Expelled no questions asked at Don Muang

[Briggsy]

5 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

That's the problem with Thailand. They cant make up their mind and set the rules and follow it accordingly. That's what happens to a country that is yet to learn democracy, lacks intellectualism,  and love to live under police rules that can change at the whim of the enforcer. 

Indeed, and in addition, had the OP entered through a land border, flown to a different airport or even the same airport but a different Immigration Officer, he would have entered without a hitch. Indeed, probably tomorrow he will enter via a land border without any issues.

 

The rules are unclear and the contradictory behaviour of different ministries (MFA vs Immigration) and different locations under the same department suggests a completely arbitrary set of decisions.

[Kenchamp]

14 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Indeed, and in addition, had the OP entered through a land border, flown to a different airport or even the same airport but a different Immigration Officer, he would have entered without a hitch. Indeed, probably tomorrow he will enter via a land border without any issues.

 

The rules are unclear and the contradictory behaviour of different ministries (MFA vs Immigration) and different locations under the same department suggests a completely arbitrary set of decisions.

And what had the guy done wrong? He clearly was no threat, had money to support himself, had reason to be here and is not from a country that would suggest he might be here to milk anything from the system.

 

I don't think they want masses of farangs here, and then you mix that with incompetent IMO's who may also have a dislike for farangs, then this is what you get. 

[BritTim]

29 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

The rules are unclear and the contradictory behaviour of different ministries (MFA vs Immigration) and different locations under the same department suggests a completely arbitrary set of decisions.

The worst of it is that he was denied entry for a bogus reason. At Don Muang, at least, it appears the immigration officials can now decide to deny entry whenever they feel like it, and just write Section 12 (2) on a form (with the real reason for the denied entry never needing to be disclosed).

[Nyezhov]

2 hours ago, Tayaout said:

When I go to Europe they tell me it's 90 days in and 90 days out and the rules never change. I went to Vientiane to get an official visa because I expected that they may deny me a visa free entry. I did not expect to be denied by trying to get an official visa. 

Dude you aren't a tourist. If you beat the system by entering a land border bully for you, but you aren't a tourist

[Tayaout]

5 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Dude you aren't a tourist. If you beat the system by entering a land border bully for you, but you aren't a tourist

Im aware of this and was planning to deposit the money needed in my Bangkok bank account for wedding visa next week. However if I knew that for some reason they would not let me back (with a real visa this time) then I would simply wait at the beach in Malaysia and not bother going to Vientiane then getting deported back there. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Tayaout

[Briggsy]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

The worst of it is that he was denied entry for a bogus reason. At Don Muang, at least, it appears the immigration officials can now decide to deny entry whenever they feel like it, and just write Section 12 (2) on a form (with the real reason for the denied entry never needing to be disclosed).

Even though I totally agree with your sentiment and most of your post, I would classify section 12 (2) as a "catch-all" rather than a "bogus" reason for all non-means-tested permissions to stay i.e. SETV and visa exempt and also VOA.

 

However, there have been reports of METV's, Non-Imm O-A's and Retirement Extensions being questioned. All of these are means-tested. This is where you are definitely in "bogus" territory.

[dbrenn]

200k is a lot of cash to be carrying around. Most tourists use a combination of cash and cards.

 

Could such a large cash amount have made them suspicious that they were ill-gotten gains, or otherwise 'untouristlike' behaviour?

Edited March 8, 2019 by dbrenn

[Tayaout]

3 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

200k is a lot of cash to be carrying around. Most tourists use a combination of cash and cards.

 

Could such a large cash amount have made them suspicious that they were ill-gotten gains?

I will repeat for like 3 times now. They asked only 1 question and it was to sign the expulsion form. I think that anything under $10000 is not that much for money (and don't need to be declared) for someone planning to travel for 2 months. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Tayaout

[ballpoint]

I'm surprised they're "deporting" you back to Vientiane.  Who's paying for the flight, and how does Thai immigration know you'll be able to enter Laos without an onwards ticket?  Are you sure there isn't an arrest warrant out for you there?

[ballpoint]

2 hours ago, Briggsy said:

The rules are unclear and the contradictory behaviour of different ministries (MFA vs Immigration) and different locations under the same department suggests a completely arbitrary set of decisions.

No, the rules regarding how many times you may enter the country, and how long for, per year on a tourist visa are set out.  The fact that sometimes you might get away with it doesn't matter one bit.  If you got caught for speeding would you argue that you always speed, but got away with it on other occasions?

Edited March 8, 2019 by ballpoint

[Tayaout]

8 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

I'm surprised they're "deporting" you back to Vientiane.  Who's paying for the flight, and how does Thai immigration know you'll be able to enter Laos without an onwards ticket?  Are you sure there isn't an arrest warrant out for you there?

I have to pay with the money they did not bother asking me to show. I'm not alone so the odds we both have an arrest warrant is slim. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Tayaout

[yuiop]

5 hours ago, Tayaout said:

They ask nothing. I had 200,000 cash with me. 

200000 baht or equivalent in another currency?

If in baht, it's a small bag full of money!

Maybe it could have helped to show all that money to them, one way or another.

 

[Briggsy]

5 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

No, the rules regarding how many times you may enter the country, and how long for, per year on a tourist visa are set out. 

Are they? I would love to see them. Can you reference them for me? Thanks.

[richard_smith237]

It's become more and more apparent that return-repeat Visitors to Thailand are being scrutinized on a whim... that is to say that the IO's a Don Muang are making snap decisions and as already implied making up bogus reasons to reject a visitor. 

 

These 'snap decisions' seem on the spot, based on their mood at the time or whether they like the look of you or not...  some regular visitors slide through without issue while others are stopped and rejected for a 'bogus' reason.

 

One thing is clear - IF You are a repeat visitor and have successive Visa Runs and Tourist Visa's you are never guaranteed entry, other Visa Options become more attractive.

 

I'm wondering at which point those under 50 who are unable to get a retirement visa come to some arrangement and marry a 'friend' for the sake of Visa simplicity and go the Type O route. 

 

 

[dbrenn]

16 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

I will repeat for like 3 times now. They asked only 1 question and it was to sign the expulsion form. I think that anything under $10000 is not that much for money (and don't need to be declared) for someone planning to travel for 2 months. 

Regardless, they figured out that you aren't actually a tourist. It's a shame - Thailand used to be so accessible for extended stays with no questions asked. It was a semi-permanent home to all sorts of interesting people. I did Visa runs for 4 years back in the day, so easy to do.

 

Now they refuse entry to people who arrive 'frequently' on tourist visas, also with no questions asked.

[Vacuum]

6 hours ago, Tayaout said:

They denied me for too little fund but I have over 200,000 baht with me and more in Bitcoin.

They require to see cash money, not money in a bank.

[Tayaout]

2 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

They require to see cash money, not money in a bank.

They asked nothing. 

[ThomasThBKK]

Just now, Vacuum said:

They require to see cash money, not money in a bank.

 

Can't you read, he had 200k in CASH...also they didnt even ask him for it...

 

What a shame - if they continue like this thailand will be uninteresting as most interesting people will be fed up with this bs and go somewhere else.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

6 hours ago, Tayaout said:

They denied me for too little fund but I have over 200,000 baht with me and more in Bitcoin.

They require to see cash money, not money in a bank.

 

He had over 200,000 baht in cash with him....   Yet the reason for refusal was insufficient funds. 

 

The IO's seem extremely overzealous in this case. I can't see what the Op did wrong, he had a Visa a return flight and cash... He's met all the requirements. 

 

I can only suspect that the IO has made a personal decision that the Op has spent too much time in country and decided to take the law into his own hands and reject him - somewhat of a power trip. 

 

I think the Op was well within his rights to request a senior officer and have the reasons fully explained to him. 

 

 

[Vacuum]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

He had over 200,000 baht in cash with him....

Are you sure (could be on a credit/debit card or in the bank), he also mentioned Bitcoins, hence my thoughts that he didn't have the money in cash. I could be wrong though.

[Just Weird]

5 hours ago, Tayaout said:

I can understand but immigration rules are pretty confusing and no warning given. 

What's so confusing about the problem you created living in Thailand and having a tourist visa?  You had plenty of warning from the moment that you got your tourist visa.

[Just Weird]

3 hours ago, Tayaout said:

By the way there is 3 other farang in a similar situation than me and like 4 Chinese. For all farang the issues seems to be too much visa run. The Air Asia officer said that's a new thing. Before it was no common to see farang expelled like this. He said the IO got pressured after a meeting with their superior because too much farang stay in Thailand. 

It's not that "too much farang stay in Thailand", it's that too many foreigners deliberately abuse the tourist visa system.

[Vacuum]

10 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

also they didnt even ask him for it...

Well, he said : 

Quote

They denied me for too little fund

Must have been a question before denial.

[ballpoint]

17 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

Are they? I would love to see them. Can you reference them for me? Thanks.

The rules state that you may only stay on a tourist visa for 90 days in any 6 month period.  There has been some leniency on this in the past, but they have never been officially rescinded.  I would also suggest that anyone wanting to spend more than 3 months here out of every 6 is not a tourist and should look for an alternative visa option.  If I wanted to go and stay anywhere for an extended period, I would certainly read up on the visa requirements for that country before attempting to just take the easiest route.

 

The following comes from the US Embassy in Bangkok.  My italics:

 

If an individual wishes to remain in Thailand for more than 30 days, he/she may wish to obtain a tourist visa at the Royal Thai Embassy or Consulate in the United States, prior to arriving in Thailand. The tourist visa must generally be used within 90 days from the date of issue and allows an initial stay of 60 days. After arrival in Thailand, a tourist visa may be extended at the discretion of an immigration officer once for an additional 30 days with the total period of stay no longer than 90 days. 

 

American citizens who wish to remain in Thailand for longer than 90 days during any six-month period will be required to obtain a valid Thai visa from a Thai Embassy or Consulate that is authorized to issue visas. The U.S. Embassy advises all American citizens who wish to obtain a Thai visa to contact the Thai Immigration Bureau for exact visa requirements and regulations. Persons who do not comply with visa regulations risk being denied entry to Thailand at the border.

[Just Weird]

2 hours ago, Kenchamp said:

And what had the guy done wrong? He clearly was no threat, had money to support himself, had reason to be here and is not from a country that would suggest he might be here to milk anything from the system.

"And what had the guy done wrong?"

He was trying to live here on a tourist/exempt visas.

 

"...had reason to be here..."

What justifiable reason was that?

[overherebc]

4 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

The rules state that you may only stay on a tourist visa for 90 days in any 6 month period.  There has been some leniency on this in the past, but they have never been officially rescinded.  I would also suggest that anyone wanting to spend more than 3 months here out of every 6 is not a tourist and should look for an alternative visa option.  If I wanted to go and stay anywhere for an extended period, I would certainly read up on the visa requirements for that country before attempting to just take the easiest route.

 

The following comes from the US Embassy in Bangkok.  My italics:

 

If an individual wishes to remain in Thailand for more than 30 days, he/she may wish to obtain a tourist visa at the Royal Thai Embassy or Consulate in the United States, prior to arriving in Thailand. The tourist visa must generally be used within 90 days from the date of issue and allows an initial stay of 60 days. After arrival in Thailand, a tourist visa may be extended at the discretion of an immigration officer once for an additional 30 days with the total period of stay no longer than 90 days. 

 

American citizens who wish to remain in Thailand for longer than 90 days during any six-month period will be required to obtain a valid Thai visa from a Thai Embassy or Consulate that is authorized to issue visas. The U.S. Embassy advises all American citizens who wish to obtain a Thai visa to contact the Thai Immigration Bureau for exact visa requirements and regulations. Persons who do not comply with visa regulations risk being denied entry to Thailand at the border.

Wrong.

[Timbob]

3 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

The rules state that you may only stay on a tourist visa for 90 days in any 6 month period. 

Where are the rules? You have misinterpreted what the US Embassy has said. That simply states you need a different visa if you wish to stay longer. 

 

I have lived in Thailand on tourist visas since 2015. I'm probably on my last one!

 

Good luck to the OP. 

[Just Weird]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

The worst of it is that he was denied entry for a bogus reason. At Don Muang, at least, it appears the immigration officials can now decide to deny entry whenever they feel like it, and just write Section 12 (2) on a form (with the real reason for the denied entry never needing to be disclosed).

"...it appears the immigration officials can now decide to deny entry whenever they feel like it..."

That's true, it's an IO's privilege and, regardless of whether 3rd parties see it as fair or not, the IO has the authority to do so.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Just Weird

[Just Weird]

59 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

Im aware of this and was planning to deposit the money needed in my Bangkok bank account for wedding visa next week. However if I knew that for some reason they would not let me back (with a real visa this time) then I would simply wait at the beach in Malaysia and not bother going to Vientiane then getting deported back there. 

"However if I knew that for some reason they would not let me back..."

Surely you mean, "however if I knew that they would catch on to my deliberately abusing the immigration system they would not let me back..."

[Just Weird]

41 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

It's become more and more apparent that return-repeat Visitors to Thailand are being scrutinized on a whim... that is to say that the IO's a Don Muang are making snap decisions and as already implied making up bogus reasons to reject a visitor. 

"...making up bogus reasons to reject a visitor".

Well, they're certainly giving reasons to reject bogus tourists, as is their prerogative!