Retirement Visa - What are the new requirements.

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, Olmate said:

But for some the agent route is bad news

However one chooses to characterize the agent route, its longevity is not certain.

[Thomas J]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

To applicants that have the proper documents. That has included embassy letters for income methods. Hopefully they will get with the new programs, but I'm not surprised if any office at this time says we don't do that, it's your problem, your embassy cut off the letters, not our fault, it's not on us, come back with an 800K bank seasoned application or ba-bye. Not surprised at all. 

Does anyone know if it was the Embassies who cut off the income verification letters or if it was the Thai government who requested that they do so. I would guess the latter since it forces expatriates to send money to Thai banks which they desperately want. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Thomas J said:

Does anyone know if it was the Embassies who cut off the income verification letters or if it was the Thai government who requested that they do so. I would guess the latter since it forces expatriates to send money to Thai banks which they desperately want. 

Of course it was the embassies themselves that made the decision. If it was Thai immigration they would have simply stopped accepting the letters from all the embassies. No need to order anyone if immigration doesn't accept them anymore. But they do. Only four have stopped them. 

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Does anyone know if it was the Embassies who cut off the income verification letters or if it was the Thai government who requested that they do so. I would guess the latter since it forces expatriates to send money to Thai banks which they desperately want. 

Embassies. Keep in mind only 4 stopped "letter"

[DrJack54]

Off topic but oz members be aware au embassy no longer doing stat dec for things such as residence verification. A##holes.

[Thomas J]

3 hours ago, onera1961 said:

There are many ways to do it.

I opened an account with Bangkok bank using a Tourist visa and documents listed in their web site, including an embassy letter.

You can get an O/A visa from your home country eliminating any requirement for an extension for the next two years and take you time to open an account. If you at all desire. 

You can get a Thai (not a bar girl but with a a respected job like a teacher or a government job) to accompany you to open a bank account. 
You can walk around randomly to visit many branches and someone will open an account (most often quoted method in TVF but least practical way to guarantee any success)

You can pay an agent. 

If you're from an Asian country, you can buy an insurance to open an account. Very difficult for Americans due to FATCA

Remember the saying - where there is a will, there is way.

I don't know how long ago you and others attempted to open an account here.  I have done so over the past 4 months.  The only bank that would open an account was Bangkok bank and that was because I was a US citizen.  Even then I had to buy an insurance policy and have an authorization letter from Jomtien immigration.  I even had my 0 Visa 90 day Visa and despite that they all said it had to be a 1 year Visa in order to open.  I was not told about a certificate of residence.  None of the five banks I went to said anything about that.  They all stated they needed a 1 year non resident O visa to open.  So again, how does a person who next year wants to come to Thailand to live and no longer can get an embassy letter even start the process to get his/her 0 visa.  The banks will not open an account. Even if they did, immigration says the money must be seasoned for 3 months and the most a person can get as a tourist is a 90 day visa.  I am now fine.  I went to the US embassy and got my income verification letters.  However without those, I would have been in exactly what I think people are going to face going forward.  They can't open a bank account without a bank account and $800K baht and they can't get started on the Visa process without the bank account. 

[Thomas J]

7 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Embassies. Keep in mind only 4 stopped "letter"

I was not aware of that.  I thought perhaps the Thai government was trying to lob the blame on the foreign embassies.  Seems to make no sense that the embassies would refuse to do them either.  The US embassy got $50 for just stamping a piece of paper that obligated them to nothing. 

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

I was not aware of that.  I thought perhaps the Thai government was trying to lob the blame on the foreign embassies.  Seems to make no sense that the embassies would refuse to do them either.  The US embassy got $50 for just stamping a piece of paper that obligated them to nothing. 

I can only speak about AU embassy. The stat dec was simply the embassy affirming they witnessed you signing S.D. You didn't even need show any income statements. Nothing. As I understand it Thai imm wanted embassies to VERIFY the income. Completely different ballgame. They were not prepared to VERIFY. 

Edited January 27, 2019 by DrJack54
Error

[steve73]

6 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

I was not aware of that.  I thought perhaps the Thai government was trying to lob the blame on the foreign embassies.  Seems to make no sense that the embassies would refuse to do them either.  The US embassy got $50 for just stamping a piece of paper that obligated them to nothing. 

As I understand it Thai Immigration asked all the embassies to "verify" that the income stated on their letter was correct.  4 of the embassies felt they were unable to verify to a satisfactory standard, and so stopped issuing the letters.

Quite why the other embassies are still able to issue letters which may or may not verify to the necessary standard is unclear (at least to me).

[Thomas J]

4 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I can only speak about AU embassy. The stat dec was simply the embassy affirming they witnessed you signing S.D. You didn't even need show any income statements. Nothing. As I understand it Thai imm wanted embassies to VERIFY the income. Completely different ballgame. They were not prepared to VERIFY. 

 

So in effect it was the Thai government mandated that the embassies act as auditors to verify income when they previously were not required to do so.  To me, the whole idea of verification of income should lie with Thailand.  They are the ones who establish the rules for the Visa.  Why should then embassies and not the immigration bureau not be the party responsible for getting 12 months worth of bank statements and establishing that the person has a $65K baht minimum income.  Seems pretty simple to me. 

[marcusarelus]

15 minutes ago, steve73 said:

As I understand it Thai Immigration asked all the embassies to "verify" that the income stated on their letter was correct.  4 of the embassies felt they were unable to verify to a satisfactory standard, and so stopped issuing the letters.

Quite why the other embassies are still able to issue letters which may or may not verify to the necessary standard is unclear (at least to me).

No, Thailand didn't ask all embassies.  If they did please provide link. 

[steve73]

8 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

No, Thailand didn't ask all embassies.  If they did please provide link. 

I qualified my statement as I was not sure, but it would make sense to ask the same of every embassy.

I take it you know for a fact that not every embassy was asked.  Please provide a link..

[Thomas J]

7 minutes ago, steve73 said:

I qualified my statement as I was not sure, but it would make sense to ask the same of every embassy.

I take it you know for a fact that not every embassy was asked.  Please provide a link..

Apparently the post was correct.  This article references the British Embassy in Bankok statement that they are stopping the verification letters because of 'THE THAI REQUIREMENTS THAT THAI REQUIREMENTS THAT THEY VERIFY INCOME"   


Read more at https://www.thephuketnews.com/income-statement-letters-from-embassies-no-longer-required-confirms-phuket-immigration-69438.php#oTCFQXrpqDdY60Sq.99

[Pattaya46]

59 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

// As I understand it Thai imm wanted embassies to VERIFY the income. Completely different ballgame. They were not prepared to VERIFY. 

Not prepared??

Probably 10 years (if not more) than Thai Immigration ask for "letter verifying the income" 

 

52 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

So in effect it was the Thai government mandated that the embassies act as auditors to verify income when they previously were not required to do so.  

Wrong. As I said it was a very old requirement.

 

17 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

// they are stopping the verification letters because of 'THE THAI REQUIREMENTS THAT THAI REQUIREMENTS THAT THEY VERIFY INCOME"   

See above.

 

Other sources say that it was Embassy's internal audits in preparation of new Personal Data Protection Laws that lead to this situation, and it's the scenario I personally find the most credible. 

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

To me, the whole idea of verification of income should lie with Thailand.  They are the ones who establish the rules for the Visa.

 

 

The embassies agreed. Fortunately, Thailand will now be verifying, just they've been doing all along w/ the deposit method. :)

 

Quote

  Seems pretty simple to me. 

1

 

Yep, really is. Dunno why so many here find it so complicated except that they want to.  

[Thomas J]

Consider, if you are from the USA and I would guess it is the same with other countries if you want an OA visa you apply at the Thai Embassy in that country.  It is then the responsibility of the Thai Embassy in that country to verify that you meet the income requirements before issuing the visa.  Why should it be any different in Thailand?  If it is a Thai immigration requirement, the responsibility rightfully belongs to the Thai government who imposes the requirement.  Why should the governments of other countries be responsible for auditing  and verifying the income requirement?   To say that the Embassies of the USA, Australia, U.K. etc. should gear up to verify is ludicrous.  The Thai immigration offices should have an area where you bring in your bank statements, or tax returns to verify your income.  That is the simplest and most efficient solution.  But this is government.  That says all it needs to about making sense or being efficient. 

[JLCrab]

17 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

The Thai immigration offices should have an area where you bring in your bank statements, or tax returns to verify your income. 

Staffed not by RTP IMM police officers but by chartered accounts with forensic training to catch the bunco types.

[Marius Brok]

On 1/25/2019 at 3:09 PM, DrJack54 said:

You will be able to open a Thai bank account. There are threads on Thaivisa advising just do a search. I also had several knock backs when I first tried to open one. Don't waste time with local branch. Go head office. 

What to do with proof of 800000 Baht the same day and you are living in Isaan? Have to go to CW in Bangkok. I need bank as close as possible where I live.

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Consider, if you are from the USA and I would guess it is the same with other countries if you want an OA visa you apply at the Thai Embassy in that country.  It is then the responsibility of the Thai Embassy in that country to verify that you meet the income requirements before issuing the visa.

 

 

And so they do. Applicants submit a certified bank statement of the required income.

 

Quote

The Thai immigration offices should have an area where you bring in your bank statements, or tax returns to verify your income.  That is the simplest and most efficient solution.  But this is government .  That says all it needs to about making sense or being efficient. 

 

But they already have such desk. And there you will bring your bankbook, copies, and a letter from the bank. Not tax returns. Efficient enough and certainly sensible. It would probably be more efficient and sensible for you to read and understand the system and new requirements before posting.  

[Thomas J]

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

Big Star, 

Yes they do but not to verify income.  That is what the post referenced.  Perhaps you should read the post first before responding incorrectly.  DUH

 

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

And so they do. Applicants submit a certified bank statement of the required income.

 

 

But they already have such desk. And there you will bring your bankbook, copies, and a letter from the bank. Not tax returns. Efficient enough and certainly sensible. It would probably be more efficient and sensible for you to read and understand the system and new requirements before posting.  

 

[marcusarelus]

5 hours ago, steve73 said:

I qualified my statement as I was not sure, but it would make sense to ask the same of every embassy.

I take it you know for a fact that not every embassy was asked.  Please provide a link..

You made the statement not I.  It is up to you to prove not me to disprove. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

[Pattaya46]

4 hours ago, Thomas J said:

The Thai immigration offices should have an area where you bring in your bank statements, or tax returns to verify your income.

That is the simplest and most efficient solution.  //

They don't need; They have a way simpler solution that works well for decade: The Embassy Letter.

Verifying all kind of foreign accounting documents in foreign languages would just be impossible.

They added a method to help those who can't have this letter anymore. Up to you to use it... or another one.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, Marius Brok said:

What to do with proof of 800000 Baht the same day and you are living in Isaan? Have to go to CW in Bangkok. I need bank as close as possible where I live.

If you have to go elsewhere to find a cooperative branch, you can still get the letter from a closer branch from the one where you opened the account.  Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this is the case.

 

The downside, is you may pay fees for ATM withdrawals when "out of area" of where you opened the account - even using your bank-brand ATMs.  Check with the bank's policy.

Edited January 27, 2019 by JackThompson

[jacko45k]

6 hours ago, Thomas J said:

 

So in effect it was the Thai government mandated that the embassies act as auditors to verify income when they previously were not required to do so.  To me, the whole idea of verification of income should lie with Thailand.  They are the ones who establish the rules for the Visa.  Why should then embassies and not the immigration bureau not be the party responsible for getting 12 months worth of bank statements and establishing that the person has a $65K baht minimum income.  Seems pretty simple to me. 

Perceptions can vary. I expected the Thai authorities always wanted some form of verification, verification of pension or income claims they have absolutely no access to. At one time Embassy involvement was not required, IO were expected to review a plethora of multi language documents to ascertain they proved a person had income. Along came the Embassy idea, I suspect Immigration loved getting rid of an onerous task and passing it off to another body, more able to do the job. But they actually didn't do the job required.

Now guess what, the person applying has to get the proof, I doubt immigration will go get it as you infer. 

Immigration acted quickly to offer a solution to the 4 country's nationals whose Embassies had yanked a carpet from under them at short notice. 

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

Yes they do but not to verify income. 

At the desk where they check your other documents, they also verify your income by checking whether your submitted bank records and bank letter meet their requirements.

[Pilotman]

On 1/26/2019 at 7:35 PM, TunnelRat69 said:

In Jom Tien, go to the SCB  branch on the Beach Road, (Soi 11) the Branch in Pattaya Central Festival won't open an account unless you have a work permit - boggles the mind.  In Bangkok to to Bangkok Bank or SCB on the first floor of The Emporium, say it is for a Condo Purchase and fixed deposit.  I had no problems opening an account, and neither have my friends. 

SCB at BIG C, Pattaya South will open an account if you have an extension of stay on a Non O visa, no other requirements, bar something showing your address.  I used my Thai Driving Licence for that. 

[Thomas J]

4 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Perceptions can vary. I expected the Thai authorities always wanted some form of verification, verification of pension or income claims they have absolutely no access to. At one time Embassy involvement was not required, IO were expected to review a plethora of multi language documents to ascertain they proved a person had income. Along came the Embassy idea, I suspect Immigration loved getting rid of an onerous task and passing it off to another body, more able to do the job. But they actually didn't do the job required.

Now guess what, the person applying has to get the proof, I doubt immigration will go get it as you infer. 

Immigration acted quickly to offer a solution to the 4 country's nationals whose Embassies had yanked a carpet from under them at short notice. 

You say that the 4 embassies yanked a carpet.  No the way I read it, Thailand changed the rules.  They no longer wanted just the affidavit, they demanded the embassies verify the income and the four countries chose not to get involved in a process for another country's requirement that put them in a position as an auditor.  The process for an O non immigrant visa requires a 65K baht monthly income.  If the person is just arriving in Thailand, and Thailand refuses to view his bank statement from his native country, that is an impossibility.  As I see it, and I still have even one person address this, HOW IS A PERSON SUPPOSED TO OPEN A BANK ACCOUNT IN THAILAND WITHOUT A 1 YEAR VISA.  i have been to five banks including two branches of SCB, and Krungsri banks ALL OF THEM REFUSED TO OPEN AN ACCOUNT WITHOUT A 1 YEAR VISA and that was even with my Fiance who is Thai having an account at SCB.  Further, the $800 baht has to be aged for 3 months. The bank told me this as did the immigration office in Jomtien.  The first 0 visa is only for 90 days.  So even if a person was able to secure an account as the same day they received their O Visa and deposit the same day it would not be aged.  IT APPEARS TO ME THAT THE ONLY THING THAT THAILAND DID WAS TO PUT PEOPLE IN A CATCH 22.  They can no longer get an income verification at the 4 embassies, they can not open a bank account in Thailand without a Visa and they can't get a Visa without a bank account.  Perhaps those posting opened accounts some years ago when the banks were less restrictive.  The answer find a friendly branch does not cut it.  As stated, I went to 5 banks and 7 branches and all were the same. NO 1 YEAR VISA, NOT ALLOWED TO OPEN AN ACCOUNT. 

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

They no longer wanted just the affidavit

They never wanted a affidavit, their error was accepting it!

Sorry, I wasn't discussing getting bank accounts. 

Edited January 27, 2019 by jacko45k

[Jingthing]

They don't need; They have a way simpler solution that works well for decade: The Embassy Letter.
Verifying all kind of foreign accounting documents in foreign languages would just be impossible.
They added a method to help those who can't have this letter anymore. Up to you to use it... or another one.

A new method of questionable actual real life acceptance at this point in time.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Thomas J]

5 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

SCB at BIG C, Pattaya South will open an account if you have an extension of stay on a Non O visa, no other requirements, bar something showing your address.  I used my Thai Driving Licence for that. 

i have attempted to open an account at that office.  They told me and one a different date my fiance who is Thai.  No account openings except for a 1 year retirement Visa.  They said nothing about residency verification or a thai drivers license.  Perhaps that is how you were able to open the account.  I can tell you without it, the only thing they would accept was a 1 year Visa.   I went a second time with my first 0 visa which was for 90 days and again told, 1 year visa not just an 0 visa was required.