Why, after 9 months, Retired in Thailand, I left and am back in the USA?

[jimcarr65]

Captain Jack, 

 

Very good post, I even shared it with my friend who is 73 and was considering moving there to be closer to his Thai GF. After reading what you wrote he decided against it you know why?....Because it is reality over there now. I lived there from 2014-2017 and taught English at a good school. However, I am only 52 and was not saving for retirement, living check to check, no 401K, the pollution was gagging, the hassle of Immigration and all the paperworl involved(went to Laos once with 50 sheets of paper for an extension, was missing 1 paper, back to Thailand!!!), the constant "mmmaaaaaasssaagggeee" in Pattaya got on my nevers, it was nice for the first 6 weeks but not when you live there. You did the right thing. 

 

Only question I have is if you are a Vietnam Vet what about VA benefits? 

[Morty T]

You mentioned a good pension, but it seems it's not good enough. You already knew what the requirements were before you came; so I am lost on the rest of your story, unless you were expecting to do border runs as a viable alternative.

[Rhys]

Capt. Jack,

 

Carry on.  The tour was up.  This is an insightful and challenging place to live, work, and experience at times.  It is what we make it.   Good for you to experience the Thailand that was kind you...learning to work the system is always a challenge, but actually a bit rewarding when done to your Max Benefit.

 

Actually not sure have you been out of BKK?  Did not the appeal of upcountry living appeal to you?  Did you not try to find a place that allows for a few hours drive to major province to food, entertainment, and supplies?

 

Anyway, all the best on your next AIT KADET... This we will defend.

[Inepto Cracy]

On 2/17/2019 at 5:31 AM, ThaiPauly said:

Thonglo has a police station known for it's sharp practice so no real surprise there, I used to live on 59 and have known many people who have endured suffering because of this.

 

I think you have made the correct decision, I have been here 17 years now and have seen Thailand change so much, and not at all for the better, the new immigration rules do not bother me, in fact I will benefit from them because I will switch from a retirement visa to a marriage one.

 

Health Insurance could be a big stumbling block for me, the last quote I got was about $8,000 per annum with many pre-existing conditions excluded, I am around your age. That would probably be a deal breaker for me, luckily I still have property in the UK that I could fall back on should things get that bad but for now I have invested to much to just walk away and my wife of 15 years has a son and an elderly father to worry about right now, plus I have a son and grandson who live in BKK, I don't want to leave , but we will just have to see what the future brings.

 

I have heard good things about Panama and Costa Rica especially, if I was American I would probably have gone there had my circumstances been different.

 

I wish you all the luck in the world and am sorry that Thailand has been unkind to you

Thai immigration, under the dung heap, is not wanting expats to go the marriage visa route.

Stick with the Retirement Permission to Stay and you should be good.

[rumak]

12 hours ago, villagefarang said:

Friends should definitely be taken into consideration but it is another of those very personal and varied factors.  Everyone has different needs which they need to take into consideration.  One must also remember that Thailand relationships tend to be very transient in my experience.  I learned to deal with that long ago but I have known many people who struggled with the fact people come and go.  If you are the type who had lifelong friendships from childhood and expect that same kind of friendship in Thailand, you are likely to be very disappointed.

very true.   fortunately i have one or two friends from 30 years ago.   have not made another real friend since.   sometimes i think of reaching out to someone on thaivisa and then i think....hmmm, maybe not !

just like those couples having lunch together, never looking up from their smart phone.  communication on thaivisa is kinda like that, i guess.   transient indeed

[CaptainJack]

16 hours ago, ChristianBlessing said:

Thanks CaptainJack for this well-reasoned and clear post. After 11 years working in Malaysia, with some consideration given to retiring in Thailand, my spouse and I too have decided that there are simply too many hurdles to get over. We have a nice home in Arizona where we will retire; Thailand will be a pleasant yearly getaway for us going forward, allowing us the best of two worlds.

Glad you made the correct decision for yourselves.  Best to you.

[Tony125]

11 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

I never said half of all expats would "leave their partners , families, and investments behind."  Most of those leaving of course are those you call "losers."  Not having 800,000 baht to deposit in a Thai bank, is not a sign of a loser.  The many who do have 800,000 baht to deposit in a Thai bank but will not do so are called intelligent expats.  

 

A large percentage of western expats didn't buy condos nor did they get married so moving on isn't a problem.  Some of the expats who did get married are taking their wives with them, like to the US for instance.  The bottom line is it is a high percentage leaving and more are in the process of planning to make the move.  When immigration tallies up the number of expats living in Thailand at the end of the year, we will know the actual percentage of those who left.

 

No worries though, immigration will get to you too.  It is just a matter of time. ???? 

We will wait and see but I think you're wrong and there will not be a large group of expats leaving the country. Remember only Brits, US, Aussies and Danes can no longer get the affirmation letters. All others still can and of those affected by the letters if the banks show deposits of 40,000 baht  or 65,000 baht  monthly as proof for extensions they won't have any problems either.

[CaptainJack]

15 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

CaptainJack:

 

Before you sign off, I was hoping you could answer a question I've been curious about. When you moved to Thailand did you liquidate all your personal property which you didn't ship here, or did you put stuff in storage/leave with friends, hedging against the possibility that you might move back home if things didn't work out the way you planned?

Hi Gecko123,

 

First, good question.  And, wow, first morning I've not woken up feeling like a truck ran me down from the jet lag. Whew!

 

On to your question. I did liquidate all my possessions,  including my car.  I kept my trekking and camping year, and my cold weather clothes.  My best friend stored all that for me.  He is also my legal representative.  I trust him with my life.  I'm staying with them as I sort out next steps. I have a small trailer about 4 hours away that is home for me at an RV park. It is mostly long term residents who like living just outside a small Texas country town. That is still my home, but better to hang here in Austin for the time being. 

 

I rented a car for a month. Expensive,  but, in the 9 months I was gone, not making a car payment,  car insurance and storage cost, I cleared all my debts in the USA living in Bangkok.   And that included the 200 a month I paid for one of the best travel insurance programs there is, "GeoBlue". It's too bad I cannot afford to pay the rates for expatriate medical insurance with them.  This was another factor I did not mention.  I could not go beyond a year on my travel policy if I was absolutely committed to retirement in a foreign country.   The entire fraud thing, if caught, will really ruin your day.  

 

There really were many factors involved in my decision.   I kept the original post brief, maybe too brief,  but happy to answer other questions.   

 

In that I was officially still traveling,  was all over Asia, SE Asia and Oceania,  I kept myself legal.  February 22 was my date to either comment,  or go home.  When I started the process of moving to Thailand,  for me, it was a matter of try it, see how it really is to live there, and decide if it was for me? I've been very honest.  I missed a bunch of red flags. I give myself a pass on the changes that have occurred recently.  Nobody could plan for those.

 

I'm now looking at Panama and other countries in South America.  I can buy another medical insurance travel, go check out some other places, and see what I think.

 

I will say this.  I'm pretty disenchanted with my home country.   It took a combination of events and factors for me to backtrack,  now regroup and hopefully,  a bit wider, put together a better thought out plan.  One thing that has really stuck with me is several TV members made a really good point.   Don't be on the other side of the planet, just in case you really need to get back for medical reasons.

 

I checked flights last night and I can fly, with on stop from Panama to Austin in 7 hours.  

 

There is lots to think about,  and I know someone will ask, what is my fail safe plan? It is buy a good quality, heavy duty SUV, hook up my camper trailer and travel the USA and Canada.   Finally find some spot, maybe a cabin in the mountains,  with cool and clean air, get a good dog, and finish this life out with a smile on my face.   Cheers!!!

 

[CaptainJack]

3 hours ago, jimcarr65 said:

Captain Jack, 

 

Very good post, I even shared it with my friend who is 73 and was considering moving there to be closer to his Thai GF. After reading what you wrote he decided against it you know why?....Because it is reality over there now. I lived there from 2014-2017 and taught English at a good school. However, I am only 52 and was not saving for retirement, living check to check, no 401K, the pollution was gagging, the hassle of Immigration and all the paperworl involved(went to Laos once with 50 sheets of paper for an extension, was missing 1 paper, back to Thailand!!!), the constant "mmmaaaaaasssaagggeee" in Pattaya got on my nevers, it was nice for the first 6 weeks but not when you live there. You did the right thing. 

 

Only question I have is if you are a Vietnam Vet what about VA benefits? 

Hi,

 

The VA provides zero coverage outside the USA.   Thanks for the comment. 

[CaptainJack]

2 hours ago, Morty T said:

You mentioned a good pension, but it seems it's not good enough. You already knew what the requirements were before you came; so I am lost on the rest of your story, unless you were expecting to do border runs as a viable alternative.

Hi Morty T.  There were just a lot of factors I did not understand until I got here and decided to try retirement.   I made a lot of mistakes,  I admit that.

 

I knew it was time for me to leave, and shared, in hindsight,  a poor initial post.  I've tried to answer as many detailed questions as I have been asked, hoping that they will be of some help.  

 

Sorry my initial post was not clear enough.   My bad.

 

Cheers...

[CaptainJack]

1 hour ago, Rhys said:

Capt. Jack,

 

Carry on.  The tour was up.  This is an insightful and challenging place to live, work, and experience at times.  It is what we make it.   Good for you to experience the Thailand that was kind you...learning to work the system is always a challenge, but actually a bit rewarding when done to your Max Benefit.

 

Actually not sure have you been out of BKK?  Did not the appeal of upcountry living appeal to you?  Did you not try to find a place that allows for a few hours drive to major province to food, entertainment, and supplies?

 

Anyway, all the best on your next AIT KADET... This we will defend.

Thanks!  And I love the next AIT Kadet. Lol!

[mpyre]

Most of the complaints here are related to requirements for living in a foreign country as a non-resident...how does your home country handle the same situation regarding a non-resident foreigner living there?

Exactly. 

Don't let the door hit you in the a** on the way out.

[CaptainJack]

26 minutes ago, mpyre said:

Most of the complaints here are related to requirements for living in a foreign country as a non-resident...how does your home country handle the same situation regarding a non-resident foreigner living there?

Exactly. 

Don't let the door hit you in the a** on the way out.

Oh well, before i close out my participation in this topic, I'll be happy to reply, as I sit drinking a nice class of wine, enjoying a beautiful sunset on a crisp afternoon,  and plan my next destination that may fit my needs best.  Thailand did not. Pretty simple. 

 

The door did not hit me on the a**. I was out way before it closed. I am one of the lucky ones, and in all sincerity,  I feel for all those who are trapped and waiting and hoping things don't get any worse. 

 

You are one angry guy.  Some therapy might do you some good....

[CaptainJack]

Before I say goodbye,  a thank you do all who took the time to engage in a meaningful topic.  I appreciate all the constructive comments, and I understand why some are so negative.   Living abroad is hard enough as it is.  Thailand has certainly thrown a serious curve ball to all expatriates living there.

 

With that, good luck, best wishes and happiness to you all.  

 

Sincerely, 

 

Captain Jack. 

 

PS.  I am really looking at Panama.   Wish me luck....

[marcusarelus]

6 hours ago, CaptainJack said:

Hi,

 

The VA provides zero coverage outside the USA.   Thanks for the comment. 

VA provides coverage outside of the USA if you are disabled and coverage related to that disability.  You can pay cash and VA will reimburse or some Thai hospitals will charge VA direct. See VA Foreign Medical Program for details. 

[scorecard]

20 hours ago, elgenon said:

I am interested in learning how the visa monetary requirements fill the government coffers. Please explain. Thanks.

Agree, looking forward to knowing how the visa monetary requirements fill the government coffers.

 

 

[scorecard]

10 hours ago, AlexRich said:

You are mocking people who can’t get a hold of 800,000 Baht and park it in a bank for a period of time? Losers you call them? So we can presume from your posts that you can do this easily? So those “losers” have merely saved you the bother of requesting a letter from your Embassy. My point stands ... it makes no difference to your life what other people do but you seem to get great pleasure out of seeing them leave their families. You don’t sound like a “winner” in the decent human being stakes to me.

 

 

Just one point. Most people have dream of things they can and dreams of things they can't / can never afford, very normal.

 

No doubt there are some folks who are quite interested to live in another culture on retirement, not certainly not everybody.

 

No doubt many of these folks realize retiring in another country has monetary costs which will amount to quite a sum.

 

Some also folks do their sums and know that can afford it, including all the unforeseen bumps etc., and they move.

 

And others realize that they just can't afford it and get on with life as it is and stay happy. Some folks will say I'll just have to keep dreaming about the top of the line BM, that's life!

 

Others do some sums and then realize they can't afford it but they move anyway and eventually they run into very big bumps.

 

Others do no sums, just move and quickly run into big bumps then insurmountable bumps.

 

Some folks will realize that after buying the BM the running / maintenance costs have increased so much they can't afford it any longer and they need to change the situation to what they can afford - and quite possible a painful downgrade.

 

 

 

 

[mpyre]

1 hour ago, CaptainJack said:

Oh well, before i close out my participation in this topic, I'll be happy to reply, as I sit drinking a nice class of wine, enjoying a beautiful sunset on a crisp afternoon,  and plan my next destination that may fit my needs best.  Thailand did not. Pretty simple. 

 

The door did not hit me on the a**. I was out way before it closed. I am one of the lucky ones, and in all sincerity,  I feel for all those who are trapped and waiting and hoping things don't get any worse. 

 

You are one angry guy.  Some therapy might do you some good....

What? Nothing constructive to say about legitimate observations of other countries requirements? You seem to be the one whining my friend, but I will give you a good tip...permanent residency in Mexico. Simple, fast and flexible...check it out.

[rhodie]

1 hour ago, CaptainJack said:

PS.  I am really looking at Panama.   Wish me luck....

Please come back and let us know how you get on in the US, Panama, or wherever. I suspect your eyes were the clincher, but we are all different and make our choices accordingly. Just remember eyes and flying don't go well together when you have a problem.

 

Good luck.

[granuaile]

9 hours ago, CaptainJack said:

...

There is lots to think about,  and I know someone will ask, what is my fail safe plan? It is buy a good quality, heavy duty SUV, hook up my camper trailer and travel the USA and Canada.   Finally find some spot, maybe a cabin in the mountains,  with cool and clean air, get a good dog, and finish this life out with a smile on my face.   Cheers!!!

 

A good dog is one of the most important things in life. If you have that, you don't need much else. ???? Best friend, comrade, protector, family. 

[CaptainJack]

3 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

VA provides coverage outside of the USA if you are disabled and coverage related to that disability.  You can pay cash and VA will reimburse or some Thai hospitals will charge VA direct. See VA Foreign Medical Program for details. 

Hi Marcus,

 

It took me awhile to dig this up. You are right about medical coverage related to a VA disability.   I read it inside and out, and if disabled,  it will cover medical problems resulting from the disability.   It is not, as far as i can read, available to non disabled veterans and only coveres very specific medical issues.  I've attached a link. If you see where it coveres regular veterans and normal medical services,  please let me and all the other veterans know. 

 

Thanks!

https://www.va.gov/COMMUNITYCARE/docs/pubfiles/programguides/FMP_Guide.pdf#

[CaptainJack]

4 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

VA provides coverage outside of the USA if you are disabled and coverage related to that disability.  You can pay cash and VA will reimburse or some Thai hospitals will charge VA direct. See VA Foreign Medical Program for details. 

Marcus,

 

I think i found the answer to my own question.  As i read it, it is not the same as routine VA medical care stateside.  It is limited specifically to the disability the veteran suffers from.  Here is tge link i found most useful.   Heads up.  It will p*ss everyone off when read.  Sad.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/taskandpurpose.com/disabled-veteran-overseas/amp/

[CaptainJack]

4 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

VA provides coverage outside of the USA if you are disabled and coverage related to that disability.  You can pay cash and VA will reimburse or some Thai hospitals will charge VA direct. See VA Foreign Medical Program for details. 

Marcus,

 

One more reference for everyone.  I actually found this on TV! Looks lije tge FMP is extremely limited.   Thanks again for taking the time.

 

CJ

 

[Gecko123]

23 hours ago, CaptainJack said:

Great photo. You've got some impressive forearms, buddy, I'm sure most everyone will agree.  Inspired me to do ten pushups this morning. Happy trails wherever you land.

[CMNightRider]

On 2/18/2019 at 11:58 PM, Tony125 said:

We will wait and see but I think you're wrong and there will not be a large group of expats leaving the country. Remember only Brits, US, Aussies and Danes can no longer get the affirmation letters. All others still can and of those affected by the letters if the banks show deposits of 40,000 baht  or 65,000 baht  monthly as proof for extensions they won't have any problems either.

When you tally up the Americans, Australians, and British, alone that is a lot of expats living in Thailand.  The Canadians are a bright group of people.  I find it hard to believe they won't be looking for greener pastures as well.  

 

The ring leaders introducing these new hurdles for expats living in Thailand, will go down in Thai history as the people who killed the goose that laid the golden egg.  By the end of the year, Thai's will clearly see the expat numbers dwindling, as well as their bottom line.  

[CaptainJack]

16 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Great photo. You've got some impressive forearms, buddy, I'm sure most everyone will agree.  Inspired me to do ten pushups this morning. Happy trails wherever you land.

Thanks!  That was two years ago, just half way at at an elevation of 5,000 meters on the way to the Mt. Everest Base Camp.   I was in top shap then.  Still not bad for 64 years old at the time. I'm 66 now and need to loose about 5kg.  Got to take care of the ole bod.

 

Cheers!

[CaptainJack]

Just an FYI.  I'm going to start a new topic on exit planning and survival strategies in a few days.  I'm almost over my jet lag and starting to evaluate what my own options are.  I'll post a link to that once I'm centered and grounded a bit more.  

 

I will do this because I can only barely understand the sheer terror some of you must be experiencing not knowing if, when or how hard the hammer may drop on those who are in a vulnerable position having committed to retirement in Thailand and seeing that possibility gone. 

 

We need constructive comments and support, not judgement and criticism.   These are very likely going to be very hard times for many expats in Thailand.

[Bang Bang]

35 minutes ago, CaptainJack said:

I can only barely understand the sheer terror some of you must be experiencing

Oh, come now, stop being a drama queen Cap Jack. The laws for expats haven't changed that much - the same amounts for retirement/marriage extension for years. Well, the embassies have stopped certifying what they were never verifying in the first place, which is hard to complain about.

 

And the mandatory health insurance rumors are exactly that, though I agree you need to be able to afford it as you grow older. But which country will not charge a non-citizen for care and there's plenty of fairly reasonable options here.

 

Other than that Thailand's like it's always been - I've been here 14 years now after leaving the US and loving every minute. Sure you have to work the system but beyond that it's all fun and games and heckuva a lot better than the sullen West.

 

I will venture 9 months was too short a period for you to learn the ropes. Here, check out the lovely thread below. You might even return.

 

 

 

[473geo]

6 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

When you tally up the Americans, Australians, and British, alone that is a lot of expats living in Thailand.  The Canadians are a bright group of people.  I find it hard to believe they won't be looking for greener pastures as well.  

 

The ring leaders introducing these new hurdles for expats living in Thailand, will go down in Thai history as the people who killed the goose that laid the golden egg.  By the end of the year, Thai's will clearly see the expat numbers dwindling, as well as their bottom line.  

I think a reasonable depth of research would clearly show expat contribution to the 'bottom line' is minimal, in the grand scheme of things. Tourism pays much better.

[Bang Bang]

6 minutes ago, 473geo said:

I think a reasonable depth of research would clearly show expat contribution to the 'bottom line' is minimal, in the grand scheme of things. Tourism pays much better.

Absolutely. This says the average Chinese tourist spends about $150/day here and there's 10 million of them expected this year. I would posit the average Western tourist spends even more though their numbers are less.

 

Do we expats individually or collectively even come close to that kind of contribution to the economy? Which is good and bad.

 

Bad, the authorities give a rat's ass about us. Good, they give a rat's ass about us so it's not worth their while targeting us. We're tolerated/ignored/left to our own devices. Sometimes it's good not to matter.