Buying a condo - joint ownership 50% foreigner & 50% Thai

[Jaffacake]

My girlfriend and I are planning to buy a condo sometime in the future and have been looking at a few developments recently. 

 

We have found one that is particularly interesting and was having a discussion with the sales girl today. The subject of mortgages, and me being the main breadwinner and also being foreign came up in the conversation and obviously poses some problems.

 

My girlfriend doesn't earn anywhere near as much as I do so that would limit the size of loan we could get. I would also be reluctant to put the whole property in her name as I would be paying the majority of the mortgage back and it leaves me somewhat expose should things ever not work out with us in the future. 

 

One thing the sales person did say was possible was for me to pay 50 % of the cost of the property in cash, and then my girlfriend mortgage the other 50% of the property making us joint owners. This sounds like a feasible workaround but i'm just wondering if this is actually possible, or just the sales person trying to get a sale by bending the truth. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge in this area?

 

Also I had read before that all money for the purchase of a condo must be sent to Thailand from a foreign country in the original currency. Without proof of this, a foreigner cannot register the condo in their name. Is this true?

 

I work in Thailand, and what I would be using to finance this condo would be money I had earned since being here (Paid in Thai Baht)

 

Any advice in these areas would be greatly appreciated 

[Peterw42]

The money would need to leave thailand and be sent back, some of the banks can help sending it to their branch in another country, there is still an exchange loss.

100% of the money needs to come from outside Thailand to get foreign quota/title.

 

 

[Jaffacake]

Okay, thanks for clarifying that. Seems like a strange rule but it is what it is.

 

Any knowledge on the first point, the 50% ownership? 

[NCC1701A]

11 hours ago, Jaffacake said:

Any advice in these areas would be greatly appreciated 

buy the condo 100% in your name and have your girlfriend pay you in cash for the rent or have her help out in other ways.

 

don't buy any real estate in Thailand and certainly don't go into debt to do it.

 

make sure the condo is high enough so when you jump and hit the ground you are killed instantly.

 

 

[SheungWan]

One option is to buy the condo in her name. You put down in baht cash only the deposit sufficient for purchase and her taking out a mortgage. She takes out a mortgage. She is responsible for the mortgage payments but you give her a regular proportionate amount from your baht savings. If the relationship goes sour your lump sum loss is limited to the deposit amount, but you can just stop the payments to her. Keep an eye on the girl/her family taking out 'secret' loans against her ownership. This is the 'hidden' risk.

[MJKT2014]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

to get foreign quota

The other thing is to be sure you are entitled to foreign quota? I understand only 49% of a condo can be foreign quota, so trying to prove at least 51% is Thai is an impossible exercise? At least that's what the land dept told us.

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, MJKT2014 said:

The other thing is to be sure you are entitled to foreign quota? I understand only 49% of a condo can be foreign quota, so trying to prove at least 51% is Thai is an impossible exercise? At least that's what the land dept told us.

The condo block juristic person keeps track of, and supplies a letter, notifying the land office if a condo is in the foreign quota. The land office wont transfer to a foreigner without the document from Condo juristic.

 

 

[Delight]

 It is my understanding that joint ownership works as follows.

1) The condo must be registered at purchase in the foreign 49% allocation.

2) When it is transferred to you at the land office -at that point you can split the condo 50/50,

I think that it can only be 50/50 . That is my assumption based on the notion that only names (not percentages) are registered on the condominium title deed.

I stand to be corrected on that one!

The Thai Govt. is always happy for Thai's to take more of the foreign allocation.

A foreigner can never take a  part of the Thai allocation

 

 

[rak sa_ngop]

I read in another thread that joint-ownership means that both parties effectively own 100pc. If one party dies the other party still owns 100pc, ie half cannot be bequeathed to the dead party's estate.

 

This raises the question, can one party sell 100pc of the condo without the agreement of the second party?

[MJKT2014]

On 1/27/2019 at 10:54 AM, Peterw42 said:

The condo block juristic person keeps track of, and supplies a letter, notifying the land office if a condo is in the foreign quota. The land office wont transfer to a foreigner without the document from Condo juristic.

When we went to the land office they told us at the land office even if the juristic person from the condo notified the foreign quota that the land office could not verify it to be true or not, so that if we purchased believing to be within our foreign quota rights and later to be proved otherwise due to some dodgy juristic persons we would be making an illegal purchase? They went on to say that it would help to have a Thai partner to cover for this purchase scenario or take the risk and go it alone. 

[from the home of CC]

If she is going to mortgage for the 50% and she has no sufficient income they will probably want a co sign of some sort. If you co sign and the relationship goes south you're on the hook, bottom line.

[KittenKong]

19 hours ago, MJKT2014 said:

When we went to the land office they told us at the land office even if the juristic person from the condo notified the foreign quota that the land office could not verify it to be true or not, so that if we purchased believing to be within our foreign quota rights and later to be proved otherwise due to some dodgy juristic persons we would be making an illegal purchase?

Yes. Amazingly, the Land Office just takes the word of the JPM about this. It seems astonishing to me, given how totally dishonest many JPMs are.

 

That said, once you own it it's yours. But if you buy in your name and then later find that the ratio in your building has been falsified and is over 49% then you may only be able to sell it to a Thai.

[Suitcase]

Keep it simple!

Why complicate matters.

If you have to buy, 100% in your name.

99% chance it will go south.

[stancatts]

• Please do not buy a condo in Thailand - every step of the way is problematic. The land office is a night mare for foreigners, whether buying, selling or transferring title. There is a law for thais and if there are laws for foreigners, they are used to protect thais. The thai gf can borrow on the title without your knowledge; and she can easily obtain a court order to have the condo sold at any price - without your agreement - and court costs will be awarded against you. There is only one reason why thais want their name on a title - to take the money when they want, which could be after a simple argument or at the direction of other family members in need of money. Why would you buy a condo anyway? They are a terrible investment, and they are hard to sell or let. Its a renters market - for goodness sake please rent - it will be sooooo much cheaper and safer. Never raise the idea with your thai gf of buying a condo again. All it will do is damage your relationship. If you must buy, ONLY buy in your name - tell your gf you borrowed the money and the lender insists it be in your name only.    

[dorayme]

It is best to consult an attorney. It is unlikely the land office will register a condo in both a foreign and Thai name. Probably either one or the other. I believe a condo purchased in the foreign quota will be easier to sell. Banks will not make loans to foreign persons.

[Jonnapat]

50 50 not a good idea as it causes problems if you want to sell, as I discovered a number of years ago. 

[Happy Grumpy]

On 1/27/2019 at 9:48 AM, NCC1701A said:

buy the condo 100% in your name and have your girlfriend pay you in cash for the rent or have her help out in other ways.

 

Yes.

 

If need of a mortgage to fund it. Get a loan from your home country, and transfer that with the rest of your purchase funds to purchase it. 

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

Yes.

 

If need of a mortgage to fund it. Get a loan from your home country, and transfer that with the rest of your purchase funds to purchase it. 

IMHO any guy in need of raising a loan to purchase a property in Thailand should be put in a straitjacket until he stops the craziness.

[SheungWan]

On 1/29/2019 at 1:36 PM, from the home of CC said:

If she is going to mortgage for the 50% and she has no sufficient income they will probably want a co sign of some sort. If you co sign and the relationship goes south you're on the hook, bottom line.

All the more reason for her to raise a mortgage for the 100% less the deposit, less any lump sum from her. Your contribution to paying off the mortgage is equivalent to being a tenant. Stay away from signing any legal responsibility either for the purchase, the mortgage or the repayments.

[MyFriend You]

On 1/28/2019 at 12:04 PM, rak sa_ngop said:

I read in another thread that joint-ownership means that both parties effectively own 100pc. If one party dies the other party still owns 100pc, ie half cannot be bequeathed to the dead party's estate.

 

This raises the question, can one party sell 100pc of the condo without the agreement of the second party?

TIT  everything is possible, there have been oodles of posts on TVF to protect yourself............just do a search.

[jackdd]

Why do you want to buy? Just rent

Probably you want to buy because your GF told you that buying makes much more sense than renting, right? That's not necessarily true, especially if you might run into problems later if you should break up and then own a condo together.

Do the only sensible approach: She buys it 100% on her name, with a mortage which she takes 100% in her name.

You just "rent" it from her (paying the monthly mortage payments, or a portion of it).

If you ever break up you can just walk away from it, like from any other rented place.

If you are still together in 20 years when it's paid off, great you can now live at this condo rent free with your then wife.

[Jaffacake]

I want to buy because it makes more sense for me to be paying my mortgage off rather than someone else's. It was my suggestion not hers, as it seems stupid to throw money down the drain if there is an alternative. 

 

We actually decided the best option was to put it either in her name 100%, and I rent to her (as above) or 100% in my name and she pays rent to me. Seems far too risky to do anything 50/50 here 

 

Thanks for the advice everyone 

[YT3k72Em]

13 hours ago, Jaffacake said:

I want to buy because it makes more sense for me to be paying my mortgage off rather than someone else's. It was my suggestion not hers, as it seems stupid to throw money down the drain if there is an alternative. 

 

We actually decided the best option was to put it either in her name 100%, and I rent to her (as above) or 100% in my name and she pays rent to me. Seems far too risky to do anything 50/50 here 

 

Thanks for the advice everyone 

Renting is not throwing money away. Find out what the mortgage payments would be, then find out what it would cost to rent an equivalent unit in the building. Compare the numbers. There is a huge oversupply of condos which keeps the rental price down, making financially the much better choice.

 

Then consider the renting number is the maximum you will pay. The mortgage number is the minimum you will pay. Add on condo fees and maintenance, furniture, renovation costs.