Alternative Method to Meet THB 65K Monthly Foreign Income Deposit Requirement?

[gentlemanjackdarby]

I've been following all the threads regarding the recent changes to proving one's monthly income, but I must admit that I've been unable to read everything that's been posted in all threads, so if my idea has been posted for discussion before, I'd appreciate it if someone would point me to the thread.

 

It seems to me that it's worth considering the possibility of depositing one's personal check drawn, for an amount sufficient to meet the monthly income requirement, on one's bank back home in that currency, into a foreign currency account at one's bank in Thailand.

 

I would expect it likely that a Thai bank would have coding in the FCA (foreign currency account) to designate the deposit of a foreign check;

 

It is my understanding that an FCA is an acceptable account as proof of monthly income (as well as for lump-sum) so long as the FCA amount is equivalent to THB 65K at some point, for example, at the deposit date, at the date the IO reviews one's application, or some other date of the IO's choosing, etc.

 

Although it's been said that an FCA is acceptable for a visa or extension application, I would think it best, upon the clearing of the check by the Thai bank and the Thai bank making the deposit 'available' for use, to then transfer the deposit into one's THB at the same bank.

 

Of course, while the Thai bank likely won't give the 'best' conversion rate that one might get in Thailand, that rate has got to be better than the FYO (<deleted> You Over) rate given by American banks when one sends a SWIFT transfer

 

It would seem reasonable that one could prove that one's monthly income came from outside Thailand by giving the IO a copy of the FCA passbook or statement showing the USD check deposit (I'm using the USD since I'm an American) along with the passbook for the THB account showing the transfer from the FCA account and conversion to THB by the bank.

 

If one makes the transfer from the FCA account promptly and ensure that the amount of the check deposit is largish enough to account for (minor) fluctuations in the USD -> THB forex rates, one essentially 'locks in' (proves) that one had a monthly income of THB 65K for each month.

 

Now I know that Thailand banks don't promptly 'clear' a foreign check very quickly, which is no different than other foreign banks, and even some U.S. banks with which I'm familiar; I've read that it can take anywhere from 30 - 45 days for a Thai bank to make the deposit available.

 

I don't think it would be very hard to time the deposit of one's check to the FCA to take into account the delay in the funds being made available - for example, a deposit made on March 15 should be available by April 15 for a 30 day delay and by April 30 for a 45 day delay.

 

It would seem that a foreign check deposit would be a lot less expensive that a SWIFT transfer since one saves the SWIFT fee and the poor bank FYO currency conversion rate;

 

It would also seem that it would have fewer potential places for things to go wrong compared to Transferwise, such as a delay in deposit ( as some have reported happening recently) or a transfer not coded as 'FTT' (Foreign Telex Transfer).

 

I know of retired expats in the PI that use this method and those who say they use it are happy with it; of course, those folks aren't dealing with proving and reproving their monthly income, but it seems like it's something worth discussing.

 

New meat for the detail-oriented, so have at it and tear it apart!

[UKresonant]

Would a single SWIFT transfer not work? It would only cost me £9.60 flat fee to transfer UK GBP to GBP FCD account? 

 

(The bank that did the for me FCD would not, unfortunately, open a THB account without a work permit, as one of the promoted features was exactly that, facility to exchange directly from FCD to THB accounts!)

[gentlemanjackdarby]

1 hour ago, johnwf1963 said:

Would a single SWIFT transfer not work? It would only cost me £9.60 flat fee to transfer UK GBP to GBP FCD account? 

 

(The bank that did the for me FCD would not, unfortunately, open a THB account without a work permit, as one of the promoted features was exactly that, facility to exchange directly from FCD to THB accounts!)

One of the problems with U.S. banks is that it's possible to find banks where one can transfers USD to a USD account at a foreign bank, but most banks will only make SWIFT transfers in foreign currency, which is understandable since the bank makes money by offering a relatively poor FYO exchange rate (FYO rate - '<deleted> You Over).

 

And even for a USD to USD transfer, U.S. banks still charges a hefty wire transfer fee, usually in the neighborhood of USD 40 - 50.

 

You're lucky to have a fee of only GBP 9.60 (USD 12)

 

I know some folks have thrown out that Charles Schwab charges only USD 25 for an international wire transfer, but that is at Schwab International and they do not disclose their forex rates until one wishes to make a transfer, a clear red flag that the rate will likely not be competitive with options like Transferwise.

 

While Charles Schwab is to be commended for offering U.S. expatriates (those who are bona-fide non-U.S. residents with a non-U.S. address) an option to maintain a relationship, Charles Schwab International is not the same as Charles Schwab for U.S. residents, which does not offer international wire transfers; I'm not complaining since Charles Schwab gives us a great debit card.

 

Charles Schwab International requires a minimum balance to open an account of USD 25,000, which is a non-starter for those folks in the position of having to use the monthly income method to qualify for a visa or visa extension.

Edited February 5, 2019 by gentlemanjackdarby
Incorrectly used 'waiver' instead of 'extension'

[gentlemanjackdarby]

And after re-reading my OP (Post #1) and thinking about, would an IO even care if one's check (home country FCA deposit) was cleared (available) during a specific month?

 

It's likely all an IO would care about is seeing a deposit, in my case in USD, go into an FCA account each month and that that deposit, when converted to THB at the date of his choosing, is equal to or greater than THB 65K. 

[Airalee]

Bank of America will do swift transfers in USD 

[gentlemanjackdarby]

2 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Bank of America will do swift transfers in USD 

OK, but what's the fee?

 

[Airalee]

15 minutes ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

OK, but what's the fee?

 

I transferred $35000 for something like $35 or $45...can’t remember exactly.

[Huayrat]

44 minutes ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

One of the problems with U.S. banks is that it's possible to find banks where one can transfers USD to a USD account at a foreign bank, but most banks will only make SWIFT transfers in foreign currency, which is understandable since the bank makes money by offering a relatively poor FYO exchange rate (FYO rate - '<deleted> You Over).

 

And even for a USD to USD transfer, U.S. banks still charges a hefty wire transfer fee, usually in the neighborhood of USD 40 - 50.

 

You're lucky to have a fee of only GBP 9.60 (USD 12)

 

I know some folks have thrown out that Charles Schwab charges only USD 25 for an international wire transfer, but that is at Schwab International and they do not disclose their forex rates until one wishes to make a transfer, a clear red flag that the rate will likely not be competitive with options like Transferwise.

 

While Charles Schwab is to be commended for offering U.S. expatriates (those who are bona-fide non-U.S. residents with a non-U.S. address) an option to maintain a relationship, Charles Schwab International is not the same as Charles Schwab for U.S. residents, which does not offer international wire transfers; I'm not complaining since Charles Schwab gives us a great debit card.

 

Charles Schwab International requires a minimum balance to open an account of USD 25,000, which is a non-starter for those folks in the position of having to use the monthly income method to qualify for a visa or visa extension.

I do a swift transaction everymonth from GBP in London to GBP to the Bangkok bank so it's not sent in foreign currency.. Been doing this for 7 years

[gentlemanjackdarby]

19 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I transferred $35000 for something like $35 or $45...can’t remember exactly.

That sounds about right for BofA!

 

It wouldn't bother me to pay that amount for a one-time transfer of USD 35,000; that works out to just over one-tenth of one percent (O.00129 - 0.129%), which is essentially free.

 

The purpose of my post was to see if maybe my method would be of help to folks whose financial situation dictate that the rely on the income method for a retirement visa extension

 

After all, if one is relying on making a monthly transfer of, generously and for easy calculation, USD 2,500, BofA's fee would be about 1.8 percent - a different animal altogether and a fee which, taken annually, would likely be money folks relying on the income method could put to better use.

[gentlemanjackdarby]

18 minutes ago, Huayrat said:

I do a swift transaction everymonth from GBP in London to GBP to the Bangkok bank so it's not sent in foreign currency.. Been doing this for 7 years

Thanks for taking the time to read my post and reply and it's my mistake for not making it clearer in my OP, but I'm an American using USD that would be transferring from the U.S.

 

'jonwf1963' replied earlier that he pays GBP 9.60 for a transfer, which is a lot better than the fees us Yanks are stuck with - usually in the neighborhood of USD 40 - 50

[ChouDoufu]

what about cambodia?  you can open a $us savings account with a tourist visa and a hotel receipt.  according to ABA website, swift under $9k costs $15.

 

deposit four months of thai monthly required cash, send a swift monthly to your thailand account.  the online chat rep says it's possible to send a swift online if you set up their internet banking.  every 90 days collect your transferred cash, use whatever service to transfer back.  ....or go in person to cambodia to re-deposit and avoid 90-day reporting.

 

lather, rinse, repeat.

 

 

[dufus]

1 hour ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

I know some folks have thrown out that Charles Schwab charges only USD 25 for an international wire transfer, but that is at Schwab International and they do not disclose their forex rates until one wishes to make a transfer, a clear red flag that the rate will likely not be competitive with options like Transferwise.

 

While Charles Schwab is to be commended for offering U.S. expatriates (those who are bona-fide non-U.S. residents with a non-U.S. address) an option to maintain a relationship, Charles Schwab International is not the same as Charles Schwab for U.S. residents, which does not offer international wire transfers; I'm not complaining since Charles Schwab gives us a great debit card.

Been doing international SWIFT wire transfers to SCB for more than a dozen years with Schwab (US not International) as US resident in US dollars to US dollars at SCB which FX's it into Baht. Have been doing it every month since my last extension in prep for the next extension. Schwab's wire cost is $25 (sometimes waived), and the SCB FX cost into baht has generally been about $25 away from bid side quotes. Schwab is also competitive in FX if you prefer that route.

 

[gentlemanjackdarby]

38 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

what about cambodia?  you can open a $us savings account with a tourist visa and a hotel receipt.  according to ABA website, swift under $9k costs $15.

 

deposit four months of thai monthly required cash, send a swift monthly to your thailand account.  the online chat rep says it's possible to send a swift online if you set up their internet banking.  every 90 days collect your transferred cash, use whatever service to transfer back.  ....or go in person to cambodia to re-deposit and avoid 90-day reporting.

 

lather, rinse, repeat.

 

 

An idea I hadn't thought of, but it still leaves me with getting USD to Cambodia from the U.S. since I'll need to live on something; I made the OP trying to address the problem faced by folks who can't meet the THB 800K fixed deposit and who likely wouldn't have much beyond their monthly pension to be able to meet the THB 65K monthly income 

 

Moneygram will do USD transfers to Cambodia, but it's strange: If the funding source is a U.S. debit card, the transfer fee is 15 USD; from a U.S. bank account, it's USD 125.

 

Even at USD 15 from U.S. -> Cambodia and USD 15 from Cambodia -> Thailand, that's approaching a wire transfer fee from the U.S. direct to Thailand.

 

Thanks for reading and replying and especially for mentioning how easy it is to set up a bank account in Cambodia

[ChouDoufu]

you'd have to be in cambodia to open the account, so you'd carry whatever opening amount on your person. i suppose you could just deposit 75k baht and do monthly cambo-thai for $15, then xferwise or dee or whatever cheap service is offered for the return, since no need to absolutely have the FT coding in the cambo bank book.   start with a larger balance and only have to re-deposit every 3-4 months. other than the original starting balance sent to thailand and then your actual living expenses, there wouldn't be any funds sent from the us.

[thrilled]

Gentleman Jack.I live in the U.S.I have schwab banking and brokerage accounts.I'm able to transfer money to mt bank account in Thailand from my U.S. brokerage account.I do this monthly.

[eggers]

I use Currency Trader, World First, give Trade Statement w/ Bank Account details where funds from & where funds transferred to. Better currency rate than Banks, funds in Thai account within 3 - 4 days, costs equiv.  ($US 7.00, UKPnd 5.50).. 

[JLCrab]

There may be more exotic ways to get the 65K+ monthly int'l transfer into one's Thai bank account with a better fee and exchange rate than the plain vanilla bank SWIFT transfer. But until I see people actually getting their annual extension hassle-free with those more exotic means, I'm going to stick with the plain vanilla.

[skatewash]

Vanguard offers customers $10 SWIFT transfers.

[royalmice]

I use a service called Transferwise to transfer funds to my Thai Bank account.

It is cheaper than a swift transfer and you get much better exchange rate.  

 

You can get more info from there website : TRANSFERWISE

[mfd101]

As people dream up more and more exotic ways of moving funds around or of pretending to move funds around, they need to remember the poor IO stuck at his/her desk with a queue of 30 impatient falangs glaring at him ... He wants super-simple, super-clear, and the same ways (x2 or 3) EVERY time. He/she isn't going to spend 30 minutes arguing with someone who's dreamed up the perfect solution just for him.

 

Just like government policies in countries with MILLIONS - even HUNDREDS of MILLIONS - of citizens.  Many people seem to think there should be a policy just for them.

[xylophone]

18 minutes ago, royalmice said:

I use a service called Transferwise to transfer funds to my Thai Bank account.

It is cheaper than a swift transfer and you get much better exchange rate.  

 

You can get more info from there website : TRANSFERWISE

Yes and this has been discussed elsewhere on a number of threads BUT in many cases the funds which are deposited in a Thai account are not designated "International Transfer" or similar (because of the way Transferwise operates), so it could be a problems because Immigration might not accept that these funds come from overseas.

[jacko45k]

34 minutes ago, royalmice said:

I use a service called Transferwise to transfer funds to my Thai Bank account.

It is cheaper than a swift transfer and you get much better exchange rate.  

 

You can get more info from there website : TRANSFERWISE

Yes mentioned hundreds of times. The issue is whether the transfer lands in Thailand and is clearly labelled as a transfer from overseas as can be utilized in obtaining a retirement extension based on income. This is not always the case. 

[TheThai]

I think people should wait to see IF immigration will truly care if the 65k transfers have a FTT code attached to them. Unless you are doing a renewal Immediately at March 1.   I don't really think it's going to be the issue many here seem to think.  Rather they will only want to see that a minimum of 65k is being deposited each and every month.  I think people maybe OVER THINKING this policy. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by TheThai

[Henryford]

2 minutes ago, TheThai said:

I think people should wait to see IF immigration will truly care if the 65k transfers have a FTT code attached to them. Unless you are doing a renewal Immediately at March 1.   I don't really think it's going to be the issue many here seem to think.  Rather they will only want to see that a minimum of 65k is being deposited each and every month.  I think people maybe OVER THINKING this policy.  

I agree, i can't see Immigration checking maybe dozens of entries in your bank book to see if it has FTT on it and every bank will probably have a different code.

[Henricus]

monthly transfer 2000 euro from my dutch bank to my KTB Euro account cost me 5.20 euro

[xylophone]

7 minutes ago, TheThai said:

I think people should wait to see IF immigration will truly care if the 65k transfers have a FTT code attached to them. Unless you are doing a renewal Immediately at March 1.   I don't really think it's going to be the issue many here seem to think.  Rather they will only want to see that a minimum of 65k is being deposited each and every month.  I think people maybe OVER THINKING this policy. 

A well respected and wise member on TV who has a lot of knowledge on this and associated subjects, has said that the 65k pm into the bank account has to be from overseas.

 

And as for the IO not bothering to check these things, well at my last extension which was just three months ago, the IO got his offsider (a junior) to calculate what my actual pensions were in Thai baht (from pounds and NZ dollars) and then add everything together to make sure that in total my lump sum in my account and the pension came to over 800 K.........never seen them be that methodical before, and even then he was not very happy, suggesting that I might want to consider putting the whole 800K into the bank without bothering with the overseas transfers.

 

Different logic on different days by different people with different motives, and add to the fact that they might be in a grumpy mood, and you have every reason to suggest that as far as expats are concerned, everything has to be absolutely spot-on and not open to question.

 

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, xylophone said:

A well respected and wise member on TV who has a lot of knowledge on this and associated subjects, has said that the 65k pm into the bank account has to be from overseas.

 

And as for the IO not bothering to check these things, well at my last extension which was just three months ago, the IO got his offsider (a junior) to calculate what my actual pensions were in Thai baht (from pounds and NZ dollars) and then add everything together to make sure that in total my lump sum in my account and the pension came to over 800 K.........never seen them be that methodical before, and even then he was not very happy, suggesting that I might want to consider putting the whole 800K into the bank without bothering with the overseas transfers.

 

Different logic on different days by different people with different motives, and add to the fact that they might be in a grumpy mood, and you have every reason to suggest that as far as expats are concerned, everything has to be absolutely spot-on and not open to question.

 

Why were they checking 3 months ago, back then it was an embassy letter to verify income. 

[skatewash]

Quote

Of course, while the Thai bank likely won't give the 'best' conversion rate that one might get in Thailand, that rate has got to be better than the FYO (<deleted> You Over) rate given by American banks when one sends a SWIFT transfer

 

Not sure I understand this point from the OP.  If you SWIFT transfer USD to Thailand, then surely it is the Thai bank that performs the conversion at its own exchange rate (nothing to do with American banks at all).  That's why the Thai banks charge 0.25% fee (min. 200, max. 500) for doing the conversion of USD into THB.  If you SWIFT transfer USD to Thailand into a FCD account then there's no conversion that occurs at that time and no Thai bank fee.  If you are SWIFT transferring baht to Thailand, stop doing that.  This last transfer is the only one that American banks have anything to do with the exchange rate.  The best buying rate for Thai baht is where Thai baht is the official currency, Thailand.

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, royalmice said:

I use a service called Transferwise to transfer funds to my Thai Bank account.

It is cheaper than a swift transfer and you get much better exchange rate.  

 

You can get more info from there website : TRANSFERWISE

There have been HUNDREDS of posts re-Transferwise if you would read them.

 

It seems to work efficiently and quickly BUT the Thai banks do not ALWAYS code the transfer as FTT...Foreign.

 

I would like to think that the IO would accept that paperwork to show that $XXX left a foreign account one day and $XXX arrived in a THai account the next is OBVIOUSLY a foreign transfer. But not all IOs will see this logically.

And I would like to think that it is when conversions are done from an FCA into Baht, THAT is when the import of foreign currency occurs, not on the day on which the USD or GBP arrive in the FCA. Meaning that a single transfer of say GBP 20k can then be converted at £1666 per month = Bht 67,500 at today's rate, monthly in order to satisfy the Immigration.

But I doubt whether that will happen. TIT.

 

[PFV]

If sending from the US, opening an account with FIdelity Investments might make sense.

Fidelity SWIFT transfers from USD to USD are completely free. The receiving bank then applies their TT buying rate plus a small fee. Bangkok Bank chareges 200 baht.

The only drawbacks are that you need to phone Fidelity directly (but with a service like Skype Out, no biggie.), and you also need to have filed a form with them that requires your physical presence at one of their branches.