marriage and Retirement extension refused

[tilaceer]

6 hours ago, vinniekintana said:

The OP should have put the 400k in the bank for a good 3 months before the conversion

Rocket science?

The decision to swap from Retirement to Marriage did not provide the timeline required for the 400 baht in a Thai bank.
As I had been depositing over 70k baht per month in my Australian account per month for years, I did not perceive such a problem.

Rocket science not required.

[OmarZaid]

give it up ... if you push back it will only get worse ... leave the country and reapply as requested

[BWPattaya]

Can I just clarify!

1. Do you have 800,000฿t for a retirement extension, or 40,000฿t for a marriage extension, in a Thai bank account in your own name?

or

2. Do you have at least 65,000฿t coming into a Thai bank account, or 40,000฿t for a marriage extension, every month?

All the other stuff about Australian deposits or income is irrelevant. It is money in the Thai bank which qualifies. 

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, BWPattaya said:

Can I just clarify!

1. Do you have 800,000฿t for a retirement extension, or 40,000฿t for a marriage extension, in a Thai bank account in your own name?

or

2. Do you have at least 65,000฿t coming into a Thai bank account, or 40,000฿t for a marriage extension, every month?

All the other stuff about Australian deposits or income is irrelevant. It is money in the Thai bank which qualifies. 

He is trying to use an Embassy letter so what qualifies is income/pension.  There is no requirement for it to be in Thailand.  He seems to have savings he deposits into a home country account and used that for his Embassy letter basis but did not use the word income or pension so it is not being accepted and he currently can not meet the other methods.

[Bangkok Barry]

Go to Savannakhet and get a marriage visa. No proof of income needed. End of problem, more or less. Still need to leave the country or get an extension every 90 days.

[Danthai]

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

If you're near KK, why not a trip to Suvannakhet for a 1 year multi entry Non-o VISA, 5000bht, no financials.

Hopefully that is an option all this year for 2019. With so many advising that option, I'm surprised IO's haven't had that option stopped. But I for one appreciate that nobody has stopped it. It may be a last resort. Registering marriage after we get house in wife's name and can move in and change my address, hopefully by April, our house. Opened up direct deposit right away in early January when they came out the with new rules. Military direct deposit changed right away by 3 February, but SSA I don't expect until at least 3 March. 

 

Good luck everyone and keep posting positive news and persons experience with IO.s. The feedback gives everyone a chance to plan ahead.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Danthai
My extension done early is due middle of September.

[catman20]

18 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Hire an agent.

just do it the right way no short cuts or scams no problems.

[catman20]

convert a retirement to a marriage visa

due mainly to the poor AUD to Baht rates and new rules.

 

ok i have the same situation with sterling so i opened a sterling account and sent over the equivalent amount in sterling no problem.

 

do the same with your AUD 

[Russell17au]

There are many things that you have done wrong with this and a lot of it is your attitude. One thing is trying to tell Thai Immigration Officers in Thailand that your Commonwealth of Australia Statutory Declaration is a legal binding document. Well, that is absolute b******t because that statutory declaration is only a legal binding document in Australia, not in Thailand. From what I have read in your OP the biggest problem is you and the way you have approached this. You do not want to bring your money to Thailand but it is a requirement for both the visa extensions that both the seasoned money and the income money must go into a Thai Bank Account in your name only which you have not done and it is a requirement that using the income method it must show as income from an international country into a Thai bank account and you are fighting with the Immigration office and now you tell them that you are going to phone "Big Joke" to sort it out for you. You are on overstay because you have stated that your retirement extension has expired. Wake up to yourself sport, and get your a**e out of Thailand and go and get a new visa in accordance with the rules or you could find yourself being shipped back to Australia and receiving a ban on entry to Thailand.

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, Olmate said:

If your home bank and income is accepted this option seems quite do able, rather than home country Embassy then?

I would like to see more successful reports of this, before making that claim.  But, in theory, yes. 

[tilaceer]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

There are many things that you have done wrong with this and a lot of it is your attitude. One thing is trying to tell Thai Immigration Officers in Thailand that your Commonwealth of Australia Statutory Declaration is a legal binding document. Well, that is absolute b******t because that statutory declaration is only a legal binding document in Australia, not in Thailand. From what I have read in your OP the biggest problem is you and the way you have approached this. You do not want to bring your money to Thailand but it is a requirement for both the visa extensions that both the seasoned money and the income money must go into a Thai Bank Account in your name only which you have not done and it is a requirement that using the income method it must show as income from an international country into a Thai bank account and you are fighting with the Immigration office and now you tell them that you are going to phone "Big Joke" to sort it out for you. You are on overstay because you have stated that your retirement extension has expired. Wake up to yourself sport, and get your a**e out of Thailand and go and get a new visa in accordance with the rules or you could find yourself being shipped back to Australia and receiving a ban on entry to Thailand.

You are wrong on so many levels......sport

You do not seem to understand what the requirement was BEFORE the changes came into place

I am not on overstay, you do not seem to understand how these visa's work.

Please rant elsewhere if you have nothing worthwhile to add 

Edited February 12, 2019 by tilaceer

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, catman20 said:

just do it the right way no short cuts or scams no problems.

He tried that.  He has secondary proof of his income in addition to a still-valid embassy-letter, but they don't care if he "really has" the income or not, because that is not the point of the exercise.

[bigginhill]

How about a trip to Kk immigration with copies of the stat dec from the past years, and ask "in the interest of resolving the problem for all", you understand that they want a different stat dec wording but seeing as the wording in the past years has resulted in the extension being granted, you are will to sign that you understand the new rules for the following extensions. Also taking into account that the stat decs can no longer be produced and that there are some very recent new regulations and that there is also a letter understandably saying the immigration offices should be lenient.

I'd try talking to them, leaving in full view the article with BJ's number in view, but not threatening to use it. Subtly inferring that they were wrong to accept it in the past if they persue the arguement.

Good luck 

[luckyluke]

23 hours ago, tilaceer said:

but I cannot believe how Immigration just expected me to accept their decision and acquiesce.

There was a time (long time ago) it made me angry/revolted as well. 

 

I rather quickly learned the reality : they are the ones with the ultimate power. 

 

Sad it has to be that way if one want to stay here. 

 

There is of course an alternative, where most ( if not all) problems can "easely" be resolved, however at a cost. 

 

Also sad, but also the reality. 

[tilaceer]

3 minutes ago, bigginhill said:

How about a trip to Kk immigration with copies of the stat dec from the past years, and ask "in the interest of resolving the problem for all", you understand that they want a different stat dec wording but seeing as the wording in the past years has resulted in the extension being granted, you are will to sign that you understand the new rules for the following extensions. Also taking into account that the stat decs can no longer be produced and that there are some very recent new regulations and that there is also a letter understandably saying the immigration offices should be lenient.

I'd try talking to them, leaving in full view the article with BJ's number in view, but not threatening to use it. Subtly inferring that they were wrong to accept it in the past if they persue the arguement.

Good luck 

Thank you for your kind suggestion.

However, I expect my marriage visa to be granted tomorrow morning. It could have been done this afternoon, but they all skipped out early when we had returned with further requested documentation.

 

BJ was never used as a threat, just mentioned as an option, which they fully understood.  There has never been any animosity between us, but my wife and I have been firm with them, that the first two reasons they gave for refusal were not valid and the final one word issue did not appear reasonable, given the previous successful visa's.

 

Unlike the Australian Embassy, which has steadfastly refused to assist, TI have been extremely helpful and "flexible" in enabling me to further my attempt to obtain this visa. Unless something dire happens with the officer in KK, (who seems to be a very nice and helpful lady), it should be resolved forthwith. If not, I will go down the O visa route.

Whilst I will not go into details as to what we have arranged, if granted, there will be no financial requirement from me in terms of the money in Australia, or what I have in my Thai bank account, purely for this one off application.
After this, I will simply move 400k into my account for a few months prior from our joint account.

[newnative]

11 hours ago, tilaceer said:

I have used this exact wording for 6 years without issue.

They can see on the bank statement it is income.

As an update, I have approached the Australian Embassy and asked for a one off stat dec as this is urgent, but so far they are saying "we understand but do not issue them anymore" A stamp and a signature and all is resolved, but no.

Sounds like Australia is being even more difficult than Thailand.

[catman20]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

He tried that.  He has secondary proof of his income in addition to a still-valid embassy-letter, but they don't care if he "really has" the income or not, because that is not the point of the exercise.

well i dont have any problems. the trouble with most people they bring all the crap on them selves trying to save a few bob 

[thailand49]

13 hours ago, tilaceer said:

I have used this exact wording for 6 years without issue.

They can see on the bank statement it is income.

As an update, I have approached the Australian Embassy and asked for a one off stat dec as this is urgent, but so far they are saying "we understand but do not issue them anymore" A stamp and a signature and all is resolved, but no.

I've been saying this for a long time as UJ, stated you are fighting an uphill battle.  I stand by my remarks and others which I have written on ThaiVisa in the past and got removed.

 

When it comes to speaking and understanding English it is two different things!  Example, you would think the words " Original or Copy " dealing with Custom Immigration in Chon Buri it took two weeks to get that straighten out. They email me the instructions highlighted Copy so I sent a copy, Customs official called said why copy?

Shipping office located in Bangkok said they have an office in Chon Buri,  I drive down to the area for 30 minutes couldn't find the office so I called back to check the location?  It wasn't their office but the Thai Custom office.

 

I wrote in a report my experience January 18th, down Jomtien Pattaya regarding using income statements from outside a Thai bank basically statements and withdraws from a Thai ATM, my reported experience was removed.

 

Money has to be in a Thai bank full 800/400 and all income method.

[nahkit]

On 2/11/2019 at 10:43 PM, nahkit said:

I'm confused, you say you have over 400k sitting in Thailand but the immigration say that you don't have 400k in a Thai bank?

 

Is the money you have here in cash?

 

I'm off to do my marriage extension tomorrow, I get this horrible feeling that they are going to find something wrong. 

Well, I wasn't wrong.

 

I prepared everything the day before, filled out my TM.7 online and printed it out (which is a first for me, I usually just hand-write it). I took photocopies of everything I could think of and sorted them into two piles, with the documents in the piles being in the same order (I was told off last time for not having the papers in the same order) and feeling pleased with myself got to the immigration office around 9:15 thinking I might be out in time to get a breakfast at McDonalds.

 

The lady at the desk seemed pleasant enough, went through everything and then asked me to go and get a copy of a re-entry visa from 2017 tht I'd missed whilst my wife stayed chatting with her. Big mistake, when I got back I was told that I now needed to provide, birth certificates, thai id, house registration papers and photographs for our two adult children. Seems the wife had been giving her our life-story whilst I was at the photo-copier. The immigration officer also wouldn't accept my updated bank book and letter which had been done the day before, said they must be done the day of the application and told me I must deposit some money into the account before updating it.

 

Ok, the bank requirements were inconvenient but not a big deal but getting the paperwork for the children wasn't so easy. They are both adults, married with kids and live in different areas which meant I had to do an 180km round trip to get the information the immigration wanted. I got back to the immigration office just after 3pm and at that point I was told that if I bumped up my bank account to over 800,000 I would be given a retirement visa - strange that they could just overlook the 2 month seasoning requirement. I told them that I didn't have the extra and finally got my "under approval" stamp for the marriage extension just before 4:30pm.

 

This was my 5th extension based on marriage and we've never been asked to provide evidence of children before. There's nothing in the official list of requirements that says you need children to obtain a marriage extension so I left with the feeling that the immigration officer just enjoyed messing us about.

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, nahkit said:

I was told that if I bumped up my bank account to over 800,000 I would be given a retirement visa - strange that they could just overlook the 2 month seasoning requirement.

So all the previous effort and messing about be damned!

No other requirements to get this expedited retirement extension?

 

I had to laugh at the idea of your wife blabbing away your secrets while you were at the copy machine.... sometimes they need gagging!

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, nahkit said:

This was my 5th extension based on marriage and we've never been asked to provide evidence of children before. There's nothing in the official list of requirements that says you need children to obtain a marriage extension so I left with the feeling that the immigration officer just enjoyed messing us about.

They are trying to force you to use an agent.

It isn't messing you around, it's them trying to earn $$$$$s.

[nahkit]

4 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

So all the previous effort and messing about be damned!

No other requirements to get this expedited retirement extension?

 

I had to laugh at the idea of your wife blabbing away your secrets while you were at the copy machine.... sometimes they need gagging!

Trust me, I wasn't laughing at the time but can see the funny side now.

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

They are trying to force you to use an agent.

Well yes, or shall we say they also sometimes deal direct!

[lopburi3]

10 minutes ago, nahkit said:

I was told that if I bumped up my bank account to over 800,000 I would be given a retirement visa - strange that they could just overlook the 2 month seasoning requirement. I told them that I didn't have the extra and finally got my "under approval" stamp for the marriage extension just before 4:30pm.

 

This was my 5th extension based on marriage and we've never been asked to provide evidence of children before.

They have been provided latitude on financials due to the recent events on Embassy letters so was likely doing under that provision and then it a local immediate extension so no review of them or you.

 

'Having proof of children I believe relieves office of having to make other check that it is a real marriage (such as home visits - believe they always want proof of children if you have - was always first question asked when I used marriage here in Bangkok).

[Olmate]

5 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Well yes, or shall we say they also sometimes deal direct!

This direct deal offer is very common.I know of several in the last few weeks. Is that a good option tho?

[DJ54]

21 hours ago, Wallander4 said:

Thanks - I will use this to inform about corrupt IO at counter 7, Jomtien Immigration

Easy partner (from John Wayne or Roy Rogers western?) I’d be careful to not rock the boat unless you’re 100% it stays anonymous 

 

if not it could cause extra headaches....

[JackThompson]

49 minutes ago, Olmate said:

This direct deal offer is very common.I know of several in the last few weeks. Is that a good option tho?

You open yourself up to it being a "sting operation" that way.  What better way to "prove" they aren't corrupt, than to bust some farang offering a bribe - while keeping the huge flow of agent-money flowing in, as always.

 

37 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

22 hours ago, Wallander4 said:

Thanks - I will use this to inform about corrupt IO at counter 7, Jomtien Immigration

Easy partner (from John Wayne or Roy Rogers western?) I’d be careful to not rock the boat unless you’re 100% it stays anonymous 

 

if not it could cause extra headaches....

My first thought reading that - better use a "burner phone" or something - you'd have to act like a drug-dealer to avoid potential repercussions.  I am reminded of when the Chinese govt (under Mao) asked for "constructive criticism" - allowed this for a time, then rounded-up everyone who had offered any. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign

 

I have no idea if BJ's offer is made in good faith, but given the latest changes to the retirement-extension - which are designed only to harm honest-applicants - not to affect the ongoing mass-corruption-via-agent - combined with the new "back door" seasoning-increase on married-to-a-Thai applicants at Chang Wattana - I am increasingly inclined to doubt sincerity of effort.  If you cannot prove your case, it could twisted into a defamation-case against the whistle-blower.

Immigration needs an "anonymous tip" system of some sort, including laws shielding whistle-blowers from revenge (including defamation-cases), if they really want useful info about corruption in their ranks.  I don't see that happening any time soon.

Edited February 13, 2019 by JackThompson

[nahkit]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

So all the previous effort and messing about be damned!

No other requirements to get this expedited retirement extension?

 

I had to laugh at the idea of your wife blabbing away your secrets while you were at the copy machine.... sometimes they need gagging!

And don't remind me of the time, years ago, when my daughter was on overstay and having been stamped out and passed through immigration without anything being said, my wife turned to the immigration officer and said "so, no problem for the overstay then".

 

Doh!

[DJ54]

I asked the US Embassy concerning Income Affadavit being valid 

6 months. See below 

[rosst]

As I read this, I thank my lucky stars that I made the move to the Philippines. 

Not perfect but predictable