New Rules- Has anyone asked senior immigration officials?

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Based on what we have seen in the last few days there would be little point in asking the IO's as they will have no idea.

You would have to be brain dead not to ask. 

[icare999]

2 hours ago, Thailand said:

Goes to show they have no idea what they are doing, what a shower!

no his extension was from march 3rd after new rules came into force he applied early which is allowed but hes extended from 3rd march after march 1 

[icare999]

2 hours ago, pontious said:

The rules are relevant to ' date of application ' not extension date.

555 another forang who knows it all place ios full of forang who tihnk they are still in west and rules in west apply here im totally fed up with them but they eventually learn its Thais who make rules not them 

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, Thailand said:

Do the new rules apply only to NEW extensions of stay based on retirement or does it apply to all?

It’s all, new and renewals.

 

5 hours ago, Thailand said:

Surely TV have the contacts to get the information from the big guns, "are the new rules all encompassing or only for new applications from 1st March?"

Clearly they haven’t.

[sniggie]

6 hours ago, wgdanson said:

I asked the top man at P'lok Imm last week, and he said 'As long as 800k come into bank from abroad I am OK. Lump sum or, monthly'

I am erring on the cautious and doing 66k a month, Transferwise, FTT in my Bkk Bank.

I hope that you will be OK. However you are trusting that Transferwise won't use any of their other partner banks for any of your twelve payments. 

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, sniggie said:

I hope that you will be OK. However you are trusting that Transferwise won't use any of their other partner banks for any of your twelve payments. 

I am just hoping that the IO isn't so stupid if he sees 11 x 65k every month on say 14th of each month, and ONE on say 14th October shows CMB or other code, he will not realise that it SHOULD be FTT.

I am now using First Direct transfer, which is FREE and comes into my Bkk Bank as FTT, International.

[Danthai]

What happened to the leniency that Big Joke talked about for those applying for extension in 2019? Once I found out about the FD requirement, Bangkok Bank couldn't do fast enough. Retired military already started 1 Feb. But next renewal middle of September.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Danthai
typo

[OJAS]

5 hours ago, flexomike said:

So how do you prove the mone is still in the bank? Do you have to go back to immigration with another letter?

Not at Rayong Immigration (our office), thank goodness. See report below from an acquaintance who obtained his latest retirement extension there yesterday on the basis of 800k in the bank:-

 

"I asked about the latest Police Order, which is perfectly clear as to what is required re maintaining 800k for 5 months of the year and 400k for the other 7 months, but says nothing about the verification process. Are we going to have to start producing our bank books/ statements every 90 days? The answer - as far as Rayong Immigration is concerned - is no. As long as when you next apply (after the first application under this Order) you can produce a record of the required balances for the previous year you're in the clear. This is what I hoped they'd say, and eminently sensible."

 

[Khaeng Mak]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Good question.

 

The new rules about 800K bank account applications apply to all.

 

The new rules about required monthly import are only about income based applications for people that can't get embassy letters.

 

Combo method for people that can't get embassy letters is not mentioned at all in orders or memos, so those expecting to do that need to be warned that based on what we know now, there is an excellent chance of rejection. 

 

How people are supposed to make plans in this kind of unclear chaotic environment is beyond me. 

They only plan they want you to make is a plan of departure.

[rott]

8 hours ago, jacko45k said:

As written it applies to all except those who came in pre Oct 1998.

I was here pre Oct 1998 on tourist visas, be good if that applied to me but I do not see it.

[Khaeng Mak]

21 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Not at Rayong Immigration (our office), thank goodness. See report below from an acquaintance who obtained his latest retirement extension there yesterday on the basis of 800k in the bank:-

 

"I asked about the latest Police Order, which is perfectly clear as to what is required re maintaining 800k for 5 months of the year and 400k for the other 7 months, but says nothing about the verification process. Are we going to have to start producing our bank books/ statements every 90 days? The answer - as far as Rayong Immigration is concerned - is no. As long as when you next apply (after the first application under this Order) you can produce a record of the required balances for the previous year you're in the clear. This is what I hoped they'd say, and eminently sensible."

 

And what if you are in breach.  That is the million dollar question.  Do they just not renew your new application next year. And when can you apply? Or are you banished onto a tourist visa or whatever other solution you can scrounge up. Or do you have to deposit 800K and wait another 2 months to season it

 

Or if you failed to keep your balance over 400K all year are you declared on overstay, as would be the case if you were on a non-B extension and got fired, or a marriage extension and got divorced?

 

And if the breach (just one satang by the way would be all it that it takes), and it occurred more than 6 months prior to your date of application can you be jailed for overstay, deported and banned from Thailand for 5 years.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Khaeng Mak

[Khaeng Mak]

I spoke with the head of my immigration office today.  Her response was "what new rules"?

[seajae]

1 hour ago, sniggie said:

I hope that you will be OK. However you are trusting that Transferwise won't use any of their other partner banks for any of your twelve payments. 

all transferwise deposits into my Bangkok Bank account are listed as international payments, they have been going in for years and always as international

[pontious]

1 minute ago, seajae said:

all transferwise deposits into my Bangkok Bank account are listed as international payments, they have been going in for years and always as international

They use 3 banks in Thailand - they do not always say FTT if they do not use Bangkok Bank- SMT is used if they use the other 2 banks. Domestic transfer.

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, Khaeng Mak said:

I spoke with the head of my immigration office today.  Her response was "what new rules"?

Of course we are left in the dark about what office that might be? 

[rott]

4 hours ago, icare999 said:

no his extension was from march 3rd after new rules came into force he applied early which is allowed but hes extended from 3rd march after march 1 

But the date of issue is February. Nowt to do with the new regs.

[rott]

9 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Of course we are left in the dark about what office that might be? 

Yes strange really. He is on such close personal terms with IOs I am sure he will be the first to know.

 

I wonder if he has asked as many questions of them as he has on here. And did he come across as so offended when they could not give the answers he wanted. By rights by now he should be telling us the answers not asking questions

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, rott said:

I was here pre Oct 1998 on tourist visas, be good if that applied to me but I do not see it.

Well so was I but far from retired. Rather not say what I got up to after a stretch in Saudi!

[lamyai3]

9 hours ago, wgdanson said:

I am now using First Direct transfer, which is FREE and comes into my Bkk Bank as FTT, International.

Is this a SWIFT transfer? I have a First Direct account set up in the early days of the bank back in the mid 90s, might end up using it. My bank this end would be SCB so not worth risking Transferwise. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by lamyai3

[Patriot1066]

12 hours ago, icare999 said:

555 another forang who knows it all place ios full of forang who tihnk they are still in west and rules in west apply here im totally fed up with them but they eventually learn its Thais who make rules not them 

As they should it's their country, they should decide immigration rules not any one else.

 

Better than our own countries opening borders to everyone.

[a977]

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Good question.

 

The new rules about 800K bank account applications apply to all.

 

The new rules about required monthly import are only about income based applications for people that can't get embassy letters.

 

Combo method for people that can't get embassy letters is not mentioned at all in orders or memos, so those expecting to do that need to be warned that based on what we know now, there is an excellent chance of rejection. 

 

How people are supposed to make plans in this kind of unclear chaotic environment is beyond me. 

Please read Police Order 35/2561 section 2.22 (5)"Must have an annual earning and fund deposited with a commercial bank in Thailand totalling of no less than THB 800,000 until the filing date. The said fund must remain in the account prior to and after the permission is granted and the alien can make a withdrawal under the same condition as stated in (4) "  Please if you are going to contribute please state facts as there is enough Bull shit floating around without people adding to it.

[a977]

8 hours ago, pontious said:

They use 3 banks in Thailand - they do not always say FTT if they do not use Bangkok Bank- SMT is used if they use the other 2 banks. Domestic transfer.

Hope you got plenty of money to back up your statement because I got Bangkok Bank statement showing international transfer

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, a977 said:

Please read Police Order 35/2561 section 2.22 (5)"Must have an annual earning and fund deposited with a commercial bank in Thailand totalling of no less than THB 800,000 until the filing date. The said fund must remain in the account prior to and after the permission is granted and the alien can make a withdrawal under the same condition as stated in (4) "  Please if you are going to contribute please state facts as there is enough Bull shit floating around without people adding to it.

Can you point me to the entire order?

That does sound like it's talking about the combo method.

However, we already have reports of people being told no combo method without embassy letter.

I don't think it's ethical at this time to tell people to EXPECT such combo method applications without embassy letters to be accepted especially if they don't have a record of 12 months international transfers. The math is much more COMPLICATED with combo method applications even before with embassy letters.

 

Why?

Because the officer needs to look at EVERY transaction during the entire year and add the amount of income annualized (without 12 months back and with each transfer being different how do you annualize?!?) to the current (daily) balance in the Thai bank account (or multiple bank accounts). This was messy enough before when you had a set annualized number for income. See the problem? The problem goes away if you have a record of the FULL 12 months back. Then you can just add them up and the sum becomes your annualized number. But even with embassy letters, they are more complicated for officers to deal with and complicated isn't good. 

 

I understand there is the leniency memo but that was about 65K baht or more applications which could be projected to be annualized. Annualizing a PARTIAL RECORD combo method application is asking really an awful lot of immigration officers, and I strongly suspect there is a high chance of people getting NO with such applications if they don't yet have a full record going back 12 months.

Written rules are NOT the same thing as enforcement realities. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Jingthing

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, a977 said:

Hope you got plenty of money to back up your statement because I got Bangkok Bank statement showing international transfer

Hope you got plenty too as you may have to make a repeat transfer one month or two a year as not all Transferwise transfers come in directly to Bangkok Bank and get the FTT/ International Tag. I had one come via TMB and show up as a domestic /SMART transfer. 

[a977]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Can you point me to the entire order?

That does sound like it's talking about the combo method.

However, we already have reports of people being told no combo method without embassy letter.

I don't think it's ethical at this time to tell people to EXPECT such combo method applications without embassy letters to be accepted especially if they don't have a record of 12 months international transfers. The math is much more COMPLICATED with combo method applications even before. I understand there is the leniency memo but that was about 65K baht or more applications which could be projected to be annualizing. Annualizing a PARTIAL RECORD combo method application is asking really an awful lot of immigration officers, and I strongly suspect there is a high chance of people getting NO with such applications if they don't yet have a full record going back 12 months.

Written rules are NOT the same thing as enforcement realities. 

The actual order is in Thai if you look up immigration but the translated version was on this site a couple of days ago

[Thailand]

Plenty of posts but still no answer to the original question.

I guess nobody here has access to immigration bigwigs and I don't mean local office heads.

[cmarshall]

16 minutes ago, a977 said:

The actual order is in Thai if you look up immigration but the translated version was on this site a couple of days ago

Paragraph 2.22. section (5) describes the combination method.  This is clear because Para 2.22, section (3) states that the alien must have income of THB 65,000/month OR sections (4) ff. apply.  

[Thailand]

Majority of posts nothing to do with the question.

 

From one "connected " agent in Pattaya and posted on a well known local website:

 

"-VISA NEWS-

-NEW IMMIGRATION POLICE ORDER – February 2019-
First-Time application for a 1 year extension to a Retirement Visa will need to show 800,000 Thai Baht in a Thai Bank for first 3 months of the extension
(there may be more information to follow)"

 

Anything else anywhere to actually prove or disprove this posting?

 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Thailand said:

 Anything else anywhere to actually prove or disprove this posting?

This does from the long topic about the change to clause 2.22 of the police order.

[Thailand]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

This does from the long topic about the change to clause 2.22 of the police order.

So you are saying that this is 100% sure this applies to all and not just to new applicants, then why would a respected agency post to the contrary and have it endorsed by a well established expats club?