Why, after 9 months, Retired in Thailand, I left and am back in the USA?

[CaptainJack]

2 hours ago, Bang Bang said:

Oh, come now, stop being a drama queen Cap Jack. The laws for expats haven't changed that much - the same amounts for retirement/marriage extension for years. Well, the embassies have stopped certifying what they were never verifying in the first place, which is hard to complain about.

 

And the mandatory health insurance rumors are exactly that, though I agree you need to be able to afford it as you grow older. But which country will not charge a non-citizen for care and there's plenty of fairly reasonable options here.

 

Other than that Thailand's like it's always been - I've been here 14 years now after leaving the US and loving every minute. Sure you have to work the system but beyond that it's all fun and games and heckuva a lot better than the sullen West.

 

I will venture 9 months was too short a period for you to learn the ropes. Here, check out the lovely thread below. You might even return.

 

 

 

I don't have enough money to self insure and cannot obtain for a reasonable cost health insurance at my age.  There is no coming back for me, even if i wanted to.  Your wrong I did not give Thailand enough time.  I gave it long enough to understand I'm better off back in the USA or a country south, only 10 hours away from the USA if I need serious medical care 

 

How old were you when you retired to Thailand and what do you do for medical insurance.   I'm sure many here can benefit from you sharing knowledge.

 

PS. You have no idea what my moving to Thailand,  unprepared and unaware of the complexities involved cost me emotionally and financially.  I own my own stupidity.  I should have researched moving here in much greater detail.  

 

I fell for all the PR about retirement in Thailand,  and all the wrong Internet sites.  The bottom line friend is this, I blew it.  My expatriate friends that have lived in Thailand for years who tried their best to help me find affordable medical insurance all had to give up and admit,  it just is not available at a price i can afford. 

 

I could have made everything else work. I have enough monthly,  but another fail on my part was my savings.   It got wiped out for several reasons.   Some were my doing   others outside my control.   There are millions of baby boomers in similar circumstances.   They took it hard when the rich fat cats ripped off the American public in the mortgage security crisis.   A lot of good people lost everything.   

 

It may be of interest to you to understand one other aspect of my trying to stay in Thailand.   My Thai girlfriend and all my other Thai friends i made had a very different view of my circumstances. They all said, and I quote, "why are you so worried about yiur health? Just be happy, and accept,  everyone dies.  If you die, it's okay".

 

No, it's not okay if i give this life up because I can't afford a medical procedure that I can get back home.

 

I hope you understand where I'm coming from.  I'm not a drama queen.  This is very real for me.

Edited February 20, 2019 by CaptainJack
Better wording.

[Damrongsak]

On 2/17/2019 at 9:42 PM, VocalNeal said:

 

To retire anywhere you need friends. This is the mistake many , many retirees make. Move to a nice place but with no friends. Eventually.....

If planning retirement properly one needs to visit the chosen place on vacation for some years before retiring that way you meet people and get a fell for the place before taking the plunge.

 

Never underestimate the need for friends.

This ^.  I'm still unsure about retiring up in Loei at age 65.  Spent 3 years in Thailand, two in Loei.  Married my wife there 40 years ago.  But we have several of her siblings and their families, a number of her more distant relatives and her old grade school and high school friends.  My old landlord's daughter is still there and is relatively hi-so for that neck of the woods (the old guy was the superintendent of education for the province and vouched for us when we got married). It's fun to visit every 7-10 years and be walking down the street or through the market and someone recognizes you. It's like a welcome home.  They remember all the food and booze we fed them at our wedding, 555.

 

If I got run down by a motorcycle in town, somebody would probably identify my body within 15 minutes.  But times change and things get more hectic, more impersonal. But be kind, be gregarious, circulate around your neighborhood and become a local character.  I used to go around after dinner and chat with shopkeepers who were sitting out front.  Same few words of Thai, over and over again until my language improved.  They appreciated it back then, not sure about now.

[brokenbone]

1 hour ago, Bang Bang said:

Absolutely. This says the average Chinese tourist spends about $150/day here and there's 10 million of them expected this year. I would posit the average Western tourist spends even more though their numbers are less.

 

Do we expats individually or collectively even come close to that kind of contribution to the economy? Which is good and bad.

 

Bad, the authorities give a rat's ass about us. Good, they give a rat's ass about us so it's not worth their while targeting us. We're tolerated/ignored/left to our own devices. Sometimes it's good not to matter.

$150 a day x 10 days = $1500 for 10 days before they leave,

or 1/12 8% of what a retiree spends per year

[CaptainJack]

For reference regarding a simple "stent", which many of us end up needing.

 

Oh, I checked when i was doing my own research,  and if the insurance company learns you take medication for high cholesterol,  it is considered preexisting and you are likely denied coverage on new policies, some for 12 months,  others forever.  These were the proverbial "devil in the details".  This post is old, but the numbers I got a couple of months ago was if you want treatment at a western hospital,  a multiple stent procedure is about two million baht.  That is what was quoted me in an email enquiry. 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by CaptainJack
Additional information

[GinBoy2]

5 minutes ago, CaptainJack said:

For reference regarding a simple "stent", which many of us end up needing.

 

Oh, I checked when i was doing my own research,  and if the insurance company learns you take medication for high cholesterol,  it is considered preexisting and you are likely denied coverage on new policies, some for 12 months,  others forever.  These were the proverbial "devil in the details".  This post is old, but the numbers I got a couple of months ago was if you want treatment at a western hospital,  a multiple stent procedure is about two million baht.  That is what was quoted me in an email enquiry. 

 

 

Any medical procedure in Thailand is very similar to Dentistry in Thailand.

The labor part of it is cheap, but any materials, be it a stent or dental implant for example, is likely to cost you more. 

So it's hit and miss on the cost

[Skallywag]

2 hours ago, 473geo said:

I think a reasonable depth of research would clearly show expat contribution to the 'bottom line' is minimal, in the grand scheme of things. Tourism pays much better.

Exactly - number of expats accounts for ~ 2% of Thailands population (not counting the "migrants" from Cambodia, Laos, and Myanmar) 

[CaptainJack]

As promised:

 

 

[WyrldTraveler]

On 2/17/2019 at 4:45 PM, Sheryl said:

US Medicare does not give a discount on oversea care.

It contributes nothing at all to care received outside the US. You're on your own for that.

Can only be used in the US.

And there are not insignificant copays and deductibles, especially if hospitalization is prolonged.

You have to pay a monthly premium for outpatient cover and medication cover, about USD 170/month for the two. This is aside from the copays and deductible.

So far from free care.

The only respect in which it is advantageous compared to Oz or UK is that the cover is not compromised if you live overseas. Dosn't matter if you live abroad nor for how long, as long as you can manage to travel back to the US for care, you are covered.



Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The only coverage from Medicare is the additional, private supplemental policies such as "Medicare Advantage".  Basic Medicare is not free and there are copays.

[HLover]

Poor planning usually results in failure.

[CaptainJack]

8 minutes ago, HLover said:

Poor planning usually results in failure.

Or worse. I own i missed way to much in my plans.   Yes, this was a failure.  I am dealing with it.

[ftpjtm]

Thanks for the post. 

 

At one point I figured I'd retire in Thailand. But now, mainly for the reasons you mentioned, I very much doubt that I will. It will rather just be a place that the Thai wife of 20+ years and I spend a few months out of the year.

 

We live in an expat community and I am amazed at the lack of concern over health insurance my retired neighbors have. Most seem to think that they'll just pay  for medical treatment out of pocket "because it's cheap". Sure, a visit to a clinic to get a sore throat diagnosis is cheap, but there seems to be next to zero planning for competent treatment of major illnesses. I had 1 neighbor sell everything at fire sale prices to return to the UK when he needed major surgery, and another die in an international hospital waiting room when his wife was trying to convince admissions that he could pay for treatment. I've also seen the conditions in the non-international hospitals and wouldn't want to spend my final days there. I'm keeping my US residency and Medicaid intact for access to US medical care.

 

And I've seen neighbors who's fixed income, in a foreign currency, became nearly 50% less in TB value than the year before due to circumstances entirely out of their control. If you are living close to the income threshold, you are in dire danger of falling below it due to currency fluctuation.

 

And the air quality is just abysmally bad. My mildly asthmatic wife comes here and stops non stop starting 6 hours after we land, and ending 3 weeks after returning to the US. I've learned that I'm more likely to have an upset stomach from bad air than bad food. We live in a somewhat remote area, but it's getting more built up by the day and I'm thinking that in a few more years we're going to need to move to avoid Bangkok like pollution. 

 

And the bureaucracy is just infantile and infuriating. 

 

It's a nice place to visit, and my wife may chose to live here full time once I'm gone (but hopefully our US resident kids will convince her that even for her the health insurance issue makes it a bad idea), but I would never chose to live here full time in retirement.  

[SpokaneAl]

Thanks for the post.   

At one point I figured I'd retire in Thailand. But now, mainly for the reasons you mentioned, I very much doubt that I will. It will rather just be a place that the Thai wife of 20+ years and I spend a few months out of the year.

 

We live in an expat community and I am amazed at the lack of concern over health insurance my retired neighbors have. Most seem to think that they'll just pay  for medical treatment out of pocket "because it's cheap". Sure, a visit to a clinic to get a sore throat diagnosis is cheap, but there seems to be next to zero planning for competent treatment of major illnesses. I had 1 neighbor sell everything at fire sale prices to return to the UK when he needed major surgery, and another die in an international hospital waiting room when his wife was trying to convince admissions that he could pay for treatment. I've also seen the conditions in the non-international hospitals and wouldn't want to spend my final days there. I'm keeping my US residency and Medicaid intact for access to US medical care.

 

And I've seen neighbors who's fixed income, in a foreign currency, became nearly 50% less in TB value than the year before due to circumstances entirely out of their control. If you are living close to the income threshold, you are in dire danger of falling below it due to currency fluctuation.

 

And the air quality is just abysmally bad. My mildly asthmatic wife comes here and stops non stop starting 6 hours after we land, and ending 3 weeks after returning to the US. I've learned that I'm more likely to have an upset stomach from bad air than bad food. We live in a somewhat remote area, but it's getting more built up by the day and I'm thinking that in a few more years we're going to need to move to avoid Bangkok like pollution. 

 

And the bureaucracy is just infantile and infuriating. 

 

It's a nice place to visit, and my wife may chose to live here full time once I'm gone (but hopefully our US resident kids will convince her that even for her the health insurance issue makes it a bad idea), but I would never chose to live here full time in retirement.  

 

 

My Thai wife - of 43 years - and I built a house in Issan and have been splitting our time between Thailand and the US during its cold months. We are now on year number seven and hope to make it ten years before we call it quits. When we do the house and car and stuff goes to her family to do with as they like as a part of our estate plan. I have set up things so if I pass first - a likely scenario - she could move to Thailand permanently. After coming here each year over these past seven years she has decided that she would prefer to live in the US and probably just sell our home there, move into a retirement home, and live out her remaining years. Thailand is just not appealing as a place to spend our remaining “golden” years for either of us.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[GinBoy2]

12 hours ago, SpokaneAl said:

 

My Thai wife - of 43 years - and I built a house in Issan and have been splitting our time between Thailand and the US during its cold months. We are now on year number seven and hope to make it ten years before we call it quits. When we do the house and car and stuff goes to her family to do with as they like as a part of our estate plan. I have set up things so if I pass first - a likely scenario - she could move to Thailand permanently. After coming here each year over these past seven years she has decided that she would prefer to live in the US and probably just sell our home there, move into a retirement home, and live out her remaining years. Thailand is just not appealing as a place to spend our remaining “golden” years for either of us.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

We have been doing the same snowbird thing.

But like your wife, mine really has no interest in moving back to Thailand, especially since our son now lives in the US

We've toyed with the idea of selling our house in Khon Kaen, but as you are well aware. maybe with the exception on BKK the second hand real estate market is almost non existent.

So we'll probably just keep it, using it as a vacation snowbird home.

Of course this year has been shitty. She couldn't get away since she works for DoD and her current project is pretty intense....and of course this year has been record breaking cold 

[wreckingcountry]

We have been doing the same snowbird thing.
But like your wife, mine really has no interest in moving back to Thailand, especially since our son now lives in the US
We've toyed with the idea of selling our house in Khon Kaen, but as you are well aware. maybe with the exception on BKK the second hand real estate market is almost non existent.
So we'll probably just keep it, using it as a vacation snowbird home.
Of course this year has been shitty. She couldn't get away since she works for DoD and her current project is pretty intense....and of course this year has been record breaking cold 

Your Thai wife works for Dept of Defense in the USA?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[GinBoy2]

2 minutes ago, wreckingcountry said:

Your Thai wife works for Dept of Defense in the USA?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Yes she does. Ellsworth AFB

[bkk6060]

Sure all sounds familiar money complaints, no insurance and complain about the cops.

Sounds like you made the right decision going back home....

[thaibeachlovers]

Not going to read all 6 pages, but my sixpence worth.

 

I too love Thailand and dreamed of retiring there. I made the mistake of getting married and now I can't afford to live there, so I had to leave after my divorce ( I did have one year on my own though )

 

If immigration is too stressful, use an agent, as I did- magic.

 

If too smoggy, move elsewhere- to a beach perhaps.

 

If one can't leave 800,000 in a bank account in LOS, one has to jump through hoops, get a different visa or leave.

 

Re medical insurance, either one can afford to pay large, or one must accept one is worm food if anything goes wrong.

 

In all my many years in LOS, I was never stopped by police/ immigration police/ whatever. Either you were living in the wrong place, or there is something you are not telling us.

[JTXR]

Thanks for the post, CaptainJack.  You seem to know yourself well and, more importantly, you are able to act quickly when you see a change is needed.

 

The advice to have an exit plan is great advice.  In fact, I have several... "What if I need to leave next year?"... "What if I find out I need to leave in a month?".... "What if I need to leave tomorrow?"  Have a plan for each and get mentally prepared for the eventuality.   (And in the last case, have a go bag ready.)

Thanks for your service back in the day, and best of luck in Austin (my sister lives there and I like it a lot) and wherever you end up settling.  Take care.

[oceanbreeze851]

Thank you, Captain Jack. I enjoyed your story. I am just the opposite of you. I live on the outskirt of Austin. I am 66 y/o and ready to retire. I have started to collect my social security checks and I am paying off all my debts before selling my house and moving to Thailand. My wife is Thai and now is a US citizen. We plan on moving to the Sattahip area. I will be on a marriage visa and I will deposit 400,000 baht in the bank. I am retired military so I have Tricare for life which will pay 80/20 of my medical cost. If you can pm me, I have many questions about your life in Thailand.

[FruitPudding]

I didn't realize the retirement visa had become so difficult, what has changed?

 

Anyway. To the OP, you probably dodged a bullet anyway. I say that out of compassion and as someone who has been here 10 years seen a lot and experienced a lot

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, FruitPudding said:

I didn't realize the retirement visa had become so difficult, what has changed?

 

Anyway. To the OP, you probably dodged a bullet anyway. I say that out of compassion and as someone who has been here 10 years seen a lot and experienced a lot

Nothing has changed.  Go home and get your O-A and then come back for two years.  Repeat as necessary. 

[CaptainJack]

Hi,

 

Just dropped in to say thanks for the positive feedback.  I leave for a three month exploration Monday for Mexico, then, Costa Rica,  Colombia and Panama.  

 

I'll check in occasionally to see how things are going with the visa stuff for everyone.   I hope it works out for everyone that found themselves in a pinch.  I did stumble across one important point made by several expats and tourists on others sites as I have investigated Latin American.   That was how important it is not to get a black deportation stamp in your passport.   I read several stories where individuals were not allowed into other countries because they had a Thai deportation stamp.  

 

The other thing I discovered was, apparently,  as of 2016 and new immigration laws passed then, Thailand has been a really difficult country as regarding getting deported.  

 

Some of you here probably know the 2016 laws that are referred to?

 

Well, I'm rested, packed and plane tickets purchased for this next journey.   

 

Good luck everyone....

 

CJ

[Essex Reject]

You did it the wrong way around, you should have come here when young then return to civilisation when older..as I'll be doing.

 

And I'd hate to see what you call 'not short'

[watcharacters]

13 minutes ago, Essex Reject said:

You did it the wrong way around, you should have come here when young then return to civilisation when older..as I'll be doing.

 

And I'd hate to see what you call 'not short'

 

I'd guess most often those who are "young" don't have the funds to  travel to a foreign country and enjoy not working.      Being born into wealth might be helpful, however.

[Essex Reject]

3 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

I'd guess most often those who are "young" don't have the funds to  travel to a foreign country and enjoy not working.      Being born into wealth might be helpful, however.

Who said anything about not working?

[Bangkokazy]

That is the option for you CaptainJack

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAj7O3LCDbkIR54hAn6Zz7A/videos

[KhunFred]

Sad to say, you are right on the money with this post. The insane premiums demanded for health insurance do not begin to compute when you consider the cost of treatment compared with the USA. Thai Immigration has seemingly lost all direction when making rules for retirees. The only possible explanation is xenophobia. The Thai fear of being consumed by "outsiders" is reflected in practically every rule they lay down. They actually think they are going to be the exception to the rule, when every other country with isolationist policies has fallen into economic depression. There is no understanding of simple economics here and no tolerance for anything that is not 100 percent Thai. Job ONE for any new elected government should be a universal healthcare system that non-citizens can buy into for a reasonable price. I can't see it happening because Thai people don't see it as important.

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Thai Immigration has seemingly lost all direction when making rules for retirees. The only possible explanation is xenophobia.

The only change is 3 months longer seasoning and 6 months seasoning of half the initial requirement. 

 

Don't you think you are over reacting a bit?

 

4 lazy embassies made some changes but that is hardly the fault of Thai Immigration now is it?  50 "not lazy" embassies made no changes and are not bothered by Thai Immigration now are they? 

[bobthomas]

On 2/17/2019 at 10:11 AM, madmen said:

oh please were you expecting a cuddle? Your a drama queen  

 

 

"5. I do not like being stopped by immigration police outside my apartment and demanding my passport and documents and fearing arrest and possible deportation. "

 

nonsense!!!

 

You dont like smog and cant afford medical insurance ? did you not even spend 5 minutes on due diligence ??

 

Many of us face challenges that we overcame to remain here , your choice was to do a runner because you did no research BEFORE you made a major life change

Stay where you are now , its the best for you

This kind of preachy, Holier than thou attitude is expressly what the OP (very clearly) stated he wished to avoid, desiring rather, constructive solutions, observations, sympathy, empathy.  Sure, many people have overcome challenges to live in the LOS, but how many of them are merely desperate to maintain their Bohemian lifestyle at all costs including their own safety, happiness and well-being. You sound a little bit jaded yourself there.

 

Kind regards,

Uncle Bob

[totally thaied up]

The OP sounds like a smart person. He analyzed a choice after making a mistake and corrected it.

 

Good on him. Takes balls to do that.

 

I am in the process of taking my wife home to Australia for 10-12 weeks to see how we go. I myself want to analyze how my wife handles the West (her English is excellent and her possibilities of getting good work are high).

 

Much like the OP, I wonder what is going to happen to the fact of Health Insurance after I get in my 60's. I would like now to look at a plan B, even if I do not have to use it at this current time. My wife's Visa is good for a year with the fact I can apply for PR while she is onshore if we decided to stay longer. 

 

I am 50 this year and have a choice now where I could stay in Thailand using cheaper health insurance premiums until I was 60 and then return home to Australia with my wife that would have PR and thus, having protection in my old age with Australia's health care system.

 

My wife mainly wants to stay in Thailand until her elderly parents die. I think after this, she would most likely fit in well with our Australian lifestyle but until we try, I do not know. I would still be able to return to Thailand say for three months every year using Travel Insurance.

 

I do love Thailand but the question I ask myself almost daily is if I am sick here, am I going to be worrying all the time that my insurance will pay out? Is that a happy way to live? I do not know yet but it has me thinking.

 

I hope the OP finds happy travels. This has been a great thread.