Buy a house when married = no control over it?

[biggles45]

Always bear in mind that no matter what structure you use to purchase a house, legal or otherwise, if your wife or her family want you out they will get you out. Threats, intimidation, violence all done with no redress from the police or courts. Seen it several times

[maprao]

Nothing here is 100% safe. We have one OP here whose wife is seeking a divorce after 30 years.

 

I built my (our) (their) house and farm for my wife and son. If everything goes "pair shaped" they have a really nice place to live. 

 

With a couple of decades to go to retirement I am reestablishing myself at home. Recent events with the biggest shake up of retirement hoops in 2/3 decades has made me realize that this is a must even though I hate the "PC Nanny state "  I come from.

[thesetat2013]

On 2/16/2019 at 5:28 PM, Peterw42 said:

Married or not doesn't make much difference as to having control over land. You cant own land. The best you can do is own less than half of a non-trading company that owns the land. There are some limited controls over ongoing access to the land and stopping the 51% Thai owner from selling/mortgaging the company or land.

Unless you want to buy a Condo, you cannot own a house, much less have 100% control over it.

Buy one and don't tell her or anyone about it

[baansgr]

On 2/16/2019 at 4:35 PM, KiChakayan said:

I am married, and I have spent about half of my saving on buildings a nice house for my family. I did so because we have two daughters, and there is no way I would leave them without a proper home if/when I departed, for whatever reason.

Now building a house for a girl friend or wife, without a solid, established relationship is just asking for trouble. Take your time, make sure it can last, and start building only after you get officially married. As far as I understand half of the house, or whatever you buy while married, will be considered as yours. Even though you can't own the land the house has been built on.

There is also the issue of where you want to built a house, most girls will try to coerce you to build nearby their parents homes, make sure that that's what you want before you give in. Again, take your time.

I hope your happiness  continues,  even though  I only wanted one third in the divorce agreement it didn't stop my ex immediately  selling it and me getting nothing...btw,  we have three kids and she didn't give two hoots about them or their future.... For the OP... Apart from a foreign  name Condo you can't control "your" property"... Leases,  usufructs,  companies is all reliant on Thais.  As stated, just rent or buy a condo. 

[baansgr]

59 minutes ago, biggles45 said:

Always bear in mind that no matter what structure you use to purchase a house, legal or otherwise, if your wife or her family want you out they will get you out. Threats, intimidation, violence all done with no redress from the police or courts. Seen it several times

This is so true... who wants to stay in a house in the boonies near the outlaws,  or even if it's not in their home village,  nothing  to stop them moving the whole tribe  in

[giddyup]

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Here an idea how much " shoe boxes" cost :

 

https://www.ddproperty.com/en/condo-for-sale/in-khong-tan-th103302/priced-under-20m-baht

 

 

Expensive shoe boxes.

[sawadee1947]

On 2/16/2019 at 9:42 PM, Delight said:

 The simple solution is to buy a house via company.

If this company is set up correctly ,then you will have 100% of the voting rights and 100% control. Even if you gave your wife say 25%  of the shares-that act of apparent generosity changes nothing.

There are 2 issues to consider

1) If you at some future date you  sell the house-will your wife vacate the property willingly.

2) In the event of a divorce you will need an audit trail of the monies used to buy the property. If you can satisfy a judge that the money was yours prior to the marriage -then you will keep that amount of money post divorce. A good lawyer is required.

  Selling your property is simple-assuming that you have a buyer.

 Most important that the proceeeds for the sale are deposited outside Thailand -unless you are happy to keep them in Thailand.

 

  Some say buying thru a  company is dangerous. You are on your own with that one.

 

 

 

The company is illegal just holding the property unless.... the company has income and paying taxes. The judges in Thailand are not as stupid. They will know why you set up the company. Your lawyer will be happy to fight for you means fill his pockets

[GreasyFingers]

The OP is in a difficult situation. After renting for 4 years I have just given my wife a house and land that came totally from my funds even though I had to lie at the Land Office that it was all her money and not mine.

I, and she, are much happier in a home that she (we) owns. Renting long term sucks if you want to do work on the property and improve it. If the OP wants to buy an existing house it will need to be improved if built to normal Thai standards.

So I am here with no protection of usefruct or superfies (sorry about the spelling as the US dictionary has not caught up with Thai terms) which could be done if I asked. But I am totally 100% trusting of my wife until something goes wrong.

To the Op, as many have said before, do not spend anything that you are not prepared to walk away from. One other point for the Op, the purchase of the property really went to her ego and she always referred to it as HER house when speaking to anyone that would listen. I keep reminding her that it is OUR house.

[luckyluke]

9 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Expensive shoe boxes.

Correct,

 

and the people living there are calling a house a shack.

 

Everything is relative.

[puipuitom]

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 10:24 AM, stapoz said:

Renting is not an option. I want have MY home.

See the many posts, not only ion Thai Visa; a foreigner can NOT own a piece of land, so you have a house on the land of somebody else… tilll he/she does not allow you to enter it.

 

You do not like it ? So, go to another country with different laws.

[oobar]

On 2/16/2019 at 4:28 PM, Peterw42 said:

Married or not doesn't make much difference as to having control over land. You cant own land. The best you can do is own less than half of a non-trading company that owns the land. There are some limited controls over ongoing access to the land and stopping the 51% Thai owner from selling/mortgaging the company or land.

Unless you want to buy a Condo, you cannot own a house, much less have 100% control over it.

This is not correct.  I have a 30/60 year lease for two rai, on which I constructed a house five years ago.  Under right of superficies, included in my land lease, I own the house free of anyone else's interference, and I can transfer (or sell) the lease and house to anyone I please.

[Inepto Cracy]

O P why would you want to buy something you did not own ?

Little head thinking, not the big one hey ?

[GreasyFingers]

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

See the many posts, not only ion Thai Visa; a foreigner can NOT own a piece of land, so you have a house on the land of somebody else… tilll he/she does not allow you to enter it.

 

You do not like it ? So, go to another country with different laws.

Many people lived in their homes on Crown leases in Australia. It all depends on the conditions of the lease.

[Dumbastheycome]

On 2/16/2019 at 4:28 PM, Vacuum said:

Then you're in the wrong country.

Not only. He says he is married. 

[thrilled]

Who do you think you are dude?Renting is not an option.Your not a thai citizen.

To the thai government you are nothing.You don't have no power.You need to roll with the punches or find another country.Simple as that.

[elliss]

4 hours ago, biggles45 said:

Always bear in mind that no matter what structure you use to purchase a house, legal or otherwise, if your wife or her family want you out they will get you out. Threats, intimidation, violence all done with no redress from the police or courts. Seen it several times

 

 Spot on matey , this  30 year lease or whatever name it is given is crap.

     Thai family , and  brother move in ,  goodbye  farlang , or die .

 

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by elliss

[Peterw42]

3 hours ago, oobar said:

This is not correct.  I have a 30/60 year lease for two rai, on which I constructed a house five years ago.  Under right of superficies, included in my land lease, I own the house free of anyone else's interference, and I can transfer (or sell) the lease and house to anyone I please.

We must have different definitions of "ownership". You rent land that someone else owns and have built a structure on land that someone else owns. See how long your lease is recognised if the land is sold to someone else or repossessed by the bank.  

[Pilotman]

On 2/17/2019 at 1:15 PM, ThomasThBKK said:

Nothing is illegal if setup correctly when it comes to holding structures, preference shares and usufruct. 

 

All that is backed by thai law and multiple decisions in the Supreme court. 

 

There are multiple things that are illegal as having a nominee structure, a company that just exists to own land... But all these things can be done correctly and every big company is either using that or a BOI. 

 

Usufructs have also been challenged in supreme court multiple times and it was ruled they are totally legitimate and can be issued for lifetime to foreigners. 

 

There's a lot of half truths and just factually wrong infornation in here. 

 

BUT none of this helps if you are married already - especially without a prenuptial agreement. 

 

All your company shares and your wifes will be owned by both of you and so is the usufruct, the usufruct could even be cancelled if you are married already. 

 

 

You are out of luck if married if you want to protect your after marriage assets from your wife imo. 

 

 

 

you are quite right. Done legally it is just that, legal.  When my wife, daughter and I set up our company for property ownership, we used an international law firm with a Bangkok office, Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer.  It wasn't cheap, but it ensured that what we were doing was within the law. We have since had the company audited by the Thai Department of Development and they have no issues with it.  Every year we submit accounts and pay tax.  If you use proxy directors, you are asking for trouble. 

[jmd8800]

3 hours ago, Inepto Cracy said:

O P why would you want to buy something you did not own ?

Little head thinking, not the big one hey ?

Men were blessed with two heads... but only enough blood to run one at a time.

[snowgard]

On 2/16/2019 at 4:43 PM, ThomasThBKK said:

That's wrong. 

 

It makes a giant difference. Every shareholding after marriage, everything you buy while Married she also owns and vice versa. 

 

That is wrong!!!

Everything what is bought during the marriage is 100% yours if you have statements that it was paid with YOUR money what you had BEFORE you married. Only belongings what is bought with money what you/she earned in the marriages time is 50/50. 

[ThomasThBKK]

48 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

you are quite right. Done legally it is just that, legal.  When my wife, daughter and I set up our company for property ownership, we used an international law firm with a Bangkok office, Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer.  It wasn't cheap, but it ensured that what we were doing was within the law. We have since had the company audited by the Thai Department of Development and they have no issues with it.  Every year we submit accounts and pay tax.  If you use proxy directors, you are asking for trouble. 

 

Yes and besides that u dont even need to use ur gf as a shareholder - use a business partner, thai-foreigner friend, account or whoever else...

Quote

Everything what is bought during the marriage is 100% yours if you have statements that it was paid with YOUR money what you had BEFORE you married. Only belongings what is bought with money what you/she earned in the marriages time is 50/50. 

 

yeah thats true, i meant stuff that u buy after u are married, that could easy be marrital property.

you would need to proof it's a personal asset, might work if it was paid with an oversees wire in your name. the main issue is that if the land department notices your wife is married they force u to sign a document that states that her money was used to purchase this - and they are not flexible on that bs document...

better to not have your wife listed anywhere in the shareholdings at all

[Pilotman]

12 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

Yes and besides that u dont even need to use ur gf as a shareholder - use a business partner, thai-foreigner friend, account or whoever else...

 

yeah thats true, i meant stuff that u buy after u are married, that could easy be marrital property.

you would need to proof it's a personal asset, might work if it was paid with an oversees wire in your name. the main issue is that if the land department notices your wife is married they force u to sign a document that states that her money was used to purchase this - and they are not flexible on that bs document...

better to not have your wife listed anywhere in the shareholdings at all

We used funds in a UK joint account held in the UK, no problem proving it's my wife's money.  For our daughter,  she was loaned the money on a no interest basis by her parents (us), to be paid back over 20 years. All legit and notarised by the FBD London office.  

[Airalee]

16 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

We used funds in a UK joint account held in the UK, no problem proving it's my wife's money.  For our daughter,  she was loaned the money on a no interest basis by her parents (us), to be paid back over 20 years. All legit and notarised by the FBD London office.  

Off topic a bit, but that’s pretty sweet that parents can make 0% interest loans to their kids in England.  In the US, there is a minimum interest rate that parents can charge (can’t remember what it is, but not exceedingly low) and then the parents have to pay income tax on the interest income from their kids.

[jackdd]

17 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Off topic a bit, but that’s pretty sweet that parents can make 0% interest loans to their kids in England.  In the US, there is a minimum interest rate that parents can charge (can’t remember what it is, but not exceedingly low) and then the parents have to pay income tax on the interest income from their kids.

If the children default the loan, is the outstanding balance then considered a loss and can be deducted from your taxable income?

[Delight]

1 hour ago, snowgard said:

Everything what is bought during the marriage is 100% yours if you have statements that it was paid with YOUR money what you had BEFORE you married. Only belongings what is bought with money what you/she earned in the marriages time is 50/50. 

 This is 100% correct

[Airalee]

3 hours ago, jackdd said:

If the children default the loan, is the outstanding balance then considered a loss and can be deducted from your taxable income?

Hmmm....never thought about that.  Interesting idea, but I’d be willing to bet that the IRS would never be so generous.  

 

Edit: just looked it up.  It appears that it is deductible if entered into properly with all the supporting documents.

 

https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/loan-bad-debt-deduction-friends-family-1282.php

Edited February 18, 2019 by Airalee
Added info

[sead]

Forget company ownership.  To much hassle and money. Have a son or daughter, then buy in their name

[srowndedbyh2o]

Get one of these “Baan Knockdown” homes.

They can build the house, then put it on your wifes land. You will own the house yourself, 100%. If things go bad between you and the wife, just pick up the house and move it somewhere else. ????

[henry15]

On 2/16/2019 at 9:42 PM, Delight said:

 The simple solution is to buy a house via company.

If this company is set up correctly ,then you will have 100% of the voting rights and 100% control. Even if you gave your wife say 25%  of the shares-that act of apparent generosity changes nothing.

There are 2 issues to consider

1) If you at some future date you  sell the house-will your wife vacate the property willingly.

2) In the event of a divorce you will need an audit trail of the monies used to buy the property. If you can satisfy a judge that the money was yours prior to the marriage -then you will keep that amount of money post divorce. A good lawyer is required.

  Selling your property is simple-assuming that you have a buyer.

 Most important that the proceeeds for the sale are deposited outside Thailand -unless you are happy to keep them in Thailand.

 

  Some say buying thru a  company is dangerous. You are on your own with that one.

 

 

 

This is an illegal construction for foreigners.

[jmd8800]

I think this is kind of telling how some expats think. There are some who would jump through hoops and pay lawyers big fees to arrange legal documents to protect an investment that in the spirit of the law is illegal.

 

On the other hand there are some expats who cry and complain about having to jump through hoops to satisfy Thai Immigration and putting 4 or 800,000THB in a Thai bank for 1/2 of the year to renew an extension of stay for one more year.

 

My first thought is.... if you are granted permission to stay on an annual basis why would you buy a house? Why buy a condo? Like stock market brochures say: Past performance is no guarantee of future performance. Just because you have been granted permission to stay for the last 10 years does not mean next year an extension will be granted.