Jailed and Banned for 6 Years because of exchange rates

[Khaeng Mak]

I currently use my FCD account to renew my retirement extension.

Under the new rules I will now have to leave the equivalent of 400K thb in my account at all time to ensure my extension remain valid.

What if there is a correction or flash crash in my FCD currency (like the one with the Aussie dollar just a few weeks ago) and the balance of my account drops down below the equivalent of 400K (even for just a brief period).

 

What If I don't notice this, and show up for my next annual extension, and immigration notices that more than six months ago my account had under the equivalent of 400K in it.

 

Am I then sent to the IDC and banned from Thailand for 5 years for being on 6 months overstay?

Edited January 31, 2019 by Khaeng Mak

[Tanoshi]

Your mistaken, the existing order for using funds deposited in a Thai bank hasn't changed.

400K in a Thai bank account for 2 months prior to the date of application.

There is only an amendment and change if using the monthly income method.

 

As you'll already have been granted permission to stay for 12 months, you cannot be on overstay at the date your extension is due for renewal.

If your funds in the FCD account did not meet the equivalent of 400K due to exchange fluctuations, you can always apply for a Non Imm O ME Visa at Savannakhet, no proof of funds required, until you can top up your account or the exchange rate changes in your favour.

 

No jail, no ban.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Khaeng Mak]

3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Your mistaken, the existing order for using funds deposited in a Thai bank hasn't changed.

400K in a Thai bank account for 2 months prior to the date of application.

There is only an amendment and change if using the monthly income method.

 

As you'll already have been granted permission to stay for 12 months, you cannot be on overstay at the date your extension is due for renewal.

If your funds in the FCD account did not meet the equivalent of 400K due to exchange fluctuations, you can always apply for a Non Imm O ME Visa at Savannakhet, no proof of funds required, until you can top up your account or the exchange rate changes in your favour.

 

No jail, no ban.

 

 

No. Under the new rules you have to have a minimum of the equivalent of 400Kthb in your account at all times.  If you don't your extension will be invalid.  Same as when you are on a Non B extension but you lose your job. 

[tingtongtourist]

4 minutes ago, Khaeng Mak said:

No. Under the new rules you have to have a minimum of the equivalent of 400Kthb in your account at all times.  If you don't your extension will be invalid.  Same as when you are on a Non B extension but you lose your job. 

i cant see where it said "at all times"?

 

stated for retirement, to must show every 3 months, i guess if and when reporting address.

 

so you can draw on the money in bank for nearly 3 months but top it up to the right amount just before you go to immigration

 

[impulse]

If a change in the exchange rate is going to put you in that kind of a bind, I'd suggest you start looking for a place that offers a "quit working" visa instead of a retirement visa.  If anyone can't keep a liquid 10,000 GBP available for emergencies, health care issues, etc, they aren't really retired.  They just quit working. 

 

And anyone not willing to leave that dosh on deposit in the country that welcomes them as a retiree isn't showing enough dedication to the host country to deserve a retirement visa.

 

Agree with that, disagree with that...  It doesn't matter.  That's the way Thai Immigration apparently sees it.

 

Edit:  And to be honest, I don't think they're being unreasonable.  Though I do admit my heart goes out to those who will be caught up in the change.  Just like it did when they quit allowing monthly visa runs ad infinitum.

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by impulse

[jackdd]

12 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

i cant see where it said "at all times"?

Imho this means "400k at all times":

Quote

The alien can withdraw the fund 3 months after being granted permission and the remaining balance must be no less than THB 400,00

 

26 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

As you'll already have been granted permission to stay for 12 months, you cannot be on overstay at the date your extension is due for renewal.

You have been granted an extension based on certain terms, i would say this is similar to somebody having an extension based on work and quitting the job, or somebody having an extension based on marriage and getting divorced. The extension will effectively end when the terms are not met any more (job, wife, and now money in bank).

While you will for sure notice when your job ends or you get divorced (and you know this date in advance), you might not notice when you don't have 400k in the bank. Even when you notice it, it's too late, you have been on overstay. Maybe a bank employee stole money from your account, has happened before, totally not your fault, can happen to anybody, but the day the money is gone you are on overstay.

 

So if this is how Thai immigration interprets this new police order you better check your account balance daily.

Edited January 31, 2019 by jackdd

[Khaeng Mak]

8 minutes ago, impulse said:

If a change in the exchange rate is going to put you in that kind of a bind, I'd suggest you start looking for a place that offers a "quit working" visa instead of a retirement visa.  If anyone can't keep a liquid 10,000 GBP available for emergencies, health care issues, etc, they aren't really retired.  They just quit working. 

 

And anyone not willing to leave that dosh on deposit in the country that welcomes them as a retiree isn't showing enough dedication to the host country to deserve a retirement visa.

 

Agree with that, disagree with that...  It doesn't matter.  That's the way Thai Immigration apparently sees it.

 

No.  It is all about managing my money to get the best returns.  Which isn't sitting in a Thai bank by the way. It will just be another thing to worry about, calculating how much margin above the 400K I have to leave locked up.  And if I get that wrong...booyah...overstay gravy for immigration.

[Tanoshi]

21 minutes ago, Khaeng Mak said:

No. Under the new rules you have to have a minimum of the equivalent of 400Kthb in your account at all times.  If you don't your extension will be invalid.  Same as when you are on a Non B extension but you lose your job. 

You should have been clearer in your topic post.

Your talking about the new order which affects funds for retirement extensions.

With only mentioning 400K and no mention of retirement, I assumed you were talking about extensions based on marriage

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, Khaeng Mak said:

No.  It is all about managing my money to get the best returns.  Which isn't sitting in a Thai bank by the way. 

 

An extra 5% on 10,000 is about 500 a year, or less than 50 per month.  Doesn't seem like much to give up in order to retire to someone else's country. 

 

About 1/5 of what many people gladly pay for an Elite Visa because they don't qualify for retirement or marriage extensions.

Edited January 31, 2019 by impulse

[Khaeng Mak]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

You should have been clearer in your topic post.

Your talking about the new order which affects funds for retirement extensions.

With only mentioning 400K and no mention of retirement, I assumed you were talking about extensions based on marriage

 

Sigh....

 

The very first line in my opening post is as follows:

 

Quote

I currently use my FCD account to renew my retirement extension.

 

Are you illiterate?

Edited January 31, 2019 by Khaeng Mak

[baansgr]

17 minutes ago, impulse said:

And anyone not willing to leave that dosh on deposit in the country that welcomes them as a retiree isn't showing enough dedication to the host country to deserve a retirement visa.

Some people have shown dedication for many years, some are asset rich and cash poor so to say yet still have the available amount each year for living expenditure. Its rather tiresome this attitude of shouldnt be here, go home etc. I would love for those to at some point in the future fall below the 400k by 10 baht for one day and then loose their extension.

[Tanoshi]

9 minutes ago, Khaeng Mak said:

Are you illiterate?

No, just tired.

Apologies, I missed the word 'retirement'.

[impulse]

9 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Some people have shown dedication for many years, some are asset rich and cash poor so to say yet still have the available amount each year for living expenditure. Its rather tiresome this attitude of shouldnt be here, go home etc. I would love for those to at some point in the future fall below the 400k by 10 baht for one day and then loose their extension.

 

True.  This is going to bite a lot of the guys who so gleefully scorn the overstayers whose dream life in Thailand was cut short by the elimination of the perpetual monthly visa runs.  Had they foreseen the changes, perhaps some of them would have chosen to invest in getting legal instead of buying cars, boats, Harley's, condo's and other goodies they had to fire-sale when they no longer had the funds to get legal. 

 

In your case, you may want to consider liquidating some of those assets you mentioned, turning them into cash.  Just in case the exchange rate falls, so you won't get caught out. 

 

Unlike the OP, most of us wouldn't blame it on the drop in the exchange rate.  We'd call it inadequate planning for likely contingencies.  That's part of financial planning...  Making sure the funds are in the right buckets.  Having 400K in a Thai bank account is just like having enough in the checking account when the real estate taxes and insurance are due in January every year.

 

 

[Khaeng Mak]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

 Having 400K in a Thai bank account is just like having enough in the checking account when the real estate taxes and insurance are due in January every year.

 

 

No it's not.  You will have to monitor your account balance every day.

[impulse]

10 minutes ago, Khaeng Mak said:

No it's not.  You will have to monitor your account balance every day.

 

Sure, if you keep 400,001 in the account.  

 

Or, you can keep 500,000 in the account, sacrifice around 8 GBP a month on the returns line and sleep soundly.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by impulse

[Tanoshi]

17 minutes ago, Khaeng Mak said:

No it's not.  You will have to monitor your account balance every day.

Not if you stick 400K in a fixed term account.

Put the rest in a Savings account for expenditures.

[SamuiGeezer]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

If a change in the exchange rate is going to put you in that kind of a bind, I'd suggest you start looking for a place that offers a "quit working" visa instead of a retirement visa.  If anyone can't keep a liquid 10,000 GBP available for emergencies, health care issues, etc, they aren't really retired.  They just quit working. 

Pfff I assume that you are not retired....

[Maestro]

54 minutes ago, Khaeng Mak said:

...It is all about managing my money to get the best returns.  Which isn't sitting in a Thai bank by the way...

In which country is the building with your branch of the non-Thai bank located?

[wpcoe]

I'm not familiar with foreign currency accounts, but might consider using one with the new changes (*if* I choose to remain in Thailand).  Does your bank book show the balance in the foreign currency or in the baht equivalent?  If the former (shows balance in foreign currency) how would Immigrations know that the amount had dipped below the THB400k (or THB800k in the relevant months)?  Do they have a computer program or app that calculates balances on a daily basis for the past year based on exchange rates?

[marcusarelus]

Since the retirement amount is 800,000 I don't understand what the OP is about unless he is talking about a combination method or means 400,000 in a different currency.  Anyway, who keeps 400,000K in a foreign currency account?  I'm assuming the poster is not talking about himself - only a circumstance that would be a problem. 

 

Looking at the posters other recent post I assume he is only trying to find problems and if that is the case it should be stated in the OP.  For example.  "Not me nor anyone I know but if .......... you do this what happens."  Just my opinion...

 

 

[overherebc]

In the OP I read the words or meaning   some retirees who 'can't prove' income

( no embassy letter ?? ) could be asked to show the 800,000 3 months down the line.

In that case they have been living on the income they couldn't show acceptable proof of ( rent from property at home, or such, that may not be regular figures ) bank book would show that.

After that they are required to show minimum 400,000 every 3 months. I read that point as being a minimum at the 'time of showing,' it could be less during the three months but needs topped up to 400,000 every three months, at 90 day reporting?

So, if someone has been living on 35,000 a month for years they can still stay living on 35,000 a month. The problem for them is the 800,000 for a few months, no agent is going to leave his 800,000 in the retirees bank for that length of time!!!

[overherebc]

In the OP I read the words or meaning   some retirees who 'can't prove' income

( no embassy letter ?? ) could be asked to show the 800,000 3 months down the line.

In that case then they have been living on the income they couldn't show acceptable proof of ( rent from property at home,or such, that may not be regular figures ) bank book would show that.

After that they are required to show minimum 400,000 every 3 months. I read that point as being a minimum at the 'time of showing,' it could be less during the three months but needs topped up to 400,000 every three months, at 90 day reporting?

So, if someone has been living on 35,000 a month for years they can still stay living on 35,000 a month. The problem for them is the 800,000

Re the 90 day reporting point, if you out/in before every 90 days it resets the reporting clock so will you have to show finances at the airport/border as you don't need to do 90 day reports?

[onera1961]

7 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Not if you stick 400K in a fixed term account.

Is fixed term account acceptable? And what's the highest  interest rate in a  fixed term account?

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, Khaeng Mak said:

Am I then sent to the IDC and banned from Thailand for 5 years for being on 6 months overstay?

You had a valid Permission of Stay in your passport, it won't be revoked retroactively! How they will police you having the 400k minimum between months 3 to 6 is not clear yet. Best guess, only possible when you renew. 

[JAS21]

8 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You had a valid Permission of Stay in your passport, it won't be revoked retroactively! How they will police you having the 400k minimum between months 3 to 6 is not clear yet. Best guess, only possible when you renew. 

It's the unexpected/unplanned bill that could be a problem ... I always keep much more than 800Kthb available BUT one day it could easily go down much lower until I can re-organise ... locking away 400K or transferring 40K each month is looking an option ...

 

 

 

 

 

[Tanoshi]

34 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Is fixed term account acceptable? And what's the highest  interest rate in a  fixed term account?

Yes, used it for the past 6 years.

You can withdraw without notice, but you'll lose some interest.

15% Tax automatically deducted from interest.

Reclaim the tax back every year.

 

Kasikorn offered 1,8% for a 3 year fixed term.

BKK equivalent 1.75%.

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, wpcoe said:

I'm not familiar with foreign currency accounts, but might consider using one with the new changes (*if* I choose to remain in Thailand).  Does your bank book show the balance in the foreign currency or in the baht equivalent?  If the former (shows balance in foreign currency) how would Immigrations know that the amount had dipped below the THB400k (or THB800k in the relevant months)?  Do they have a computer program or app that calculates balances on a daily basis for the past year based on exchange rates?

Based on my brief experience with a GBP FCD account with Bangkok Bank a few years ago, amounts are recorded in the passbook in the relevant foreign currency. So you would need constantly to monitor balances against the Bangkok Bank Notes Buying rate for the currency in question (which, as far as I know, is the rate which Immigration use for calculating compliance with extension of stay financial requirements), while keeping your fingers firmly crossed that these won't at any time dip below the equivalent of the required 400k/800k THB.

 

For peace of mind, definitely better to accumulate the required amounts upfront in a THB account IMHO, even if it means taking a hit on lousy exchange rates.

 

BTW I closed my FCD account after being stung by hefty charges for making transfers into it from my UK account.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Yes, used it for the past 6 years.

You can withdraw without notice, but you'll lose some interest.

15% Tax automatically deducted from interest.

Reclaim the tax back every year.

 

Kasikorn offered 1,8% for a 3 year fixed term.

BKK equivalent 1.75%.

Yup that's what I get.  How do you reclaim the tax and do you know if you can do it for a few years back?

[JAS21]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Yup that's what I get.  How do you reclaim the tax and do you know if you can do it for a few years back?

Go to your local tax office ... show them your paperwork and they will sort you out ...claiming back years you will be fined ...100 or 200thb ...can't remember.

 

Both MrsJ and myself forgot last year!!!

[Tanoshi]

41 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Yup that's what I get.  How do you reclaim the tax and do you know if you can do it for a few years back?

You have to file a return each year at your local tax office between the months Jan -Mar for tax deducted from the previous year. Firstly visit the bank and request a receipt of tax paid from the previous year. It helps greatly if you have your passbook new or old to trace the account.

 

When you first submit the claim the tax office will set up a personal account with username and password.

Take your passport and proof of address. (Tabien Baan or Utility bill will suffice).

From then on you can file online, but it's only in Thai. I just drop the receipt of each year and they do it online for me in about 2 minutes. A refund cheque will be sent to your home address, this can vary from 30 - 60 days usually.

Deposit cheque back into account of your choice.

 

There is no charge for claiming the previous years tax deducted.

I think there may be a time limit of 5 years on reclaims and a charge of 200 baht for late filing for each year claimed.

 

If you'd like a copy of the tax receipt you need from your bank send me a PM.

I'll be dropping by my bank next week, then onto the tax office.

Takes an hour of my time, once a year.

This is now the timeframe to submit your claim(s).

Edited February 1, 2019 by Tanoshi