Expelled no questions asked at Don Muang

[Just Weird]

31 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The IO's seem extremely overzealous in this case. I can't see what the Op did wrong, he had a Visa a return flight and cash... He's met all the requirements. 

He didn't!  He had been living here on the basis of being a tourist when he was not a tourist, that does not meet the requirements.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Just Weird

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

He didn't!  He had been living here on the basis of being a tourist when he was not a tourist, that does not meet the requirements.

Agreed, tourist VISA but not a tourist, doesn't matter how much money you carry, you need to have the right VISA. That's no excuse for writing 'insufficient funds' on his passport though, they should have written 'wrong VISA'.

Edited March 8, 2019 by BritManToo

[jspill]

14 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

He didn't!  He had been living here on the basis of being a tourist when he was not a tourist, that does not meet the requirements.

Less than 6 months stay in the last year makes him a tourist, OP said he's been here since Oct. He's not classed as a tax resident and there've been many IOs saying as long as you stick to <180 days per year on tourist visas, that's acceptable.

 

Richard is correct they were being very overzealous in this case. Some people just get unlucky and run into certain staff on a power trip.

 

There were also many reports of the IOs saying ok we'll allow entry this time but get married to your Thai GF, to rectify the situation. Often they phoned the Thai GF too. That didn't happen in this case, no questions or discussion at all. 

 

I'd wager if he used a land border or flew in to Suvarnbhumi he wouldn't have any issues, he just got unlucky with Don Muang on this particular staff shift. I have a way worse visa history than him, 10 years of exempts, TRs, ed visas, etc.

Edited March 8, 2019 by jspill

[yuiop]

33 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

The rules state that you may only stay on a tourist visa for 90 days in any 6 month period.

 

 

Not true

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Agreed, tourist VISA but not a tourist, doesn't matter how much money you carry, you need to have the right VISA. That's no excuse for writing 'insufficient funds' on his passport though, they should have written 'wrong VISA'.

What other Visa options are available to the Op? All I can think of is the Thai Elite visa. 

 

If you are under 30 yrs old and don't want to marry a Thai, but you want to be in Thailand for extended periods of time your Visa options are extremely limited. 

 

In my Early 30's the Thai Elite Option opened up for me, otherwise I'd have found staying here difficult.  I'm a consultant and my work is sometimes rotational, but sometimes sporadic and at times I've found myself in Thailand for 9months (the Elite Visa works for this), but, if I didn't have the Elite Visa what option is there?  I don't think there is one, back to back Tourist Visa's are clearly frowned upon, yet the only status I could get in Thailand is 'Tourist' - I would have had to return home to the UK. 

 

Thus: IF the Op was over 50 yrs old, he'd have no issues and could get a Retirement Visa (based on 800,000 baht seasoned in a Thai account). But, as he is under 50 yrs old he finds himself without simple Visa options and at the Whim of inconsistent immigration officers. 

 

It just seems Odd that he's not wanted here until he's 50 yrs old.

 

The only recommendation I have for the Op is to Get a Pre-Nup and Marry his GF (if she agrees) for the simplicity of a Visa, thus circumnavigating the uncertainty. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Formaleins]

Are you of African heritage?

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

If you are under 30 yrs old and don't want to marry a Thai, but you want to be in Thailand for extended periods of time your Visa options are extremely limited. 

 

Waiver on entry ........ 30 days + 30 extension 2x a year, you ain't welcome longer.

Under 50, work, marry, or breed, or pay for an Elite if you ain't a tourist.

 

I came here on a one year non-o when I was 52, 120 pounds ' to look around Thailand'.

That option is no longer available.

Now I come here for 90 days on a non-o to look after my kids.

I've never had a Tourist VISA, and only 1 waiver on entry when I stayed 10 days.

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by BritManToo

[Briggsy]

37 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

American citizens who wish to remain in Thailand for longer than 90 days during any six-month period will be required to obtain a valid Thai visa from a Thai Embassy or Consulate that is authorized to issue visas.

Nothing to do with how often you can visit Thailand. This is to do with any stay over 90 days in duration.

 

I ask again where are these "clear laws set out on tourist visas" as you claim.

 

I will give you a hint : They don't exist and your claim is totally incorrect.

[kannot]

6 hours ago, madmen said:

"but I have over 200,000 baht with me and more in Bitcoin"

 

dont blame thailand !

dont  laugh but   at  immigration today (Hua  Hin) the guy  said they thought I had  too  much money in my account as it  went up to 2.5  million not the 400k they were  looking for for my extension of stay???

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Waiver on entry ........ 30 days + 30 extension 2x a year, you ain't welcome longer.

Only at land border crossings. By air there is not limit of visa exempt entries.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Tayaout said:

I will repeat for like 3 times now. They asked only 1 question and it was to sign the expulsion form. I think that anything under $10000 is not that much for money (and don't need to be declared) for someone planning to travel for 2 months. 

You were probably denied under section 12 (2), which has nothing to do with how much money you have on you. It is because you don’t have the “appropriate” means of living in the country such as a proven income, job in Thailand or cash in the bank.

 

If so it’s a legal way for them to deny entry to someone they consider has spent too long in the country as a tourist.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, watcharacters said:

Would you ever enter a country that's taken obvious steps to disallow your entry?

Possibly - when you know that it is a farang-hating clique within immigration at fault, and they only control certain entry-points, and they are acting in direct-violation of the law, and the law does not prohibit what you are doing, so you can use other entry-points to avoid the criminals. 

 

Even more the case if you are in love with a Thai lady, have a child on the way with her, and also love the culture of Thailand.

 

OP - no problem entering at the bridge in Vientiane to Nong Khai.  You can take a bus from there (VIP overnight is best), or catch a domestic flight (no immigration involved) out of the Udon Thanni, which is a short van-ride from the Nong Khai bus-station.

 

Your Tourist Visa should still be OK for use.

Edited March 8, 2019 by JackThompson

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Your Tourist Visa should still be OK for use.

If they ask you why you're entering ........ tell them you're on holiday.

[NCC1701A]

the Op has a pregnant girlfriend and is getting married and he is worried around being in detention? 

[JackThompson]

26 minutes ago, jspill said:

There were also many reports of the IOs saying ok we'll allow entry this time but get married to your Thai GF, to rectify the situation. Often they phoned the Thai GF too. That didn't happen in this case, no questions or discussion at all. 

This clique within Immigration don't care if the Thai lady loses support for herself and her child.  They seem to hate their own citizenry as much as farangs, given their actions harm them even worse than we who can take our foreign-incomes anywhere with us.  They way they treated my wife at immigration confirmed this - they literally hate them for giving us a way to stay here.

[JackThompson]

Quote

But he seems to be living in Thailand on tourist visa, which is the real reason he got refused.

He can stay 60 days per-entry, optionally extended to 90-tops.  He can leave and repeat this.  This is not illegal.  Because the law is not followed at Bangkok airports (and a few other entry-points), one must avoid these - because they don't respect the law there, and they are reported (many times) to make up a blantant-lie to refuse-entry to lawful entrants.

 

4 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Well it's easy. Look up the difference between the word tourist and the word resident. Examine your life honestly in conjunction with those two terms and then you will see if you have a risk of being g thrown out or not

Where are those defined in the Immigration-Act, with regard to justifying a denied-entry?  Fact is, it is not, so is irrelevant as criteria in this context.  "Tourist," in terms of Thai immigration-law, is defined by what you cannot do while in Thailand - working a job, engaged in criminal activity, etc.  No "here before on another entry" limits are specified.

 

Quote

The fact that sometimes you might get away with it doesn't matter one bit.  If you got caught for speeding would you argue that you always speed, but got away with it on other occasions?

No one is "getting away" with anything, other than Criminal-IOs, who lied about why they denied him entry, and should be arrested, tried, fined (including paying restitution to the OP) and imprisoned - to deter this from ever happening again.

 

To use your analogy, this would be getting ticketed for 60 Kph in a 30 Kph zone, when one was only driving 25 Kph.  The cop, in that case, would be the criminal - not the driver.

[overherebc]

17 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

the Op has a pregnant girlfriend and is getting married and he is worried around being in detention? 

Are you comparing a few hours in the airport against a life sentence? ????????

[ThomasThBKK]

30 minutes ago, kannot said:

dont  laugh but   at  immigration today (Hua  Hin) the guy  said they thought I had  too  much money in my account as it  went up to 2.5  million not the 400k they were  looking for for my extension of stay???

They always pull that shit because you are on a marriage visa and its paperwork for them. They want you to use the retirement visa instead because they are lazy <deleted>.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

What's so confusing about the problem you created living in Thailand and having a tourist visa?  You had plenty of warning from the moment that you got your tourist visa.

The OP was not violating the law with regard to the legal restrictions on the use of a Tourist Visa to enter for 60-days (extendable at immigration's discretion for another 30) - hence why he should not think he was doing anything wrong for one second.

 

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

"...it appears the immigration officials can now decide to deny entry whenever they feel like it..."

That's true, it's an IO's privilege and, regardless of whether 3rd parties see it as fair or not, the IO has the authority to do so.

IOs do not have the legal-right to violate Thai law, which is why the put the lying-stamp in the OP's passport.  Those doing this are engaging in criminal behavior.  The Immigration Act states explicit reasons that are permitted to deny-entry.  The OP had enough money (in cash to show, no less) to live here for months - so the IO who denied his entry are the ones in direct-violation of the law - not the OP.

 

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

It's not that "too much farang stay in Thailand", it's that too many foreigners deliberately abuse the tourist visa system.

"Abuse" doesn't exist as a legal term.  It is just a subjective / made-up rhetorical device used by lawbreakers and those who make excuses for their unlawful behavior.

 

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

Surely you mean, "however if I knew that they would catch on to my deliberately abusing the immigration system they would not let me back..."

No, he means he could encounter more criminals in uniforms - as clearly happened this time.

 

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

"...making up bogus reasons to reject a visitor".

Well, they're certainly giving reasons to reject bogus tourists, as is their prerogative!

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

He didn't!  He had been living here on the basis of being a tourist when he was not a tourist, that does not meet the requirements.

What evidence did they use to show he wasn't a tourist?  They didn't even ask a question.

Edited March 8, 2019 by JackThompson

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, ThomasThBKK said:

They always pull that shit because you are on a marriage visa and its paperwork for them. They want you to use the retirement visa instead because they are lazy <deleted>.

I think they wanted him to pay an agent.

If he's got 2.5M he can clearly afford one, give the tight barsteward the run-around until he pays up is their mentality.

[BritTim]

55 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Agreed, tourist VISA but not a tourist, doesn't matter how much money you carry, you need to have the right VISA. That's no excuse for writing 'insufficient funds' on his passport though, they should have written 'wrong VISA'.

They cannot do that. "Wrong visa" is not one of the listed reasons in Section 12 of the Immigration Act for denying entry. Nor will you find anything there about the immigration official being empowered to decide if a visa has been improperly issued to someone who should not qualify.

[BritManToo]

Just now, BritTim said:

They cannot do that. "Wrong visa" is not one of the listed reasons in Section 12 of the Immigration Act for denying entry. Nor will you find anything there about the immigration official being empowered to decide if a visa has been improperly issued to someone who should not qualify.

up to you, whenever I enter a foreign country, I repeat the reason I gave on the VISA/application.

I'm here to visit my son, end of, 'cos that's what I wrote on the Non-o application, and the entry form.

[BritTim]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

up to you, whenever I enter a foreign country, I repeat the reason I gave on the VISA/application.

I'm here to visit my son, end of, 'cos that's what I wrote on the Non-o application, and the entry form.

I wonder if you are going to accept the immigration official's decision when they eventually decide you are visiting your son too often, and should get the correct visa for spending so much time in Thailand.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I wonder if you are going to accept the immigration official's decision when they eventually decide you are visiting your son too often, and should get the correct visa for spending so much time in Thailand.

There's no limit on the time you can visit your son with a non-o (beyond the 90 days).

And if they impose a limit, he can visit me in Cambodia.

Or I could try for a 1 year extension (40k/month income).

Edited March 8, 2019 by BritManToo

[atyclb]

out of curiosity at detention area is there place to buy food?

[Tayaout]

11 minutes ago, atyclb said:

out of curiosity at detention area is there place to buy food?

Nope but they include a meal and charge 840 baht per day. 

 

Now I just landed in Laos and seems to have been put me and the batch of expelled in some transit zone. They are questioning the other people's and will post when I know what this is all about. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Tayaout

[Briggsy]

4 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

Nope but they include a meal and charge 840 baht per day. 

Yes, a number of people in your situation have stated that they had to pay 800 Baht for accommodation!!

 

One person said they refused to pay 800 Baht to be locked in a stinking room when she had committed no crime and the Thai officer was angry and she was taken immediately airside to the gate to await her flight out.

 

Good luck in Laos. I think you might be able to go straight to Nong Khai tonight.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Briggsy

[JackThompson]

If any problem re-entering Laos, opt for Malaysia (KL or Penang) as your next stop.  The Malaysian authorities don't respect what Thailand is doing to visitors, and have even been reported to apologize to those returned there from Thai airports.  From there, easy to enter by-train through Pedang Besar, on to to Hat Yai, and fly onward domestic.

 

Hopefully they just cancel your exit stamp, and you can take a taxi to the bridge to Nong-Khai.

[BritTim]

28 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

There's no limit on the time you can visit your son with a non-o (beyond the 90 days).

I agree. Also, there is no limit on the time you can visit with a tourist visa (beyond the 60 days, or 90 days if extended).

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

The worst of it is that he was denied entry for a bogus reason. At Don Muang, at least, it appears the immigration officials can now decide to deny entry whenever they feel like it, and just write Section 12 (2) on a form (with the real reason for the denied entry never needing to be disclosed).

 

I think you'll find most countries allow their IO's to deny entry should they suspect the person wishing to enter. 

If they suspect you aren't a tourist, possibly therefore working illegally to finance your stays, not bothering to get the correct class of visa, they can deny entry. That isn't unique to Thailand.