Does being rejected for an extension make it dicier to then go to an agent

[Jingthing]

 

 
This is an academic question that I've been wondering about that I think may have more relevance for more people in this new era of embassy letters having been cut off for some major nationalities (and potentially more to come). 
 
I'm speaking of income applications (and also combo ones) attempted without embassy letters. There is a lot of uncertainty about their enforcement as they are so new and we're getting mixed messages from the front lines, especially for combo ones.
 
So thus this topic.
 
Suppose you file an application for an income method (or combo) without an embassy letter and for whatever reason it is rejected. Perhaps you are told you needed to do a full bank seasoned application instead but so sorry you're now too late.
 
So what to do?
 
Try to start all over of course if you can with a new O visa (major PITA)
 
(OR)
 
Go to an agent that can hook a brother up with an 800K bank application seasoned in a way that isn't at all Kosher, but heck, some people seem to have been doing it that way for years and keep saying people that don't are uptight fools that don't understand the "real" TIT. So what's your hangup?
 
So my 65,000 baht question here is -- would doing an agency application with all its real and insinuated non compliance be riskier or even impossible if they have a recent record of a rejected but legitimate application attempt (income method without embassy letter)? 
 
I've never read anyone ask that question here before. So here it is. I'm asking for my Aunt Fanny in Dubuque.
Edited 22 hours ago by Jingthing
 

  People that use agencies are normally trying to avoid complying with the rules, seems like that is what you are trying to do?  Nope. I have no desire to ever use an agent if I can avoid it. You would know that already if you read the thread. In fact it's in the OP implied in stating it is an academic question.

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[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, moontang said:

Was it Vientiane, where applicants got rejected, when they were suspected of using an agent?  So, I agree, that the entire agent thing could end abruptly.  Like mandatory registration and licensing of agents.

That's quite interesting if true.

Maybe once you go agent, you better stay agent. 

 

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, balo said:

To answer your question : If you want to use an agent do it as the first option , not second option.

 

Because it will always work, I have never heard of anyone over 50 being denied visas based on retirement. As long as they pay the fees. 

 

You can call it illegal all you want , but if you ask the agent , they will tell you it's 100% legal. Up to you as they say. 

 

   

The last place I would go for legal advice is to such an agent. 

I get that they provide a service but I find it hilarious that anyone would rely on them for such advice. 

[tropo]

20 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

If you make an application and it is not accepted there is no record of it in your passport or anywhere else.

If it was accepted and you paid the 1900 baht fee and it was denied you would get a stamp granting you 7 days to leave the country.

One should go about 30 days early to save having to rush for a solution.

[notamember]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The last place I would go for legal advice is to such an agent. 

I get that they provide a service but I find it hilarious that anyone would rely on them for such advice. 

Immigration and agents have a symbiotic relationship, i find it hilarious that someone would dismiss that close working relationship as a useful advise resource

[notamember]

8 hours ago, SamuiGeezer said:

 

 

People that use agencies are normally trying to avoid complying with the rules, seems like that is what you are trying to do? 

seems to me that people who use agents are trying to comply with the rules as best they can. If they weren't, why would they pay 20,000+ to an agent to try to stay legal? why not save that money for an overstay fine ? 

[Liverpudlian]

15000 bht jobs a good'n. just did mine ????

[notamember]

17 minutes ago, Liverpudlian said:

15000 bht jobs a good'n. just did mine ????

was 800,000 deposited in your bank account?

 

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, farangx said:

The IO having checked my paperwork add an extension stamp in my passport and signed it.  Then directed me to the next table to have my photo taken, "you collect tomorrow" he said. Don't know what he will do if the extension was denied, rip that page out of the passport?

 

Or perhaps simply stamp CANCELLED across it?

[onera1961]

20 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

My view on it is expressed in my final sentence - convoluted logic, but a loophole nonetheless, and legal. 

Why does this loop hole exist? We can debate all along but we would never now the intent of the law makers. Intent is always interpreted by a judge (at least in the USA). May be if one goes through an agent the IO believes the agent more than an unknown desperate farang entity because of agent's personal rapport with the IO cultivated over the years. For example, if you want to get a job, who the hiring guy is going to believe? Your sad story of unable to feed your family or somebody the manager personally knows who can explain your current predicament? 

[onera1961]

12 hours ago, SamuiGeezer said:

People that use agencies are normally trying to avoid complying with the rules, seems like that is what you are trying to do? 

What specific rule they're trying to circumvent? If they are less than 50 agent will not take the application. If they are on TE or visa exemption, agent will take it and process it by first converting it to Non-O. I don't see any rule they are trying to circumvent. There is no rules against borrowing 800K. There is already a rule for IO to waive the seasoning requirement. On the other hand, I will say people with less income than 65K/month were getting away with an "income letter" easily and cheaply. 

[JLCrab]

58 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

What specific rule they're trying to circumvent?

I have no idea what Mr. Big Joke will do or will not do as new head of Immigration but it seems he has developed a penchant for doing things that people have said that he will never do.
 

[farangx]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Or perhaps simply stamp CANCELLED across it?

I will have to take that up with him, why did he abused my government property in such a manner. ????

 

[Lacessit]

Probably dicier for the OP's pocket if the agent knows he has been previously rejected.

[moontang]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Probably dicier for the OP's pocket if the agent knows he has been previously rejected.

Reminds me of a mechanics sign:

Labor Rates:. 40 per hour...you help 60 per hour...you worked on it first 80 per hour.

[balo]

Its the same as a loan really, you borrow 800k from someone, then normally the money needs to be locked up for around 3 months. But you don't have to do that using an agent. At least not yet.

[RocketDog]

On 1/29/2019 at 9:32 AM, tgeezer said:

I wonder about dispensing with an agent after multiple years. If the situation is as corrupt as people say this should be a problem.


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First, I agree with Jack. As in most things dealing with bureaucracy, it is better to start the process early and give yourself reaction margin, regardless of the country in question. 

 

Second, I made a decision when first arriving here and interviewing a sleazy agent that I would start the process myself from the beginning and just grit my teeth and learn the ropes. 

Ive read that once you use an agent that does things not really legitimate you are always thereafter in peril if you do it yourself. The agent's past sins become your sins. 

 

So for the last two years I've followed these discussions and dug deeper with the experts here, even keeping written notes to myself. It has served me well as I'm not ignorant and hostage to the vagaries of using an agent. 

 

If you know and follow the rules it saves a heap of restless nights, not to mention unnecessary fees. I have an ingrained distrust for 'middle men' in all situations and consider most of them simply leeches. 

 

Granted that this requires a certain effort at staying informed of the ever-changing landscape of Thai Immigration law and actual practice at the various IO locations. 

 

Maybe it's just my preferred style of 'inquiring minds want to know' but it has worked for me so far. 

 

I should note that I am lucky enough to be able to keep the required 800k in the bank, which I understand is a hardship for others. Naturally this simplifies my life considerably. 

 

Good luck to all in your attempts and my thanks for posting your experiences here. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 12:48 PM, JLCrab said:

I have no idea what Mr. Big Joke will do or will not do as new head of Immigration but it seems he has developed a penchant for doing things that people have said that he will never do.
 

Yes he does.

On that note, as the thing all the TIT people have always said would NEVER happened, is happening. 

Goodbye agents.

As the OP of this thread, it is obviously totally IRRELEVANT now, so I request that it be CLOSED.