  having to live like that dude

[Nyezhov]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Most important thing is eating less and eating quality foods not crap. 

Winner

 

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

I always comment on people who religiously believe keto is the one cure that cures all.

My comment is going to be: show me a peer reviewed study out of a top Medical School that Keto is the Cure all.

 

Everyone loves Snake Oil.

[robblok]

53 minutes ago, cooked said:

After the Second World War US farmers found themselves with a huge surplus of vegetable products. Crisco developed a method for transforming vegetables into hydrogenised oils and started a huge ad campaign telling us that lard and butter were unhealthy, and to eat less (animal) fats and more veg. There are charts available that show how obesity , diabetes and cardiovascular diseases started to rise from that time on. Other countries started later and the rise came correspondingly later. The SAD doesn't bloody well work.

I recently watched a series of docs about American Civil War veterans from the thirties; nary a Standard American Diet gut among them. 

You may think that you eat what you choose but your body has been adjusted to expect sugars and carbohydrates as a source of energy and so just lets the fat sit there, around your liver and waistline. If you were to try Keto (under supervision of someone that understands it of course) your "Choice" to eat carbs would drastically diminish.  

That is just misinformation, when there is a calorie deficit fat will be burned, KETO or no KETO.

As for the civil war veterans, i can tell you these guys ate loads of carbs too. Carbs have always been in the diet, but these guys walked a lot too. All that marching (no cars) helps a lot.

Did you know that extra muscle helps you to handle carbs better ?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foods_of_the_American_Civil_War

Edited January 22, 2019 by robblok

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Winner

 

My comment is going to be: show me a peer reviewed study out of a top Medical School that Keto is the Cure all.

 

Everyone loves Snake Oil.

I read a lot of research and articles from bodybuilding sites. They slowly turned away from KETO as it just does not work as good as advertised. Especially for those who want to build muscle too.

 

The scientist there often show studies of KETO and other diets that show they all work as long as there is a caloric deficit. Thankfully they are not so rigid over there they accept that humans vary and that some people will prefer this diet and others prefer other diets.

 

As long as quality foods are eaten, vegetables, healthy fats and proteins and carbs (low or not or no carbs) then you can lose weight. 

 

Nothing to date has ever been proven that keto somehow makes calories in vs calories out obsolete. 

 

Sometimes i equate the followers of KETO to Muslims (or put in an other strict religion) where they think that their way is the only way without any proof.

[Nyezhov]

46 minutes ago, cooked said:

I recently watched a series of docs about American Civil War veterans from the thirties; nary a Standard American Diet gut among them. 

You may think that you eat what you choose but your body has been adjusted to expect sugars and carbohydrates as a source of energy and so just lets the fat sit there, around your liver and waistline. If you were to try Keto (under supervision of someone that understands it of course) your "Choice" to eat carbs would drastically diminish.

Dude your basic civil war ration was carb and fat heavy.

 

Your skinny Irishman of the 19th Century lived on Taters.

 

You scrawny Russian peasant lived on Bread and Kasha.

 

Nothing wrong with carbs. Its the processing, the sugars the lack of excersize, the lack of balance. Nothing wrong with animal fats in moderation. Nothing wrong with some vegtable fats in moderation.

 

The fat guts are from all the crap we eat. The crap we didnt eat 100 years ago meant we werent fat. And we excersized more.

 

Your adherence to Keto as the end all and be all is getting to the point of religious fervor and Infomercial territory. Are you seriously contending that keto is a healthier diet than a well balanced diet of vegtables (carbs), fruits (carbs), fish/meat? You think that one cannot give up the bad processed carbs and sugars if they have to?

 

Here tell me this: If I ate a cup of steamed broccoli for lunch, with a half a cup of brown rice, with 4 oz of salmon grilled in olive oil and garlic, is that unhealthy in the keto world?

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By the way, where do you Keto dudes get your fiber?

[Spidey]

8 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

By the way, where do you Keto dudes get your fiber?

They don't. I'm reliably informed that Keto addicts need daily sessions with a katoey to keep them regular.

 

Each to his own.