My Experience Extending my Retirement "Visa" last Friday.

[Pib]

13 minutes ago, Longcut said:

I have no problem receiving my mail. I keep updated online. 

I'm sure you do get your mail...getting updates online/via email....but we are not talking getting your mail from SSA via online.  We are talking address reporting.   See below SSA Publication talking SS payments when living outside the US, updating your address, etc. with a partial quote from it. with partial quote

 

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10137.pdf

Edited February 25, 2019 by Pib

[sfokevin]

21 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The letter can be obtained from your local branch same day.

Immigration are well aware it takes a few days to get statements from the head offices confirming overseas payments.

They can verify your balance with your bank on the date you apply if suspicious.

So I guess the strategy would be a week before your extension go to the bank and request the 12 month statement and then in a week when you pick up the statement ask for the balance letter (making sure that you make no deposits or withdrawal during the week so the statement & balance letter show same amount) and go to immigration that day with those two documents as proof?

[connda]

20 hours ago, steve73 said:

She again commented that this combo method would require close monitoring throughout the year by each applicant to ensure the totals and durations were clearly being observed or the next extension would be denied

2020 is going to be an interesting year for many retirees.  It will be sad story time on Thai Visa's "visa, residency, and work permit" forum probably starting the first week of March 2020

 

Ironically, the Machiavellian 'new rules' put in place to stop unqualified retirees from gaming the system by using an agent will in turn stimulate the growth of a cottage industry of agents working with corrupt IOs to supply extensions to retirees who used to qualify financially in the past but due to an emergency or unexpected draw-down of funds or issues with international money transfers or simply due to bureaucratic bumbling, these retirees will be forced into the waiting arms of agents who will get their extension processed for a price - or - these retirees will be denied an extension, and if lucky, will have the necessary time to liquidate all their assets in Thailand and leave the country.  So sad, too bad if they are unmarried yet supporting Thai families. So sad, too bad if they have condos, homes, vehicles, and other assets that they used their retirement funds to purchase and that now will need to be disposed of at fire sale prices as the immigration police unceremoniously show them the door.  But we will no doubt hear those stories starting March 2020 of next year. 

20 hours ago, steve73 said:

and again reiterated that the 800k left untouched in a fixed deposit account was Immigration's preferred method.

...as well as the preferred method of the Thai banking industry and their lobbyists.

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

So I guess the strategy would be a week before your extension go to the bank and request the 12 month statement and then in a week when you pick up the statement ask for the balance letter (making sure that you make no deposits or withdrawal during the week so the statement & balance letter show same amount) and go to immigration that day with those two documents as proof?

Depends how you keep your funds.

I have a separate fixed term account as proof of funds for Immigration purposes.

The passbook shows the date and term of my deposit.

I simply update the passbook, no transactions, and balance still as the deposit date.

No statements required.

Very easy for the IO to see how long the funds have been in the account.

 

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

So I guess the strategy would be a week before your extension go to the bank and request the 12 month statement and then in a week when you pick up the statement ask for the balance letter (making sure that you make no deposits or withdrawal during the week so the statement & balance letter show same amount) and go to immigration that day with those two documents as proof?

I think there is some confusion between bank letters and statements being done between the money in the bank option and proving income by transfers to your bank account.

For the money in the bank option they want the letter and a bank book update or statement done on or close to the date you apply for the extension since you are need to prove the money has been in the bank for 2 or 3 months.

For the income option you are only proving transfers over the past year or as many months as you can  show this year. They will not care when the statement or bank letter was done since you are not proving the money has been in bank for a certain amount of time. The balance in the account on the date you apply will certainly not be important.

[sfokevin]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

They will not care when the statement or bank letter was done since you are not proving the money has been in bank for a certain amount of time.

Let’s hope that’s the case... Luckily I have a over a year to my next extension to watch how this rolls out... ????

[Longcut]

41 minutes ago, Pib said:

I'm sure you do get your mail...getting updates online/via email....but we are not talking getting your mail from SSA via online.  We are talking address reporting.   See below SSA Publication talking SS payments when living outside the US, updating your address, etc. with a partial quote from it. with partial quote

 

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10137.pdf

1

I still maintain an address in the U.S... So totally legal. I don't receive any payments outside of the U.S. and I don't receive SSI.

[jesimps]

13 hours ago, OJAS said:

Many thanks for your comprehensive report, Steve. I suspect that they weren't too fussed about the overseas provenance of your recent TransferWise payment because you were using the 800k bank balance method. However I got the distinct impression from your subsequent comment that they would, indeed, probably insist on 65k+ monthly transfers being specifically coded FTT or similar.

 

I plan to apply for my next retirement extension at Maptaput in mid-July based on the 65k+ monthly transfer method and specifically: (1) a 6-month bank statement I obtained a month ago including the 65K+ FTT's which I had, purely fortuitously, credited in August, September, October, November, December and January, (2) the standard bank letter as per the 800k method which I plan to obtain the final working day before my trip to Immigration, along with (3) a subsequent 6-month bank statement including the 65k+ FTT's credited in February, March, April, May, June and July. The problem with a 12-month bank statement listing only the FTT's, as I understand it, is that this can take 2-3 weeks to obtain, whereas a 6-month statement can be produced while you wait (based on my experience a month ago).

 

To guarantee the required FTT classification I have reverted to using the Bangkok Bank London branch method (which, unlike its New York counterpart, does not appear to be going away any time soon) for processing my monthly transfers, given that it appears to be in the lap of the gods as to which bank TransferWise use at the Thai end in a particular instance (they have previously routed a couple of my transfers through TMB and Kasikorn, which have ended up coded SMT in my passbook).

Same with me using TransferWise. Oct and Nov went to Bangkok Bank, then bang! December's went to TMB. This means that I'll be kicked back at immigration for not having 12 months proof of international transfers under the present rules. Luckily I'm in a position to transfer the 400,000 in time for the seasoning of my marriage extension. 

[jesimps]

It's up to the individual of course, but in my opinion it'd be really helpful if when you post on the subject of visas, you let us know which office you use. 

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think there is some confusion between bank letters and statements being done between the money in the bank option and proving income by transfers to your bank account.

For the money in the bank option they want the letter and a bank book update or statement done on or close to the date you apply for the extension since you are need to prove the money has been in the bank for 2 or 3 months.

For the income option you are only proving transfers over the past year or as many months as you can  show this year. They will not care when the statement or bank letter was done since you are not proving the money has been in bank for a certain amount of time. The balance in the account on the date you apply will certainly not be important.

The problem Joe is that many expats aren't doing themselves any favours by using the funds method but only having a Savings account with regular transactions. Unless they update their passbook regularly, which is a pain in the proverbial, then they'll need statements.

Personally I'd advise opening a fixed term account, separately from a Savings account, to avoid overdrawing and dipping under the financial requirement.

You could do a 6 month fixed term for the 800K, then transfer 400k to your Savings account for expenditures, then another 6 month term for the 400K, before topping up to 800K in another 6 month term.

[Mac98]

Keep the equivalent of 65,000b in your home bank. When you see one of those "no deposit" months coming use those funds to cover yourself, then you can leave the funds from the double deposit month to refill your home account.

[Sheryl]

Ditto. I have Thai address and it's the 3rd of each month.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Sheryl]

Agree and this is what I am doing.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[jesimps]

1 hour ago, dick turpin said:

Did my retirement extension at Korat on Friday and for the first time in nine years got pulled up because my bank letter was dated the previous day. Very friendly about it and said "next time" has to be same day.

 

Struck me though, that with the new regs, they must realise that I am not going to mess up my next extension by letting the account drop below 800K for the next three months.

 

Heck of a logistical exercise for people who have a long treck to the bank, which might not open until 11am. Then may have to pick up Mrs from work and maybe even witnesses. Then drive to immigration. Lucky if you get there before closing time. As if anyone would risk going below the limit the day they extend their visa.

[Tanoshi]

38 minutes ago, Mac98 said:

Keep the equivalent of 65,000b in your home bank. When you see one of those "no deposit" months coming use those funds to cover yourself, then you can leave the funds from the double deposit month to refill your home account.

That would be the logical and sensible approach, however some expats live month to month on their incomes, they don't have an extra 65K sitting in their home banks.

[OJAS]

48 minutes ago, jesimps said:

Same with me using TransferWise. Oct and Nov went to Bangkok Bank, then bang! December's went to TMB. This means that I'll be kicked back at immigration for not having 12 months proof of international transfers under the present rules. Luckily I'm in a position to transfer the 400,000 in time for the seasoning of my marriage extension. 

I think that you should be OK given that you will be relying on the 400k seasoning method for your marriage extension. As I understand things, the "international transfer" requirement will only come into play if you are proving finances on the basis of minimum monthly transfers of 40k (in your case).

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I think there is some confusion between bank letters and statements being done between the money in the bank option and proving income by transfers to your bank account.

For the money in the bank option they want the letter and a bank book update or statement done on or close to the date you apply for the extension since you are need to prove the money has been in the bank for 2 or 3 months.

For the income option you are only proving transfers over the past year or as many months as you can  show this year. They will not care when the statement or bank letter was done since you are not proving the money has been in bank for a certain amount of time. The balance in the account on the date you apply will certainly not be important.

So how does immigration know if you have always had 400k in your account and 800k for 3 months after your extension if they get no statement and your bank book is not updated every month?  And is this OP about Rayong immigration?  I realized you asked everyone posting to identify which office they were talking about but could not find it in this thread. 

[jesimps]

1 hour ago, connda said:

2020 is going to be an interesting year for many retirees.  It will be sad story time on Thai Visa's "visa, residency, and work permit" forum probably starting the first week of March 2020

 

Ironically, the Machiavellian 'new rules' put in place to stop unqualified retirees from gaming the system by using an agent will in turn stimulate the growth of a cottage industry of agents working with corrupt IOs to supply extensions to retirees who used to qualify financially in the past but due to an emergency or unexpected draw-down of funds or issues with international money transfers or simply due to bureaucratic bumbling, these retirees will be forced into the waiting arms of agents who will get their extension processed for a price - or - these retirees will be denied an extension, and if lucky, will have the necessary time to liquidate all their assets in Thailand and leave the country.  So sad, too bad if they are unmarried yet supporting Thai families. So sad, too bad if they have condos, homes, vehicles, and other assets that they used their retirement funds to purchase and that now will need to be disposed of at fire sale prices as the immigration police unceremoniously show them the door.  But we will no doubt hear those stories starting March 2020 of next year. 

...as well as the preferred method of the Thai banking industry and their lobbyists.

So in BJ's eyes, job done!

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

So how does immigration know if you have always had 400k in your account and 800k for 3 months after your extension if they get no statement and your bank book is not updated every month? 

You provide the evidence from the previous 12 months to obtain your next extension.

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, graemeaylward said:

That is outrageous!

Indeed. Even having to wait a week for a 12-month statement could well result in significant inroads being made into the maximum 30-day advance period allowed by most immigration offices for the submission of extension of stay applications (particularly if it clashes with Thai holidays as will be the case when I next apply to extend my permission to stay in July). That is why I personally am planning to follow in the footsteps of the OP of this thread (which was timely as far as I am concerned since it prompted me to rush out and obtain my initial 6-month statement!):-

 

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by OJAS

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

So how does immigration know if you have always had 400k in your account and 800k for 3 months after your extension if they get no statement and your bank book is not updated every month?

Not the same case I was referring to.

In that case if they want to see proof of that you would need a one year bank statement or you would need to keep your bank book updated on a regular basis.

[jesimps]

4 minutes ago, OJAS said:

I think that you should be OK given that you will be relying on the 400k seasoning method for your marriage extension. As I understand things, the "international transfer" requirement will only come into play if you are proving finances on the basis of minimum monthly transfers of 40k (in your case).

Yes I was just trying to emphasise that even if you use TW and have a Bangkok Bank account, you still have to be carefull that your transfer didn't come via TMB or Kbank.

[Peter702]

Which office did you go to?  That way we know there rules.  Thanks

[Just Weird]

22 hours ago, steve73 said:

On Friday I did my annual retirement extension, using 3 months of savings over 800k. This was my 9th extension all on the same basis and at the same office.

You seem to be ignoring the posters who have asked you which Immigration Office you got that information from...any reason?

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

The problem Joe is that many expats aren't doing themselves any favours by using the funds method but only having a Savings account with regular transactions. Unless they update their passbook regularly, which is a pain in the proverbial, then they'll need statements.

I think you missed my point.

There has been both money in the bank option and the income option proven by monthly transfers discussed in this topic.

I was writing about both options.

 

[OJAS]

19 minutes ago, Peter702 said:

Which office did you go to?  That way we know there rules.  Thanks

 

17 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

You seem to be ignoring the posters who have asked you which Immigration Office you got that information from...any reason?

 

You pair have clearly missed the references in this thread to the Rayong Immigration Office based at Maptaput!

[skatewash]

8 minutes ago, OJAS said:

I believe that, by using our Sherlock Holmes powers of deduction, we should easily be able to work out from various other postings on this particular thread that he is, in fact, referring to the Rayong Immigration Office based at Maptaput.

Or the OP could have just mentioned that, maybe even in the headline, and allowed us to husband our Sherlock Holmes powers of deduction to figure out more important things like why the dog didn't bark in the night. ????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

22 hours ago, steve73 said:

On Friday I did my annual retirement extension, using 3 months of savings over 800k. This was my 9th extension all on the same basis and at the same office.

 

Indeed OP, you wrote a very clear and detailed report of your Immigration visit....

 

But given the variations in advice and interpretation from one office to another, it becomes pretty important to know WHICH Immigration office was giving out the advice you recounted....

 

 

[Captain 776]

Does the au S Consulate still provide income letters.

[skatewash]

1 minute ago, Captain 776 said:

Does the au S Consulate still provide income letters.

That depends on the meaning of au S.

 

The Austrian Embassy does, the Australian does not.